Most Flemingesque James Bond movies after 1969

perdogg · April 2013

This is the list in ascending order of the most flemingesque James Bond movies after 1969 (exception "You Only Live Twice").

The movies included were those only that were not a part of the Fleming Canon, required supplemental scripting, or total different from the original. The criteria is only "flemingesque" it has nothing to do whether the film was good or bad.

Criteria:

1. Whether the movie is James Bond Centric
2. Whether the movie properly conveyed Bond's Manichean nature
3. Use of Fleming material successfully - bringing Fleming not just Bond to the screen.
4. The Solitary nature of Bond
5. Whether the Male identity of Bond is preserved.

Here we go:

18. Skyfall (least)
17. Quantum of Solace
16. Die Another Day
15. Tomorrow Never Dies
14. Licence to Kill
13. Diamonds Are Forever
12. Moonraker
11. The Spy who Loved me
10. Casino Royale
9. The Man with the Golden Gun
8. Live and Let Die
7. You Only Live Twice
6. Goldeneye
5. The World is Not Enough
4. The Living Daylights
3. A View To a Kill
2. Octopussy
1. For Your Eyes Only (most)

Sir James Moloney · April 2013

How did you decide upon your criteria and why did you choose them rather than, for example, The Fleming Sweep or depictions of wealth and luxury?

Dutchfinger · April 2013

Funny thing, For Your Eyes Only also came to my mind first when I saw the thread title.
I find it hard to follow your criteria when you rank Moonraker as more flemingesque than Licence To Kill though...

Silhouette Man · April 2013

Yes, a strange list if I may be so bold as to say, especially for the Flemingeque elements in the James Bond films!

Number24 · April 2013

perdogg wrote:

This is the list in ascending order of the most flemingesque James Bond movies after 1969 (exception "You Only Live Twice").

The movies included were those only that were not a part of the Fleming Canon, required supplemental scripting, or total different from the original. The criteria is only "flemingesque" it has nothing to do whether the film was good or bad.

Criteria:

1. Whether the movie is James Bond Centric
2. Whether the movie properly conveyed Bond's Manichean nature
3. Use of Fleming material successfully - bringing Fleming not just Bond to the screen.
4. The Solitary nature of Bond
5. Whether the Male identity of Bond is preserved.

Here we go:

18. Skyfall (least)
17. Quantum of Solace
16. Die Another Day
15. Tomorrow Never Dies
14. Licence to Kill
13. Diamonds Are Forever
12. Moonraker
11. The Spy who Loved me
10. Casino Royale
9. The Man with the Golden Gun
8. Live and Let Die
7. You Only Live Twice
6. Goldeneye
5. The World is Not Enough
4. The Living Daylights
3. A View To a Kill
2. Octopussy
1. For Your Eyes Only (most)

Your top three are among my bottom five

)

And Moonraker more flemingesque than Casino Royale ?:)

I would say
Casino Royale and Dalton's movie are good contenders.

chrisisall · April 2013

I'll just list the one that I feel ARE Flemingesque & leave the others out altogether:

The World is Not Enough (least)
You Only Live Twice
Casino Royale
Goldeneye
Licence to Kill
The Living Daylights (most)

AlphaOmegaSin · April 2013

Mine are -

For your Eyes only
License to Kill
Live and let die

Silhouette Man · April 2013

Most Flemingesque:

For Your Eyes Only
Licence to Kill
The Living Daylights
Casino Royale
Skyfall
Quantum of Solace
Octopussy
The Man with the Golden Gun
Live and Let Die
A View to A Kill

perdogg · April 2013

Silhouette Man wrote:

Yes, a strange list if I may be so bold as to say, especially for the Flemingeque elements in the James Bond films!

The problem with LTK was that Bond was derelict in duty by refusing to go to Turkey, instead carrying out his one man revenge against Sanchez. In all of the novels, Bond always put his personal reservations aside and carried out his duty. This would never have been tolerated by Fleming.

Skyfall - Was something that never would have been recognized as Fleming because it dismissed so many of the fundamental Bond elements found in Fleming.

Same with QoS.

The problem I had with Casino Royale was that Bond was on his very first mission as a 00 agent, as opposed to the novel where he had been an 00-agent for at least ten years. Remember he earned his 00 status prior to US involvement in WW2, therefore he was a 00-agent since 1941. I doubt Bond falling in love on his first mission would be "Flemingesque" . The rest of the modernize script was fair.

Die Another Day was a hot mess. TND, Bond following Wai Lin around like a puppy dog in Saigon was more apt for Hangover II.

Diamonds are Forever showed no Fleming qualities in Connery, just too old.

Despite the drastic scripts in Moonraker and The Spy Who Loved Me Moore demonstrated the independent nature of the Fleming novels.

I stand by the top 6.

Firemass · April 2013

yeah, I was going to inquire why some fans consider License to Kill to be very Fleming-esque? In the short story FYEO Bond mentions "Before going out on revenge, you first dig two graves."

LTK seems to throw that concept away completely. Aside from Leiter's shark injury, does LTK contain any Fleming elements?

Silhouette Man · April 2013

perdogg wrote:

Silhouette Man wrote:

Yes, a strange list if I may be so bold as to say, especially for the Flemingeque elements in the James Bond films!

The problem with LTK was that Bond was derelict in duty by refusing to go to Turkey, instead carrying out his one man revenge against Sanchez. In all of the novels, Bond always put his personal reservations aside and carried out his duty. This would never have been tolerated by Fleming.

Skyfall - Was something that never would have been recognized as Fleming because it dismissed so many of the fundamental Bond elements found in Fleming.

Same with QoS.

The problem I had with Casino Royale was that Bond was on his very first mission as a 00 agent, as opposed to the novel where he had been an 00-agent for at least ten years. Remember he earned his 00 status prior to US involvement in WW2, therefore he was a 00-agent since 1941. I doubt Bond falling in love on his first mission would be "Flemingesque" . The rest of the modernize script was fair.

Die Another Day was a hot mess. TND, Bond following Wai Lin around like a puppy dog in Saigon was more apt for Hangover II.

Diamonds are Forever showed no Fleming qualities in Connery, just too old.

Despite the drastic scripts in Moonraker and The Spy Who Loved Me Moore demonstrated the independent nature of the Fleming novels.

I stand by the top 6.

Yes, I've made that pont about Casino Royale myself - it seems that this vital point was missed by everyone from the commentators to the producers, director and screenwriters of Casino Royale - James Bond was certainly no rookie agent in that novel; it just so happened that it was the first mission that Ian Fleming Dr Watson-like reported in 1952 at Goldeneye in Jamaica. This is a fact, but at lot of people at the time and since seem to have missed this!

On LTK, I've just recently been thinking about the defining characteristics of each actor to take the James Bond role - from Connery to Craig, for the purposes of some future content on my blog. For me, the defining characteristic of the Timothy Dalton era and version of James Bond was his damned impertinence in the face of authority and his subordinate streak in both the films he appears in as Bond - TLD and LTK. For example, Dalton represents (for me) the James Bond of the jaded malaise of the later Fleming novels - the one who was going to resign at not being able to find Blofeld in the OHMSS novel (Lazenby did this in the film version too) and the Bond who bungled two missions at the start of YOLT, who went all out for revenge in his separate mission for the Japanese in YOLT when he found that their shared quarry actually happened to be none other than Irma Bunt and Ernst Stavro Blofeld, who blasted Tracy Bond into eternity. It's the Bond of the short story 'The Living Daylghts' where Captain Sender chides Bond for failing deliberately to kill the female cellist "Trigger". Bond makes the statement to the effect that if he fires him he'll thank M for it. This is the same in the first Dalton film. There's also a streak of LALD the novel in LTK the film, as well as Fleming's Mlton Krest character and his 'Corrector' whip in 'The Hildebrand Rarity'. In LALD the novel there was the revenge element of getting back at those who had his best friend and CIA partner maul;ed by a shark and left for dead - this is very much the story of a personal vendetta of vengeance for Leiter, as well as being a more general vendetta against that fabled Soviet organ of terror, SMERSH.

