Is Bond the worst spy ever in "A View to a Kill"?

Nick37 · February 2013

I've brought this up in a couple of other threads, but decided to try a full post.

I guess I was so enamored with Walken on earlier viewings of the movie that I didn't notice, but watching it again I couldn't help but notice what a total bungler Bond is while he's at Zorin's estate. When the man you're shadowing pulls his head of security over and tells him to watch you closely just three minutes after meeting you for the first time, you've done something wrong, Mr. Bond.

When Zorin says, "If you're the best they've got, they're more likely try and cover up your embarrassing incompetence." I couldn't help but agree with Zorin.

Gets busted before gaining access, and after gaining access to Zorin's office. Tips his hand over the death of the PI at the Eiffel Tower. Wrong placement of the vial in the lab alerts the crew that something is wrong. (And they might not have suspected it was Bond in the lab if he hadn't made them suspicious of him earlier at the estate). Leaves two people alive after a fistfight that can identify him to Zorin. (You've got a licence to kill, James. Use it.) Knows he's being watched by Zorin (He sees them in his room before he comes up with the MayDay plan) But for some reason thinks they'll let Tibbett go to town and have the freedom to report to M.

Frankly, his best move of the whole first part of the mission was using the air in the tires to breathe while hiding underwater. Poor Tibbett definitely got the raw end of the deal.

I know Bond getting in the face of the bad guy has been done before (The Thunderball casino scene for instance) But never before has Bond looked so inept, as far as i can remember.

Firemass · February 2013

No one's perfect. I greatly enjoy the lengthy spying scene at Zorin's estate. The small gadgets like polarized glasses, the check duplicator, and mini-camera made it really entertaining. Checking for bugs in their guest room and then playing the pre-recorded tape was a delight. And then smartly having their discussion outside on the balcony.

Bond pushes his luck with Zorin the same way Connery did with the "Spectre of defeat" line in TB. Perhaps not the wisest decision, but it's all part of the fun. They were likely on to Bond from the beginning because MayDay knew she had seen him someplace before. (Eiffel Tower)

The suspenseful race to make it back into bed would be revisited in License to Kill. Here Bond comes up just short and ducks into Maydays room instead as the only option. By this point his gig is just about up, but he's still hanging in there. I love the scene in Zorin's office where Bond is answering questions about horses while Zorin is getting the scoop on 007 on his computer.

Anyway....great scenes. I love them all.

When I think of inept I picture Mary Goodnight.

chrisisall · February 2013

Firemass wrote:

When I think of inept I picture Mary Goodnight.

Hey pal, that's my 13 year old self's pretend girlfriend you're talkin' about there!! X-(

Firemass · February 2013

no offense chrisisall...

she does look great in a bikini. one of the prettiest girls in the whole series.

chrisisall · February 2013

Firemass wrote:

no offense chrisisall...

None taken mate, my inner teen had to say something!

)

L Jones · February 2013

Honestly, I thought that Bond was at his worst in both "GOLDFINGER" and "SKYFALL".

chrisisall · February 2013

L Jones wrote:

Honestly, I thought that Bond was at his worst in both "GOLDFINGER" and "SKYFALL".

I gotcha on GF, but how was he so bad in SF (apart from ASSUMING his personal arsenal would be intact after he'd been declared dead)?

Moore Than · February 2013

chrisisall wrote:

L Jones wrote:

Honestly, I thought that Bond was at his worst in both "GOLDFINGER" and "SKYFALL".

I gotcha on GF, but how was he so bad in SF (apart from ASSUMING his personal arsenal would be intact after he'd been declared dead)?

He failed to retrieve the agent list, failed to save Severine, failed to shoot Raoul Silva when he had the chance on the London Undergound, and failed to save M......EPIC FAIL.

chrisisall · February 2013

Moore Than wrote:

He failed to retrieve the agent list, failed to save Severine, failed to shoot Raoul Silva when he had the chance on the London Undergound, and failed to save M......EPIC FAIL.

Oh. That. 8-)
Yeah, but he... lived. Yeah, kinda fail.

Napoleon Plural · February 2013

Bearing in mind Craig starred in a movie called The Mother, it puts a different spin on him whisking M away to his faraway abode.

