I have no problem with the OP's post and believe his enquiry is sincere and valid. The long list of Japanese characters has obviously thrown some people for a loop, but I can see little reason for him to be thought of as a spammer...unless those Japanese words are actually a subliminal advertisement for Viagra. Considering that we have pages and pages and pages of discussion and investigation into which pair of socks Daniel Craig wears in one blink-of-an-eye shot, I think a discussion into the etymological origins of Kissy Suzuki are fair enough!
Well, my threads here are not of the "What's Daniel Craig's favourite pizza topping?" variety, as I'm sure you already know by now...hence my (unjustified) anger at this thread AND being called a spammer.
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
Silhouette ManThe last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,828MI6 Agent
Did anyone catch my post explaining why it may not be even related to her own name? As I said, being a glamor actress in Japan during the 1950's was viewed as an "American" profession. Hence, you'd get an "American" (English language) nickname. This was common to all professions viewed as "American". I also found that in some cases, they would just write out the Kanji for the family name and then print the nickname in the Roman alphabet. I found a publication, for example, that literally made reference to "稲尾 Iron Man" as a descriptive of Kazuhisa "Iron Man" Inao thanks to his success on the baseball diamond (another "American" profession). Inao was probably the best and the best known of the "nickname only" ballplayers in Japan during the 1950's-1960's, so I'll stick with using him as an example. For all we know, the fictional Kissy Suzuki could have literally rendered her name as "鈴木 Kissy". Her given name could be anything; there's nothing in the Bond canon that tells us what it may actually be.
Yes, here's your answer, I'd bet. Who'd call their daughter Kissy, anyway. Katsouka, yes.
Missed your excellent post in my tirade!
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
Ok I am glad you (Silhouette Man) changed your position I only accused you because you accused me first without even knowing me... I couldn't be a spammer because I was giving well thought answers, I couldn't be a troll because I wasn't getting into anything controversial... I was just trying to find the possible real name of Kissy Suzuki because her surname is too common to help as an identifier but her name is too false to help as a name and I wanted to reference her in a character that would be a homage to her... (who would have surnames based on the two famous people that bear the surname Suzuki, Michio Suzuki the person behind the car company and Shin'ichi Suzuki, the man behind the Suzuki method) the third element of the homage would be Kissy Suzuki's real name or a name that could have been her real name...
Has anyone read the novel in a translation to Japanese? That may help me... at least impose a solution to my probably unresolvable question, becuase I never expected so many options... I just want the name to be a homage... Everything else would be... Mmmm... My idea of what the mother of James Bond's only son should be...
Dalkowski110 thanks for your post, it makes a lot of sense... But I dont want to mak that bet and then find out, once my story is in print... that my homage to James Bond was shooting myself in the foot because Kissy was indeed a nickname r Ian Fleming used for someone in whom he was inspired to create the character... I mean if she is James Suzuki's mother and James Suzuki is James Bond's son... She must have been an important character for Ian Fleming, she must be the most important Bond girl, even more important than funny named bond girls like pussy galore or octupussy (which I often merge into Octo Galore)
Dalkowski110 thanks for your post, it makes a lot of sense... But I dont want to mak that bet and then find out, once my story is in print... that my homage to James Bond was shooting myself in the foot because Kissy was indeed a nickname r Ian Fleming used for someone in whom he was inspired to create the character... I mean if she is James Suzuki's mother and James Suzuki is James Bond's son... She must have been an important character for Ian Fleming, she must be the most important Bond girl, even more important than funny named bond girls like pussy galore or octupussy (which I often merge into Octo Galore)
The irony is that she wasn't particularly important for Ian Fleming. She was, however, the only person with whom Bond could conceivably have encouraged fathering a child. He's totally brainwashed by the end of the novel and honestly believes himself to be a good husband. The story in which James Suzuki appears was published on these grounds nearly forty years after Ian Fleming died.
By the way, I did manage to find a screenshot of the film and found her name to be rendered this way in the credits...
キッシー鈴木
Okay, so for those unable to speak Japanese, that's "Suzuki Kisshi". Adding the "sh" would have made it easier to pronounce for the average Japanese speaker. There were certain baseball nicknames that worked like this (Tetsuharu Kawakami's "King of Hits", for example, although I can't remember how exactly it was transliterated from English to Japanese...it was something like "Kinghitshu"). This means we still don't know her given name, although we do know her nickname was rendered in Japanese and in fact, that it slightly differed from the English version.
