I think the reason that Dalton has made only 2 movies is well documented over the years. A lot of court cases and such. There has been some debate as to the success of the Dalton movies. I was too young at the time to remember how Dalton was received in the media and by the public in Europe and the U.S. but I do know that his movies are favorite among my friends when we started watching the Bond movies in 1993. I believe that the Roger Moore movies were still very successful when Moore left the role. Remember he was basically begged to come back for Octopussy because of the rival Bond movie by Kevin McGlory. Maybe the change from Moore to Dalton was too big at the time but I think time has been very generous on the Dalton movies.
I agree, that the change from Moore to Dalton was too harsh.
Brosnan and Moore both had the kind of glamour, which was necessary to bring the audiences to the movies, Dalton never was a star.
Some may object with the usual 'Shakespeare actor' argument, I am not too keen to his weepy performance and his non-convincing attempt to pretent the hard guy.
I am aware that others disagree
I simply don't buy it from him, never have. Lewis Collins would have been the better choice back then imo - so don't tell me, that I can't agree with Dalton because I want comedy.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
It is hard to gauge just how people took to Dalton in the abscence of social media back then. Now we have a fair idea of how Cavill is received as Superman, or how Downey Jr fares as Iron Man, as every man and his dog has a review on imdb, some for and some against with Cavill.
Dalton's films were pre-internet so we are reliant on critic reviews mainly, and they will want to play along with the idea of a new Bond, as the Bond films are a cash cow in terms of easy coverage, plus they had slagged off Moore so much they sort of had to like Dalton. In any event, a handful of critics don't amount to an overall view. And nor, I suppose, do what our mates at the time had to say, either for or against.
Even if it's true that many liked Dalton at the time, nothing to say that those in postiions of power in the film industry shared those views. Maybe the powers that be just didn't like Dalton (I don't mean EON, rather MGM) and they had the say. Arnie was rather scathing about the last Bond film on his True Lies press junket. So who cares? But Arnie was a major player back then, and his willingness to express his opinion on the whole downbeat LTK vibe spoke volumes.
There was no general eagerness for Dalton to return as Bond imo, no real impetus, so in that sense what would create eagerness - an hitherto overlooked Brosnan with a story to tell - was always going to feel good to the studios. After all, had a balding Dalton returned with all the fanfare, and flopped or flatlined, it would be harder to bring back Bond again with a new actor or in any form, it could be show over.
There was no general eagerness for Dalton to return as Bond imo, no real impetus, so in that sense what would create eagerness - an hitherto overlooked Brosnan with a story to tell - was always going to feel good to the studios.
Any source for that statement, or is it merely opinion as you stated? Because I remember the feeling among my friends who are Bond fans and I was that we were really excited about the prospect of having Dalton do several more Bond films, and were sorely disappointed with the delay and Dalton's eventual exit from the series. Or perhaps you are stating only that there was no "eagerness for Dalton to return" as far as the producers were concerned. But even so, do you have a source that backs that up, or is it merely conjecture on your part?
No, I meant in the general media. And, I guess, the UK media, albeit what mags were there? Empire, and Starburst.
Empire allowed one snippy comment from its writer, it seemed, Dalton 'crowing' he would be back as Bond. And a writer in Starburst saying he thought Dalton was the worst Bond to date, emphasising that that included Lazenby (who unlike today, did not have his fans back then, well, not in public anyway.)
But nothing much in the way of enthusiasm in the UK national press, certainly compared with what we got with Brosnan's arrival, and Craig. The review of Dalton's LTK in one US newspaper described was lukewarm, saying there was nothing much going on there (I was in the States when it got released). No real love for Dalton in the review either.
Anyway, as I said, a rip round of our friends' views don't say much either way.
Can you recall any enthusiasm for Dalton's return in the US national press?
Glad that Nap kind of comfirms what I have been saying about Dalton's acceptance in the press and the cinema audience. The internet is full with that kind of echo and it must have been pretty tough for defiant digging for the one ( pretty recent!) gq article that praised Dalton.
So much about letting facts cross personal opinions.
BL good that you and your pals enjoyed the movies!
You are constantly asking for sources but at the same time your personal opinion and that from your Bond pals back then is the only thing that you are bringing up!
Your experiences do not reflect my personal experiences and I remember that here in Germany the critics and audience did not enjoy Dalton very much.
Everybody was happy when Pierce took over though not a big surprise for me and many others
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Will add that cinema was in some ways a teenagers' game back then, and I was around 17-19 years of age and had grown up with and liked Moore, maybe the same for Bondtoys, so our friends at the time might share that. Blackleiter being a bit older, well, to be in your mid to late 30s and have to watch Moore joking it up and p*ssing all over what you enjoyed with Connery would be annoying I imagine, so his contemporaries would share that.
"This is where we leave you Mr Bond."
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,757Chief of Staff
Glad that Nap kind of comfirms what I have been saying about Dalton's acceptance in the press and the cinema audience. The internet is full with that kind of echo and it must have been for defiant hard digging for the one ( pretty recent!) gq article that praised Dalton.
BL good that you and your pals enjoyed the movies.
That does not reflect my personal experiences and I remember that here in Germany the critics and audience did not enjoy Dalton very much.
Everybody was happy that Poerce took over though not a big surprise for me and many others
I remember that most of the tabloid press here at the time were VERY complimentary about Dalton getting the role - saying he was ready for the part - and a great actor - whereas for Brosnan it was still a little early for him...even the reviews for the films was good, especially TLD....LTK was heralded as a 'straight Fleming thriller'...which got decent reviews but was quickly pushed aside by the 'other blockbuster' films that were released at the same time...
Ahem, I could ask for sources like the Dalton sect guys alwasy do but I am aware that back then the internet barely existed
So we all have to rely on our own memories instead.
Actually I do have a scrapbook from back then...it covers Goldeneye too...alas, I can't lay my hands on it...it's locked away with 99% of my Bond collection
Blackleiter being a bit older, well, to be in your mid to late 30s and have to watch Moore joking it up and p*ssing all over what you enjoyed with Connery would be annoying I imagine, so his contemporaries would share that.
Impeccable insight, Nap! I'm sure the age factor (as well as my choice of friends) had a significant impact on my experience with respect to the Dalton Bond films. And the comments from Bondtoys notwithstanding, I was not asking for sources because I doubt your veracity. I was just wondering if you had specific information about the general reception of Dalton's films when they were released because I get the sense from many of your posts that you often research your claims. I am certainly not claiming that I have any research or evidence one way or the other. The reason I pointed out my own personal experience is because that's what I know, and because I'm curious as to whether my view of the Dalton films is out of the mainstream of the prevailing public opinion at the time the films were released.
Everybody was happy when Pierce took over though not a big surprise for me and many others
So you took a poll of "everybody"? Impressive!
Now you are starting this again 8-)
I was hoping that it was clear that I was speaking for the german critics and the german audience - I admit - most of them
"Everybody" was not used in an absolute context 8-)
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Everybody was happy when Pierce took over though not a big surprise for me and many others
So you took a poll of "everybody"? Impressive!
Now you are starting this again 8-)
I was hoping that it was clear that I was speaking for the german critics and the german audience - I admit - most of them
"Everybody" was not used in an absolute context 8-)
Come on, "Toys", lighten up! Didn't you notice my smile?
Actually I do have a scrapbook from back then...it covers Goldeneye too...alas, I can't lay my hands on it...it's locked away with 99% of my Bond collection
I wonder if your other 'scrapbooks' include some nude chick pics, Sah Mahles ;%
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,757Chief of Staff
Actually I do have a scrapbook from back then...it covers Goldeneye too...alas, I can't lay my hands on it...it's locked away with 99% of my Bond collection
I wonder if your other 'scrapbooks' include some nude chick pics, Sah Mahles ;%
Nah...its full of Germans in lederhosen...remember that you are included twice
Ja, ich weiss. I much prefer posting from home on the PC than from from my phone.
(Ahem)
To keep on topic: I seem to remember than when TLD came out there was a bit of general excitement over the new Bond actor but LTK didn't make as much of a stir. I was at the Scottish premiere, and while there was a full house there was no "buzz" in the air either before or after the movie.
LTK didn't make as much of a stir. I was at the Scottish premiere, and while there was a full house there was no "buzz" in the air either before or after the movie.
My memory of back then is a general concensus that Lethal Weapon 2 had better action.
LTK didn't make as much of a stir. I was at the Scottish premiere, and while there was a full house there was no "buzz" in the air either before or after the movie.
My memory of back then is a general concensus that Lethal Weapon 2 had better action.
By contrast I remember going to see Goldeneye 6 years later and there was a massive buzz. Maybe it was "second film syndrome" but I just think LTK was, maybe, too gritty. Which suits DC but maybe not TD...
Glad that Nap kind of comfirms what I have been saying about Dalton's acceptance in the press and the cinema audience. The internet is full with that kind of echo and it must have been for defiant hard digging for the one ( pretty recent!) gq article that praised Dalton.
BL good that you and your pals enjoyed the movies.
That does not reflect my personal experiences and I remember that here in Germany the critics and audience did not enjoy Dalton very much.
Everybody was happy that Poerce took over though not a big surprise for me and many others
I remember that most of the tabloid press here at the time were VERY complimentary about Dalton getting the role - saying he was ready for the part - and a great actor - whereas for Brosnan it was still a little early for him...even the reviews for the films was good, especially TLD....LTK was heralded as a 'straight Fleming thriller'...which got decent reviews but was quickly pushed aside by the 'other blockbuster' films that were released at the same time...
Oh, Dalton's hiring got great reviews and publicity from the tabloid press, certainly. Moore had sort of been long seen as a joke in the series albeit a joke Moore himself went along with, and all decent critics relied on the old adage that Connery was better, a tack that came undone when the rather lamentable NSNA came out - they couldn't very well slate it. But when TLD came out I got the sense that the critics weren't all over it. Again, it's hard to say because most of the tabloid press will go whichever way the wind is blowing, and not want to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. Barry Norman opined that the jury was still out on Dalton, while it's true that the 007 Fan Club went overboard on it, just as they did when LTK came out, both being serious films. Raymond Benson interviewed Dalton for 007 Mag and said he loved it. But the Bond formula itself was also getting tested at that time, what with the post-AIDS era and the Die Hard more gritty, less exotic style in vogue. Dalton also fell foul of that.
Comments
Brosnan and Moore both had the kind of glamour, which was necessary to bring the audiences to the movies, Dalton never was a star.
Some may object with the usual 'Shakespeare actor' argument, I am not too keen to his weepy performance and his non-convincing attempt to pretent the hard guy.
I am aware that others disagree
I simply don't buy it from him, never have. Lewis Collins would have been the better choice back then imo - so don't tell me, that I can't agree with Dalton because I want comedy.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Dalton's films were pre-internet so we are reliant on critic reviews mainly, and they will want to play along with the idea of a new Bond, as the Bond films are a cash cow in terms of easy coverage, plus they had slagged off Moore so much they sort of had to like Dalton. In any event, a handful of critics don't amount to an overall view. And nor, I suppose, do what our mates at the time had to say, either for or against.
Even if it's true that many liked Dalton at the time, nothing to say that those in postiions of power in the film industry shared those views. Maybe the powers that be just didn't like Dalton (I don't mean EON, rather MGM) and they had the say. Arnie was rather scathing about the last Bond film on his True Lies press junket. So who cares? But Arnie was a major player back then, and his willingness to express his opinion on the whole downbeat LTK vibe spoke volumes.
There was no general eagerness for Dalton to return as Bond imo, no real impetus, so in that sense what would create eagerness - an hitherto overlooked Brosnan with a story to tell - was always going to feel good to the studios. After all, had a balding Dalton returned with all the fanfare, and flopped or flatlined, it would be harder to bring back Bond again with a new actor or in any form, it could be show over.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Any source for that statement, or is it merely opinion as you stated? Because I remember the feeling among my friends who are Bond fans and I was that we were really excited about the prospect of having Dalton do several more Bond films, and were sorely disappointed with the delay and Dalton's eventual exit from the series. Or perhaps you are stating only that there was no "eagerness for Dalton to return" as far as the producers were concerned. But even so, do you have a source that backs that up, or is it merely conjecture on your part?
Empire allowed one snippy comment from its writer, it seemed, Dalton 'crowing' he would be back as Bond. And a writer in Starburst saying he thought Dalton was the worst Bond to date, emphasising that that included Lazenby (who unlike today, did not have his fans back then, well, not in public anyway.)
But nothing much in the way of enthusiasm in the UK national press, certainly compared with what we got with Brosnan's arrival, and Craig. The review of Dalton's LTK in one US newspaper described was lukewarm, saying there was nothing much going on there (I was in the States when it got released). No real love for Dalton in the review either.
Anyway, as I said, a rip round of our friends' views don't say much either way.
Can you recall any enthusiasm for Dalton's return in the US national press?
Roger Moore 1927-2017
So much about letting facts cross personal opinions.
BL good that you and your pals enjoyed the movies!
You are constantly asking for sources but at the same time your personal opinion and that from your Bond pals back then is the only thing that you are bringing up!
Your experiences do not reflect my personal experiences and I remember that here in Germany the critics and audience did not enjoy Dalton very much.
Everybody was happy when Pierce took over though not a big surprise for me and many others
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Roger Moore 1927-2017
I remember that most of the tabloid press here at the time were VERY complimentary about Dalton getting the role - saying he was ready for the part - and a great actor - whereas for Brosnan it was still a little early for him...even the reviews for the films was good, especially TLD....LTK was heralded as a 'straight Fleming thriller'...which got decent reviews but was quickly pushed aside by the 'other blockbuster' films that were released at the same time...
So we all have to rely on our own memories instead.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Actually I do have a scrapbook from back then...it covers Goldeneye too...alas, I can't lay my hands on it...it's locked away with 99% of my Bond collection
Impeccable insight, Nap! I'm sure the age factor (as well as my choice of friends) had a significant impact on my experience with respect to the Dalton Bond films. And the comments from Bondtoys notwithstanding, I was not asking for sources because I doubt your veracity. I was just wondering if you had specific information about the general reception of Dalton's films when they were released because I get the sense from many of your posts that you often research your claims. I am certainly not claiming that I have any research or evidence one way or the other. The reason I pointed out my own personal experience is because that's what I know, and because I'm curious as to whether my view of the Dalton films is out of the mainstream of the prevailing public opinion at the time the films were released.
So you took a poll of "everybody"? Impressive!
Now you are starting this again 8-)
I was hoping that it was clear that I was speaking for the german critics and the german audience - I admit - most of them
"Everybody" was not used in an absolute context 8-)
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Come on, "Toys", lighten up! Didn't you notice my smile?
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I wonder if your other 'scrapbooks' include some nude chick pics, Sah Mahles ;%
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Nah...its full of Germans in lederhosen...remember that you are included twice
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I think that's the look on your face in one of them too B-)
I guess that that's the way to become a mod here
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
You have no idea how often I have to edit when I am posting wi it.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
(Ahem)
To keep on topic: I seem to remember than when TLD came out there was a bit of general excitement over the new Bond actor but LTK didn't make as much of a stir. I was at the Scottish premiere, and while there was a full house there was no "buzz" in the air either before or after the movie.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
I'm actually a "Connerysectist", but I forgive you!
By contrast I remember going to see Goldeneye 6 years later and there was a massive buzz. Maybe it was "second film syndrome" but I just think LTK was, maybe, too gritty. Which suits DC but maybe not TD...
Oh, Dalton's hiring got great reviews and publicity from the tabloid press, certainly. Moore had sort of been long seen as a joke in the series albeit a joke Moore himself went along with, and all decent critics relied on the old adage that Connery was better, a tack that came undone when the rather lamentable NSNA came out - they couldn't very well slate it. But when TLD came out I got the sense that the critics weren't all over it. Again, it's hard to say because most of the tabloid press will go whichever way the wind is blowing, and not want to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. Barry Norman opined that the jury was still out on Dalton, while it's true that the 007 Fan Club went overboard on it, just as they did when LTK came out, both being serious films. Raymond Benson interviewed Dalton for 007 Mag and said he loved it. But the Bond formula itself was also getting tested at that time, what with the post-AIDS era and the Die Hard more gritty, less exotic style in vogue. Dalton also fell foul of that.
Roger Moore 1927-2017