Licence to Kill Walther PPK

paulfrasercollect · October 2013

Hi all,

The Walther PPK used by Timothy Dalton in Licence to Kill is selling at Julien's Auctions on November 9:

http://www.paulfrasercollectibles.com/News/Timothy-Dalton%27s-Walther-PPK-pistol-to-make-$30,000?/15345.page?catid=26

What would be your favourite weapon from any of the Bond films to own?

Cheers,

Joe

PPK 7.65mm · October 2013

Looks really good, wish that I could afford it for my collection.

Asp9mm · October 2013

That was never used in the film. It's one of Stembridge's dodgy pieces. Dalton never used a pre war Zella PPK. All the PPK's supplied for the LTK production came from Bapty. Donk will confirm.

always shaken · October 2013

you guys knowledge on all things that go bang ,never ceases to amaze me ,nice one ASP9MM
but in regards to 1st question part 2, I wouldn't mind owning that 44 or is it a 357 magnum
from LALD ,that big Rog used at the end of the film

Thunderpussy · October 2013

-{ I too am amazed at times by the knowledge here.

always shaken · October 2013

Thunderpussy wrote:

-{ I too am amazed at times by the knowledge here.

yes perhaps we should put a team forward for university challenge

)

minigeff · October 2013

always shaken wrote:

Thunderpussy wrote:

-{ I too am amazed at times by the knowledge here.

yes perhaps we should put a team forward for university challenge )

If there was a team getting together for universally challenged I'd step up for team craptain.

The Domino Effect · October 2013

minigeff wrote:

always shaken wrote:

Thunderpussy wrote:

-{ I too am amazed at times by the knowledge here.

yes perhaps we should put a team forward for university challenge )

If there was a team getting together for universally challenged I'd step up for team craptain.

Pork!

Sir Miles · October 2013

Asp9mm wrote:

That was never used in the film. It's one of Stembridge's dodgy pieces. Dalton never used a pre war Zella PPK. All the PPK's supplied for the LTK production came from Bapty. Donk will confirm.

Excellent stuff...this invaluable information stops AJB members getting ripped off...thanks -{

Peppermill · October 2013

Sir Miles wrote:

Asp9mm wrote:

That was never used in the film. It's one of Stembridge's dodgy pieces. Dalton never used a pre war Zella PPK. All the PPK's supplied for the LTK production came from Bapty. Donk will confirm.

Excellent stuff...this invaluable information stops AJB members getting ripped off...thanks -{

Couldn't have said it better myself!

danjaq_0ff · October 2013

minigeff wrote:

always shaken wrote:

Thunderpussy wrote:

-{ I too am amazed at times by the knowledge here.

yes perhaps we should put a team forward for university challenge )

If there was a team getting together for universally challenged I'd step up for team craptain.

You would be better off being the mascot :v

Higgins · October 2013

Sir Miles wrote:

Asp9mm wrote:

That was never used in the film. It's one of Stembridge's dodgy pieces. Dalton never used a pre war Zella PPK. All the PPK's supplied for the LTK production came from Bapty. Donk will confirm.

Excellent stuff...this invaluable information stops AJB members getting ripped off...thanks -{

Ah ****, now what am I wasting these 30k for?

Sir Miles · October 2013

Bondtoys wrote:

Sir Miles wrote:

Asp9mm wrote:

That was never used in the film. It's one of Stembridge's dodgy pieces. Dalton never used a pre war Zella PPK. All the PPK's supplied for the LTK production came from Bapty. Donk will confirm.

Excellent stuff...this invaluable information stops AJB members getting ripped off...thanks -{

Ah ****, now what am I wasting these 30k for?

Knowing you on another crappy watch

walther p99 · October 2013

I Saw Dalton's LTK PPK on display at the national firearm museum in Fairfax Virginia this summer. I guess you guys will tell me if its authentic or not

)

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Asp9mm · October 2013

It has the correct grips, but it's another pre-war Zella made model. NEVER EVER used on screen. It's another Stembridge special. The real screen used gun is still in the UK, as are Pam's Beretta's.

Those Licence to Kill Stembridge guns have been doing the rounds as screen used guns for a number of years and have been fetching big bucks by collectors that think they have a real Bond PPK. The truth is sadly very different. If people just watched the DVD before bidding, they would see the truth right there on their own TV. A pre war Zella PPK is very different from a post war ULM PPK. The most telling features are the rear sights and the cut out on the muzzle end of the slide.

Stembridge helped Bapty import Bapty's own guns onto the set. They DID NOT supply them (PPK's) or keep them afterwards. Bapty did and still owns them and they are in a special archive

Sir Miles · October 2013

Asp9mm wrote:

Bapty did and still owns them and they are in a special archive

THAT special archive ?

Great knowledge again -{

Higgins · October 2013

great! Another crappy timepiece instead of an overpriced gun 8-) in my collection!

