Why Octopussy is Roger's most excellent Bond movie

chrisisall · January 2013

Better endings for the villains than in LALD.
More eventful and exciting than TMWTGG.
Not as simply spectacle-driven as TSWLM, focusing more on character & plot, more locations & cinematic diversity.
More internally tonally consistent than FYEO, as well as having a superiour PTS, better overall action, a finer score and prettier women.
Roger is in better shape than in AVTAK and sells the action much better, and Tanya Roberts isn't in it.

So there you have it. Agree? Disagree? Other reasons why it's his best?

toddthatcher · January 2013

big fan of Octopossy chris. My 2nd fave Moore... I do like TSWLM more though

Jarvio · January 2013

I love OP, so agree with you in that respect.

But I also love AVTAK, LALD, and FYEO....

And I very much like TSWLM and TMWTGG isn't too bad either!

In all honesty, MR is Roger's only stinker IMO...

Le Samourai · January 2013

I agree, pretty much for the reasons you mentioned. Sir Rog has some great moments, especially the backgammon game. Plus, he shows some real acting chops dressed as a clown at the circus, which is not an easy thing to do.

Also, I've been a fan of Louis Jourdan since his excellent BBC portrayal of Dracula, and I liked him very much as Kemal Khan.

Firemass · January 2013

Better endings for the villains than in LALD. - DISAGREE. Both were fairly realistic and unspectacular. Kahn died in a plane crash, while Orlov was shot in the back by his own men. Meanhwhile, Kananga has that hilariously awesome inflation death, Tee-hee gets "disarmed" on the train, and Baron Samedi simply cannot die!!!

More eventful and exciting than TMWTGG. - AGREE 100% funny, i thought you liked TMWTGG best of the RM movies.

More internally tonally consistent than FYEO, as well as having a superiour PTS, better overall action, a finer score and prettier women. MOSTLY AGREE. I find OP to be the most inconsistent in tone of all the Moore films. Checkpoint charlie one minute, Tarzan the next. East Berlin and India just don't mesh well together. However, the PTS totally rocks and is perhaps my favorite of the series. Great soundtrack...John Barry is better than Bill Conti. Lots and lots of pretty women...good athletes too. Maud was a better match for Roger than Melina.

Roger is in better shape than in AVTAK and sells the action much better, and Tanya Roberts isn't in it. DISAGREE. Moore got a facetuck and lost about 15 pounds for AVTAK and looks far more fit. OP is where he is really showing his age. I will agree that Tanya Roberts is not in OP. lol. However, Tanya is okay by me. Is she the first Bond girl to actually hold down a ordinary day-job? Brilliant!

Thunderpussy · January 2013

I agree OP is great fun Love J Barry's score and I'm one
of the few who Like Moonraker.

)

chrisisall · January 2013

toddthatcher wrote:

big fan of Octopussy chris. My 2nd fave Moore... I do like TSWLM more though

Hey, have I seen you on another site?

)
As fun as TSWLM is (and it's grand fun), OP just has that John Glen edge IMO (despite the Tarzan yell also featured by Chewie in Return Of The Jedi in the same year- how crazy is THAT?) that makes it both a BIG Bond movie, and yet a tight cold war thriller.
But in truth, TMWTGG is my favourite Moore film, as silly as that may sound. 8-)

chrisisall · January 2013

Firemass wrote:

More eventful and exciting than TMWTGG. - AGREE 100% funny, i thought you liked TMWTGG best of the RM movies.

Doesn't mean I can't be objective!

)

Blackleiter · January 2013

I liked FYEO more, but I think OP is Moore's second best Bond film. Also, I totally agree with your reasons for why OP is better than AVTAK (I'm sure you're not surprised at this news!

) )

chrisisall wrote:

Better endings for the villains than in LALD.
More eventful and exciting than TMWTGG.
Not as simply spectacle-driven as TSWLM, focusing more on character & plot, more locations & cinematic diversity.
More internally tonally consistent than FYEO, as well as having a superiour PTS, better overall action, a finer score and prettier women.
Roger is in better shape than in AVTAK and sells the action much better, and Tanya Roberts isn't in it.

So there you have it. Agree? Disagree? Other reasons why it's his best?