This is a silly thread and should be closed - it's clearly a spam post of little worth...
just to make clear who made the "spamming" accusation first
Yes, we can always rely on your skills of observation, Bondtoys, but ask yourself this: Why was this an earlier version thread originally deleted as spam?
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,447Chief of Staff
This is a silly thread and should be closed - it's clearly a spam post of little worth...
just to make clear who made the "spamming" accusation first
Yes, we can always rely on your skills of observation, Bondtoys, but ask yourself this: Why was this an earlier version thread originally deleted as spam?
In the excellent "James Bond: the man and his world. The official companion to Ian Fleming's creation", Henry Chancellor devotes a chapter to the etymology of Bond girl names and notes:
Kissy Suzuki, You Only Live Twice
Fleming met 'Kissy', who was wearing nothing but a pair of tiny white shorts and a white brassiere, in a bathhouse in Tokyo. She looked like Brigitte Bardot, and she was was the prettiest girl in Japan. Kissy was one of the many oddly named masseuses and prostitutes - Miss Baby, Miss Outer Space, Miss Ten Thousand Fun and Safety - whose names intrigued Fleming on his trip to the Far East.
This is a silly thread and should be closed - it's clearly a spam post of little worth...
just to make clear who made the "spamming" accusation first
Yes, we can always rely on your skills of observation, Bondtoys, but ask yourself this: Why was this an earlier version thread originally deleted as spam?
Ok, so you assumed that the initial post was spam, you called the second post spam and are offended when you are called a spammer in return? 8-)
Now, that makes more sense
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Silhouette ManThe last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,828MI6 Agent
just to make clear who made the "spamming" accusation first
Yes, we can always rely on your skills of observation, Bondtoys, but ask yourself this: Why was this an earlier version thread originally deleted as spam?
Ok, so you assumed that the initial post was spam, you called the second post spam and are offended when you are called a spammer in return? 8-)
Now, that makes more sense
Don't toy around with the schedule here in this thread - it makes so much sense to start with!
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
Silhouette ManThe last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,828MI6 Agent
just to make clear who made the "spamming" accusation first
Yes, we can always rely on your skills of observation, Bondtoys, but ask yourself this: Why was this an earlier version thread originally deleted as spam?
The first thread wasn't deleted as 'spam'...
Sorry. Maybe it was that it was nearly deleted...confused.com?
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
Okay, so for those unable to speak Japanese, that's "Suzuki Kisshi". Adding the "sh" would have made it easier to pronounce for the average Japanese speaker. There were certain baseball nicknames that worked like this (Tetsuharu Kawakami's "King of Hits", for example, although I can't remember how exactly it was transliterated from English to Japanese...it was something like "Kinghitshu"). This means we still don't know her given name, although we do know her nickname was rendered in Japanese and in fact, that it slightly differed from the English version.
Mmm... That gives some idea of what can be claimed...
In the excellent "James Bond: the man and his world. The official companion to Ian Fleming's creation", Henry Chancellor devotes a chapter to the etymology of Bond girl names and notes:
Kissy Suzuki, You Only Live Twice
Fleming met 'Kissy', who was wearing nothing but a pair of tiny white shorts and a white brassiere, in a bathhouse in Tokyo. She looked like Brigitte Bardot, and she was was the prettiest girl in Japan. Kissy was one of the many oddly named masseuses and prostitutes - Miss Baby, Miss Outer Space, Miss Ten Thousand Fun and Safety - whose names intrigued Fleming on his trip to the Far East.
So I guess we have an answer...
W0w... Is this Henry Chancellor alive? Can he be contacted? I have to find out if there is any way to find the real name of this unknown masseuse or prostitute that influenced Ian's naming scheme on Kissy... Because to me that masseuse's real name would be Kissy's real name...
I'm pretty sure Henry Chancellor is alive as his book was only published in October 2005.
As for Kissy, Fleming's vist would have been in the 1950s, so if she was still alive she'd probably be in her Eighties by now... And I'm not sure how you'd get in contact. But Chancellor or the Ian Fleming Foundation may know more and are worth approaching...