AJB should pay me an award for rescuing you out of the bush and bring you back to here

Sir Miles · October 2013

Bondtoys wrote:

great! Another crappy timepiece instead of an overpriced gun 8-) in my collection!

AJB should pay me an award for rescuing you out of the bush and bring you back to here

You have too many crappy watches anyway

And no man likes being rescued from bush

)

Bond Collectors' Weekends · October 2013

Bond's PPK there would be black... or gold!

Asp9mm · October 2013

Bondtoys wrote:

AJB should pay me an award for rescuing you out of the bush and bring you back to here

Don't be silly. All of AJB knows that your award for bringing me back from Tanz IS having me back on here.

The Domino Effect · October 2013

So, ASP9mm, if Stembridge are telling porkies by stating that things are screen-used when they're not and loaning them to exhibitions and even selling them for considerable sums, how are they getting away with it? Are EON not interested in challenging them because they're not genuine? Has no one else attempted to publically correct them? It's one thing to falsely put something on display, but quite another to sell it as something it's not.

Asp9mm · October 2013

Stembridge went out of business, so the sellers and auction houses are purely trading on the COA Stembridge issued. Profiles sold these things too, so the history of going through 'reputable' auction houses is in these guns history. sadly it's a false history. I know for sure a certain auction house was contacted before by a Bond firearms expert explaining exactly what they had there, but they chose to ignore all evidence presented or do the small amount of research that would have shown the truth.

The auctions are in the US, and are always quite low profile for such a supposedly important piece of Bond history, so fly under the EON radar. Well they have so far. There have been many dodgy pieces of film memorabilia and costumes sold through high profile specialist auction houses in the past which have been publicly ridiculed. But it doesn't seem to deter them.

Guns supplied to the bond films are converted to fire blanks. It requires quite a large modification and machining job to do it. Once converted, they can't be converted back to fire live rounds. The fact that these Stembridge PPK's can, is a huge tell too.

minigeff · October 2013

Personally I don't think EoN would give a flying one. It's not their name on the COA's and selling anything while saying it has a bond connection isn't a breach of EoN's copyright..... is it?*

*said with deflective interogative.

To be honest and a bit blunt, I have no idea why people get sucked in to this COA stuff. A COA is just a bit of paper with either a lie or the truth on it. There is no way, unless you contact the source (ie where the item came from) to verify, of knowing for sure the item was indeed used on screen. And usually the source, real or not, is often hard to trace as said items can sometimes to obatined... ahem.... when people aren't looking. Anyone can print off a COA and for me, they're worth as much as one of our lasses' used nappies.

I have screen used items in my collection, not many, but a few. I know they're the real mccoy because I personally know not where, but who they came from, or like my DAD ice glass, I made them myself, for the the film. (thought I'd shoehorn that in there again).

Even stuff on ebay, believe it or not, can be fakes. There's one guy who came on here to defend himself when someone 'called him out' over the authenticity of his items. The situation calmed down and I dipped my toe and bought from this guy, guess what, I got ripped off too, and guess what's worse, the majority of people think this guy is genuine and were actually backing him up. Giant facepalm moment.

When it comes to Bond guns, I trust donk, pete and asp only. Why? If you know these guys too, you know the reasons, if you don't I guess that's tough luck. I'm extremely lucky to know these guys, and consider them all as mates. Other people, even with the best intentions, can themselves be mislead and inadvertently mislead others with the false info they've been fed.

As for the auction houses shunning genuine tip offs, its no great surprise they don't care, they'll not get a sale if they pull the item, and when money is involved more often than not morals go out the window.

It's a bit like the DB5 from GF. 2 used for filming and how many are 'the car' now? Even when the bloody thing went missing (insurance) cough cough people still claim to have sat in 'the car' since.

If you visit some pokey little auction house or museum and connery's stunt wig just happens to be on display, try not to be so naive and assume that its the genuine article. Besides, the stunt wig, or bert as he's affectionately known, retired to Battersea dogs, cats and rugs home in the mid 80's where he peacefully let slip his mortal coil in 1995 shortly after seeing GE's premiere at Didbury's 'cinema behind the bins' open air theatre - that's true ya know, I've got a COA to prove it.

When it boils down to it, it's simply a case of buyer beware. It doesn't matter what anyone tries to do or say, there will always be the less honest of people around trying to rip us off, and if it sounds to good to be true, guess what?

Also note the lack of responce so far from the OP...... telling isn't it?

MG -{

Bond Collectors' Weekends · October 2013

Good points all. If someone wants to spend that much at auction, you'd think they look at a DVD of the film and confirm the differences before bidding, too!

ke02eww · October 2013

minigeff wrote:

Personally I don't think EoN would give a flying one. It's not their name on the COA's and selling anything while saying it has a bond connection isn't a breach of EoN's copyright..... is it?* *said with deflective interogative.

