Brilliant post..I like Dalton but the love for him and Craig is outta proportion & outta control . They seem to ignore audience reaction at the time and box office and cling to their own or other opinions they may have copied to makeup their own minds. -{
Who is this mysterious "they" you refer to? My admiration for Dalton and Craig stems from the simple fact that in my opinion the way they portray Bond works better for the character than some of the other portrayals. I'm sure many of their other fans feel the same way. You and some others disagree. That's fine. But the notion that Dalton and Craig fans are somehow out of control or brainwashed by the opinions of others seems to me to be as silly and unfair as the criticism of non-Dalton fans for not "getting it". Some fans love Connery, some are huge Moore fans, others lean more towards Dalton or Craig. And there are fans who legitimately feel that ALL of the Bond actors are deserving of equal praise. I just assume all of those opinions are based on genuine feelings and not the product of coercion, ignorance, brainwashing, etc.
Now I'm trying to figure out what post I responded to to get this reaction. -{
Connery, Can't complain seemed perfect for the role ( To me at least ) )
Lazenby, Good although a little wooden in places, due to inexperience I guess.
Moore, Fun but a little too much humor put in to his films.
Dalton, Great ( My favourite ) but a little awkward at times in fight scenes.
Craig, Seems to have made Bond "cool" again. The opposite of Moore in that his
films have lacked much humor although with Skyfall they IMHO have got the
mix of humor/ action / drama about right.
( In the past I disliked QOS, and made the mistake of heaping much criticism for it
on to Daniel Craig. Which was wrong, many people were to blame for its shortcomings.
Since starting to re-read the Bond novels, I now "get" what many were telling me about
how close to the literary Bond he is. )
The Bond Book of the Month is up and running in the Literary thread, LALD this Month and Moonraker in September,
For anyone wanting to reconnect with the novels or read them for the first time.
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
All of the Bond actors have brought something to the franchise in their own right, and all have a certain charisma.
Although Dalton is my least favourite Bond, having seen him in non-Bond films like Hot Fuzz, he is very charismatic, so you can see why he impressed the producers. Few other British mid-80s actors could match him as an ideal choice for Bond.
My only gripe, if that's what it is, is that he didn't bring that element of cool sexiness to the role that the other actors did. I enjoyed both TLD and, to a slightly lesser extent, LTK when I saw them at the cinema. But when I saw Goldeneye, I cheered because Brosnan just oozed charm and sexiness and I wanted to be Bond again... and IMO Dalton didn't have that indefinable quality that made me want to be him.
Let's face it, all the Bond actors have weaknesses as well as strengths (maybe a good topic for another thread)...
"How was your lamb?" "Skewered. One sympathises."
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,757Chief of Staff
My only gripe, if that's what it is, is that he didn't bring that element of cool sexiness to the role that the other actors did. I enjoyed both TLD and, to a slightly lesser extent, LTK when I saw them at the cinema. But when I saw Goldeneye, I cheered because Brosnan just oozed charm and sexiness and I wanted to be Bond again... and IMO Dalton didn't have that indefinable quality that made me want to him.
I would hazard a guess that that probably has more to do with YOUR interpretation of what/whom Bond is - and what, for you, makes a good Bond film rather than the actor himself....maybe Goldeneye is 'more' what you expect from a Bond film than Licence To Kill....?...
So far all ladies that enjoyed a viewing of a Bond movie with me where
8-) really??
when they saw Dalton.
Never happened with the other fellas.
Sir Miles will show up telling me that I don't know the right women - maybe we should ask Lexi, Mo and Alessandra about their opinion re. Daltons attraction to women
And I can already feel the outcoming - Sir Miles is wrong -{
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
So far all ladies that enjoyed a viewing of a Bond movie with me where
8-) really??
when they saw Dalton.
Never happened with the other fellas.
Sir Miles will show up telling me that I don't know the right women - maybe we should ask Lexi, Mo and Alessandra about their opinion re. Daltons attraction to women
And I can already feel the outcoming - Sir Miles is wrong -{
The 'right' women ? You don't know ANY women )
And you should know by now, Bondtots....I'm NEVER wrong B-)
YNWA 97
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,757Chief of Staff
Sorry, I discuss many other things over the course of a year. I do love Dalton, but I've recently been discussing Moore and Brosnan more.
