I bet you're having a real problem with the Sherlock Holmes ouevre. Now we have a Watson who is female and Holmes who is gay/a drug addict/a possible sociopath.
Sherlock is gay ? What have you been watching ? Certainly NOT Elementary !
I bet you're having a real problem with the Sherlock Holmes ouevre. Now we have a Watson who is female and Holmes who is gay/a drug addict/a possible sociopath.
Sherlock is gay ? What have you been watching ? Certainly NOT Elementary !
See "The Private Life of Sherlock Homes" (great movie). The current "Sherlock" series and the Robert Downey, Jr. movies have a whole "is he gay or not" subtext. It's related to Holmes's general dislike for women, his attitude towards marriage, and his relationship with Watson.
I bet you're having a real problem with the Sherlock Holmes ouevre. Now we have a Watson who is female and Holmes who is gay/a drug addict/a possible sociopath.
Sherlock is gay ? What have you been watching ? Certainly NOT Elementary !
See "The Private Life of Sherlock Homes" (great movie). The current "Sherlock" series and the Robert Downey, Jr. movies have a whole "is he gay or not" subtext. It's related to Holmes's general dislike for women, his attitude towards marriage, and his relationship with Watson.
Isn't that a tad over - interpreted?
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,749Chief of Staff
I bet you're having a real problem with the Sherlock Holmes ouevre. Now we have a Watson who is female and Holmes who is gay/a drug addict/a possible sociopath.
Sherlock is gay ? What have you been watching ? Certainly NOT Elementary !
See "The Private Life of Sherlock Homes" (great movie). The current "Sherlock" series and the Robert Downey, Jr. movies have a whole "is he gay or not" subtext. It's related to Holmes's general dislike for women, his attitude towards marriage, and his relationship with Watson.
Sphericals !!
I think you have missed the WHOLE point of Sherlock Holmes
Check out Irene Adler and what she means to Holmes....
Sherlock is gay ? What have you been watching ? Certainly NOT Elementary !
See "The Private Life of Sherlock Homes" (great movie). The current "Sherlock" series and the Robert Downey, Jr. movies have a whole "is he gay or not" subtext. It's related to Holmes's general dislike for women, his attitude towards marriage, and his relationship with Watson.
Sphericals !!
I think you have missed the WHOLE point of Sherlock Holmes
Check out Irene Adler and what she means to Holmes....
And in Elementary Watson IS a woman !
He respected Adler for her intellect, even though she was a woman.
I thought the idea that Holmes might be gay was pretty well known. Here the subject is beaten to death:
As for the whole 'M being the mother figure', this theme has been around as long as Dench has played M. For it to be fully 'admitted', 'acknowledged' etc is no big deal for me. It's just part of the characters relationship and the plot, so what's the big deal? M acts as a mother figure to orphan James.... AND? Big deal.
That's not the way the character was written by Fleming. Hell, M isn't even supposed to be a woman! At least if the producers are going down that route in the name of political correctness, then at least make her every bit Bond's boss as Bernard Lee was, as opposed to an overbearing mother.
Ok, hold on a minute and you might wanna sit down.
Ian Fleming is dead.
In fact, he's been pushing up daisys for quite some time now. I know this is gonna be a right kick in the balls, so I'm sorry, but after his death, quite a few people have been writing bond books and films, and they've brought the character and the whole franchise into the 21st century.
I suppose you'll be tearful with the thought of no more "man talk (slap)" or "fetch my shoes" scenes?
Welcome to 2012.
I've arrived here by following a link provided by another member and I'm truly astounded by such ignorance and lack of respect for Ian Fleming on here. Thank you for that response. You've obviously never read a page of Fleming in your life; that's obvious. You make Ian Fleming sound like a terrible misogynist when in reality he often treated his female characters with tact, respect and dignity. Don't let the writing of Richard Maibaum obscure the facts.
