I enjoyed the whole island piece. I must admit I couldn't quite work out her role. However, her death scene was good. I don't think for a moment Bond cared about the waste of Scotch. He's always made light of situations, its a coping mechanism. Very Flemingesque.
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and if there are more scenes like that then SF could actually be salvaged just by re=editing to be far more coherent. They need a new cut for this film apparently...
Indeed....because the film died on its arse 8-)
As others have said....the scene is very 'Flemingesque'....obviously not everybody reads the books...
and if there are more scenes like that then SF could actually be salvaged just by re=editing to be far more coherent. They need a new cut for this film apparently...
Indeed....because the film died on its arse 8-)
Yes, it could have doubled its earnings if it had been edited better...
Sir Miles, say it's Flemingesque all you want, but it (The death of Severine as shown) left a bad taste in many people's mouths. A hint that she was lying to Bond about her sorry captivity would save the entire movie for me- at least then that's one less person he failed...
Sir Miles, say it's Flemingesque all you want, but it (The death of Severine as shown) left a bad taste in many people's mouths.
Needless to say, I'm not Sir Miles, but couldn't you say that a lot of things in Fleming's novels would leave a bad taste in people's mouths? Felix Leiter maimed, the numerous tortures Bond endures, the murders of some characters, the fact Honeychile Rider had been raped, etc., etc.? I think there's always been plenty of "rough with the smooth" in the world of James Bond. . .
I think there's always been plenty of "rough with the smooth" in the world of James Bond. . .
Oh, well, "we gave her a nice honeymoooon" was pretty vile all right, but the difference is, Bond wasn't right there unable to stop it due to self-induced DT's.
There was just too much 'fail' in SF in particular. Taking Severine off the list would make the film considerably more palatable IMO. I *really* wanna find out she was a world-class lying manipulator....
I think there's always been plenty of "rough with the smooth" in the world of James Bond. . .
Oh, well, "we gave her a nice honeymoooon" was pretty vile all right, but the difference is, Bond wasn't right there unable to stop it due to self-induced DT's.
There was just too much 'fail' in SF in particular. Taking Severine off the list would make the film considerably more palatable IMO. I *really* wanna find out she was a world-class lying manipulator....
I'm guessing that Mendes was trusting that the audience would figure that she was deceitful when she lured that guy to his death.
I think she was a classic example of the "Obligatory Sacrificial Lamb"--the good character who is killed by the villain to provide both realism and a personal stake for Bond. Now, why doesn't Bond do anything? He's unarmed and surrounded by gunmen: the slightest move he makes would get him killed. Also, does he know that Silva will shoot Severine? I don't know. Frankly, I didn't expect it (I know, I know, there are several here who are claiming they saw it from a mile away--but I wasn't one of them, OK?), and I was a little shocked to see who I thought would be the "Bond Girl" mowed down so quickly. Maybe Bond didn't see it coming, either. But once it comes, again, what was he to do? Attack Silva and get shot down by his men? Scream, cry, and beat his chest? His throwaway line shows just how deeply he buries his feelings. As far as I'm concerned, it's a great sequence.
But once it comes, again, what was he to do? Attack Silva and get shot down by his men?
It's the film makers who determine what can & can't happen in a filmed situation. They could have done this:
"Suddenly, Bond spotted Severing being marched out, blood tinkling down her lip. He'd seen this march before, he knew what this was leading to. An execution. He glanced at his hand. Still shaking a bit, too much for the twisted William Tell nonsense he imagined was coming from where they were setting her up. Words were coming from Silva's mouth, but Bond didn't hear them, he was too deep into calculations, angles that might save them both. As the gun neared him, he didn't wait for it; he snatched it and shot at Silva's chest. The vest Silva wore saved his life, but he fell back hard. Even before the men began firing, Bond was seeking cover. He caught a glance from Severine as she shrunk behind the rock as best she could. He was being surrounded. Before he could formulate a new plan with what pitifully little he had to work with, the sound of helicopter blades ripped through the air..."
