Daniel Craig - 'Ian Fleming's James Bond?'

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Comments

  • JagJag Posts: 1,167MI6 Agent
    Probably in a different sense though - Craigy is attempting best hits in trying to emulate the previous actors, and repeating the best scenes from previous movies. Which suggests to some of us that producers may have lost direction (only partly Craigy's fault). I'm all for a truly new Bond. It certainly won't be an Ian Fleming's Bond, but a Fleming-inspired Bond for the 21st century.
  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
    Jag wrote:
    I'm all for a truly new Bond. It certainly won't be an Ian Fleming's Bond, but a Fleming-inspired Bond for the 21st century.

    Craig has already done that, IMO. Everything else you said above and not quoted here just sounded like white noise to me.

    :D
    Check out my Amazon author page! Mark Loeffelholz
    "I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
    "Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
  • JagJag Posts: 1,167MI6 Agent
    Jag wrote:
    I'm all for a truly new Bond. It certainly won't be an Ian Fleming's Bond, but a Fleming-inspired Bond for the 21st century.

    Craig has already done that, IMO. Everything else you said above and not quoted here just sounded like white noise to me.

    :D


    Your earlier article claimed that Craigy was "Ian Fleming's James Bond". Now you are saying that he is a Fleming-inspired Bond. I'm afraid you can't have it both ways!

    And as for a 21 century Bond, we are still waiting. Each new Craig movie looks more and more into the past, whether you like it or not. What I'm after is moving forward, even if it means braking with tradition. Let's leave the DB5, the vodka Martini and Blofeld behind and move on - it might just work! Bond movies in the 1960's were revolutionary. Now they are just self-referential and self-indulgent blockbusters intended to generate money. If a reboot is required, let's have a serious one!
  • broadshoulderbroadshoulder Acton, London, UKPosts: 1,363MI6 Agent
    Jag wrote:
    And as for a 21 century Bond, we are still waiting. !

    You've had that in the last four films...
    1. For Your Eyes Only 2. The Living Daylights 3 From Russia with Love 4. Casino Royale 5. OHMSS 6. Skyfall
  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
    edited December 2015
    Jag wrote:
    Jag wrote:
    I'm all for a truly new Bond. It certainly won't be an Ian Fleming's Bond, but a Fleming-inspired Bond for the 21st century.

    Craig has already done that, IMO. Everything else you said above and not quoted here just sounded like white noise to me.

    :D


    Your earlier article claimed that Craigy was "Ian Fleming's James Bond". Now you are saying that he is a Fleming-inspired Bond. I'm afraid you can't have it both ways!

    And as for a 21 century Bond, we are still waiting. Each new Craig movie looks more and more into the past, whether you like it or not. What I'm after is moving forward, even if it means braking with tradition. Let's leave the DB5, the vodka Martini and Blofeld behind and move on - it might just work! Bond movies in the 1960's were revolutionary. Now they are just self-referential and self-indulgent blockbusters intended to generate money. If a reboot is required, let's have a serious one!

    Perhaps you missed the question mark in the title of the piece? Or, more likely, you didn't read it at all 8-)

    I was posing a question, and I gave both sides of the argument...and---quite predictably---instead of addressing any specific points I made, you're splitting hairs and diverting into semantics. You don't like Craig: I get it. We all get it. You're welcome to your opinion. I've also addressed SP's issues with self-referentialism, but you no doubt missed that as well. You're quite the dreary conversationalist, I'm afraid, and your one-note symphony is played out.

    Bond will continue to move forward. YOU are still waiting for YOUR 21st Century Bond, and we all know you won't be happy until he has a different face. C'est la guerre. Go back and rewatch DAD again, until Eon finally makes you happy. But until then, I have no more time for you.
    Check out my Amazon author page! Mark Loeffelholz
    "I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
    "Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
  • broadshoulderbroadshoulder Acton, London, UKPosts: 1,363MI6 Agent
    chrisisall wrote:
    Connery will always be the best cinematic Bond, just as Dalton will always be the best Literary Bond. Craig is a best hits combo that served the series well.