Is that little lot enough to convince you that Dalton, TLD and LTK were all Flemingesque?

I do hope so, but if not, please come back to me. I'm here all week.

-{

perdogg · April 2013

Silhouette Man wrote:

perdogg wrote:

Silhouette Man wrote:

Yes, a strange list if I may be so bold as to say, especially for the Flemingeque elements in the James Bond films!

The problem with LTK was that Bond was derelict in duty by refusing to go to Turkey, instead carrying out his one man revenge against Sanchez. In all of the novels, Bond always put his personal reservations aside and carried out his duty. This would never have been tolerated by Fleming.

Skyfall - Was something that never would have been recognized as Fleming because it dismissed so many of the fundamental Bond elements found in Fleming.

Same with QoS.

The problem I had with Casino Royale was that Bond was on his very first mission as a 00 agent, as opposed to the novel where he had been an 00-agent for at least ten years. Remember he earned his 00 status prior to US involvement in WW2, therefore he was a 00-agent since 1941. I doubt Bond falling in love on his first mission would be "Flemingesque" . The rest of the modernize script was fair.

Die Another Day was a hot mess. TND, Bond following Wai Lin around like a puppy dog in Saigon was more apt for Hangover II.

Diamonds are Forever showed no Fleming qualities in Connery, just too old.

Despite the drastic scripts in Moonraker and The Spy Who Loved Me Moore demonstrated the independent nature of the Fleming novels.

I stand by the top 6.

Yes, I've made that pont about Casino Royale myself - it seems that this vital point was missed by everyone from the commentators to the producers, director and screenwriters of Casino Royale - James Bond was certainly no rookie agent in that novel; it just so happened that it was the first mission that Ian Fleming Dr Watson-like reported in 1952 at Goldeneye in Jamaica. This is a fact, but at lot of people at the time and since seem to have missed this!

On LTK, I've just recently been thinking abot the defining characteristics of each actor to take the James Bond role - from Connery to Craig, for the purposes of some fuyture content on my blog. For me, the defining characteristic of the Timothy Dalton era and version of James Bond was his damned impertiinence in the face of authority and his subordinate streak in both the films he appears in as Bond - TLD and LTK. For example, Dalton represents (for me) the James Bond of the jaded malaise of the later Flemng novels - the one who was going to resign at not being able to find Blofeld in the OHMSS novel (Lazenby did this in the film version too) and the Bond who bungled two missions at the start of YOLT, who went all out for revenge in his separate mission for the Japanese in YOLT when he found that their shared quarry actually happened to be none other than Irma Bunt and Ernsat Stavro Blofeld, who blasted Tracy Bond into eternity. It's the Bond of the short story 'The Living Daylghts' where Captain Sender chides Bond for failng deliberately to kill the female celloist "Trigger". Bond makews the statementr to the effect that if he fires him he'll thank M for it. This is the same in the first Dalton film. There's also a streak of LALD the novel in LTK the film, as well as Fleming's Mlton Krest character and his 'Corrector' whip in 'The Hildebrand Rarity'. In LALD the novel there was the revenge element of getting back at those who had his best friend and CIA partner maul;ed by a shark and left for dead - this is very much the story of a personal vendetta of vengeance for Leiter, as well as being a more general vendetta against that fabled Soviet organ of terror, SMERSH.

Is that little lot enough to convince you that Dalton, TLD ansd LTK were all Flemingesque?

I do hope so, but if not, please come back to me. I'm here all week. -{

I did put TLD at number 4. In Fact the opening scene in Bratislava jumped right out of the page.

You make valid points regarding LTK and I have also recognized the qualities taken from novel, including the assassination attempt as described in the novel Casino Royale.

However, I felt that this wasn't in any reaction the malaise of the later novels, but Cubby's desire to copy "Lethal Weapon". Your malaise might even have come across that way, like the Flemingesque qualities of TWINE.