Woulda, coulda, shoulda. . .I believe in interpreting what's there as opposed to what someone would rather be there. Which is why I have such a problem with Richard--W and his posts. But that's another topic.
Sir Miles, say it's Flemingesque all you want, but it (The death of Severine as shown) left a bad taste in many people's mouths.
Needless to say, I'm not Sir Miles, but couldn't you say that a lot of things in Fleming's novels would leave a bad taste in people's mouths? Felix Leiter maimed, the numerous tortures Bond endures, the murders of some characters, the fact Honeychile Rider had been raped, etc., etc.? I think there's always been plenty of "rough with the smooth" in the world of James Bond. . .
True...you are not me...but at times I wish you were ! And I couldn't have written a better response if I'd had a couple of days to think about it... Thanks -{
I think she was a classic example of the "Obligatory Sacrificial Lamb"--the good character who is killed by the villain to provide both realism and a personal stake for Bond. Now, why doesn't Bond do anything? He's unarmed and surrounded by gunmen: the slightest move he makes would get him killed. Also, does he know that Silva will shoot Severine? I don't know. Frankly, I didn't expect it (I know, I know, there are several here who are claiming they saw it from a mile away--but I wasn't one of them, OK?), and I was a little shocked to see who I thought would be the "Bond Girl" mowed down so quickly. Maybe Bond didn't see it coming, either. But once it comes, again, what was he to do? Attack Silva and get shot down by his men? Scream, cry, and beat his chest? His throwaway line shows just how deeply he buries his feelings. As far as I'm concerned, it's a great sequence.
Excellent response with which I agree wholeheartedly. -{
I think she was a classic example of the "Obligatory Sacrificial Lamb"--the good character who is killed by the villain to provide both realism and a personal stake for Bond. Now, why doesn't Bond do anything? He's unarmed and surrounded by gunmen: the slightest move he makes would get him killed. Also, does he know that Silva will shoot Severine? I don't know. Frankly, I didn't expect it (I know, I know, there are several here who are claiming they saw it from a mile away--but I wasn't one of them, OK?), and I was a little shocked to see who I thought would be the "Bond Girl" mowed down so quickly. Maybe Bond didn't see it coming, either. But once it comes, again, what was he to do? Attack Silva and get shot down by his men? Scream, cry, and beat his chest? His throwaway line shows just how deeply he buries his feelings. As far as I'm concerned, it's a great sequence.
Excellent response with which I agree wholeheartedly. -{
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and if there are more scenes like that then SF could actually be salvaged just by re=editing to be far more coherent. They need a new cut for this film apparently...
Indeed....because the film died on its arse 8-)
As others have said....the scene is very 'Flemingesque'....obviously not everybody reads the books...
Because I totally confusing artistic success with commercial success.... and I have read the books. My main problem with the scene is that she comes across as an innocent as edited, he does nothing to save her, then after she is dead snaps into super spy mode showcasing that he could have easily tried and probably succeeded in saving her. This film had a lot of pacing and editing issues that kept it from being enjoyable to me. There is a reason I have it at the bottom of my list of Bond films... it is the only one I haven't been able to rewatch after the initial viewing. In fact, that scene is as far as I've gotten since before I turn it off in disgust.
I know that isn't a popular opinion around here though.
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Then after she is dead snaps into super spy mode showcasing that he could have easily tried and probably succeeded in saving her.
I know that isn't a popular opinion around here though.
Don't worry, you are not alone.
I totally agree on your points - finding some parts of SF also pretty weak and I am not too excited to see it very soon again on BR
However, it's miles better than QoBS
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
On the basis that I can't suspend disbelief in either QoS or SF, I'd go with SF cos there's more in it, more scope, more up on the screen. But only just.
Back on topic, there's an easy way to make the scene work. Make Severine less sympathetic. She should be like Miss Tao in Dr No. Her attraction to Bond is lust; when she sees him across the void for the first time it should be erotic intrigue, sultry promise and all that. She is, let's not forget, a bad girl being in on an assassination. Problem is, as Bond did nothing to stop it it all seems morally a bit muddled by this point.
