Have you ever thought "this is the end"?
Dalkowski110
Posts: 1,314MI6 Agent
Perhaps I should be a bit more specific than the title. Obviously, we wouldn't be on a forum for the discussion of James Bond films if our fandom of James Bond actually wavered. What I'm wondering about is if there was ever a moment in James Bond filmdom where you looked at the screen, saw something, and concluded the franchise was most likely done, or at the very least "done as we know it".
Note there there are a few guidelines and caveats to this. Let's say, for example, that you watched MR and decided "okay, that's it, this movie is NOT in my personal Bond canon!" That's fine, but did you think the franchise was outright finished afterward? If so, I'd like to hear why. But if you were thinking "they better make a good movie in the next go-round!", then that implies you didn't think the franchise was finished. Likewise, let's say you were around during the McClory lawsuit and thought "okay, this is the end of the franchise, or at least as we know it." Fair enough, but again, what I'm wondering about is if there was ever a moment in James Bond filmdom where you looked at the screen, saw something, and concluded the franchise was most likely finished.
Finally, if you saw a Bond actor you thought was done, but you thought the franchise would carry on relatively unaltered, I'm not counting that either. I'm thinking of literal moments where you looked at the screen, saw something, and thought to yourself "the franchise has been irreversably ruined" or alternately "they're going to have to shake the whole thing up after this."
For me, personally, the moment I saw Colonel Moon's Robocop/Mr. Freeze suit in DAD, I thought that was the end of Bond. Not even Bond as we knew the franchise, just flat out "the end". Similarly, after my father watched DAF in the theater, although he concluded that the franchise would go on, he also concluded that that was the end of Bond as we knew him and that there would be no more Flemingism on the screen.
What about your experiences? I'd like to hear about them and also why.
Note there there are a few guidelines and caveats to this. Let's say, for example, that you watched MR and decided "okay, that's it, this movie is NOT in my personal Bond canon!" That's fine, but did you think the franchise was outright finished afterward? If so, I'd like to hear why. But if you were thinking "they better make a good movie in the next go-round!", then that implies you didn't think the franchise was finished. Likewise, let's say you were around during the McClory lawsuit and thought "okay, this is the end of the franchise, or at least as we know it." Fair enough, but again, what I'm wondering about is if there was ever a moment in James Bond filmdom where you looked at the screen, saw something, and concluded the franchise was most likely finished.
Finally, if you saw a Bond actor you thought was done, but you thought the franchise would carry on relatively unaltered, I'm not counting that either. I'm thinking of literal moments where you looked at the screen, saw something, and thought to yourself "the franchise has been irreversably ruined" or alternately "they're going to have to shake the whole thing up after this."
For me, personally, the moment I saw Colonel Moon's Robocop/Mr. Freeze suit in DAD, I thought that was the end of Bond. Not even Bond as we knew the franchise, just flat out "the end". Similarly, after my father watched DAF in the theater, although he concluded that the franchise would go on, he also concluded that that was the end of Bond as we knew him and that there would be no more Flemingism on the screen.
What about your experiences? I'd like to hear about them and also why.
By the way, are you gonna eat that?
Comments
When I saw they were going to do TMWTGG next, I knew I would probably go see it and I knew I would probably be disappointed. Lo and behold, it was worse than LALD and I thought they couldn't get any worse. It took a couple of films, but I realized as long as Moore was in EON was going to keep doing the films as farce. FYEO and OCTOP relieved my pain somewhat, but total enjoyment never really returned until Dalton showed up.
Interesting thread.
I thought Bond was over, I mean seriously finished after LTK. Now, I loved the movie, don't get me wrong. But after the long long gap. Thought really it was over.
Does that count?
First Bond I saw was Goldeneye in 96 on LaserDisc. Even up through Skyfall I never gave it much thought. Now that I look back at it, Die Another Day could have been a moment like that for me, but when I was watching it, I still enjoyed it and never thought it would be the last Bond film ever.
Looking back, there were a few films that COULD have been the end of Bond in my opinion:
1.) Live and Let Die - After DAF and Sean's 2nd departure, the series hit a breaking point. It NEEDED a success with LALD and Roger Moore saved the franchise with a new, fresh approach to Bond. Moore is quite a polarizing Bond today, but back then he is just what the series needed. LALD went on to be the 4th highest gross (inflation adjusted) in the series.
2.) GoldenEye - The biggest breaking point the series hit in my opinion. While I love the Dalton films, and by any other movie standards they were a success, it still remains that TLD and LTK were 2 of the 3 lowest grossing Bond films (inflation adjusted), with AVTAK being the 2nd lowest. That is three straight films of poor results by Bond standards. Factor in all the delays, the end of the cold war, and what amounted to a 6-year layoff; if GoldenEye wasn't a success, the series would have been in serious jeopardy. It was both a critical and financial success and ended any doubt of the franchise ending.
3.) Casino Royale - Die Another Day was seen as a critical failure by the masses and the franchise was reverting back to the campy style that went out of style years ago. The franchise needed a grittier approach and Craig brought that which again ended any doubt of the franchise ending.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Is this intended to suggest that DAD and CR are on par when it comes the "tone" of the films, or am I misinterpreting your comment? If it's the former, I want some of what you're drinking, because it's making you blissfully loopy!
Sure! I admit I implied it, but this line, here...
"Likewise, let's say you were around during the McClory lawsuit and thought 'okay, this is the end of the franchise, or at least as we know it.' Fair enough, but again, what I'm wondering about is if there was ever a moment in James Bond filmdom where you looked at the screen, saw something, and concluded the franchise was most likely finished."
...was meant to convey that it counted, although if someone had an experience whereby they actually were watching a movie and thought "okay, this is the end", I would prefer they give the latter. But if they didn't, then the former is perfectly acceptable.
Then FYEO came out and I gave it a try, and lo & behold, Bond was back, to a degree. I saw the rest, but it wasn't until TLD that I realized that Bond had a definite future!
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
1. GoldenEye 2. Goldfinger 3. Skyfall 4. OHMSS 5. TWINE
it had a 15cert, so didn't make as big a profit. I did think that this might
be the end for the series.
( I did like the film and it's in my top five. It simply loks a little cheap
in places. )
You know, I never gave that thought. I mean, I realized that LTK's production values were lower than TLD's and AVTAK's, but I just never bothered to think about the angle that they were, while not making the movie completely on the cheap, seemingly directing most of their SFX budget, for example, to the tanker chase.
For most films, LTK was not low-budget. To say nothing of the fact that I love the film and it does indeed have one of the best villains in the series. But for an established, post-Connery Bond, it seems to have been comparatively low-budget. I'm guessing EON put tons of money into GE because they knew people were starving for a Bond film...and lo and behold, it paid off.
I know that won't be a popular view but I despised that movie and the way it robbed Bond of all his history and totally deconstructed everything I loved about the character. After sitting thru that one I really would have been perfectly happy if they never made another Bond movie again.
The films and Craig's take on the character have improved since then (I was actually able to enjoy Skyfall) but I'll always hate CR because it is very much the antithesis of what I look for in a Bond movie.
My impressions exactly. SF was the first movie in which I was able to accept Craig as Bond, but I still can't wait to see him gone.
Hopefully the wait will be long!
Not often we disagree, BL!
Well, at the speed they make Bond movies nowadays we could have another 6-8 years of Daniel yet B-)
Tone is different, lead actor different, but same writers, same plotholes, same snags for me.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
1. Connery 2. Craig 3. Brosnan 4. Dalton 5. Lazenby 6. Moore
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