:v never said that Craig was a bad actor.
Not sure about Dalton's action skills, (please don't emphasize on Shakespeare, I know!) but he's an uncool personality and his performance as Bond was pathetic imo. I was just waiting that he stomped with his feet of angor and hit his fists on the asphalt like a bitchy teenager )
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
But a glance of a remorse in Bond's face when she's been shot would have been good
There is....watch the scene again....and look at it through YOUR eyes...not Dalton's 'misty eyes'
I agree. Craig's acting is pretty subtle sometimes, but I definitely detected his remorse when I saw that scene. That's why I disagree with those who are bothered by the fact that Bond had no reaction to Severine's assassination other than the quip about the scotch - he did!
There is....watch the scene again....and look at it through YOUR eyes...not Dalton's 'misty eyes'
I agree. Craig's acting is pretty subtle sometimes, but I definitely detected his remorse when I saw that scene. That's why I disagree with those who are bothered by the fact that Bond had no reaction to Severine's assassination other than the quip about the scotch - he did!
you must give me the name of your Oculist
Sure - as soon as he's done with a couple of patients having trouble seeing the subtle, but effective acting of one Daniel Craig! :007)
True, but imo it makes it harder to shrug off the implausibilities of the last three films, I'd rather they were watertight in terms of plot holes, on a par with Layer Cake in terms of credibility only with a slight spin.
True, but imo it makes it harder to shrug off the implausibilities of the last three films, I'd rather they were watertight in terms of plot holes, on a par with Layer Cake in terms of credibility only with a slight spin.
Really I blame myself, for not being a sophisticated enough viewer to discern and appreciate all the subtlety and nuance in some parts of Daniel's performance. I will try harder in future as it's just not good enough. Maybe it's like very high frequencies and you have to be a Dog to hear it, or possess beyond human powers? Whatever it is I'm clearly just not 'nailing it' :007)
True, but imo it makes it harder to shrug off the implausibilities of the last three films, I'd rather they were watertight in terms of plot holes, on a par with Layer Cake in terms of credibility only with a slight spin.
Really I blame myself, for not being a sophisticated enough viewer to discern and appreciate all the subtlety and nuance in some parts of Daniel's performance. I will try harder in future as it's just not good enough. Maybe it's like very high frequencies and you have to be a Dog to hear it, or possess beyond human powers? Whatever it is I'm clearly just not 'nailing it' :007)
True, but imo it makes it harder to shrug off the implausibilities of the last three films, I'd rather they were watertight in terms of plot holes, on a par with Layer Cake in terms of credibility only with a slight spin.
Really I blame myself, for not being a sophisticated enough viewer to discern and appreciate all the subtlety and nuance in some parts of Daniel's performance. I will try harder in future as it's just not good enough. Maybe it's like very high frequencies and you have to be a Dog to hear it, or possess beyond human powers? Whatever it is I'm clearly just not 'nailing it' :007)
Thankyou. That is really encouraging.I just worry that my determination and resolve will give out before my ability kicks in. Perhaps I could try some Daniel appreciation classes for the hard of understanding? What worries me is as Daniel develops into the character and finally becomes Bond what new heights of hitherto unprecedented subtlety will he achieve? If he keeps getting evermore nuanced to the point that he is beyond the script and operating on some Meta level of arcane acting I will keep falling behind the curve, please this is a genuine worry, send professional help ! :007)
Really I blame myself, for not being a sophisticated enough viewer to discern and appreciate all the subtlety and nuance in some parts of Daniel's performance. I will try harder in future as it's just not good enough. Maybe it's like very high frequencies and you have to be a Dog to hear it, or possess beyond human powers? Whatever it is I'm clearly just not 'nailing it' :007)
Thankyou. That is really encouraging.I just worry that my determination and resolve will give out before my ability kicks in. Perhaps I could try some Daniel appreciation classes for the hard of understanding? What worries me is as Daniel develops into the character and finally becomes Bond what new heights of hitherto unprecedented subtlety will he achieve? If he keeps getting evermore nuanced to the point that he is beyond the script and operating on some Meta level of arcane acting I will keep falling behind the curve, please this is a genuine worry, send professional help ! :007)
".....he keeps getting evermore nuanced to the point that he is beyond the script and operating on some Meta level of arcane acting."