Getting back to the original argument, I agree with our friend minigeff,
the characters have to evolve to keep pace with the current time
yes of course in Flemings day a woman head of any Government dept
would be laughable (hence the phrase the old boy network ) boy being the operative word
if Bond hadn't have kept up we would still have all ex retired military/public school types running things
thank god we have a Felix leiter being played by black actors ,otherwise the Americans would have
law enforcement agencies run on the line of "They call me Mr Tibbs " keep up for gods sake
That's not the way the character was written by Fleming. Hell, M isn't even supposed to be a woman! At least if the producers are going down that route in the name of political correctness, then at least make her every bit Bond's boss as Bernard Lee was, as opposed to an overbearing mother.
Ok, hold on a minute and you might wanna sit down.
Ian Fleming is dead.
In fact, he's been pushing up daisys for quite some time now. I know this is gonna be a right kick in the balls, so I'm sorry, but after his death, quite a few people have been writing bond books and films, and they've brought the character and the whole franchise into the 21st century.
I suppose you'll be tearful with the thought of no more "man talk (slap)" or "fetch my shoes" scenes?
Welcome to 2012.
I've arrived here by following a link provided by another member and I'm truly astounded by such ignorance and lack of respect for Ian Fleming on here. Thank you for that response. You've obviously never read a page of Fleming in your life; that's obvious. You make Ian Fleming sound like a terrible misogynist when in reality he often treated his female characters with tact, respect and dignity. Don't let the writing of Richard Maibaum obscure the facts.
I disagree. Ive read Fleming many times over and he oretty much makes Bond a misogynist as well a a romantic despite that Fleming was also a hopeless romantic and idolised some women in real life.
From CasinoRoyale:
"... And then there was this pest of a girl. He sighed. Women were for recreation. On a job, they got in the way and fogged things up with sex and hurt feelings and all the emotional baggage they carried around with them. One had to look out for them and take care of them".
The books are littered with Bond's thoughts on women and marriage, all in the same vein.
And don't even get started on race, have you read Live & Let Die? Or sexuality, Goldfinger and Thunderball? Women drivers, also in Thunderball?
Without labouring the point, they were written at a time when these views were widely held and, thank God, times have changed. It wouldn't be relevant any more to keep these aspects in the films. Unless you set every film in the 50s and make it a period drama like Mad Men. I for one would hate that, I want to see a modern, relevant Bond.
Agreed. -{ Even the 60's film Bond was different from the 50's Bond of the books. And the 90's Bond had changed from the 70's. Bond has to.be current
to the times,but the core of the character always remains.
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
Ok, hold on a minute and you might wanna sit down.
Ian Fleming is dead.
In fact, he's been pushing up daisys for quite some time now. I know this is gonna be a right kick in the balls, so I'm sorry, but after his death, quite a few people have been writing bond books and films, and they've brought the character and the whole franchise into the 21st century.
I suppose you'll be tearful with the thought of no more "man talk (slap)" or "fetch my shoes" scenes?
Welcome to 2012.
I've arrived here by following a link provided by another member and I'm truly astounded by such ignorance and lack of respect for Ian Fleming on here. Thank you for that response. You've obviously never read a page of Fleming in your life; that's obvious. You make Ian Fleming sound like a terrible misogynist when in reality he often treated his female characters with tact, respect and dignity. Don't let the writing of Richard Maibaum obscure the facts.
I disagree. Ive read Fleming many times over and he oretty much makes Bond a misogynist as well a a romantic despite that Fleming was also a hopeless romantic and idolised some women in real life.
From CasinoRoyale:
"... And then there was this pest of a girl. He sighed. Women were for recreation. On a job, they got in the way and fogged things up with sex and hurt feelings and all the emotional baggage they carried around with them. One had to look out for them and take care of them".
The books are littered with Bond's thoughts on women and marriage, all in the same vein.
And don't even get started on race, have you read Live & Let Die? Or sexuality, Goldfinger and Thunderball? Women drivers, also in Thunderball?
Without labouring the point, they were written at a time when these views were widely held and, thank God, times have changed. It wouldn't be relevant any more to keep these aspects in the films. Unless you set every film in the 50s and make it a period drama like Mad Men. I for one would hate that, I want to see a modern, relevant Bond.
Ok, hold on a minute and you might wanna sit down.
Ian Fleming is dead.
In fact, he's been pushing up daisys for quite some time now. I know this is gonna be a right kick in the balls, so I'm sorry, but after his death, quite a few people have been writing bond books and films, and they've brought the character and the whole franchise into the 21st century.
I suppose you'll be tearful with the thought of no more "man talk (slap)" or "fetch my shoes" scenes?
Welcome to 2012.
I've arrived here by following a link provided by another member and I'm truly astounded by such ignorance and lack of respect for Ian Fleming on here. Thank you for that response. You've obviously never read a page of Fleming in your life; that's obvious. You make Ian Fleming sound like a terrible misogynist when in reality he often treated his female characters with tact, respect and dignity. Don't let the writing of Richard Maibaum obscure the facts.
I disagree. Ive read Fleming many times over and he oretty much makes Bond a misogynist as well a a romantic despite that Fleming was also a hopeless romantic and idolised some women in real life.
From CasinoRoyale:
"... And then there was this pest of a girl. He sighed. Women were for recreation. On a job, they got in the way and fogged things up with sex and hurt feelings and all the emotional baggage they carried around with them. One had to look out for them and take care of them".
The books are littered with Bond's thoughts on women and marriage, all in the same vein.
And don't even get started on race, have you read Live & Let Die? Or sexuality, Goldfinger and Thunderball? Women drivers, also in Thunderball?
Without labouring the point, they were written at a time when these views were widely held and, thank God, times have changed. It wouldn't be relevant any more to keep these aspects in the films. Unless you set every film in the 50s and make it a period drama like Mad Men. I for one would hate that, I want to see a modern, relevant Bond.
You have a fair point. Fleming's Bond is very much a misogynist. But what, exactly, is wrong with that, aside from being socially unacceptable these days? You're quite right in that the literary Bond had his misogynistic and racist thoughts exposed in the novels, but unless I'm very much mistaken, he rarely expresses them, which means that in the translation to cinema, he would keep his misogynistic and racist views to himself.
I want to see the films modernised - in that the producers create new stories, filmed in an environment surrounded by new technology. But I also think that the character - and all the main supporting characters who were created by Fleming - should not be materially different from that which was depicted in the novels, in appearance, behaviour and mannerisms.
That's not the way the character was written by Fleming. Hell, M isn't even supposed to be a woman! At least if the producers are going down that route in the name of political correctness, then at least make her every bit Bond's boss as Bernard Lee was, as opposed to an overbearing mother.
Ok, hold on a minute and you might wanna sit down.
Ian Fleming is dead.
In fact, he's been pushing up daisys for quite some time now. I know this is gonna be a right kick in the balls, so I'm sorry, but after his death, quite a few people have been writing bond books and films, and they've brought the character and the whole franchise into the 21st century.
I suppose you'll be tearful with the thought of no more "man talk (slap)" or "fetch my shoes" scenes?
Welcome to 2012.
I've arrived here by following a link provided by another member and I'm truly astounded by such ignorance and lack of respect for Ian Fleming on here. Thank you for that response. You've obviously never read a page of Fleming in your life; that's obvious. You make Ian Fleming sound like a terrible misogynist when in reality he often treated his female characters with tact, respect and dignity. Don't let the writing of Richard Maibaum obscure the facts.
i actually leaked a bit of piss out laughing at this. )
i missed all this controversy going on, shame really. I think i'm equally astounded that this point of 'current bond should be more like fleming bond' keeps getting brought up like some proverbial furball of bond discussion. it's as bad as the racist baiting 'will there ever be a black bond?' conversations.
true, i've not read a single fleming book. ever. wanna know why?
a) no time
b) i live in bond film universe, the books would just confuse me
c) no colouring in section
d) i found the books to be too detailed. I don't wanna read 3 pages of what cloth bond's kecks were cut from.
it's not down to 'disrespecting' anyone, it's just my choice. i'm not saying fleming is a knob, or that his work was crap, i mean c'mon, i'm a BOND fan, how would that compute?
as many people, myself included, have pointed out, the arse slapping days of bond are gone. get with the program, move with the times. the new films and latest stories (imo anyway) are great, they work and make brilliant films. you can't get away with all that 60's mindset stuff.
anyway, gotta go, the wife needs her arse tanning and i've got to get Winston McChombington to bring the car round, the dishwasher broke down this morning so i've got to take her to the shrink before playing bridge at the local gentleman's club - the gollywog arms.
i actually leaked a bit of piss out laughing at this. )
i missed all this controversy going on, shame really. I think i'm equally astounded that this point of 'current bond should be more like fleming bond' keeps getting brought up like some proverbial furball of bond discussion. it's as bad as the racist baiting 'will there ever be a black bond?' conversations.
true, i've not read a single fleming book. ever. wanna know why?
a) no time
b) i live in bond film universe, the books would just confuse me
c) no colouring in section
d) i found the books to be too detailed. I don't wanna read 3 pages of what cloth bond's kecks were cut from.
it's not down to 'disrespecting' anyone, it's just my choice. i'm not saying fleming is a knob, or that his work was crap, i mean c'mon, i'm a BOND fan, how would that compute?
as many people, myself included, have pointed out, the arse slapping days of bond are gone. get with the program, move with the times. the new films and latest stories (imo anyway) are great, they work and make brilliant films. you can't get away with all that 60's mindset stuff.
anyway, gotta go, the wife needs her arse tanning and i've got to get Winston McChombington to bring the car round, the dishwasher broke down this morning so i've got to take her to the shrink before playing bridge at the local gentleman's club - the gollywog arms.
I've arrived here by following a link provided by another member and I'm truly astounded by such ignorance and lack of respect for Ian Fleming on here. Thank you for that response. You've obviously never read a page of Fleming in your life; that's obvious. You make Ian Fleming sound like a terrible misogynist when in reality he often treated his female characters with tact, respect and dignity. Don't let the writing of Richard Maibaum obscure the facts.
I disagree. Ive read Fleming many times over and he oretty much makes Bond a misogynist as well a a romantic despite that Fleming was also a hopeless romantic and idolised some women in real life.
From CasinoRoyale:
"... And then there was this pest of a girl. He sighed. Women were for recreation. On a job, they got in the way and fogged things up with sex and hurt feelings and all the emotional baggage they carried around with them. One had to look out for them and take care of them".
The books are littered with Bond's thoughts on women and marriage, all in the same vein.
And don't even get started on race, have you read Live & Let Die? Or sexuality, Goldfinger and Thunderball? Women drivers, also in Thunderball?
Without labouring the point, they were written at a time when these views were widely held and, thank God, times have changed. It wouldn't be relevant any more to keep these aspects in the films. Unless you set every film in the 50s and make it a period drama like Mad Men. I for one would hate that, I want to see a modern, relevant Bond.
You have a fair point. Fleming's Bond is very much a misogynist. But what, exactly, is wrong with that, aside from being socially unacceptable these days? You're quite right in that the literary Bond had his misogynistic and racist thoughts exposed in the novels, but unless I'm very much mistaken, he rarely expresses them, which means that in the translation to cinema, he would keep his misogynistic and racist views to himself.
I want to see the films modernised - in that the producers create new stories, filmed in an environment surrounded by new technology. But I also think that the character - and all the main supporting characters who were created by Fleming - should not be materially different from that which was depicted in the novels, in appearance, behaviour and mannerisms.
In this day and age, being a misogynist and a racist is more than just "socially unacceptable", IMO. It would be downright stupid. Granted, back in the days of Bond's origin there was still a lot of misinformation and misguided viewpoints stemming from a number of factors, including more limited interaction among various races and cultures, governments that actually promoted and supported discrimination and segregation, the widespread notion that women couldn't handle certain jobs "reserved" for men, etc. But if the Bond films are going to take place in the present day, wouldn't Bond have to be a bit of a moron to still cling to those outdated and widely discredited viewpoints? I'm not saying there aren't individuals who still harbor those views even today, but those people tend to be morons. Bond is many things, but he's not stupid.
Ok, hold on a minute and you might wanna sit down.
Ian Fleming is dead.
In fact, he's been pushing up daisys for quite some time now. I know this is gonna be a right kick in the balls, so I'm sorry, but after his death, quite a few people have been writing bond books and films, and they've brought the character and the whole franchise into the 21st century.
I suppose you'll be tearful with the thought of no more "man talk (slap)" or "fetch my shoes" scenes?
Welcome to 2012.
I've arrived here by following a link provided by another member and I'm truly astounded by such ignorance and lack of respect for Ian Fleming on here. Thank you for that response. You've obviously never read a page of Fleming in your life; that's obvious. You make Ian Fleming sound like a terrible misogynist when in reality he often treated his female characters with tact, respect and dignity. Don't let the writing of Richard Maibaum obscure the facts.
i actually leaked a bit of piss out laughing at this. )
i missed all this controversy going on, shame really. I think i'm equally astounded that this point of 'current bond should be more like fleming bond' keeps getting brought up like some proverbial furball of bond discussion. it's as bad as the racist baiting 'will there ever be a black bond?' conversations.
true, i've not read a single fleming book. ever. wanna know why?
a) no time
b) i live in bond film universe, the books would just confuse me
c) no colouring in section
d) i found the books to be too detailed. I don't wanna read 3 pages of what cloth bond's kecks were cut from.
it's not down to 'disrespecting' anyone, it's just my choice. i'm not saying fleming is a knob, or that his work was crap, i mean c'mon, i'm a BOND fan, how would that compute?
as many people, myself included, have pointed out, the arse slapping days of bond are gone. get with the program, move with the times. the new films and latest stories (imo anyway) are great, they work and make brilliant films. you can't get away with all that 60's mindset stuff.
anyway, gotta go, the wife needs her arse tanning and i've got to get Winston McChombington to bring the car round, the dishwasher broke down this morning so i've got to take her to the shrink before playing bridge at the local gentleman's club - the gollywog arms.
Yes, but you can still move with the times and be faithful to Fleming, such as the Dalton era did and the current Craig era is doing. I think you misunderstand my point here. Of course Bond had to change with the times and be modernised in order to survive, but I was pointing out that fidelity to Fleming is not the death knell to the Eon Bond film series many had long predeicted it would be. Look at Skyfall for heaven's sake! It took much from Fleming's latter Bond novels YOLT and TMWTGG. Don't try to better yourself or read about the character's origins in Fleming. You'll surely soon learn that Fleming's Bond is not as black and white as you paint him here. Dink and the "man talk" arse-slap did not come from Fleming (the same with the "fetch my shoes" line from Dr. No that you reference) - that character doesn't even appear in the Goldfinger novel. Chalk that doubt to the scriptwriters Richard Maibaum and Paul Dehn.
I find it astounding (though not very surprising) that you have not read a page of Fleming even out of curiosity. You might learn actually something. Heaven forbid that would happen.
I've arrived here by following a link provided by another member and I'm truly astounded by such ignorance and lack of respect for Ian Fleming on here. Thank you for that response. You've obviously never read a page of Fleming in your life; that's obvious. You make Ian Fleming sound like a terrible misogynist when in reality he often treated his female characters with tact, respect and dignity. Don't let the writing of Richard Maibaum obscure the facts.
i actually leaked a bit of piss out laughing at this. )
i missed all this controversy going on, shame really. I think i'm equally astounded that this point of 'current bond should be more like fleming bond' keeps getting brought up like some proverbial furball of bond discussion. it's as bad as the racist baiting 'will there ever be a black bond?' conversations.
true, i've not read a single fleming book. ever. wanna know why?
a) no time
b) i live in bond film universe, the books would just confuse me
c) no colouring in section
d) i found the books to be too detailed. I don't wanna read 3 pages of what cloth bond's kecks were cut from.
it's not down to 'disrespecting' anyone, it's just my choice. i'm not saying fleming is a knob, or that his work was crap, i mean c'mon, i'm a BOND fan, how would that compute?
as many people, myself included, have pointed out, the arse slapping days of bond are gone. get with the program, move with the times. the new films and latest stories (imo anyway) are great, they work and make brilliant films. you can't get away with all that 60's mindset stuff.
anyway, gotta go, the wife needs her arse tanning and i've got to get Winston McChombington to bring the car round, the dishwasher broke down this morning so i've got to take her to the shrink before playing bridge at the local gentleman's club - the gollywog arms.