The Dalton-Bond does not come across as the thinking Bond we saw in TLD and in the novel, but rather almost insane in a movie in which no one dies the same way.

)

This quality made the movie come across as being contrived.

Silhouette Man · April 2013

I should perhaps have added above that the novel Goldfinger shows a James Bond going through a malaise and it's mid-term Fleming, so to speak. It's just that this element of the James Bond character seemed to become much more prominent in the later Fleming Bond novels of the post-1959 period where Fleming began to experiment more with the character construct that is James Bond 007.

Blackleiter · April 2013

I don't understand why Casino Royale couldn't be considered Flemingesque just because the Bond of the film version is just earning his "00" status. Aren't there enough other elements in the film to make it Flemingesque? Certainly Flemingesque doesn't mean "exactly like the novel", does it?

perdogg wrote:

Silhouette Man wrote:

Yes, a strange list if I may be so bold as to say, especially for the Flemingeque elements in the James Bond films!

The problem with LTK was that Bond was derelict in duty by refusing to go to Turkey, instead carrying out his one man revenge against Sanchez. In all of the novels, Bond always put his personal reservations aside and carried out his duty. This would never have been tolerated by Fleming.

Skyfall - Was something that never would have been recognized as Fleming because it dismissed so many of the fundamental Bond elements found in Fleming.

Same with QoS.

The problem I had with Casino Royale was that Bond was on his very first mission as a 00 agent, as opposed to the novel where he had been an 00-agent for at least ten years. Remember he earned his 00 status prior to US involvement in WW2, therefore he was a 00-agent since 1941. I doubt Bond falling in love on his first mission would be "Flemingesque" . The rest of the modernize script was fair.

Die Another Day was a hot mess. TND, Bond following Wai Lin around like a puppy dog in Saigon was more apt for Hangover II.

Diamonds are Forever showed no Fleming qualities in Connery, just too old.

Despite the drastic scripts in Moonraker and The Spy Who Loved Me Moore demonstrated the independent nature of the Fleming novels.

I stand by the top 6.

perdogg · April 2013

Blackleiter wrote:

I don't understand why Casino Royale couldn't be considered Flemingesque just because the Bond of the film version is just earning his "00" status. Aren't there enough other elements in the film to make it Flemingesque? Certainly Flemingesque doesn't mean "exactly like the novel", does it?

I had no trouble with a rookie Bond, however, the thing that bothers me the most was the contrived love story between Bond and Vesper in the movie. It appeared contrived because Bond was his first mission. One could understand it more in the novel. There are so many inherit risks in have a rookie Bond, a Cubby was quoted in the NYT as documented in The Making of The Living Daylights.

This is why the Bond trend is troubling. We are seeing the creative take a back seat to the "origins of Bond" and in Skyfall we had "the origins of Moneypenny". The stuff we have been seeing in X-men and Batman.

chrisisall · April 2013

perdogg wrote:

This is why the Bond trend is troubling. We are seeing the creative take a back seat to the "origins of Bond" and in Skyfall we had "the origins of Moneypenny". The stuff we have been seeing in X-men and Batman.

I get your point here.

Firemass · April 2013

Mark O'Connell pointed out an interesting detail about the film Dr. No: "For a series that likes to suggest further drama before and after the credits roll, Dr. No quickly alludes to Bond's already "ten year" occupancy as a Double-O agent, Bernard Lee's M and Lois Maxwell's Moneypenny are pitched as habitual returnees in their very first scenes- "forget the usual repartee" [...] It tellsus in no uncertain terms how this is not just how these films are going to be, but that they might have already been doing it." from Catching Bullets-Memoirs of a Bond fan

Anyway just thought I'd mention it since it seems relevant to your discussion about Casino Royale.

chrisisall · April 2013

Firemass wrote:

Anyway just thought I'd mention it since it seems relevant to your discussion about Casino Royale.

Yeah, it is. Guess I'm not a big fan of the idea of a 38 year old 'rookie' Bond just now earning his 00 rank, but Campbell did the best he could with it. It's why I like QOS so much better- you can ignore all the 'origin' nonsense.

