American Mafia
Ammo08
Missouri, USAPosts: 387MI6 Agent
I'm rereading Ian Flemings Bond books and although there are many themes, one stands out. He seems to have a fascination with the American Mafia, they show up everywhere.
He writes of them as if they are all powerful but he also uses some mean stereotypes to write about them...
Did (Does) England have similar crime families or was this the influence of American movies?
While I'm at it, can someone suggest any books on life in the UK from the end of WWII to the 60s or so? English novels and movies from that period sometimes seem awfully dark, even the humor is dark.
He writes of them as if they are all powerful but he also uses some mean stereotypes to write about them...
Did (Does) England have similar crime families or was this the influence of American movies?
While I'm at it, can someone suggest any books on life in the UK from the end of WWII to the 60s or so? English novels and movies from that period sometimes seem awfully dark, even the humor is dark.
"I don't know if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or imbeciles who mean it."-Mark Twain
'Just because nobody complains doesn't mean all parachutes are perfect.'- Benny Hill (1924-1992)
'Just because nobody complains doesn't mean all parachutes are perfect.'- Benny Hill (1924-1992)
Comments
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwLBaiWJUA0
Here's a typical Mad Frankie Fraser story:
"Goes around a story that I allegedly pulled a guy's teeth out with pliers. I only wished it'd been true, 'cause at least when I was doin' my twenty years, wouldn't it have been lovely lying in my cell and going, 'Oh, what a good job I made of that back molar!'. See this You Tube video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwLBaiWJUA0
I assume that you are referring to the American gangsters in Live and Let Die, Diamonds Are Forever, Goldfinger, The Spy Who Loved Me and The Man with the Golden Gun?
These are often refereed to as the lesser James Bond villains out there in Bond's universe and not even James Bond treats them as very credible - see especially DAF in this regard.
Could you tell us more about your thoughts on this theme - expand on your OP?
I think one could write a very interesting article on Ian Fleming and his writings on and experience of American Gangsterism - I've dabbled a little bit in that area myself.
I grew up in Memphis and it was no secret that the Family ran things, at least in large parts of the city; I'm still not so sure they don't.
I'm sure Fleming was writing for an American audience as well as English, Australian etc so he would put those type of references in there.
I remember reading about the hangman Pierrepoint and it mentions that he executed a British mobster who last words were "Cheerio!" I wasn't sure if "mobster" meant the same thing over there as here; after all, "we are one people separated by language." (a quote from Sir Winston I believe.)
I'm pretty well read on English history but I really have a gap in the late 40s and 50s, so I appreciate the leads on the books.
The Mafia has had a profound influence on American history, especially in large urban areas on the east coast, New Orleans and the upper midwest. Most mob members were Italian, but many other ethnic groups made their way up to the top. The Irish, Eastern Europeans, various nationalities of Jews all ran majobr crime families at one time or another in our history. Now it seems that the Russians have some major criminal activities going on in the US now.
Were your crime families home grown of Anglo-Saxon descent or did the Italians make a beach head in England as well?
'Just because nobody complains doesn't mean all parachutes are perfect.'- Benny Hill (1924-1992)
people who did know them ,refered to them as the twins, Eddie is now sadly passed on ,but he always used to talk about
their run ins with the Malts (Maltese)but listening to his many stories over the years,it would seem that this branch of British gangsterism was born out of the times ,poverty unemployment the war ect .There is a lovely picture of Eddie in a book by Laurie o leary,
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he told me that on the night of the preview he got up and walked out
because Mrs Kray (twins mum) swore ,he said that women said a sear word
all her life ,and he was saddend by the film makers depiction of her swearing
Fleming had his own gangster's organisations such as the Spangled Mob, the Detroit Purple gang etc. that go all of the way from DAF to TMWTGG. As you say, ammo08, a very interesting, yet overlooked, aspect/theme of Ian Fleming's original James Bond novels. I'd really like to make good on that oversight in an article examining that theme at some point.
There's a great book called The Gangs of New Orleans by Herbert Asbury that I bought recently (he also wrote the books The Gangs of New York and The Gangs of Chicago, The Barbary Coast: An Informal History of the San Francisco Underworld) - it was a reprint from 2004 but it was originally published in 1936 - you should get yourself a copy of that book, too. It wold fit in quite well with the film and novel versions of LALD. Might just be up your street, as we say here in the UK.
Another interesting fact about the Italian Mafia is that the fascist dictator Benito Mussolini nearly had the Mafia wiped out in Italy by the time of his fall from power in July 1943. The Americans used the Mafia to help them placate the civilian population and as anti-fascist resistance and so post-war the Mafia thrived again. One of the few good things that Mussolini did in fact do, only for it to be undone by the Allies.
In OHMSS novel and film, Bond of course comes up against the Union Corse - a French form of the Mafia headed by Marc Ange Draco, whom Raymond Benson understandably made a villain in his much later continuation Bond novel Never Dream of Dying (2001).
Fleming met 'Lucky' Luciano in Italy when he was on his wiorld tour for Thrilling Cities (1963). Raymond Chandler wanted to werite a play about him.
My "uncles" all hated Mussolini, it wasn't until I got older that I understood why.
I notice something new in the Bond books every time I read them. I would like to have met Ian Fleming and had a drink with him....
I'm also of the mind that the storyline for The Spy Who loved Me would have made an excellent movie. It's one of the most unique of all the Bond novels.
'Just because nobody complains doesn't mean all parachutes are perfect.'- Benny Hill (1924-1992)
Yeah, it's a great first half hour or so of a Bond movie. Ann Hathaway as Vesper, gets into trouble in a motel then Craig's Bond shows up. Turns out the hoodlums are after her because of some secret knowledge she has, and it all kicks off.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
http://www.madfrankiefraser.co.uk/frankiefraser.htm
He's one of the last surviving elements from the 1930s East End London gangsters.
And then see Chris Morris make a fool out of him on Brass Eye:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uyvrvPTP24&feature=player_detailpage#t=429s
Geat to see one of CBn's greatest posters here on AJB, Revelator. You're very welcome here.
On BrassEye - "Mad as a lorry" - hilarious! I think there's probably more stuff on 'Mad' Frankie Fraser on BrassEye too from what I've read. Off the scale of anger!
I do so hate the glorification of violence that people like 'Mad' Frankie Fraser and others peddle in. This "celebrity" brutally murder c. 43 people and he glories in this and makes light of it all. He's surely got a day of reckoning coming, which is why it's indeed refreshing to see him be made a fool out of by the great Chris Morris. These gangster-types take themselves so seriously. There's no celebrity in gangland violence and torture. See this video for more "classic" 'Mad' Frankie Fraser being presented as a celebrity and gangster legend:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzYo_IVq00w
Thanks for the kind words Silhouette Man. You're right, Fraser briefly appears earlier in the episode (at the 4:05 mark in the video I linked to). I agree with you on how pathetic it is to celebrate such gangsters. Fleming seemed somewhat susceptible to their allure when he wrote about meeting Lucky Luciano in Thrilling Cities, though he avoided being as ludicrously sympathetic toward him as Raymond Chandler.
As for the mafia, I recall that Fleming originally made them the villains of that scripts that eventually became Thunderball. It's not surprising that he changed his mind about that.
Yes, I forgot about the TB script - the one where Bond introduces himself. I think there's more details on it in the book The James Bond Films by Steven Jay Rubin.
As a well-travelled Brit Fleming was, I am only guessing that life in America lent a generous measure of awe to Fleming, which to him was the golden frontier so much so that even the criminal elements seemed exotic, because there is no significant mention of criminal enterprise in the UK. Another theory I have about Fleming's interests in crime might have roots in the much heralded activities of the American mob during Prohibition, finding interesting parallels and the seeds for gripping plots in the then rising International narcotics trade. Of course, there's also the gaming and gambling aspect of American vice that evidently grabbed his fancy.
Also interesting to note is how Fleming sometimes linked narcotics and smuggling with geo-political plots in a cold war setting, compared to the different strain of criminal activities done by SPECTRE, e.g., terrorism and extortion vs. narcotics and smuggling. My theory is that Fleming was running out of plots and perhaps was inspired to lend "worthwhile" motivations (e.g., profits vs. ideologies) for terrorism that had just become a rising, post-war phenomenon, hence Blofeld and SPECTRE; because of this, I think that those stories, or at least the villain's plots that were literally half-baked in reality, lost some credibility if we are to compare the natures of these plots, the blackmailing of governments (one meeliyon dollars, bwuhahaha!) that seems to be too fantastic vs. the immediate, routine realization of profits via smuggling and narcotics distribution that actually occurs in the real world. Although the Blofeld trilogy novels are excellently written, I think that their respective plots could have been more "adult."
I too am looking at 'Risico' at the moment for a quite interestibng piece, I hope, on James Bond and the War on Drugs - the elements were laid in place in these short stories. I think too that the short stories was where the literary Bond often met much more with reality in the crucible of a story of ideas. Sometimes this also spilled over into the novels - see Goldfinger and The Spy Who Loved Me for best examples of this.
Y'know, I think you're on to something there, SM. Not something that is commonly discussed. There is definitely some mining to be done in this region; the short story format allowed Our Founder to experiment in ways that he couldn't or wouldn't do in a novel (the most obvious example being QoS and OP- FYEO, TLD, R, being capable of expansion into a full-length adventure which he chose not to do, while THL, FAVTAK and TPOAL clearly could go no further).
Thank you, SM. Today I began listening to the audio version of DAF (read by David Rintoul, a very nice delivery) and though I only got to chapter 4, I'm enjoying all the trappings of American organized crime.
Yes, there could be some interesting stuff written on the mostly overlooked short stories by Ian Fleming - especially those that you mention there. There's much more there than just the potential titles of the next few James Bond films.
Yes, I will have to have a good look over DAF the novel again - it's been way too long since I read it and it's time a serious article was written on the role of American Gangsterism in the James Bond novels of Ian Fleming.
I've just discovered recently (listening to Elvis Presley's 'Jailhouse Rock') that the Detroit Purple Gang were actually real. I'd always simply just assumed that Ian Fleming invented them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Purple_Gang