Yes, but you can still move with the times and be faithful to Fleming, such as the Dalton era did and the current Craig era is doing. I think you misunderstand my point here. Of course Bond had to change with the times and be modernised in order to survive, but I was pointing out that fidelity to Fleming is not the death knell to the Eon Bond film series many had long predeicted it would be. Look at Skyfall for heaven's sake! It took much from Fleming's latter Bond novels YOLT and TMWTGG. Don't try to better yourself or read about the character's origins in Fleming. You'll surely soon learn that Fleming's Bond is not as black and white as you paint him here. Dink and the "man talk" arse-slap did not come from Fleming (the same with the "fetch my shoes" line from Dr. No that you reference) - that character doesn't even appear in the Goldfinger novel. Chalk that doubt to the scriptwriters Richard Maibaum and Paul Dehn.
I find it astounding (though not very surprising) that you have not tread a page of Fleming even out of curiosity. You might learn actually something. Heaven forbid that would happen.
Do any of the original Fleming books come with a set of crayons or at least have some piccys inside? All them big words gimme a headache.
Your reply is predictably flippant. I guess that this is because you know when you are beaten by a superior argument. Then it seems you resort to humour instead. I have learned this and won't make the mistake of engaging you in conversation again.
You know, I'm sure you didnt mean it, but that last reply makes you sound like a Bond villain.
Seriously though, we all realise that EON needs to remain true to the Bond character, but even in the novels his character changes and develops. The Bond of Casino Royale is not the same Bond of YOLT.
So doesn't it stand to reason his character should progress and develop in the films too?
Comments
Sherlock is gay ? What have you been watching ? Certainly NOT Elementary !
That would be very surprising for me and I have to rethink Petes entire behaviour then over again
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Apparently when it comes to 'hide the brockwurst' you taught everything he knows
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
Now the red light on Sir Miles computer ( when the report button has been hit....) is going overload - again!
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
See "The Private Life of Sherlock Homes" (great movie). The current "Sherlock" series and the Robert Downey, Jr. movies have a whole "is he gay or not" subtext. It's related to Holmes's general dislike for women, his attitude towards marriage, and his relationship with Watson.
Isn't that a tad over - interpreted?
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Sphericals !!
I think you have missed the WHOLE point of Sherlock Holmes
Check out Irene Adler and what she means to Holmes....
And in Elementary Watson IS a woman !
He respected Adler for her intellect, even though she was a woman.
I thought the idea that Holmes might be gay was pretty well known. Here the subject is beaten to death:
http://www.nekosmuse.com/sherlockholmes/subtext.htm
And then there's this:
http://www.aceshowbiz.com/news/view/00029874.html
Not to mention this:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1296997/Sherlock-Holmes-modern-mystery-Could-Watson-gay.html
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
Lots of people have said that to me about you for years :v
Hey if there was a Fischer Price forum I'd be right there.
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
I've arrived here by following a link provided by another member and I'm truly astounded by such ignorance and lack of respect for Ian Fleming on here. Thank you for that response. You've obviously never read a page of Fleming in your life; that's obvious. You make Ian Fleming sound like a terrible misogynist when in reality he often treated his female characters with tact, respect and dignity. Don't let the writing of Richard Maibaum obscure the facts.
the characters have to evolve to keep pace with the current time
yes of course in Flemings day a woman head of any Government dept
would be laughable (hence the phrase the old boy network ) boy being the operative word
if Bond hadn't have kept up we would still have all ex retired military/public school types running things
thank god we have a Felix leiter being played by black actors ,otherwise the Americans would have
law enforcement agencies run on the line of "They call me Mr Tibbs " keep up for gods sake
I disagree. Ive read Fleming many times over and he oretty much makes Bond a misogynist as well a a romantic despite that Fleming was also a hopeless romantic and idolised some women in real life.
From Casino Royale:
"... And then there was this pest of a girl. He sighed. Women were for recreation. On a job, they got in the way and fogged things up with sex and hurt feelings and all the emotional baggage they carried around with them. One had to look out for them and take care of them".
The books are littered with Bond's thoughts on women and marriage, all in the same vein.
And don't even get started on race, have you read Live & Let Die? Or sexuality, Goldfinger and Thunderball? Women drivers, also in Thunderball?