Theundeadkennedy · January 2013

I totally agree. Octopussy is the only Moore vehicle that I would ever include in my top ten.

chrisisall · January 2013

Blackleiter wrote:

I liked FYEO more,

If only, IF ONLY Barry had scored FYEO!!!!!! It might possibly be my favourite Moore flick.
A pox on Bill Conti! X-(

chrisisall · January 2013

Theundeadkennedy wrote:

I totally agree. Octopussy is the only Moore vehicle that I would ever include in my top ten.

-{

Blackleiter · January 2013

Agreed - a John Barry score would definitely have elevated the film to an even higher level.

chrisisall wrote:

Blackleiter wrote:

I liked FYEO more,

If only, IF ONLY Barry had scored FYEO!!!!!! It might possibly be my favourite Moore flick.
A pox on Bill Conti! X-(

chrisisall · January 2013

Blackleiter wrote:

Agreed - a John Barry score would definitely have elevated the film to an even higher level.

That Conti garbage is why I don't own it- I just can't watch a Bond movie with such a distracting, horrible score. It's like watching Robocop 2. But worse.

Firemass · January 2013

chrisisall wrote:

But in truth, TMWTGG is my favourite Moore film, as silly as that may sound. 8-)

oh that's quite alright. it's important to know the difference between "best" and "favourite"

(which you obviously do)

James Suzuki · January 2013

Prettier woman, Maud Adams is AWESOME, but Bouquet is gorgeously beautiful. FYEO is my fav Bond Film but OP is my second. There are lots of woman FULL STOP. Also the Barry score is actually my favourite score and I feel like the movie is a whole lot of fun.

Agent007jamest · January 2013

The Tarzan yell & telling the tiger to "siiiiiiiiiit!" are my main memories of OP

also the snake charmer breaking into the OO7 theme. And yes I know that the janitor in OHMSS starts whistling the GF theme but it seems much sillier in OP

and that's not a bad thing just a Moore thing.

Firemass · January 2013

One attribute Octopussy has over most other Bond films is a genuine sense of urgency. Bond is just about in a panic trying to get to that airbase in time.

Moore Than · January 2013

Octopussy is a big favourite of mine. It's very high on entertainment value and has some of the best action sequences in the entire series. Great scenes such as Sotheby's, the backgammon, and Bond's confrontation with General Orlov. Plus a great bunch of characters. I particularly enjoy the sequence beginning where Bond poses as a circus worker all the way through the confrontation with Orlov and the race against the clock to get to the circus on time and defuse the bomb.

chrisisall · January 2013

Agent007jamest wrote:

telling the tiger to "siiiiiiiiiit!"

I loved when he did that.

) SO funny. And not in the dopey Tarzan yell way.

Blackleiter · January 2013

I agree, and that was one of the best things about OP. For once Roger Moore projected a palpable sense that something important was at stake and there was genuine danger involved, even though we knew that in the end Bond would save the day.

Firemass wrote:

One attribute Octopussy has over most other Bond films is a genuine sense of urgency. Bond is just about in a panic trying to get to that airbase in time.

James Suzuki · January 2013

TB was lacking in that, big time.

Matt_Double_O · January 2013

I agree with first 3 points. For me the the switches between sillyness and serious storyline let OP down a bit. However, the PTS in OP is one of my absolute faves!

FYEO is currently my fave Moore film buts its close between this and OP.

I also love the train chase at the end. Great clip of some big oversteer in the Alpha!

Melina is one of my fave bond girls (maybe top) and I think her thirst for revenge makes for a great partnership with Bond.

Dalkowski110 · January 2013

Firemass wrote:

East Berlin and India just don't mesh well together.

Indira Gandhi and Erich Honecker thought they were fine together. I mean, just look at the Hindustan Contessa saloon; the thing has East German wiring and an East German air conditioner! ::cymbal crash:: Thanks, I'll be here the rest of my life.

