superadoRegent's Park West (CaliforniaPosts: 2,656MI6 Agent
I think the irreverent Bond is overplayed. Sure, the naughty schoolboy Bond became part of the charm, started by Connery and carried on by Moore and Brosnan, but I think that because Dalton was the first to play the disrespectful Bond, he owned it and anytime it's repeated, it's just that, a rehash to play up dramatics and intensity in the character by making him morose and "gritty." Of course, it’s all supposed to be a nod to the literary Bond that is IMO an attempt of which ever current production team to make their film a cut above the routine, affable Bond. In reality, Bond in the books never crossed that line though he harbored thoughts of quitting his job and it was Lazenby who put flesh on those bones, but again as I mentioned, it was Dalton who developed the theme a step further and really set his Bond apart from those who came before.
On the burnt-out Bond, in the books it was the latter part of the character arc that paralleled Fleming’s own middle-aged experiences. In contrast prior to that, Bond’s attitude and behavior were more of indifference and general contentment. With that said, in the film series I do not think you can go on keeping Bond in a burnt-out, cynical state to the point where it becomes normative at which you will then have a Bond persona of an angry old man, made older before his time…that will become tiring so fast and no fun at all to watch.
"...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....
in the film series I do not think you can go on keeping Bond in a burnt-out, cynical state to the point where it becomes normative at which you will then have a Bond persona of an angry old man, made older before his time…that will become tiring so fast and no fun at all to watch.
Exactly, and thanks for my favourite post on the matter so far! -{
Bond must have realized at some point that every man wants to be him and every woman wants to be with him so he might as well enjoy it while it lasts and not be so negative about it.
A burnt out Bond is bad for the series. What's next? Burnt out producers, burnt out directors, burnt out fans ? Not the attitude we want to keep a 50+ year franchise going.
After watching The Wolverine my friend commented, "Why do all these superhero movies have to be about them not wanting to be a superhero? Why can't one just be like "whoa this is rad".
Moore & Brosnan rule.
My current 10 favorite:
1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
Bond must have realized at some point that every man wants to be him and every woman wants to be with him so he might as well enjoy it while it lasts and not be so negative about it.
Let's think about that for a moment. The character, British agent James Bond, sent to do a job for Her Majesty's Secret Service that involves extreme danger and violence, and which could have important implications for international security, goes around thinking about how "cool" he is? Seems like a dubious proposition to me. Sure, us movie fans who go to the cinema and marvel at the adventures of 007 probably think about him that way. But I find it hard to believe that it was ever the intention for Bond to consciously view himself that way.
The character, British agent James Bond, sent to do a job for Her Majesty's Secret Service that involves extreme danger and violence, and which could have important implications for international security, goes around thinking about how "cool" he is? Seems like a dubious proposition to me.
Me too. He's like a dinosaur as described in Jurassic Park- he just does what he does... )
Bond must have realized at some point that every man wants to be him and every woman wants to be with him so he might as well enjoy it while it lasts and not be so negative about it.
Let's think about that for a moment. The character, British agent James Bond, sent to do a job for Her Majesty's Secret Service that involves extreme danger and violence, and which could have important implications for international security, goes around thinking about how "cool" he is? Seems like a dubious proposition to me. Sure, us movie fans who go to the cinema and marvel at the adventures of 007 probably think about him that way. But I find it hard to believe that it was ever the intention for Bond to consciously view himself that way.
Blackleiter,
You're right. When I first typed that I was going to mention the cliche "that every man wants to be him etc..." but then I began to wonder if Bond is self-aware. Obviously he doesn't know of his fan base, but he does know that he's the best in the business. His job is super cool and the women seem to love him.
Then there's the debate whether he's a secret agent vs. a famous agent. Personally, I like to think of Bond as NOT being well known around the world. Rather, he is the best at his job and certainly enjoys some aspects of it. On the other hand, he doesn't like killing and he's had a lot of friends die. So yeah, I can see him getting frustrated, depressed, burnt out from time to time.
My current 10 favorite:
1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
Bond must have realized at some point that every man wants to be him and every woman wants to be with him so he might as well enjoy it while it lasts and not be so negative about it.
Let's think about that for a moment. The character, British agent James Bond, sent to do a job for Her Majesty's Secret Service that involves extreme danger and violence, and which could have important implications for international security, goes around thinking about how "cool" he is? Seems like a dubious proposition to me. Sure, us movie fans who go to the cinema and marvel at the adventures of 007 probably think about him that way. But I find it hard to believe that it was ever the intention for Bond to consciously view himself that way.
BL, you're absolutely right.
Bond's character does become more self-aware in the novels (as well as the movies!) and by the last third of the Flming books - from say Thunderball and OHMSS onwards - his health and nerves suffer and he becomes almost depressed about his life and his potential lifespan as well as by everything that's happened to him.