Without labouring the point, they were written at a time when these views were widely held and, thank God, times have changed. It wouldn't be relevant any more to keep these aspects in the films. Unless you set every film in the 50s and make it a period drama like Mad Men. I for one would hate that, I want to see a modern, relevant Bond.
to the times,but the core of the character always remains.
Well-said, my friend! -{
the 60's. He's called Austin Powers.
You have a fair point. Fleming's Bond is very much a misogynist. But what, exactly, is wrong with that, aside from being socially unacceptable these days? You're quite right in that the literary Bond had his misogynistic and racist thoughts exposed in the novels, but unless I'm very much mistaken, he rarely expresses them, which means that in the translation to cinema, he would keep his misogynistic and racist views to himself.
I want to see the films modernised - in that the producers create new stories, filmed in an environment surrounded by new technology. But I also think that the character - and all the main supporting characters who were created by Fleming - should not be materially different from that which was depicted in the novels, in appearance, behaviour and mannerisms.
i actually leaked a bit of piss out laughing at this.
i missed all this controversy going on, shame really. I think i'm equally astounded that this point of 'current bond should be more like fleming bond' keeps getting brought up like some proverbial furball of bond discussion. it's as bad as the racist baiting 'will there ever be a black bond?' conversations.
true, i've not read a single fleming book. ever. wanna know why?
a) no time
b) i live in bond film universe, the books would just confuse me
c) no colouring in section
d) i found the books to be too detailed. I don't wanna read 3 pages of what cloth bond's kecks were cut from.
it's not down to 'disrespecting' anyone, it's just my choice. i'm not saying fleming is a knob, or that his work was crap, i mean c'mon, i'm a BOND fan, how would that compute?
as many people, myself included, have pointed out, the arse slapping days of bond are gone. get with the program, move with the times. the new films and latest stories (imo anyway) are great, they work and make brilliant films. you can't get away with all that 60's mindset stuff.
anyway, gotta go, the wife needs her arse tanning and i've got to get Winston McChombington to bring the car round, the dishwasher broke down this morning so i've got to take her to the shrink before playing bridge at the local gentleman's club - the gollywog arms.
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
Brilliant! -{
In this day and age, being a misogynist and a racist is more than just "socially unacceptable", IMO. It would be downright stupid. Granted, back in the days of Bond's origin there was still a lot of misinformation and misguided viewpoints stemming from a number of factors, including more limited interaction among various races and cultures, governments that actually promoted and supported discrimination and segregation, the widespread notion that women couldn't handle certain jobs "reserved" for men, etc. But if the Bond films are going to take place in the present day, wouldn't Bond have to be a bit of a moron to still cling to those outdated and widely discredited viewpoints? I'm not saying there aren't individuals who still harbor those views even today, but those people tend to be morons. Bond is many things, but he's not stupid.
Yes, but you can still move with the times and be faithful to Fleming, such as the Dalton era did and the current Craig era is doing. I think you misunderstand my point here. Of course Bond had to change with the times and be modernised in order to survive, but I was pointing out that fidelity to Fleming is not the death knell to the Eon Bond film series many had long predeicted it would be. Look at Skyfall for heaven's sake! It took much from Fleming's latter Bond novels YOLT and TMWTGG. Don't try to better yourself or read about the character's origins in Fleming. You'll surely soon learn that Fleming's Bond is not as black and white as you paint him here. Dink and the "man talk" arse-slap did not come from Fleming (the same with the "fetch my shoes" line from Dr. No that you reference) - that character doesn't even appear in the Goldfinger novel. Chalk that doubt to the scriptwriters Richard Maibaum and Paul Dehn.
I find it astounding (though not very surprising) that you have not read a page of Fleming even out of curiosity. You might learn actually something. Heaven forbid that would happen.
Do any of the original Fleming books come with a set of crayons or at least have some piccys inside? All them big words gimme a headache.
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
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Seriously though, we all realise that EON needs to remain true to the Bond character, but even in the novels his character changes and develops. The Bond of Casino Royale is not the same Bond of YOLT.
So doesn't it stand to reason his character should progress and develop in the films too?