Blackleiter · April 2013

I guess I'm out here alone on a limb, but the origin stuff didn't bother me at all. But now that it's done I'm looking forward to seeing Bond on a mission, without the baggage of how Bond became Bond. I hope they don't blow it.

chrisisall · April 2013

Blackleiter wrote:

But now that it's done I'm looking forward to seeing Bond on a mission, without the baggage of how Bond became Bond. I hope they don't blow it.

No, now we'll get a 'Moneypenny goes out in the field to help Bond and gets killed prompting a Now-it's-REALLY Personal' story.
And I PRAY that I'm wrong here.

FranzSanchez'sIguana · April 2013

Most Flemingesque(IMO)(In no particular order):

For Your Eyes Only
Licence to Kill
Casino Royale
The World Is Not Enough
The Living Daylights
Skyfall
Goldeneye
Quantum Of Solace
The Spy Who Loved Me
A View To A Kill
Octopussy

Blackleiter · April 2013

I'm betting you're wrong.

chrisisall wrote:

Blackleiter wrote:

But now that it's done I'm looking forward to seeing Bond on a mission, without the baggage of how Bond became Bond. I hope they don't blow it.

No, now we'll get a 'Moneypenny goes out in the field to help Bond and gets killed prompting a Now-it's-REALLY Personal' story.
And I PRAY that I'm wrong here.

Silhouette Man · April 2013

perdogg wrote:

Blackleiter wrote:

I don't understand why Casino Royale couldn't be considered Flemingesque just because the Bond of the film version is just earning his "00" status. Aren't there enough other elements in the film to make it Flemingesque? Certainly Flemingesque doesn't mean "exactly like the novel", does it?

I had no trouble with a rookie Bond, however, the thing that bothers me the most was the contrived love story between Bond and Vesper in the movie. It appeared contrived because Bond was his first mission. One could understand it more in the novel. There are so many inherit risks in have a rookie Bond, a Cubby was quoted in the NYT as documented in The Making of The Living Daylights.

This is why the Bond trend is troubling. We are seeing the creative take a back seat to the "origins of Bond" and in Skyfall we had "the origins of Moneypenny". The stuff we have been seeing in X-men and Batman.

Yes, well origin stories are really very "in" at the moment in many different film franchises - it is from here that we learn the future direction of James Bond and other characters and also their motivation.

perdogg · April 2013

Silhouette Man wrote:

Yes, well origin stories are really very "in" at the moment in many different film franchises - it is from here that we learn the future direction of James Bond and other characters and also their motivation.

I am still wondering what relevance 'Skyfall' had in the movie. We see Bond undergoing a psychological profile in which Skyfall is brought up causing a reaction. Wasn't Bond subjected to this when he was selected for the 00 program?

Silhouette Man · April 2013

perdogg wrote:

Silhouette Man wrote:

Yes, well origin stories are really very "in" at the moment in many different film franchises - it is from here that we learn the future direction of James Bond and other characters and also their motivation.

I am still wondering what relevance 'Skyfall' had in the movie. We see Bond undergoing a psychological profile in which Skyfall is brought up causing a reaction. Wasn't Bond subjected to this when he was selected for the 00 program?

I don't know. I've so far onlty seen the film once in the cinema. When I bget time, I really need to watch it on DVD, as I've had the DVD for ages. I suspect a la Alec Trevelyan in GoldenEye, Bond had background checks on his suitability as a double-O agent. Skyfall is of course a construct of the films; it has no basis in the original Fleming novels and short stories, though I guess it does fit with what little we know of James Bond's upbringing and background in general. -{

CmdrAtticus · April 2013

My list in descending order:
1. Casino Royale
2. The Living Daylights
3. License to Kill
4. Skyfall
5. Goldeneye
6. For Your Eyes Only
7. Octopussy
8. The World Is Not Enough
9. Die Another Day
10. Quantum of Solace

I understand the reaction towards making Craig a new 00 and it being his first job. However, the whole plot of Le Chiffre being the villain and Vesper and the card game and Bond's torture and recovery are still from Fleming. For me it was just great finally seeing a serious version of his novel on the screen and Bond be treated as a real agent in a real plot again. The other films I put in their particular order is in regards to how realistic their plots are in relation to how Fleming would have viewed them. TLD to me came across as a very real, Fleming like plot. LTK was obviously a version of TMWTGG with the Bond revenging Leiter and other scenes lifted from LALD and The Hildebrand Rarity - that was all Fleming for me, as well as the scenes taking place in and under the Caribbean waters and Bond infiltrating Sanchez's
organization. Skyfall had elements of YOLT and TWMTGG (Bond "dies" and comes back) and even the last act - it reminded me of Bond and Vivien taking a stand in those burning cabins against the gangsters in TSWLM. Goldeneye
had very Fleming like qualities - the Russian characters really exist (black market gangsters, military and bureacrats); Onatoppe and her kinkiness was very Fleming like in her bizarre twisted character; an EMP weapon is not science fiction. FYEO - plot lifted right from the story, with the coding device lifted from FRWL and the two crime bosses from Risisco - all Fleming. OPUSSY - Faberge egg lifted out of his "Property of a Lady", use of Soviets vs. West and a nuclear bomb threat starting WWIII combined with jewelry smuggling - was very Fleming like for me. I even could see Fleming using a European circus theme in a novel though he never did (possibly a Russian circus in a plot).
TWINE -The terrorist villain and his abnormalities along with the oil pipeline and nuclear blast near Istanbul plot seemed very Fleming to me. I put DAD near the bottom because from the beginning of the film up till the invisible car an onwards seemed Fleming like to me, but then they went back to the whole non Fleming DAF satellite crap.
QOS seemed in some aspects Fleming like as Bond had a personal vendetta against Quantum the way he did for SMERSH after CR and the more realistic aspects of the story involving shady international corporate/government characters as well as some of the exotic strange nature of certain scenes such as the backdrop of the opera and the whole third act in the desert (reminded me of Bond/desert ghost town/gangsters/train scenes from DAF, and it had serious realistic dark moments as Fleming had in his novels. The whole water plot and weak villain is what made me put it at the bottom in regards to not being like Fleming. I did not include any of the others because there was either no resemblence of Fleming in them (TSWLM, YOLT, etc) or what little they used was totally overshadowed by the introduction of slapstick LALD/TMWTGG).

Blackleiter · April 2013

Good analysis, and your list makes a lot of sense to me. -{

CmdrAtticus wrote:

My list in descending order:
1. Casino Royale
2. The Living Daylights
3. License to Kill
4. Skyfall
5. Goldeneye
6. For Your Eyes Only
7. Octopussy
8. The World Is Not Enough
9. Die Another Day
10. Quantum of Solace

I understand the reaction towards making Craig a new 00 and it being his first job. However, the whole plot of Le Chiffre being the villain and Vesper and the card game and Bond's torture and recovery are still from Fleming. For me it was just great finally seeing a serious version of his novel on the screen and Bond be treated as a real agent in a real plot again. The other films I put in their particular order is in regards to how realistic their plots are in relation to how Fleming would have viewed them. TLD to me came across as a very real, Fleming like plot. LTK was obviously a version of TMWTGG with the Bond revenging Leiter and other scenes lifted from LALD and The Hildebrand Rarity - that was all Fleming for me, as well as the scenes taking place in and under the Caribbean waters and Bond infiltrating Sanchez's
organization. Skyfall had elements of YOLT and TWMTGG (Bond "dies" and comes back) and even the last act - it reminded me of Bond and Vivien taking a stand in those burning cabins against the gangsters in TSWLM. Goldeneye
had very Fleming like qualities - the Russian characters really exist (black market gangsters, military and bureacrats); Onatoppe and her kinkiness was very Fleming like in her bizarre twisted character; an EMP weapon is not science fiction. FYEO - plot lifted right from the story, with the coding device lifted from FRWL and the two crime bosses from Risisco - all Fleming. OPUSSY - Faberge egg lifted out of his "Property of a Lady", use of Soviets vs. West and a nuclear bomb threat starting WWIII combined with jewelry smuggling - was very Fleming like for me. I even could see Fleming using a European circus theme in a novel though he never did (possibly a Russian circus in a plot).
TWINE -The terrorist villain and his abnormalities along with the oil pipeline and nuclear blast near Istanbul plot seemed very Fleming to me. I put DAD near the bottom because from the beginning of the film up till the invisible car an onwards seemed Fleming like to me, but then they went back to the whole non Fleming DAF satellite crap.
QOS seemed in some aspects Fleming like as Bond had a personal vendetta against Quantum the way he did for SMERSH after CR and the more realistic aspects of the story involving shady international corporate/government characters as well as some of the exotic strange nature of certain scenes such as the backdrop of the opera and the whole third act in the desert (reminded me of Bond/desert ghost town/gangsters/train scenes from DAF, and it had serious realistic dark moments as Fleming had in his novels. The whole water plot and weak villain is what made me put it at the bottom in regards to not being like Fleming. I did not include any of the others because there was either no resemblence of Fleming in them (TSWLM, YOLT, etc) or what little they used was totally overshadowed by the introduction of slapstick LALD/TMWTGG).