I'm pretty sure Henry Chancellor is alive as his book was only published in October 2005.
As for Kissy, Fleming's vist would have been in the 1950s, so if she was still alive she'd probably be in her Eighties by now... And I'm not sure how you'd get in contact. But Chancellor or the Ian Fleming Foundation may know more and are worth approaching...
He is indeed alive and is quite a prolific writer. You should be able to contact via his publisher.
Thanks... I have tried finding how to contact him and so far I've seen he is younger than I thought... The masseuse that inspired Kissy Suzuki's name may be dead already (a masseuse that could also be a prostitute would not have the 80 years life expectancy an average Japanese woman would have and she would probably have died in her 40s at most) but just like genealogists can build family trees from documents I guess it can be found who this woman was... The hard part is that I cannot afford going to Japan so I must be able to do the research through the web... I am planning going to London so maybe I can contact Henry Chancellor in person... But I wonder if I can keep track of my files that long because I wouldn't be there until April... And I have tons of archives...
Alex, alternately she could have been a college girl doing it for the money or perhaps "young and stupid". If either scenario is the case and she's still alive or got married, had kids, and passed away, I would really doubt that either her or her family would wish to be identified. Just mentioning the possibility.
Alex, alternately she could have been a college girl doing it for the money or perhaps "young and stupid". If either scenario is the case and she's still alive or got married, had kids, and passed away, I would really doubt that either her or her family would wish to be identified. Just mentioning the possibility.
I dont think Japan had many of such women but any wya. I dont really want to identify her to the pbulich... I would just use her real first name... or maybe her real surname... but not her full name
I have a VERY good friend who was an MP stationed in Yokohama during the mid-1950's (was a little too young for the Korean War). He would beg to differ. Probably REALLY beg to differ, actually. He met his now-very-respectable wife, umm, doing something less than respectable. You'd be dead on 100% correct if you're talking pre-WWII and WWII era, but this is the mid fifties. A LOT changed during the Allied Occupation.
I have a VERY good friend who was an MP stationed in Yokohama during the mid-1950's (was a little too young for the Korean War). He would beg to differ. Probably REALLY beg to differ, actually. He met his now-very-respectable wife, umm, doing something less than respectable. You'd be dead on 100% correct if you're talking pre-WWII and WWII era, but this is the mid fifties. A LOT changed during the Allied Occupation.
Not here it isn't. In Japan, it was (and to a degree still is), from around the 1950's-1980's, viewed as about one step removed from prostitution. As my friend explained to me (believe me, I made this same screw-up), the Japanese anti-prostitution statutes were typically gotten around by using masseuses and other "resort spa" type job descriptions.
Not here it isn't. In Japan, it was (and to a degree still is), from around the 1950's-1980's, viewed as about one step removed from prostitution. As my friend explained to me (believe me, I made this same screw-up), the Japanese anti-prostitution statutes were typically gotten around by using masseuses and other "resort spa" type job descriptions.
Yep, I heard of those tricks... But I didn't thought it could mean that much... Well anyway I dont want to make the real Kissy's identity public... I just want to know her real name to see which part of her name goes better for a character inspired on Kissy Suzuki to be the mother of a character inspired on James Bond's son and on James bond himself...
Comments
Well, my threads here are not of the "What's Daniel Craig's favourite pizza topping?" variety, as I'm sure you already know by now...hence my (unjustified) anger at this thread AND being called a spammer.
Yes, here's your answer, I'd bet. Who'd call their daughter Kissy, anyway. Katsouka, yes.
Missed your excellent post in my tirade!
Watch, now some guy is gonna show up and start posting about Daniel Craig's favorite pizza topping.
That's okay, happens to the best of us.
BTW ... bangers and mush(rooms), I reckon.
“It reads better than it lives.” T. Case
Has anyone read the novel in a translation to Japanese? That may help me... at least impose a solution to my probably unresolvable question, becuase I never expected so many options... I just want the name to be a homage... Everything else would be... Mmmm... My idea of what the mother of James Bond's only son should be...