You could have M going 'OO-Seven!' in a similar context, but from a wholly different perspective.

chrisisall · February 2013

no STOP!!!!

AlphaOmegaSin · February 2013

Whilst he does seem to be a bit more Clumsy in AVTAK, that is mainly down to Moore's Age.

Halcon · February 2013

Moore Than wrote:

chrisisall wrote:

L Jones wrote:

Honestly, I thought that Bond was at his worst in both "GOLDFINGER" and "SKYFALL".

I gotcha on GF, but how was he so bad in SF (apart from ASSUMING his personal arsenal would be intact after he'd been declared dead)?

He failed to retrieve the agent list, failed to save Severine, failed to shoot Raoul Silva when he had the chance on the London Undergound, and failed to save M......EPIC FAIL.

wow...yes.. epic fail indeed...

Silhouette Man · February 2013

I'd beg to differ - this film has more real spy work than any film since Moonraker, so I'd say that the opposite is true - Bond does a lot of spying in AVTAK!

Nick37 · February 2013

"I'd beg to differ - this film has more real spy work than any film since Moonraker, so I'd say that the opposite is true - Bond does a lot of spying in AVTAK!"

He does do a lot of spying, I merely question the method. Giving a sh*t-eating grin to a henchwoman after you've been busted sneaking a peek at something you shouldn't isn't exactly covert, and as I said before, I think it's hilarious that three minutes after meeting Bond, Zorin's telling Scarpine to "Make shuah Secuyity keeps a REAL close eye on HIM."

Silhouette Man · February 2013

Nick37 wrote:

"I'd beg to differ - this film has more real spy work than any film since Moonraker, so I'd say that the opposite is true - Bond does a lot of spying in AVTAK!"

He does do a lot of spying, I merely question the method. Giving a sh*t-eating grin to a henchwoman after you've been busted sneaking a peek at something you shouldn't isn't exactly covert, and as I said before, I think it's hilarious that three minutes after meeting Bond, Zorin's telling Scarpine to "Make shuah Secuyity keeps a REAL close eye on HIM."

Yes, but have a read of Andrew McNess's book James Bond in Our Sights - A Close Look At 'A View to A Kill' where he makes clear the producer/writers original intention of making Bond seem out of his depth (to even qote Zorin"- "Has James Bond finally met his match?" in Max Zorin and May Day - both steroid and hormone enhanced superhumans up against an older warhorse version of James Bond as played by Roger Moore. Zorin also talks of Bond "...still bungling in the dark" and of his superiors "...more likely covering up your embarrassing incompetence." Bond is on the back-foot for most of AVTAK and it's done intentionally - a bit like Bond in Raymond Benson's Doubleshot (2000) and like Bond in Skyfall (2012). So, from the off, it's made clear that AVTAK has something different to offer up to its regular audience as a James Bond film. This isn't a fault in the film - it's instead a virtue. See the attempted (and apparently successful, to Zorin and May Day, at least) assassination of Bond in the submerged Rolls Royce.

On AVTAK revisionism generally, see this excellent blog by my friend Andrew McNess:

http://jamesbondinoursights.blogspot.co.uk/

and this article in particular:

http://jamesbondinoursights.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/looking-at-sunset-with-death-on-horizon.html

Go and buy Andrew's book - he deals in great detail with many of the points that you raise here in this thread - who knows? he might even change your mind re AVTAK!

Nick37 · February 2013

Oh I could never hate "A View to a Kill". Christopher Walken alone makes it more fun than it should be. That does make sense. An aged James Bond against a psychotic genius. He's definitely not at his prime. LOL

Silhouette Man wrote:

Nick37 wrote:

"I'd beg to differ - this film has more real spy work than any film since Moonraker, so I'd say that the opposite is true - Bond does a lot of spying in AVTAK!"

He does do a lot of spying, I merely question the method. Giving a sh*t-eating grin to a henchwoman after you've been busted sneaking a peek at something you shouldn't isn't exactly covert, and as I said before, I think it's hilarious that three minutes after meeting Bond, Zorin's telling Scarpine to "Make shuah Secuyity keeps a REAL close eye on HIM."