I shall, however, endeavor to be less annoying about it, happy now? )
2,500 posts solely for Dalton praise wasn't seriously.
But the notion that Dalton and Craig fans are somehow out of control or brainwashed by the opinions of others seems to me to be as silly and unfair as the criticism of non-Dalton fans for not "getting it". Some fans love Connery, some are huge Moore fans, others lean more towards Dalton or Craig. And there are fans who legitimately feel that ALL of the Bond actors are deserving of equal praise. I just assume all of those opinions are based on genuine feelings and not the product of coercion, ignorance, brainwashing
Blackleiter, you are definitely not one of those I had in mind although your critique of Roger Moore has been quite harsh frequently.
As Connery is your favourite Bond and GF your favourite film (like mine for many years) you are firmly rooted within the cinematic Bond tradition and far from the die-hard-Daltonist/Flemingist corner where the "rot" already set in with GF.
There are enough Flemingist members, e.g. Donald Grant and Loeffelholz, who read the Fleming novels but, in contrast to the die-hard Flemingists, at the same time also can enjoy the films and acknowledge that for the films to become an ongoing success the character had to be made more palpable for a larger audience.
Of course everyone is entitled to his opinion regarding his favourite actors and films. Disliking Moore because of lacking physicality in fights is as much a valid opinion as disliking others because of wooden acting, being out of shape, awkward delivery of lines, lacking charisma or screen presence. Even being too old, having blond hair or being too small.
But that's a huge difference to attacking the fans of others actors like "brainwashed minions who actually pay to watch a mug-eared midget", "Moore? - Clown suit, need I say more?" as if Moore fans watch the films solely because of this or the double-take pigeons, and not to forget the "stupid audiences at the time". X-(
(These lines all come more or less directly from the aggressive die-hard-Daltonist/Flemingist corner.)
(These lines all come more or less directly from the aggressive die-hard-Daltonist/Flemingist corner.)
Or more or less directly from the ether....but, giving you a chance to prove me wrong - whom exactly do you attribute those quotes too..?..and whom would you put in the 'Daltonist/Flemingist corner' ?
YNWA 97
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,757Chief of Staff
It's been pointed out by fans greater than I that Moore in the clown suit represented danger (the last agent in a clown suit died) and ironic juxtaposition (a comical visage in the most serious of situations). To see that great moment in Moore/Bond history as simply silly is to admit watching movies on the most child-like of levels. -{
Edsel owners are proud of their cars but they won't tell you that the Edsel was the greatest car ever made, years ahead of its time and the auto-buying public in 1958/59 was so extremely stupid.
Well, you are right about all but the part I bolded, and I do know some Edsel fanatics. To be fair, most point out that the 1960 Edsel (i.e. "the one that looked like a Pontiac") was ahead of its time mostly in styling, as was the concept car known as Edsel Comet, which would have been the first upscale compact car in American history. They'll tell you how Pontiac stole the '60 grille from Edsel and made it into an American icon and then go on about how the Comet, which was eventually (not immediately!) branded as a Mercury, could have saved Edsel since it was part of a totally new market. Okay, now I'm gonna bail on this thread, but trust me, get to know some Edsel nuts and they start telling you just how "ahead of its time" the '60 Edsel and Edsel Comet were to the point of coming across as being Tatra T77's... )
Sorry, I discuss many other things over the course of a year. I do love Dalton, but I've recently been discussing Moore and Brosnan more.
I shall, however, endeavor to be less annoying about it, happy now? )
2,500 posts solely for Dalton praise wasn't seriously.
But the notion that Dalton and Craig fans are somehow out of control or brainwashed by the opinions of others seems to me to be as silly and unfair as the criticism of non-Dalton fans for not "getting it". Some fans love Connery, some are huge Moore fans, others lean more towards Dalton or Craig. And there are fans who legitimately feel that ALL of the Bond actors are deserving of equal praise. I just assume all of those opinions are based on genuine feelings and not the product of coercion, ignorance, brainwashing
Blackleiter, you are definitely not one of those I had in mind although your critique of Roger Moore has been quite harsh frequently.