The irony is that she wasn't particularly important for Ian Fleming. She was, however, the only person with whom Bond could conceivably have encouraged fathering a child. He's totally brainwashed by the end of the novel and honestly believes himself to be a good husband. The story in which James Suzuki appears was published on these grounds nearly forty years after Ian Fleming died.
By the way, I did manage to find a screenshot of the film and found her name to be rendered this way in the credits...
キッシー鈴木
Okay, so for those unable to speak Japanese, that's "Suzuki Kisshi". Adding the "sh" would have made it easier to pronounce for the average Japanese speaker. There were certain baseball nicknames that worked like this (Tetsuharu Kawakami's "King of Hits", for example, although I can't remember how exactly it was transliterated from English to Japanese...it was something like "Kinghitshu"). This means we still don't know her given name, although we do know her nickname was rendered in Japanese and in fact, that it slightly differed from the English version.
“It reads better than it lives.” T. Case
just to make clear who made the "spamming" accusation first
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Yes, we can always rely on your skills of observation, Bondtoys, but ask yourself this: Why was this an earlier version thread originally deleted as spam?
The first thread wasn't deleted as 'spam'...
Kissy Suzuki, You Only Live Twice
Fleming met 'Kissy', who was wearing nothing but a pair of tiny white shorts and a white brassiere, in a bathhouse in Tokyo. She looked like Brigitte Bardot, and she was was the prettiest girl in Japan. Kissy was one of the many oddly named masseuses and prostitutes - Miss Baby, Miss Outer Space, Miss Ten Thousand Fun and Safety - whose names intrigued Fleming on his trip to the Far East.
So I guess we have an answer...
Ok, so you assumed that the initial post was spam, you called the second post spam and are offended when you are called a spammer in return? 8-)
Now, that makes more sense
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Don't toy around with the schedule here in this thread - it makes so much sense to start with!
Sorry. Maybe it was that it was nearly deleted...confused.com?
--SILHOUETTE MAN.
Mmm... That gives some idea of what can be claimed...
W0w... Is this Henry Chancellor alive? Can he be contacted? I have to find out if there is any way to find the real name of this unknown masseuse or prostitute that influenced Ian's naming scheme on Kissy... Because to me that masseuse's real name would be Kissy's real name...
Thanks BondToys for the help, but this problem is in the past for me... I've forgiven and gone onwards already
As for Kissy, Fleming's vist would have been in the 1950s, so if she was still alive she'd probably be in her Eighties by now... And I'm not sure how you'd get in contact. But Chancellor or the Ian Fleming Foundation may know more and are worth approaching...
Yes, let by-gones bev by-gones.
Thanks... I have tried finding how to contact him and so far I've seen he is younger than I thought... The masseuse that inspired Kissy Suzuki's name may be dead already (a masseuse that could also be a prostitute would not have the 80 years life expectancy an average Japanese woman would have and she would probably have died in her 40s at most) but just like genealogists can build family trees from documents I guess it can be found who this woman was... The hard part is that I cannot afford going to Japan so I must be able to do the research through the web... I am planning going to London so maybe I can contact Henry Chancellor in person... But I wonder if I can keep track of my files that long because I wouldn't be there until April... And I have tons of archives...
I dont think Japan had many of such women but any wya. I dont really want to identify her to the pbulich... I would just use her real first name... or maybe her real surname... but not her full name
I have a VERY good friend who was an MP stationed in Yokohama during the mid-1950's (was a little too young for the Korean War). He would beg to differ. Probably REALLY beg to differ, actually. He met his now-very-respectable wife, umm, doing something less than respectable. You'd be dead on 100% correct if you're talking pre-WWII and WWII era, but this is the mid fifties. A LOT changed during the Allied Occupation.
Oh ok... Well, anyway... Masseuse isn't somethign negative
Not here it isn't. In Japan, it was (and to a degree still is), from around the 1950's-1980's, viewed as about one step removed from prostitution. As my friend explained to me (believe me, I made this same screw-up), the Japanese anti-prostitution statutes were typically gotten around by using masseuses and other "resort spa" type job descriptions.
Yep, I heard of those tricks... But I didn't thought it could mean that much... Well anyway I dont want to make the real Kissy's identity public... I just want to know her real name to see which part of her name goes better for a character inspired on Kissy Suzuki to be the mother of a character inspired on James Bond's son and on James bond himself...