Yes, but have a read of Andrew McNess's book James Bond in Our Sights - A Close Look At 'A View to A Kill' where he makes clear the producer/writers original intention of making Bond seem out of his depth (to even qote Zorin"- "Has James Bond finally met his match?" in Max Zorin and May Day - both steroid and hormone enhanced superhumans up against an older warhorse version of James Bond as played by Roger Moore. Zorin also talks of Bond "...still bungling in the dark" and of his superiors "...more likely covering up your embarrassing incompetence." Bond is on the back-foot for most of AVTAK and it's done intentionally - a bit like Bond in Raymond Benson's Doubleshot (2000) and like Bond in Skyfall (2012). So, from the off, it's made clear that AVTAK has something different to offer up to its regular audience as a James Bond film. This isn't a fault in the film - it's instead a virtue. See the attempted (and apparently successful, to Zorin and May Day, at least) assassination of Bond in the submerged Rolls Royce.

On AVTAK revisionism generally, see this excellent blog by my friend Andrew McNess:

http://jamesbondinoursights.blogspot.co.uk/

and this article in particular:

http://jamesbondinoursights.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/looking-at-sunset-with-death-on-horizon.html

Go and buy Andrew's book - he deals in great detail with many of the points that you raise here in this thread - who knows? he might even change your mind re AVTAK!

Silhouette Man · February 2013

Nick37 wrote:

Oh I could never hate "A View to a Kill". Christopher Walken alone makes it more fun than it should be. That does make sense. An aged James Bond against a psychotic genius. He's definitely not at his prime. LOL

Silhouette Man wrote:

Nick37 wrote:

"I'd beg to differ - this film has more real spy work than any film since Moonraker, so I'd say that the opposite is true - Bond does a lot of spying in AVTAK!"

He does do a lot of spying, I merely question the method. Giving a sh*t-eating grin to a henchwoman after you've been busted sneaking a peek at something you shouldn't isn't exactly covert, and as I said before, I think it's hilarious that three minutes after meeting Bond, Zorin's telling Scarpine to "Make shuah Secuyity keeps a REAL close eye on HIM."

Yes, but have a read of Andrew McNess's book James Bond in Our Sights - A Close Look At 'A View to A Kill' where he makes clear the producer/writers original intention of making Bond seem out of his depth (to even qote Zorin"- "Has James Bond finally met his match?" in Max Zorin and May Day - both steroid and hormone enhanced superhumans up against an older warhorse version of James Bond as played by Roger Moore. Zorin also talks of Bond "...still bungling in the dark" and of his superiors "...more likely covering up your embarrassing incompetence." Bond is on the back-foot for most of AVTAK and it's done intentionally - a bit like Bond in Raymond Benson's Doubleshot (2000) and like Bond in Skyfall (2012). So, from the off, it's made clear that AVTAK has something different to offer up to its regular audience as a James Bond film. This isn't a fault in the film - it's instead a virtue. See the attempted (and apparently successful, to Zorin and May Day, at least) assassination of Bond in the submerged Rolls Royce.

On AVTAK revisionism generally, see this excellent blog by my friend Andrew McNess:

http://jamesbondinoursights.blogspot.co.uk/

and this article in particular:

http://jamesbondinoursights.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/looking-at-sunset-with-death-on-horizon.html

Go and buy Andrew's book - he deals in great detail with many of the points that you raise here in this thread - who knows? he might even change your mind re AVTAK!

Yes, well I think it's what gives AVTAK such of an edge as a Bond film - like NSNA it's an older conception of James Bond displayed here and it's an interesting experiment on the part of the producer, director and scriptwriters. 'Cubby' Broccoli is even on record as having said that it was the best Bond film yet (but then he probably always said that!)

Nick37 · February 2013

"Yes, well I think it's what gives AVTAK such of an edge as a Bond film - like NSNA it's an older conception of James Bond displayed here and it's an interesting experiment on the part of the producer, director and scriptwriters. 'Cubby' Broccoli is even on record as having said that it was the best Bond film yet (but then he probably always said that!"

I wish they'd have included a scene or two referencing it, instead of leaving it for audience interpretation. They reference Connery's age at least a couple of times in NSNA, but other than the tagline of AVTAK, I only got the vibe that Bond was Bond. He looked older, sure, but there was never a moment where M said, "Sure you're up to it 007?" or something like that.

Is Bond the worst spy ever in "A View to a Kill"?

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