Either by miscasting or bad direction, Severine's first glimpse seems rather wistful and romantic so when Bond also says, hey, I can save you, we're inclined to believe it if we're of a romantic bent, so we feel just as betrayed as she does at the turn of events. Throw in the fact that Bond is dumb enough to visit this villain who is flagged up as some Hannibel Lector/Dracula hybrid without even a pistol and it's unfortunate that Severeine's death scene become the only believable moment in the movie - and it's horrible.
But if Severine has basically been a sexy bitch looking to change or upgrade her position in life, well, ok that doesn't seem sympathetic, but the scene would sit more easily with me.
(...)Throw in the fact that Bond is dumb enough to visit this villain who is flagged up as some Hannibel Lector/Dracula hybrid without even a pistol and it's unfortunate that Severeine's death scene become the only believable moment in the movie - and it's horrible.(...)
That is a very good point. He did went back to the hotel to pick up his sunglasses so he should have taken something of a weapon with him.
OT I think the biggest problem is the face that she had so little screen time. It is impossible to connect with someone you have only seen for 10 minutes.
In many ways I think Bérénice Marlohe got some great screen time in Skyfall.
She might be a terrible actress, we'll never know because IHMO although she wasn't
on screen for long, what time she had was very memorable, and I for one think she
looked genuinely terrified of Silva.
Once again a great Scene, beautifully filmed. with a great errie feel to it all.
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In many ways I think Bérénice Marlohe got some great screen time in Skyfall.
She might be a terrible actress, we'll never know because IHMO although she wasn't
on screen for long, what time she had was very memorable, and I for one think she
looked genuinely terrified of Silva.
Once again a great Scene, beautifully filmed. with a great errie feel to it all.
+1
"Felix Leiter, a brother from Langley."
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,749Chief of Staff
In many ways I think Bérénice Marlohe got some great screen time in Skyfall.
She might be a terrible actress, we'll never know because IHMO although she wasn't
on screen for long, what time she had was very memorable, and I for one think she
looked genuinely terrified of Silva.
Once again a great Scene, beautifully filmed. with a great errie feel to it all.
Yeah...pretty much what he said !
And we don't agree very often )
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LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
The scene between Bond and Severine in the casino is one of the best in the film, in my opinion, and Ms. Marlohe's performance is brilliant in it---the nervous (terrified?) smile that comes and goes, the hesitation...she's doomed and she knows it. It's a shame she isn't in the film more than she is, but she completely owns the scenes in which she appears.
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"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
and Ms. Marlohe's performance is brilliant in it---the nervous (terrified?) smile that comes and goes, the hesitation...she's doomed and she knows it. It's a shame she isn't in the film more than she is, but she completely owns the scenes in which she appears.
Here I agree, old friend! -{ *
But a glance of a remorse in Bond's face when she's been shot would have been good
* good to see you around here recently again
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,749Chief of Staff
But a glance of a remorse in Bond's face when she's been shot would have been good
There is....watch the scene again....and look at it through YOUR eyes...not Dalton's 'misty eyes'
I agree. Craig's acting is pretty subtle sometimes, but I definitely detected his remorse when I saw that scene. That's why I disagree with those who are bothered by the fact that Bond had no reaction to Severine's assassination other than the quip about the scotch - he did!
I've watched the scene now twice. The heavier breathing before he mentions the waste of scotch could be interpreted as a remorse, but I don't agree.
I don't see anything in his face
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I've watched the scene now twice. The heavier breathing before he mentions the waste of scotch could be interpreted as a remorse, but I don't agree.
I don't see anything in his face
Perhaps it would have been clearer if Craig had taken a page out of Timothy "Misty-Eyes" Dalton's book! ) Seriously, though, maybe it's just a matter of interpretation but I see remorse.
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Indeed....because the film died on its arse 8-)
As others have said....the scene is very 'Flemingesque'....obviously not everybody reads the books...