I've posted my thoughts on this scene in another topic, but just would like to throw in another in case some members might have missed it.
I don't believe Severine was some kept, innocent whore born from the sex trade. She may have been immorally forced into it as a child, but at one point in her life I think she evolved from that into a shady, duplicitous immoral character herself, whether it was from becoming a drug addict (or a former one) or just being totally immersed in the sex slave/drug/weapons/gambling universe. She was a beautiful woman to be sure, but as Bond noticed, it masked her true nature. She was involved in a cold blooded murder (the target was probably some evil, immoral person himself) and as we saw, didn't react the way an innocent would. She was as cold as Bond was. From this and her conversation with Bond and the fact she wore a concealed weapon, I viewed her more as on the same level as a Miss Taro/Pussy Galore/Octopussy. I think many assumed she was more like Andrea Anders in MWTGG. In that case, of course her death would be really tragic. However, if she is - as I believe she was - more like those other women, then Bond's behavior towards her seems reasonable. It would make her a professional criminal, and as such would mean she is living outside accepted moral laws. Since Bond knows this, then he is going to treat her on that level, so his actions (using her to get to Silva/having sex with her, etc.) is justified. That is not
to say he does not feel sorry that she chose that life, or that he doesn't believe that if he can get Silva he can get her away from him. It just means he's dealing with her on the same level she would deal with anyone like him. When she asks him if he could kill Silva, I didn't buy into the idea it's because she was an innocent sex prisoner who wanted to escape his clutches. I believed it was so she could be free to continue to pursue her own immoral lifestyle. As far as we know, she could have murdered people in her past (either by using toxins or luring them to a situation where others did them in). Viewed in this light, her demise at Silva's hands seems less tragic, doesn't it? Granted, we are not given enough of her bio to know if this is all true and more info on that may have ended up being edited out, but I still believe her to be a professional criminal.
Many dislike how cold blooded her death was, even if she were a criminal. I understand that. However, I believe the writers were trying to go out of their way to show just how crazy and evil and cold blooded Silva was. He didn't have his henchmen do it - he did it himself and right in front of Bond. It was meant to intimidate Bond and show him how powerless he was in that moment. That Bond did not try to save her was their way of showing how calculating a professional he was as a 00. He may have not believed Silva was going to do it, but was planning on how to take out the goons as soon as he understood the situation. Attempting an attack with the goons AND Silva holding loaded weapons were bad odds. Once Silva emptied his pistol, Bond had one less weapon to worry about and with her death (as horrible as that was) left him only to have to focus on the bodyguards. The throwaway line about the Scotch was only meant to give Silva and his men the impression that Bond was still at their mercy and was trying to be flippant to put them off guard. It's easier to make a surprise attack on opponents when they believe they are in total control. It's another reason Bond did not use his dueling pistol to attack with. Having armed him, the guards and Silva were on extra alert in case he would try this. Once he fired it, they no longer believed he was a threat. I see cold logic in this. As far as I'm concerned, her death was unavoidable in this situation. Of course, they could have written it so Silva DID miss her and then Bond attacks and saves her (and I personally would have preferred that), but, the deed's been done.
I've posted my thoughts on this scene in another topic, but just would like to throw in another in case some members might have missed it.
I don't believe Severine was some kept, innocent whore born from the sex trade. She may have been immorally forced into it as a child, but at one point in her life I think she evolved from that into a shady, duplicitous immoral character herself, whether it was from becoming a drug addict (or a former one) or just being totally immersed in the sex slave/drug/weapons/gambling universe. She was a beautiful woman to be sure, but as Bond noticed, it masked her true nature. She was involved in a cold blooded murder (the target was probably some evil, immoral person himself) and as we saw, didn't react the way an innocent would. She was as cold as Bond was. From this and her conversation with Bond and the fact she wore a concealed weapon, I viewed her more as on the same level as a Miss Taro/Pussy Galore/Octopussy. I think many assumed she was more like Andrea Anders in MWTGG. In that case, of course her death would be really tragic. However, if she is - as I believe she was - more like those other women, then Bond's behavior towards her seems reasonable. It would make her a professional criminal, and as such would mean she is living outside accepted moral laws. Since Bond knows this, then he is going to treat her on that level, so his actions (using her to get to Silva/having sex with her, etc.) is justified. That is not
to say he does not feel sorry that she chose that life, or that he doesn't believe that if he can get Silva he can get her away from him. It just means he's dealing with her on the same level she would deal with anyone like him. When she asks him if he could kill Silva, I didn't buy into the idea it's because she was an innocent sex prisoner who wanted to escape his clutches. I believed it was so she could be free to continue to pursue her own immoral lifestyle. As far as we know, she could have murdered people in her past (either by using toxins or luring them to a situation where others did them in). Viewed in this light, her demise at Silva's hands seems less tragic, doesn't it? Granted, we are not given enough of her bio to know if this is all true and more info on that may have ended up being edited out, but I still believe her to be a professional criminal.