As Connery is your favourite Bond and GF your favourite film (like mine for many years) you are firmly rooted within the cinematic Bond tradition and far from the die-hard-Daltonist/Flemingist corner where the "rot" already set in with GF.
There are enough Flemingist members, e.g. Donald Grant and Loeffelholz, who read the Fleming novels but, in contrast to the die-hard Flemingists, at the same time also can enjoy the films and acknowledge that for the films to become an ongoing success the character had to be made more palpable for a larger audience.
Of course everyone is entitled to his opinion regarding his favourite actors and films. Disliking Moore because of lacking physicality in fights is as much a valid opinion as disliking others because of wooden acting, being out of shape, awkward delivery of lines, lacking charisma or screen presence. Even being too old, having blond hair or being too small.
But that's a huge difference to attacking the fans of others actors like "brainwashed minions who actually pay to watch a mug-eared midget", "Moore? - Clown suit, need I say more?" as if Moore fans watch the films solely because of this or the double-take pigeons, and not to forget the "stupid audiences at the time". X-(
(These lines all come more or less directly from the aggressive die-hard-Daltonist/Flemingist corner.)
You make some valid points, my friend, and I'll admit that sometimes I am a bit hard on Ole Rog. As I have stated before, my criticisms of Moore stem from the fact that he doesn't possess the element of danger that I prefer in my Bond, nor does he handle the action scenes very well. Moreover, the constant joking and eye-brow raising annoy me, but I realize that Moore wasn't responsible for the scripts or the more light-hearted Bond that the producers were going for. He's a decent enough actor, but just weak as Bond, in my opinion. But I think if you read my posts you will agree that I don't claim that those who prefer Moore to the other actors are foolish or uninformed or just plain wrong. They like what they like - simple as that. Same with those fans who praise Dalton. Anyway, I appreciate your recognition that I am not a part of the strictly Dalton/Flemingist cadre you were referring to. I'm merely a Bond movie fan. -{
Dalton has become one of the most respected, if not the most respected, Bonds over the years. He might not have found the audience at the time, but over the years almost everyone has grown to love that Bond it seems. Personally, he is my favourite now after Brosnan had been for a while.
Just really wish he got one more film... though if anything, he would have taken the role in Goldeneye and who knows if Brosnan still would have played the role then.
Top Ten Bond - 10:Goldfinger 9:Thunderball 8:The Spy who Loved Me 7:For Your Eyes Only 6: Casino Royale 5:The Man with the Golden Gun 4:Quantum of Solace 3:Licence to Kill 2:Goldeneye 1:The Living Daylights
Dalton has become one of the most respected, if not the most respected, Bonds over the years. He might not have found the audience at the time, but over the years almost everyone has grown to love that Bond it seems
Do you have anything to back your claim up or is it just the usual Timboy glorification - so a personal opinion?
If it's the later you should label it as such.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Do you have anything to back your claim up or is it just the usual Timboy glorification
Bondtots, you REALLY need to ease up on your Dalton hate. His is a valid interpretation, and the fact that some prefer his to others should be of no visceral concern to you. Watch Connery, you'll feel better.
I share RWs opinion about your change in personal opinion and the degree of fanatism that you are following this. IMO You are certainly one of "them".
That's why I refrain from commenting to your "contributions".
As my comment, I find the question legitimate, if I recall correctly, I have been constantly asked to back up my claim that the Dalton Bonds flopped at the bo - which I did
If something is my interpretation, you'll mostly find it labelled like that.
And please don't bother to "confront" me with posts where I have forgotten it 8-)
As a personal remark, I find that you rarely understand any kind of humor.
And you have no idea, what banter is and when it happens.
I have some very good friends here who get the honor to be called "morons" or worse from me.
Like I said, it's an honor to be called like that from me in public. The fact that they address me in a similar way has nothing to do with our real feelings against each other - something that you may never understand
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,757Chief of Staff
if I recall correctly, I have been constantly asked to back up my claim that the Dalton Bonds flopped at the bo - which I did
This is another instance of 'Granny knows best'
Neither of Dalton's films 'flopped' at the box office....both made a healthy profit....to say anything else is silly....maybe they didn't make as MUCH profit as was hoped for - but we can't know that for certain, unless Babs & Mickey say so in public...
I also think its perfectly acceptable for people to change their opinions...as one gets older its POSSIBLE one gets wiser B-) Just look at how MANY changed their opinion of Craig...so I hold no store at all by the comments of 'RW'....even more so as I asked him a question that he has neglected to answer, a sure sign of 'facts made up syndrome'
Remember people...88.75% of all statistics are made up )
Comments
Now I'm trying to figure out what post I responded to to get this reaction. -{
Connery, Can't complain seemed perfect for the role ( To me at least )
Lazenby, Good although a little wooden in places, due to inexperience I guess.
Moore, Fun but a little too much humor put in to his films.
Dalton, Great ( My favourite ) but a little awkward at times in fight scenes.
Craig, Seems to have made Bond "cool" again. The opposite of Moore in that his
films have lacked much humor although with Skyfall they IMHO have got the
mix of humor/ action / drama about right.
( In the past I disliked QOS, and made the mistake of heaping much criticism for it
on to Daniel Craig. Which was wrong, many people were to blame for its shortcomings.
Since starting to re-read the Bond novels, I now "get" what many were telling me about
how close to the literary Bond he is. )
The Bond Book of the Month is up and running in the Literary thread, LALD this Month and Moonraker in September,
For anyone wanting to reconnect with the novels or read them for the first time.
Although Dalton is my least favourite Bond, having seen him in non-Bond films like Hot Fuzz, he is very charismatic, so you can see why he impressed the producers. Few other British mid-80s actors could match him as an ideal choice for Bond.
My only gripe, if that's what it is, is that he didn't bring that element of cool sexiness to the role that the other actors did. I enjoyed both TLD and, to a slightly lesser extent, LTK when I saw them at the cinema. But when I saw Goldeneye, I cheered because Brosnan just oozed charm and sexiness and I wanted to be Bond again... and IMO Dalton didn't have that indefinable quality that made me want to be him.
Let's face it, all the Bond actors have weaknesses as well as strengths (maybe a good topic for another thread)...
I would hazard a guess that that probably has more to do with YOUR interpretation of what/whom Bond is - and what, for you, makes a good Bond film rather than the actor himself....maybe Goldeneye is 'more' what you expect from a Bond film than Licence To Kill....?...
8-) really??
when they saw Dalton.
Never happened with the other fellas.
Sir Miles will show up telling me that I don't know the right women - maybe we should ask Lexi, Mo and Alessandra about their opinion re. Daltons attraction to women
And I can already feel the outcoming - Sir Miles is wrong -{
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Bond is many things to many people and we all absolutely have our own interpretations. -{
The 'right' women ? You don't know ANY women
And you should know by now, Bondtots....I'm NEVER wrong B-)
Yes...perhaps I should hit Bondtots on the head...?...maybe then he'd see the logic -{
:v really Sah Miles?
You should not believe everything that I am telling good ole Granny
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
2,500 posts solely for Dalton praise wasn't seriously.
Blackleiter, you are definitely not one of those I had in mind although your critique of Roger Moore has been quite harsh frequently.
As Connery is your favourite Bond and GF your favourite film (like mine for many years) you are firmly rooted within the cinematic Bond tradition and far from the die-hard-Daltonist/Flemingist corner where the "rot" already set in with GF.
There are enough Flemingist members, e.g. Donald Grant and Loeffelholz, who read the Fleming novels but, in contrast to the die-hard Flemingists, at the same time also can enjoy the films and acknowledge that for the films to become an ongoing success the character had to be made more palpable for a larger audience.
Of course everyone is entitled to his opinion regarding his favourite actors and films. Disliking Moore because of lacking physicality in fights is as much a valid opinion as disliking others because of wooden acting, being out of shape, awkward delivery of lines, lacking charisma or screen presence. Even being too old, having blond hair or being too small.
But that's a huge difference to attacking the fans of others actors like "brainwashed minions who actually pay to watch a mug-eared midget", "Moore? - Clown suit, need I say more?" as if Moore fans watch the films solely because of this or the double-take pigeons, and not to forget the "stupid audiences at the time". X-(
(These lines all come more or less directly from the aggressive die-hard-Daltonist/Flemingist corner.)
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Or more or less directly from the ether....but, giving you a chance to prove me wrong - whom exactly do you attribute those quotes too..?..and whom would you put in the 'Daltonist/Flemingist corner' ?
Ah...but 'good ole granny' knows many things
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Roger Moore 1927-2017
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Well, you are right about all but the part I bolded, and I do know some Edsel fanatics. To be fair, most point out that the 1960 Edsel (i.e. "the one that looked like a Pontiac") was ahead of its time mostly in styling, as was the concept car known as Edsel Comet, which would have been the first upscale compact car in American history. They'll tell you how Pontiac stole the '60 grille from Edsel and made it into an American icon and then go on about how the Comet, which was eventually (not immediately!) branded as a Mercury, could have saved Edsel since it was part of a totally new market. Okay, now I'm gonna bail on this thread, but trust me, get to know some Edsel nuts and they start telling you just how "ahead of its time" the '60 Edsel and Edsel Comet were to the point of coming across as being Tatra T77's...
True...but Granny STILL knows twice as much as you
You make some valid points, my friend, and I'll admit that sometimes I am a bit hard on Ole Rog. As I have stated before, my criticisms of Moore stem from the fact that he doesn't possess the element of danger that I prefer in my Bond, nor does he handle the action scenes very well. Moreover, the constant joking and eye-brow raising annoy me, but I realize that Moore wasn't responsible for the scripts or the more light-hearted Bond that the producers were going for. He's a decent enough actor, but just weak as Bond, in my opinion. But I think if you read my posts you will agree that I don't claim that those who prefer Moore to the other actors are foolish or uninformed or just plain wrong. They like what they like - simple as that. Same with those fans who praise Dalton. Anyway, I appreciate your recognition that I am not a part of the strictly Dalton/Flemingist cadre you were referring to. I'm merely a Bond movie fan. -{
I appreciate the confidence in my abilities!
No, it isn't- please see the PM I've sent you.
Just really wish he got one more film... though if anything, he would have taken the role in Goldeneye and who knows if Brosnan still would have played the role then.
Do you have anything to back your claim up or is it just the usual Timboy glorification - so a personal opinion?
If it's the later you should label it as such.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
I share RWs opinion about your change in personal opinion and the degree of fanatism that you are following this. IMO You are certainly one of "them".
That's why I refrain from commenting to your "contributions".
As my comment, I find the question legitimate, if I recall correctly, I have been constantly asked to back up my claim that the Dalton Bonds flopped at the bo - which I did
If something is my interpretation, you'll mostly find it labelled like that.
And please don't bother to "confront" me with posts where I have forgotten it 8-)
As a personal remark, I find that you rarely understand any kind of humor.
And you have no idea, what banter is and when it happens.
I have some very good friends here who get the honor to be called "morons" or worse from me.
Like I said, it's an honor to be called like that from me in public. The fact that they address me in a similar way has nothing to do with our real feelings against each other - something that you may never understand
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
This is another instance of 'Granny knows best'
Neither of Dalton's films 'flopped' at the box office....both made a healthy profit....to say anything else is silly....maybe they didn't make as MUCH profit as was hoped for - but we can't know that for certain, unless Babs & Mickey say so in public...
I also think its perfectly acceptable for people to change their opinions...as one gets older its POSSIBLE one gets wiser B-) Just look at how MANY changed their opinion of Craig...so I hold no store at all by the comments of 'RW'....even more so as I asked him a question that he has neglected to answer, a sure sign of 'facts made up syndrome'
Remember people...88.75% of all statistics are made up
So you say....