    This is what they'll say when he's replaced. ;)

    Depends what we get. I think he has created something new and he will be missed when he is gone

    The next Bond had better be up to scratch...
    1. For Your Eyes Only 2. The Living Daylights 3 From Russia with Love 4. Casino Royale 5. OHMSS 6. Skyfall
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,610MI6 Agent
    Jag wrote:
    Jag wrote:
    I'm all for a truly new Bond. It certainly won't be an Ian Fleming's Bond, but a Fleming-inspired Bond for the 21st century.

    Craig has already done that, IMO. Everything else you said above and not quoted here just sounded like white noise to me.

    :D


    Your earlier article claimed that Craigy was "Ian Fleming's James Bond". Now you are saying that he is a Fleming-inspired Bond. I'm afraid you can't have it both ways!

    And as for a 21 century Bond, we are still waiting. Each new Craig movie looks more and more into the past, whether you like it or not. What I'm after is moving forward, even if it means braking with tradition. Let's leave the DB5, the vodka Martini and Blofeld behind and move on - it might just work! Bond movies in the 1960's were revolutionary. Now they are just self-referential and self-indulgent blockbusters intended to generate money. If a reboot is required, let's have a serious one!

    I have to agree, although the article mentions that he's not entirely Fleming's Bond. QOS may have been the most successful in moving forward for Bond. Though it took a step back from the development of the character that we saw at the end of CR, it's Craig's Bond film that lives the most in his world. Maybe it lives too much in Bourne's world, but that's a lot different from the 1960s where SP lives. The references to the past in QOS are subtle, like how the dinner suit at the opera is directly inspired by the dinner suit from the beginning of DN. The story of how Bond becomes Bond in CR is too forced for me and is distracting from the story Fleming wrote. We didn't need to see a new take on how Bond gets the DB5. The DB5 shouldn't have even been in that film, or any of Craig's films. If Bond has a personal car, it should be a Bentley. I'm okay with the vodka martini, since it was a drink Fleming wrote about. I'm not so sure about Blofeld, but I wish he stuck closer to the books' Blofeld and not make him a cross between the films' old Blofelds and Dr. Evil. I also agree that Bond movies in the 1960s were revolutionary, but there were many revolutionary things about the Bond films in the 1970s as well. Since then they haven't been all that revolutionary, though I think all the Bond films in the 1980s are solid films, though LTK was hurt a little by following the trends of the decade. All of Craig's Bond films have tried to move forward in copying trends from today's films, like Bourne and Batman. But they're not moving forward in their own ways. I think the films can stay truer to Fleming and still move forward. They just need a director who can prioritise story telling and not focus too much on modern editing techniques (QOS) and stylisation (CR) or creating beautiful shots (SF and SP). The Bond films need a no-nonsense director like Terence Young or John Glen (apart from the occasional gags).
    Visit my blog, Bond Suits
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,610MI6 Agent
    chrisisall wrote:
    Connery will always be the best cinematic Bond, just as Dalton will always be the best Literary Bond. Craig is a best hits combo that served the series well.

    This is what they'll say when he's replaced. ;)

    Depends what we get. I think he has created something new and he will be missed when he is gone

    The next Bond had better be up to scratch...

    He will certainly be missed by a lot of people. I hope for the next Bond they can get a better actor, someone on Dalton's level.
    Visit my blog, Bond Suits
  • broadshoulderbroadshoulder Acton, London, UKPosts: 1,363MI6 Agent
    Matt S wrote:
    chrisisall wrote:
    Connery will always be the best cinematic Bond, just as Dalton will always be the best Literary Bond. Craig is a best hits combo that served the series well.

    This is what they'll say when he's replaced. ;)

    Depends what we get. I think he has created something new and he will be missed when he is gone

    The next Bond had better be up to scratch...

    He will certainly be missed by a lot of people. I hope for the next Bond they can get a better actor, someone on Dalton's level.


    A better actor?

    :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :))

    Oh dear, you had better learn something about acting...
    1. For Your Eyes Only 2. The Living Daylights 3 From Russia with Love 4. Casino Royale 5. OHMSS 6. Skyfall
  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
    Matt S wrote:
    chrisisall wrote:
    Connery will always be the best cinematic Bond, just as Dalton will always be the best Literary Bond. Craig is a best hits combo that served the series well.

    This is what they'll say when he's replaced. ;)

    Depends what we get. I think he has created something new and he will be missed when he is gone

    The next Bond had better be up to scratch...

    He will certainly be missed by a lot of people. I hope for the next Bond they can get a better actor, someone on Dalton's level.

    I actually think that Craig is quite an excellent actor, more 'method' in style that Dalton's classical training, but the chops are comparable. Craig (for all the guff he gets from some quarters, haha) handles the humour better than Dalton did.
    Check out my Amazon author page! Mark Loeffelholz
    "I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
    "Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,062MI6 Agent
    Matt S wrote:

    Depends what we get. I think he has created something new and he will be missed when he is gone

    The next Bond had better be up to scratch...

    He will certainly be missed by a lot of people. I hope for the next Bond they can get a better actor, someone on Dalton's level.


    A better actor?

    :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :))

    Oh dear, you had better learn something about acting...
    I was just saying what I think we'll hear from the usual suspects once the new Bond is in place. I miss Dalton. I miss Brosnan. And I will miss Craig.
    But then, I'm not a hater, I'm a lover.
    Lovers gotta love.
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
    edited December 2015
    There really is no difference between "Ian Fleming's James Bond" and a "Fleming-Inspired Bond," unless we're just arguing for the sheer sake of conflict. All Bond actors aspire (or ought to aspire, IMO) toward playing Bond as Fleming intended him, and I think they all have, to varying degrees of conscious effort and/or success. My point with the piece, clearly missed by some, is that I feel that Craig's interpretation has opened new doors into untapped Fleming source material, whether he is any particular fan's cup of tea or not.

    And, for the record, I think the Aston Martin and the vodka martinis should stay...as we continue to move forward in the 21st Century :007) ...regardless of who wears the tux.
    Check out my Amazon author page! Mark Loeffelholz
    "I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
    "Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,062MI6 Agent
    And, for the record, I think the Aston Martin and the vodka martinis should stay...as we continue to move forward in the 21st Century :007) ...regardless of who wears the tux.
    ASTON MARTIN LAGONDA LIMITED & SMIRNOFF INC. approve of this post.
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
    chrisisall wrote:
    And, for the record, I think the Aston Martin and the vodka martinis should stay...as we continue to move forward in the 21st Century :007) ...regardless of who wears the tux.
    ASTON MARTIN LAGONDA LIMITED & SMIRNOFF INC. approve of this post.

    ...And once their checks clear, we're ready to roll cameras B-)
    Check out my Amazon author page! Mark Loeffelholz
    "I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
    "Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,062MI6 Agent
    chrisisall wrote:
    And, for the record, I think the Aston Martin and the vodka martinis should stay...as we continue to move forward in the 21st Century :007) ...regardless of who wears the tux.
    ASTON MARTIN LAGONDA LIMITED & SMIRNOFF INC. approve of this post.

    ...And once their checks clear, we're ready to roll cameras B-)
    Precisely. :D
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • JagJag Posts: 1,167MI6 Agent
    Jag wrote:
    And as for a 21 century Bond, we are still waiting. !

    You've had that in the last four films...


    Technically, 5, not 4. But I mean something different - already explained above.
  • JagJag Posts: 1,167MI6 Agent
    I read your article at least twice, Loeffelholz, but I may have been distracted thinking what compels you to defend DC so much that most of it came across as white noise (*revenge completed*)! :))

    In fact, while waiting for a new Bond actor, I'm after much more than a new face. What if we get a new face and it is even worse? Like Matt S I would love an actor on Dalton's level, but it's much more complicated. Dalton is by far the best actor amongst those who portrayed 007, but his movies have not been the most successful. The reverse is also true - much worse actors have had successful movies.

    I really couldn't care less if Aston Martin and vodka Martinis stay or not. They are not what they used to be 50 years ago, so if they are reinvented, fine, and if something else replaces them - fine too.

    What annoys me is that Bond movies used to be about a good story. Now the form dominates the contents.

    And a DAD session is actually already planned... but thanks for suggesting it anyway!
  • zaphod99zaphod99 Posts: 1,415MI6 Agent
    Just
    Matt S wrote:

    Depends what we get. I think he has created something new and he will be missed when he is gone

    The next Bond had better be up to scratch...

    He will certainly be missed by a lot of people. I hope for the next Bond they can get a better actor, someone on Dalton's level.