chrisisall · April 2013

Blackleiter wrote:

Good analysis, and your list makes a lot of sense to me. -{

Except that I feel YOLT is reasonably Fleminesque... an extension of the absurdity Fleming exhibited is some later novels.... :007)

Blackleiter · April 2013

Well.....you know how I feel about YOLT, so I'm not going to dispute any positives you attribute to one of my favorites. But I was really focused on "Flemingesque" as CmdrAtticus and others seem to define it, so I didn't pay much attention to the notion that YOLT wouldn't fit that particular definition. Flemingesque or not, YOLT is still a damn fine Bond movie if you ask me.

chrisisall wrote:

Blackleiter wrote:

Good analysis, and your list makes a lot of sense to me. -{

Except that I feel YOLT is reasonably Fleminesque... an extension of the absurdity Fleming exhibited is some later novels.... :007)

chrisisall · April 2013

Blackleiter wrote:

Flemingesque or not, YOLT is still a damn fine Bond movie if you ask me.

No doubt it was the beginning to stray a bit at that point, but until DAF all was still in the area I would call 'Flemingesque'. Hence the thread title "Most Flemingesque James Bond movies after 1969." -{

Sir James Moloney · April 2013

Of course, all of the Bond films are Flemingesque because they all feature Ian Fleming's character James Bond 007. But I've tried to do my list slightly differently and ranked based on how much actual material they take directly from Fleming:

1. On Her Majesty's Secret Service
A straight adaptation of the novel with a couple of minor alterations to the plot.

2. From Russia With Love
Again, a straight adaptation. The two major changes are changing the villainous organisation behind the scheme from SMERSH to SPECTRE and Bond surviving unscathed at the end of the mission.

3. Thunderball
A straight adaptation with added gadgets, girls and gags.

4. Dr No
Another straight adaptation but with a somewhat more realistic ending (no giant squid!)

5. Goldfinger
Eon adapt Fleming's somewhat flabby novel fairly faithfully but trim some of the fat and improve upon the literary Goldfinger's unbelievable plan

6. Casino Royale
A fairly straight adaptation of Fleming's novel for the 21st century but with a new first act, a more explosive climax and action! action! action! No commies though. Bond's cocktail order is quoted, anachronistically, verbatim from Fleming.

7. For Your Eyes Only
Richard Maibaum and Michael G. Wilson craft a brand new plot about a missing technological doo-dah called the ATAC but structure this new story by rather cleverly integrating the plots of Fleming's For Your Eyes Only and Risico, using Fleming's characters throughout. We also get the keel-hauling scene from Fleming's Live and Let Die.

8. Licence to Kill
Another brand-new plot but the jumping-off point is Felix's horrific encounter with a shark from Fleming's Live and Let Die (complete with the note "He disagreed with something that ate him"). Wilson also cannibalises bits and pieces from Fleming's The Hildebrand Rarity including Milton Krest, The Wavecrest and the use of a stingray tail for domestic abuse.