Sir Miles, say it's Flemingesque all you want, but it (The death of Severine as shown) left a bad taste in many people's mouths. A hint that she was lying to Bond about her sorry captivity would save the entire movie for me- at least then that's one less person he failed...
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Needless to say, I'm not Sir Miles, but couldn't you say that a lot of things in Fleming's novels would leave a bad taste in people's mouths? Felix Leiter maimed, the numerous tortures Bond endures, the murders of some characters, the fact Honeychile Rider had been raped, etc., etc.? I think there's always been plenty of "rough with the smooth" in the world of James Bond. . .
There was just too much 'fail' in SF in particular. Taking Severine off the list would make the film considerably more palatable IMO. I *really* wanna find out she was a world-class lying manipulator....
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
I'm guessing that Mendes was trusting that the audience would figure that she was deceitful when she lured that guy to his death.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
I'll just interpret it that she was a b***h, and that will make me feel better concerning the whole affair.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
True...you are not me...but at times I wish you were ! And I couldn't have written a better response if I'd had a couple of days to think about it... Thanks -{
Excellent response with which I agree wholeheartedly. -{
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Because I totally confusing artistic success with commercial success.... and I have read the books. My main problem with the scene is that she comes across as an innocent as edited, he does nothing to save her, then after she is dead snaps into super spy mode showcasing that he could have easily tried and probably succeeded in saving her. This film had a lot of pacing and editing issues that kept it from being enjoyable to me. There is a reason I have it at the bottom of my list of Bond films... it is the only one I haven't been able to rewatch after the initial viewing. In fact, that scene is as far as I've gotten since before I turn it off in disgust.
I know that isn't a popular opinion around here though.
Don't worry, you are not alone.
I totally agree on your points - finding some parts of SF also pretty weak and I am not too excited to see it very soon again on BR
However, it's miles better than QoBS
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Back on topic, there's an easy way to make the scene work. Make Severine less sympathetic. She should be like Miss Tao in Dr No. Her attraction to Bond is lust; when she sees him across the void for the first time it should be erotic intrigue, sultry promise and all that. She is, let's not forget, a bad girl being in on an assassination. Problem is, as Bond did nothing to stop it it all seems morally a bit muddled by this point.
Either by miscasting or bad direction, Severine's first glimpse seems rather wistful and romantic so when Bond also says, hey, I can save you, we're inclined to believe it if we're of a romantic bent, so we feel just as betrayed as she does at the turn of events. Throw in the fact that Bond is dumb enough to visit this villain who is flagged up as some Hannibel Lector/Dracula hybrid without even a pistol and it's unfortunate that Severeine's death scene become the only believable moment in the movie - and it's horrible.
But if Severine has basically been a sexy bitch looking to change or upgrade her position in life, well, ok that doesn't seem sympathetic, but the scene would sit more easily with me.
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That is a very good point. He did went back to the hotel to pick up his sunglasses so he should have taken something of a weapon with him.
OT I think the biggest problem is the face that she had so little screen time. It is impossible to connect with someone you have only seen for 10 minutes.
She might be a terrible actress, we'll never know because IHMO although she wasn't
on screen for long, what time she had was very memorable, and I for one think she
looked genuinely terrified of Silva.
Once again a great Scene, beautifully filmed. with a great errie feel to it all.
+1
Yeah...pretty much what he said !
And we don't agree very often
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Here I agree, old friend! -{ *
But a glance of a remorse in Bond's face when she's been shot would have been good
* good to see you around here recently again
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
There is....watch the scene again....and look at it through YOUR eyes...not Dalton's 'misty eyes'
I agree. Craig's acting is pretty subtle sometimes, but I definitely detected his remorse when I saw that scene. That's why I disagree with those who are bothered by the fact that Bond had no reaction to Severine's assassination other than the quip about the scotch - he did!
I don't see anything in his face
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Perhaps it would have been clearer if Craig had taken a page out of Timothy "Misty-Eyes" Dalton's book!
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!