    I actually think that Craig is quite an excellent actor, more 'method' in style that Dalton's classical training, but the chops are comparable. Craig (for all the guff he gets from some quarters, haha) handles the humour better than Dalton did.

    I'm a Dyed in the wool 'Daltonesta' but have to agree about the humour.Lord knows that I have had my issues with the Craggy one (mainly about him looking more like the doorman than the guest Yada Yada Yada...) but not for a moment would I say he is not a very fine actor. SP sees him loosen up a bit and he handles the humour well and judges it just right. Their are a number of serious disappointments with SP but Daniel is not one of them.
    Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
  • broadshoulderbroadshoulder Acton, London, UKPosts: 1,363MI6 Agent
    . My point with the piece, clearly missed by some, is that I feel that Craig's interpretation has opened new doors into untapped Fleming source material, whether he is any particular fan's cup of tea or not.

    Exactly
    1. For Your Eyes Only 2. The Living Daylights 3 From Russia with Love 4. Casino Royale 5. OHMSS 6. Skyfall
  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
    Jag wrote:
    I read your article at least twice, Loeffelholz, but I may have been distracted thinking what compels you to defend DC so much that most of it came across as white noise (*revenge completed*)! :))

    Very original; I remember junior high fondly, but wouldn't want to go back. Good to see you're still having fun there ;)
    Jag wrote:
    What annoys me is that Bond movies used to be about a good story. Now the form dominates the contents.

    That's because they're out of Fleming titles, and are having to scrounge for crumbs with poor craftsmen. I'll not defend the writing staff, but neither will I thump the actor for their shortcomings...else your boy Brozzer gets quite bruised, sadly. Enjoy that classic Bond/Jinx repartee! How clever it all was.
    Check out my Amazon author page! Mark Loeffelholz
    "I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
    "Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,062MI6 Agent
    Yo momma!
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,610MI6 Agent
    That's because they're out of Fleming titles, and are having to scrounge for crumbs with poor craftsmen.

    But they're not out of Fleming titles or material.
    Visit my blog, Bond Suits
  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
    Matt S wrote:
    That's because they're out of Fleming titles, and are having to scrounge for crumbs with poor craftsmen.

    But they're not out of Fleming titles or material.

    Of course. There are a number of unused elements---I detail a couple of them in the article---and entire storylines are available (although the remaining titles haven't been used for goid reason: they're the lacklustre dregs). My point is that their current stable of writers have pretty much proven that they're not up to the challenge.
    Check out my Amazon author page! Mark Loeffelholz
    "I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
    "Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,610MI6 Agent
    Matt S wrote:
    That's because they're out of Fleming titles, and are having to scrounge for crumbs with poor craftsmen.

    But they're not out of Fleming titles or material.

    Of course. There are a number of unused elements---I detail a couple of them in the article---and entire storylines are available (although the remaining titles haven't been used for goid reason: they're the lacklustre dregs). My point is that their current stable of writers have pretty much proven that they're not up to the challenge.

    Yes, I completely agree. YOLT and FAVTAK are the big ones that haven't been used. I wonder why the writers don't take FAVTAK and expand on it? YOLT wouldn't take much alteration to turn into a film. If they bring back Madeleine in the next film and kill her off at the start, YOLT would be perfect. And it would be consistent with Daniel Craig's other Bond films in tone and could work for his portrayal. The problem is that if there's a new Bond actor, it wouldn't work as a first film.
    Visit my blog, Bond Suits
  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
    Matt S wrote:
    Matt S wrote:

    But they're not out of Fleming titles or material.

    Of course. There are a number of unused elements---I detail a couple of them in the article---and entire storylines are available (although the remaining titles haven't been used for goid reason: they're the lacklustre dregs). My point is that their current stable of writers have pretty much proven that they're not up to the challenge.

    Yes, I completely agree. YOLT and FAVTAK are the big ones that haven't been used. I wonder why the writers don't take FAVTAK and expand on it? YOLT wouldn't take much alteration to turn into a film. If they bring back Madeleine in the next film and kill her off at the start, YOLT would be perfect. And it would be consistent with Daniel Craig's other Bond films in tone and could work for his portrayal. The problem is that if there's a new Bond actor, it wouldn't work as a first film.

    I really believe that they've been saving YOLT for a reason...and Craig's last picture seems the perfect time to pop the cork on that bottle. If I were to go to Vegas and bet money on Eon using a particular story for #25, that would be my wager :007)
    Check out my Amazon author page! Mark Loeffelholz
    "I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
    "Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,610MI6 Agent
    Matt S wrote:

    Of course. There are a number of unused elements---I detail a couple of them in the article---and entire storylines are available (although the remaining titles haven't been used for goid reason: they're the lacklustre dregs). My point is that their current stable of writers have pretty much proven that they're not up to the challenge.

    Yes, I completely agree. YOLT and FAVTAK are the big ones that haven't been used. I wonder why the writers don't take FAVTAK and expand on it? YOLT wouldn't take much alteration to turn into a film. If they bring back Madeleine in the next film and kill her off at the start, YOLT would be perfect. And it would be consistent with Daniel Craig's other Bond films in tone and could work for his portrayal. The problem is that if there's a new Bond actor, it wouldn't work as a first film.

    I really believe that they've been saving YOLT for a reason...and Craig's last picture seems the perfect time to pop the cork on that bottle. If I were to go to Vegas and bet money on Eon using a particular story for #25, that would be my wager :007)

    I hope you're right! And I think going with that story would help convince Craig to come back.
    Visit my blog, Bond Suits
  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
    Matt S wrote:
    Matt S wrote:

    Yes, I completely agree. YOLT and FAVTAK are the big ones that haven't been used. I wonder why the writers don't take FAVTAK and expand on it? YOLT wouldn't take much alteration to turn into a film. If they bring back Madeleine in the next film and kill her off at the start, YOLT would be perfect. And it would be consistent with Daniel Craig's other Bond films in tone and could work for his portrayal. The problem is that if there's a new Bond actor, it wouldn't work as a first film.

    I really believe that they've been saving YOLT for a reason...and Craig's last picture seems the perfect time to pop the cork on that bottle. If I were to go to Vegas and bet money on Eon using a particular story for #25, that would be my wager :007)

    I hope you're right! And I think going with that story would help convince Craig to come back.

    They could even end with Bond's memory loss, in the care of some Japanese lovely on an island somewhere...then Actor #7 is brought in when Bond recovers and rejoins MI6, and then status quo Bond with standalone missions going forward.

    The biggest problem with this, of course, is that SF has already gone to that 'missing, presumed dead' well, and drank deeply from it.
    Check out my Amazon author page! Mark Loeffelholz
    "I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
    "Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,610MI6 Agent
    Matt S wrote:

    I really believe that they've been saving YOLT for a reason...and Craig's last picture seems the perfect time to pop the cork on that bottle. If I were to go to Vegas and bet money on Eon using a particular story for #25, that would be my wager :007)

    I hope you're right! And I think going with that story would help convince Craig to come back.

    They could even end with Bond's memory loss, in the care of some Japanese lovely on an island somewhere...then Actor #7 is brought in when Bond recovers and rejoins MI6, and then status quo Bond with standalone missions going forward.

    The biggest problem with this, of course, is that SF has already gone to that 'missing, presumed dead' well, and drank deeply from it.

    I think the 'missing, presumed dead' thing would be much different in this case. Or they could change the ending and end it at the end of Bond's mission so not to repeat things. And they haven't hesitated to repeat things in Daniel Craig's Bond films.
    Visit my blog, Bond Suits
  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
    This is my #25 prediction...until Eon proves me wrong {[]
    Check out my Amazon author page! Mark Loeffelholz
    "I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
    "Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
  • AOKAOK Posts: 1MI6 Agent
    Craig's looks remind me of the face on a Troll Doll. The Denial Craig movies are good, but he is not James Bond, and never will be. The broke the mold after Sean Connery. Craig as Bond is about the same as the actor Verner Troyer playing the lead in a movie about the life of Micheal Jordan.
    I don't imagine Craig. While he is less "model-like" looking that all the other actors, he's still quite soft looking.

    That's interesting; I've heard many adjectives assigned to Craig, but 'soft looking' is a first.

    Soft looking in the sense he's got a rounder face, less pointy nose, larger forehead, close together eyes and typically pouts in his photographs. He's a very good looking man, but not in the sense of the classic looks of SC/PB etc.
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