Many dislike how cold blooded her death was, even if she were a criminal. I understand that. However, I believe the writers were trying to go out of their way to show just how crazy and evil and cold blooded Silva was. He didn't have his henchmen do it - he did it himself and right in front of Bond. It was meant to intimidate Bond and show him how powerless he was in that moment. That Bond did not try to save her was their way of showing how calculating a professional he was as a 00. He may have not believed Silva was going to do it, but was planning on how to take out the goons as soon as he understood the situation. Attempting an attack with the goons AND Silva holding loaded weapons were bad odds. Once Silva emptied his pistol, Bond had one less weapon to worry about and with her death (as horrible as that was) left him only to have to focus on the bodyguards. The throwaway line about the Scotch was only meant to give Silva and his men the impression that Bond was still at their mercy and was trying to be flippant to put them off guard. It's easier to make a surprise attack on opponents when they believe they are in total control. It's another reason Bond did not use his dueling pistol to attack with. Having armed him, the guards and Silva were on extra alert in case he would try this. Once he fired it, they no longer believed he was a threat. I see cold logic in this. As far as I'm concerned, her death was unavoidable in this situation. Of course, they could have written it so Silva DID miss her and then Bond attacks and saves her (and I personally would have preferred that), but, the deed's been done.
If you think Severine was badly treated by Bond (who was held under gunpoint) I don't think she was quite as callously mistreated as Andrea Anders (who was slapped about violently by Bond then got killed when trying to retrieve the plot McGuffin for Bond).
'Alright guard, begin the unnecessarily slow moving dipping mechanism...'
If you think Severine was badly treated by Bond (who was held under gunpoint) I don't think she was quite as callously mistreated as Andrea Anders (who was slapped about violently by Bond then got killed when trying to retrieve the plot McGuffin for Bond).
I've watched the scene now twice. The heavier breathing before he mentions the waste of scotch could be interpreted as a remorse, but I don't agree.
I don't see anything in his face
I just watched the scene again on youtube. His face remains impassive but then relaxes slightly when he starts shaking his head and saying the bit about Scotch. I didn't see or hear anything in his voice that suggests remorse for Severine so much as (barely) the loss of the Scotch.
I've watched the scene now twice. The heavier breathing before he mentions the waste of scotch could be interpreted as a remorse, but I don't agree.
I don't see anything in his face
I just watched the scene again on youtube. His face remains impassive but then relaxes slightly when he starts shaking his head and saying the bit about Scotch. I didn't see or hear anything in his voice that suggests remorse for Severine so much as (barely) the loss of the Scotch.
like me you are failing to appreciate the myriad and unparalleled subtleties of his performance. Perhaps we should attend night school until we attain the required standard and atone for past misdeeds :007) Just in case the ' Danielsisagodbestbondever' contingent think this is a dig at him it is not. For me the scene is problematic. As others have noted we don't know what is on the cutting room floor that might improve it. That however is besides the point. We can only judge on what we see in the released version, and with EON being so miserly with unseen and extra footage we'll probably never know.
I've watched the scene now twice. The heavier breathing before he mentions the waste of scotch could be interpreted as a remorse, but I don't agree.