)

But seriously, I do agree that the film is jarring in the sense that it almost feels like two films. Another thing is that very serious subplots generally go to Orlov. Although there's a very concrete method to his madness (something lacking greatly in DAD, despite the comparisons to Gustav Graves) and he was as I explained in another thread the only person in a position to have dreamt up this scheme (also, as I explained in the same thread, given his low rank of Lieutenant General of Tank Troops in spite of the large size of his command combined with his rivalry with Gogol in particular, he's probably GRU; they recruited rather heavily out of the Tank Corps), he was still at his base an unhinged maniac. Oddly, the comedic subplots go the calm, reserved Kamal Khan. Therefore, not only do we get different tones, but we get different villains with the tones and by virtue of that, different locations with the differing tones. This, I think, is the film's one great weakness. For me, most of the tension was gone after Orlov died since he was obviously behind it all. Kamal Khan was literally packing up and leaving for India! When the bomb is disarmed, that's when the film lost pretty much all its tension for me.

chrisisall · January 2013

Dalkowski110 wrote:

When the bomb is disarmed, that's when the film lost pretty much all its tension for me.

I tend to like movies where the major business gets done before the last two minutes.
Maybe not as long a coda as Return Of The King, but a wind down is cool with me.

Dalkowski110 · January 2013

chrisisall wrote:

Dalkowski110 wrote:

When the bomb is disarmed, that's when the film lost pretty much all its tension for me.

I tend to like movies where the major business gets done before the last two minutes.
Maybe not as long a coda as Return Of The King, but a wind down is cool with me.

I guess I didn't put that well. A wind-down is fine, sure, but the movie tries to get you to believe there's still tension. Seeing as Orlov was 1) the only guy with access to a bomb (key plot point overlooked: a Soviet officer has to explain the bomb's capabilities to a group of flunkies that includes Gobinda. The Soviet officer clearly knows what he's talking about as everyone else pretty much smiles and nods until he says how far away from the thing you have to be when it goes off), 2) likely masterminded the bomb plot and 3) was dead, what threat does Kamal actually present? I mean yeah, I guess he could've been a good smuggler and counterfeiter...but then we have it canonically established that not only was Bond's father-in-law a smuggler who had shot at MI6 agents (implied by the bit about Draco telling M "You know, I lost two of my best men to you" at the wedding) and probably a counterfeiter (Union Corse supposedly did everything), but his single-best ally in the previous movie was a well-armed smuggler (albeit nowhere near on the level of Draco's Union Corse). Yes, Kamal was willing to let all those innocent people die, but what actual threat does he present to those outside his own criminal organization (which, it was implied, was getting downsized anyway; it was just him and Gobinda that left with Octopussy on the airplane...remember he says to Gobinda "I don't want the men to see me leave".)? That's sorta what I mean about the movie telling you there's tension when there doesn;t really seem to be any as opposed to a true wind-down.

chrisisall · January 2013

Heh, I was sort of counting everything after the bomb diffusion as the wind down... I agree, the rest of the movie is just action for action's sake, like most other Moore movies, but at least it was truly tense at one great point! B-)

Dalkowski110 · January 2013

Agreed with your entire post. By the way, for an example of a pretty long wind-down that WAS well-executed, there's always The Living Daylights.

chrisisall · January 2013

And how I do love that movie, front to back. -{

James Suzuki · January 2013

I love the score, it's not Barrys best, but it's my favourite.

lordofthejimmy · January 2013

Well I'm not a Roger Moore fan so I'm probably not the best opinion here, but I didn't like OCTOPUSSY.

I understand Moore's films are more campy and outlandish, but they just take it too far in this film. It almost feels like INDIAN JONES when he's in the marketplace in India. To be fair, INDIANA JONES is based off James Bond (Connery’s even in THE LAST CRUCADE) but when Moore's swinging from the vines with the Tarzan yell, I realize, "We're pretty far from Fleming's creation here."

While I liked Maud Adams in GOLDEN GUN, she's ineffective here. Not really her fault, I just think the character is badly written. I mean when Bond tells her a nuclear bomb is about to blow them sky high, and she just stares at him. The bad guys are just as bland. When the big bad Indian Henchman (I can never remember his name, I just call him Achmed) crushed the dice, I couldn't help but laugh it was so silly.

To be fair, the opening scene is spectacular, and some of the sillier moments are fun to watch. I like it when Roger Moore uses Q’s camera to zoom in on a pair of tits. But I just lose my place somewhere in the middle. I remember Bond in a gorilla costume... weird.

By the time 007, the same man who fought Oddjob in Fort Knox, is running from the cops, dressed like a clown, I’m done! I just can't take it anymore.

So yeah, not a fan, one of my least favorite Bond movies, but I guess I can see how people might enjoy it.

Why Octopussy is Roger's most excellent Bond movie

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