Ian Fleming casual racism
jamesm123
LondonPosts: 184MI6 Agent
I've just re-read the FYEO collection and was astonished by some of the racism, specifically the word beginning with the letter N. I remember one of the chapters from LALD has an unfortunate title and in one of the other novels (is it Thunderball or Moonraker) Bond is actually told off for using the N word. I know Fleming lived in Jamaica and must have been used to a mix of different people.
The reason it confuses me is my family lived in the Bahamas in the 60's which was a mostly Black community and they were/are never derogatory about it. I think it's too easy to say "oh it was the times/olden days" etc. Maybe Fleming was really just a snob and a bit of a racist?
The reason it confuses me is my family lived in the Bahamas in the 60's which was a mostly Black community and they were/are never derogatory about it. I think it's too easy to say "oh it was the times/olden days" etc. Maybe Fleming was really just a snob and a bit of a racist?
Comments
I wouldn't want to see them edited to remove the content, because then in some small way we'd be erasing the past.
Agreed on that. Yes, racism has come up many times over the years on these Bond websites and their discussions. They did in fact "erase the past" when LALD and DAF were published in the United States - just see the Berkeley 'Race Edits' released there - the novels were not actually publishede in the United States in their complete form until 2002 with the Penguin reprints. See my related article here for more details on the editing, censoring and banning of the James Bond novels:
http://thebondologistblog.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/james-bond-novels-that-were-edited.html
in dam busters, wasnt his chocolate lab called the dreadfull n word ?
im sure Todd being an officer and a gentleman would have been utterly dismayed
at the use of it but unfortunatley i suppose thats how it was and im glad
we have moved on somewhat
I don't think he needs excused.
Like I said people need to remember that this was a different time. Rather than condemning the man, we need to understand that our perceptions have changed over the decades. Fleming came from a time where this sort of thinking was acceptable, and we need to understand that when we read the novels.
It doesn't mean we all need to turn into raving racists, we can just say "People were misguided back then" and move on. We cannot judge Fleming by modern standards.
Actually if you read Ken Follet's intro to the 2007 Folio edition of LALD he says:
Politically, Fleming is a conservative in all respects but one. His attitude to race lies on the far left of fifties liberalism.(Page xiv - Live Let and Let Die, Introduction - Copyright by Ken Follet, 2007)
Interesting quote which suggests the critical line on Fleming and casual racism may have been wrong. Fleming had black servants at Goldeneye in those colonial days, after all.
Sorry, I'm not quite sure I understand your comment. Are you saying Fleming was racist for having black staff at Goldeneye or was not racist because he hired black staff at Goldeneye?
I'm saying he was not racist for hiring black staff. Thought the comment was pretty clear myself.
While I do believe that Fleming was likely less racist than many people of his class at that time, I'm afraid that his hiring of Violet can't be interpreted as an indication that Fleming wasn't racist. Goldeneye was in Jamaica, Violet was Jamaican. Even rampant racists living in Jamaica (or elsewhere in the West Indies or Africa) at the time - and there were many - hired locals as domestic staff and in most cases treated them well. It's an inconclusive indication in my opinion.
Yes, I suspect you're right. I guess I just want to see Ian Fleming as the kindly man I think that he really was at heart. I don't like him tarred with the brush of racism and feel the need to defend him somewhat. -{
I'm with you, SM. Having read and loved his books repeatedly for more years than I care to mention, I also feel the need to support him, though times have changed and his writing is often cringeworthy (esp LALD).
I think there is some unfairness to Fleming. Stephen King wrote "The Running Man" and no one has ever accused him of being a racist for the way the n-word is thrown around in the novel. I am not a racist but the use of the n-word in writing is appropriate given its use in today's society. As for Fleming's views on race; noting that some one appears to be Jewish or using 'black' dialect is an honest appraisal. I think it was in the "Grapes of Wrath" where poor white people were 'white' dialect portrayed. The writer is merely painting a picture.
Also, clearly Americans, other than Tiffany Case and Felix Leiter, are not Bond's favorite people. However, I am not offended by it.
...and Fleming was very, very fond of all things American. He'd stop there whenever he went to/from Jamaica (which was annually at least) and at any other opportunity that arose. So any criticism of Americans in the books - and there certainly is - really wasn't a reflection of his own taste and opinion.
Yes, but that's reverse racism against whites - that doesn't count, I guess.
Although wasn't this from the Movie, so not really Fleming ?
I always regarded it more as Street slang.
And, Yes anyone can be Racist, was it not Austin Powers Father who said.
http://youtu.be/QJ882QYzr-M
"There are only two things I can't stand in this world. People who are intolerant of
other people's cultures, .................................................... and the Dutch! "
for centuries, I think we can put up with a few Names.
Quite. Us Limey pommie honkies have a lot to answer for!
That Empire didn't build itself, you know.
(I didn't actually know what Honkie meant untill a few years ago.
I'm so Bloody Innocent, or Stupid. )
I myself only looked it up a few days ago. I'd never known it was an early 1970s term of abuse against whites - a bit before my time, of course. So don't be too hard on yourself, TP.
I don't recall any particularly racist passages in FYEO. Are you sure it's not LALD you're thinking of? The N word was used far more casually back then (and even farther back--in Huckleberry Finn it's synonymous with Black) and even more casually in Britain than in America--Agatha Christie's Ten Little Indians was originally titled Ten Little N****** and the word was casually dropped on British television into the 1970s (the Major says it in an episode of Fawlty Towers).
The Chapter title refers to a place name, and though informal, I presume Fleming didn't make it up.
As for the telling off, here is the passage in question, from Diamonds Are Forever:
As we see above, as an Englishman Bond (and Fleming) feels farther from the "coloured problem" and tend to more casually drop racial epithets that were becoming progressively more taboo in the U.S. Bond's "natural affection for coloured people" is obviously of the patronizing sort, but his racial attitudes are not radically beyond the pale of his creator's time and class. Still, one wishes Fleming had been sensitive enough about color to not use the concept as the butt of a joke.
Was Fleming not "an especially nice chap"? His attitudes on race and gender are not easy-reading for modern audiences, and Sean Connery thought he was a snob. But Connery also thought he was great company, and Fleming's co-workers spoke glowingly of him as an excellent boss. The balance seems to be positive. I would certainly like to have met him.
That DAF passage quoted above was actually cut altogether from the American edition of the novel and only appears in the UK edition. As for the 'Nigger Heaven' chapter title, Fleming did not in fact make that up, but it was rather the title of a book by Carl van Vechten, a 1928 novel that was part of the 'Harlem Renaissance' literary movement. It has been a controversial book title even from the date of its publication and one can of course understand why. So Fleming is not responsible for this title. I found the book in a second-hand shop in 2008; though this fact about the novel seems not to be very well known.
Negress is the female version of the male Negro, a now dated/offensive term for a black person.