I don't see anything in his face
I just watched the scene again on youtube. His face remains impassive but then relaxes slightly when he starts shaking his head and saying the bit about Scotch. I didn't see or hear anything in his voice that suggests remorse for Severine so much as (barely) the loss of the Scotch.
like me you are failing to appreciate the myriad and unparalleled subtleties of his performance. Perhaps we should attend night school until we attain the required standard and atone for past misdeeds :007) Just in case the ' Danielsisagodbestbondever' contingent think this is a dig at him it is not. For me the scene is problematic. As others have noted we don't know what is on the cutting room floor that might improve it. That however is besides the point. We can only judge on what we see in the released version, and with EON being so miserly with unseen and extra footage we'll probably never know.
Haha, I'm a fan of Craig's Bond, but I thought he delivered this line in the movie wrong. The fact that the "cavalry" arrive moments later -- meaning she might have lived if things had been stalled a bit more -- makes the scene particularly tragic . . . with the exception of the delivery of that line, which to me made Bond seem truly cold and indifferent to her death. It dehumanized Bond further rather than made him the flawed hero.
I just watched the scene again on youtube. His face remains impassive but then relaxes slightly when he starts shaking his head and saying the bit about Scotch. I didn't see or hear anything in his voice that suggests remorse for Severine so much as (barely) the loss of the Scotch.
like me you are failing to appreciate the myriad and unparalleled subtleties of his performance. Perhaps we should attend night school until we attain the required standard and atone for past misdeeds :007) Just in case the ' Danielsisagodbestbondever' contingent think this is a dig at him it is not. For me the scene is problematic. As others have noted we don't know what is on the cutting room floor that might improve it. That however is besides the point. We can only judge on what we see in the released version, and with EON being so miserly with unseen and extra footage we'll probably never know.
Haha, I'm a fan of Craig's Bond, but I thought he delivered this line in the movie wrong. The fact that the "cavalry" arrive moments later -- meaning she might have lived if things had been stalled a bit more -- makes the scene particularly tragic . . . with the exception of the delivery of that line, which to me made Bond seem truly cold and indifferent to her death. It dehumanized Bond further rather than made him the flawed hero.
There is no line reading that would make that line not seem cold-hearted. It's a simply cold-hearted line.
Something like, "Is that supposed to impress me?" might have been better.
My problem also is that he couldn't shoot well due to the DT's, yet he delivered the line crisp & simple as if in complete control of himself. It just didn't seem right...
Bond was acting as a "burnt out " agent at that point
The line, its reading by Craig and indeed the whole scene can be and is interpreted in many ways. I take some quantum of solace in the belief that Severine was not quite the poor slave she portrayed herself as.
My problem also is that he couldn't shoot well due to the DT's, yet he delivered the line crisp & simple as if in complete control of himself. It just didn't seem right...
I don't think the line is delivered as you say...but its pointless, for me, to keep going round in circles about it...I know what the scene is about...I understand what the scene is about...I'm happy...
Comments
Leave Timmy alone! (using the Britney Spears crazed fan voice)
Or try sitting a little further away from that big TV screen.
Or facing it
Not sure about Dalton's action skills, (please don't emphasize on Shakespeare, I know!) but he's an uncool personality and his performance as Bond was pathetic imo. I was just waiting that he stomped with his feet of angor and hit his fists on the asphalt
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Craig isn't a great actor imo but the dialogue was better tailored to him this time round, mostly.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Don't worry!
Timmiboy is all yours -{
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Don't be so sure about that, Toys! There are many Timmy fans out there!
you must give me the name of your Oculist
Sure - as soon as he's done with a couple of patients having trouble seeing the subtle, but effective acting of one Daniel Craig! :007)
Craig's a very good actor within a very narrow range. Fortunately, the current iteration of Bond is right in the middle of that range.
You wouldn't want him in a comedy, romantic/comedy, romance, spoof, or anything where he's not being completely serious.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Really I blame myself, for not being a sophisticated enough viewer to discern and appreciate all the subtlety and nuance in some parts of Daniel's performance. I will try harder in future as it's just not good enough. Maybe it's like very high frequencies and you have to be a Dog to hear it, or possess beyond human powers? Whatever it is I'm clearly just not 'nailing it' :007)
Don't worry, dear boy. Keep trying - you'll get it!