9. The Living Daylights
Adapts Fleming's short story of the same name almost completely straight for the first 20 minutes or so proper of the film (including Bond's line about strawberry jam) and ingeniously uses it as a jumping off point for the film's plot. Gets a gold star for "most imaginative use of Fleming material"

10. Diamonds Are Forever
The setting, Tiffany Case (in name at least), Shady Tree, Mr Wint and Mr Kidd (just Wint and Kidd in the novel) and the idea of Bond infiltrating a diamond-smuggling pipeline using Peter Franks' identity are taken from the novel. The pre-credits sequence with Blofeld in a mud-bath is sort of adapted from Fleming's jockey sequence. The climax o the cruise ship is very loosely taken from the book too.

11. Live and Let Die
The settings, the disappearing table, the voodoo, Solitaire, Whisper and Tee-Hee are taken from the novel. Fleming's bad guy Mr Big is taken from the novel too, but only as the false identity of the movie's real villain, a drug-smuggling politician. Quarrel also kind of makes it back.

12. You Only Live Twice
Bond going to Japan, getting married (kind of), "becoming Japanese" are all taken from the novel. Tiger Tanaka is actually fairly faithfully represented although Dikko Henderson takes the name of Fleming's character (but not his background, looks, nationality or personality.) Blofeld makes an appearance too although he's very different from Fleming's character (particularly at this stage in the "Blofeld Trilogy")

13.Octopussy
The film has a scene in an auction house which uses the events of Fleming's Property of a Lady and also uses the framing story from Fleming's Octopussy as the backstory for Maud Adams' character's father (and she takes her name from the octopus in Fleming's story)

14. Skyfall
A completely original story with a few scraps of Fleming: Bond's presumed death on a mission, M writing Bond's obituary, Bond living off the grid and then returning to MI6 and having to prove himself. Also we see Bond's Scottish heritage on screen for the first time along with his parent's names.

15. Goldeneye
The plot is a very loose adaptation of Fleming's Moonraker: an English hero is secretly a demented foreigner who faked his own death and is now holding a major grudge against England, dating back to WWII, and plans to set a bomb off in London to gain vengeance. Otherwise, we get the fact that Bond's parents died in a skiing accident.

16. The Man with the Golden Gun
The film takes the name of the villain, Francisco Scaramanga (although not his nickname, "Pistols") and also Mary Goodnight, but pretty much nothing else.

17. Moonraker
The name of the villain (and just his name), the name of his rocket (sort of) and also a scene with Bond and the heroine trapped under the exhausts of The Moonraker.

18. The Spy Who Loved Me
Eon weren't legally permitted to adapt the content of Fleming's novel but Sandor and Jaws are clearly loosely-based on Fleming's villains, "Sluggsy" Morant (small and hairless) and Sol "Horror" Horowitz (tall and with steel-capped teeth)

19. Die Another Day
We see a few glimpses of Fleming's old material from earlier films (Rosa Klebb's lethal shoe, for example) but that's very much Secondary Fleming. We do, however, get the line "sex for dinner and death for breakfast" - two chapter titles from Fleming's OHMSS.

20. The World is Not Enough
Bond quotes his family motto as first relayed in Fleming's OHMSS. But minus points as Bond here quotes it quite sincerely whereas Fleming's Bond is rather sarcastic about it.

21. Quantum of Solace
The title is taken from a Fleming short story (although in an entirely different context), albeit one that barely features Bond. We also get a return of the character René Mathis (although in a quite different situation than Fleming ever put him) and a mention of CR's Vesper Lynd.

22. A View to a Kill
The film sort of takes its title from a Fleming short story, (Fleming's story is actually From a View to a Kill.) And that's pretty much it.

23. Tomorrow Never Dies
Zip. Zilch. Nada. Is this the only Bond film that takes nothing at all from Fleming?

Most Flemingesque James Bond movies after 1969

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