To be honest and a bit blunt, I have no idea why people get sucked in to this COA stuff. A COA is just a bit of paper with either a lie or the truth on it. There is no way, unless you contact the source (ie where the item came from) to verify, of knowing for sure the item was indeed used on screen. And usually the source, real or not, is often hard to trace as said items can sometimes to obatined... ahem.... when people aren't looking. Anyone can print off a COA and for me, they're worth as much as one of our lasses' used nappies.

I have screen used items in my collection, not many, but a few. I know they're the real mccoy because I personally know not where, but who they came from, or like my DAD ice glass, I made them myself, for the the film. (thought I'd shoehorn that in there again).

Even stuff on ebay, believe it or not, can be fakes. There's one guy who came on here to defend himself when someone 'called him out' over the authenticity of his items. The situation calmed down and I dipped my toe and bought from this guy, guess what, I got ripped off too, and guess what's worse, the majority of people think this guy is genuine and were actually backing him up. Giant facepalm moment.

When it comes to Bond guns, I trust donk, pete and asp only. Why? If you know these guys too, you know the reasons, if you don't I guess that's tough luck. I'm extremely lucky to know these guys, and consider them all as mates. Other people, even with the best intentions, can themselves be mislead and inadvertently mislead others with the false info they've been fed.

As for the auction houses shunning genuine tip offs, its no great surprise they don't care, they'll not get a sale if they pull the item, and when money is involved more often than not morals go out the window.

It's a bit like the DB5 from GF. 2 used for filming and how many are 'the car' now? Even when the bloody thing went missing (insurance) cough cough people still claim to have sat in 'the car' since.

If you visit some pokey little auction house or museum and connery's stunt wig just happens to be on display, try not to be so naive and assume that its the genuine article. Besides, the stunt wig, or bert as he's affectionately known, retired to Battersea dogs, cats and rugs home in the mid 80's where he peacefully let slip his mortal coil in 1995 shortly after seeing GE's premiere at Didbury's 'cinema behind the bins' open air theatre - that's true ya know, I've got a COA to prove it.

When it boils down to it, it's simply a case of buyer beware. It doesn't matter what anyone tries to do or say, there will always be the less honest of people around trying to rip us off, and if it sounds to good to be true, guess what?

Also note the lack of responce so far from the OP...... telling isn't it?

MG -{

How long did it take you to compose this masterpiece Jeff?

It could have been just one line;

Trust donk, Pete and asp only....

However ill be going along to see who buys this pos...

Oh and Jeff, I think I recall your facepalm culprit and I was one of the doubters I believe...

If its who I think it is I wouldn't trust further than I can throw up...

The Domino Effect · October 2013

I couldn't agree more about COAs not being worth the paper they're printed on 99% of the time. In the last decade or so, all sorts of 'authenticators' have popped up, and in many cases completely unknown in their line of collecting. However, because they issue a COA on pretty paper - or, the piece de resistance - with a fancy hologram on it, they must know what they're talking about. I'm no expert when it comes to guns, props etc which is why I turn to the people who are and learn as I go and I am forever impressed by some of the people on here. Except for Pete.

ke02eww · October 2013

The Domino Effect wrote:

........ I'm no expert when it comes to guns, props etc which is why I turn to the people who are and learn as I go and I am forever impressed by some of the people on here.

Except for Pete.

I hope you're joking TDE...

danjaq_0ff · October 2013

;% Thank you to everyone that holds me in such high regard, but if I want to know anything I also run to the for mentioned guys to

He is pulling my leg Paul

Dom, your card is marked

Higgins · October 2013

Be careful about Asp9mm.
He's only trustworthy when he had a nose or two from his snakepoison

PPK 7.65mm · October 2013

@Always shaken The gun used by Bond at the climax of Live and Let Die is a Smith & Wesson Model 29 in .44 Magnum( Made famous in the Dirty Harry movies ) with a nickel plated finish. This same prop gun or another nickel finished Model 29 is also seen in The Man With The Golden Gun inside Scaramanga's gun cabinet when Scaramanga attempts to arm himself only to find the cabinet locked.

Ad I mentioned before a big thank you to everyone here with the proper background information on the Licence to Kill PPK. If it was not for your help, I might have thought that was the actual screen used PPK up for auction and not an incorrect pre-war model.

The Domino Effect · October 2013

On the subject of the value of COAs, here's a great example:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Signed-IAN-FLEMING-JAMES-BOND-1st-ed-Books-Dustcovers-UACC-007-Martini-SET-/190942531509?pt=Antiquarian_Collectible&hash=item2c750fcfb5

This signature seems to come with at least two COAs and while it may well be a genuine signature of an Ian Fleming, it's certainly not the Ian Lancaster Fleming that we know and love so well. Not for a moment would I like to impugn the expertise of those who verified the autograph, but I've always wondered why people take literary or historical autographs to be authenticated by sports or entertainment experts. I really wouldn't want a Picasso painting analysed by someone specialising in postage stamps, yet you see that sort of thing all the time with autographs and manuscripts.

Licence to Kill Walther PPK

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