Thankyou. That is really encouraging.I just worry that my determination and resolve will give out before my ability kicks in. Perhaps I could try some Daniel appreciation classes for the hard of understanding? What worries me is as Daniel develops into the character and finally becomes Bond what new heights of hitherto unprecedented subtlety will he achieve? If he keeps getting evermore nuanced to the point that he is beyond the script and operating on some Meta level of arcane acting I will keep falling behind the curve, please this is a genuine worry, send professional help ! :007)
".....he keeps getting evermore nuanced to the point that he is beyond the script and operating on some Meta level of arcane acting."
I anxiously await the day!
I don't believe Severine was some kept, innocent whore born from the sex trade. She may have been immorally forced into it as a child, but at one point in her life I think she evolved from that into a shady, duplicitous immoral character herself, whether it was from becoming a drug addict (or a former one) or just being totally immersed in the sex slave/drug/weapons/gambling universe. She was a beautiful woman to be sure, but as Bond noticed, it masked her true nature. She was involved in a cold blooded murder (the target was probably some evil, immoral person himself) and as we saw, didn't react the way an innocent would. She was as cold as Bond was. From this and her conversation with Bond and the fact she wore a concealed weapon, I viewed her more as on the same level as a Miss Taro/Pussy Galore/Octopussy. I think many assumed she was more like Andrea Anders in MWTGG. In that case, of course her death would be really tragic. However, if she is - as I believe she was - more like those other women, then Bond's behavior towards her seems reasonable. It would make her a professional criminal, and as such would mean she is living outside accepted moral laws. Since Bond knows this, then he is going to treat her on that level, so his actions (using her to get to Silva/having sex with her, etc.) is justified. That is not
to say he does not feel sorry that she chose that life, or that he doesn't believe that if he can get Silva he can get her away from him. It just means he's dealing with her on the same level she would deal with anyone like him. When she asks him if he could kill Silva, I didn't buy into the idea it's because she was an innocent sex prisoner who wanted to escape his clutches. I believed it was so she could be free to continue to pursue her own immoral lifestyle. As far as we know, she could have murdered people in her past (either by using toxins or luring them to a situation where others did them in). Viewed in this light, her demise at Silva's hands seems less tragic, doesn't it? Granted, we are not given enough of her bio to know if this is all true and more info on that may have ended up being edited out, but I still believe her to be a professional criminal.
Many dislike how cold blooded her death was, even if she were a criminal. I understand that. However, I believe the writers were trying to go out of their way to show just how crazy and evil and cold blooded Silva was. He didn't have his henchmen do it - he did it himself and right in front of Bond. It was meant to intimidate Bond and show him how powerless he was in that moment. That Bond did not try to save her was their way of showing how calculating a professional he was as a 00. He may have not believed Silva was going to do it, but was planning on how to take out the goons as soon as he understood the situation. Attempting an attack with the goons AND Silva holding loaded weapons were bad odds. Once Silva emptied his pistol, Bond had one less weapon to worry about and with her death (as horrible as that was) left him only to have to focus on the bodyguards. The throwaway line about the Scotch was only meant to give Silva and his men the impression that Bond was still at their mercy and was trying to be flippant to put them off guard. It's easier to make a surprise attack on opponents when they believe they are in total control. It's another reason Bond did not use his dueling pistol to attack with. Having armed him, the guards and Silva were on extra alert in case he would try this. Once he fired it, they no longer believed he was a threat. I see cold logic in this. As far as I'm concerned, her death was unavoidable in this situation. Of course, they could have written it so Silva DID miss her and then Bond attacks and saves her (and I personally would have preferred that), but, the deed's been done.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Sounds perfectly reasonable to me! -{
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
like me you are failing to appreciate the myriad and unparalleled subtleties of his performance. Perhaps we should attend night school until we attain the required standard and atone for past misdeeds :007) Just in case the ' Danielsisagodbestbondever' contingent think this is a dig at him it is not. For me the scene is problematic. As others have noted we don't know what is on the cutting room floor that might improve it. That however is besides the point. We can only judge on what we see in the released version, and with EON being so miserly with unseen and extra footage we'll probably never know.
There is no line reading that would make that line not seem cold-hearted. It's a simply cold-hearted line.
Something like, "Is that supposed to impress me?" might have been better.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
I don't think the line is delivered as you say...but its pointless, for me, to keep going round in circles about it...I know what the scene is about...I understand what the scene is about...I'm happy...