Fleming also mentions in Moonraker the shooting instructor believes Bond is one of the best shots in he service - but not the best, implying that Bond is not some superhero..
I find it hard to believe that it was ever the intention for Bond to consciously view himself that way.
I agree. Otherwise, you'd be stuck with an uber-Marty Stu Bond who would just be as boring as watching the grass grow (and turn into a whiny, petulant jerk). To be honest, no actor portraying Bond ever did that.
To me my favourite Bond is the Bond that is confident, razor sharp, on top of his game, but without the snobbish/know it all attitude and the comical relief.
So not the cocky Moore, who finished the lines of others (bloody annoying habbit!!) and makes a joke of everything. Nor do I like the semi-depressed hitman style of Craig too much or the grumpy Dalton.
I prefer Connery's flair of the first 5 Bond's and also a touch of Brosnan from his first 3 Bond's. Class, confidence, relaxed, in control, some wit...perfect.
I prefer Connery's flair of the first 5 Bond's and also a touch of Brosnan from his first 3 Bond's. Class, confidence, relaxed, in control, some wit...perfect.
While your dismissal of Dalton disturbs me (Don't worry, I'll not use the Force choke on you), I'll admit that your take is basically sound. They were the best purely cinematic Bonds (many with a Fleming touch). It won't get much better than that for serious fun.
Comments
On the burnt-out Bond, in the books it was the latter part of the character arc that paralleled Fleming’s own middle-aged experiences. In contrast prior to that, Bond’s attitude and behavior were more of indifference and general contentment. With that said, in the film series I do not think you can go on keeping Bond in a burnt-out, cynical state to the point where it becomes normative at which you will then have a Bond persona of an angry old man, made older before his time…that will become tiring so fast and no fun at all to watch.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
A burnt out Bond is bad for the series. What's next? Burnt out producers, burnt out directors, burnt out fans ? Not the attitude we want to keep a 50+ year franchise going.
After watching The Wolverine my friend commented, "Why do all these superhero movies have to be about them not wanting to be a superhero? Why can't one just be like "whoa this is rad".
Moore & Brosnan rule.
1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Let's think about that for a moment. The character, British agent James Bond, sent to do a job for Her Majesty's Secret Service that involves extreme danger and violence, and which could have important implications for international security, goes around thinking about how "cool" he is? Seems like a dubious proposition to me. Sure, us movie fans who go to the cinema and marvel at the adventures of 007 probably think about him that way. But I find it hard to believe that it was ever the intention for Bond to consciously view himself that way.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Blackleiter,
You're right. When I first typed that I was going to mention the cliche "that every man wants to be him etc..." but then I began to wonder if Bond is self-aware. Obviously he doesn't know of his fan base, but he does know that he's the best in the business. His job is super cool and the women seem to love him.
Then there's the debate whether he's a secret agent vs. a famous agent. Personally, I like to think of Bond as NOT being well known around the world. Rather, he is the best at his job and certainly enjoys some aspects of it. On the other hand, he doesn't like killing and he's had a lot of friends die. So yeah, I can see him getting frustrated, depressed, burnt out from time to time.
1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
BL, you're absolutely right.
Bond's character does become more self-aware in the novels (as well as the movies!) and by the last third of the Flming books - from say Thunderball and OHMSS onwards - his health and nerves suffer and he becomes almost depressed about his life and his potential lifespan as well as by everything that's happened to him.
Fleming also mentions in Moonraker the shooting instructor believes Bond is one of the best shots in he service - but not the best, implying that Bond is not some superhero..
"Yes, well I have exactly 55 minutes to catch that flight, sir." - Bond with a sense of excitement of going out on another mission.
1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
"Oh, Mr. Bond!*"
*a variant of the famous "Oh, James!"
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
I agree. Otherwise, you'd be stuck with an uber-Marty Stu Bond who would just be as boring as watching the grass grow (and turn into a whiny, petulant jerk). To be honest, no actor portraying Bond ever did that.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Roger Moore 1927-2017
As Asp9mm prefers to copy&paste and frequents some pretty dodgy fora, I guess that it was him
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Calling me a Timboy is possibly the worst insult you've ever hurled my way. He was like the uncool kid at school acting at being all macho and cool.
Guys, get a room.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Yes...but that's enough about bondtots
So not the cocky Moore, who finished the lines of others (bloody annoying habbit!!) and makes a joke of everything. Nor do I like the semi-depressed hitman style of Craig too much or the grumpy Dalton.
I prefer Connery's flair of the first 5 Bond's and also a touch of Brosnan from his first 3 Bond's. Class, confidence, relaxed, in control, some wit...perfect.
1. Connery 2. Craig 3. Brosnan 4. Dalton 5. Lazenby 6. Moore
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS