What if Dalton had taken over from FYEO onwards?
Brosnan_fan
Sydney, AustraliaPosts: 521MI6 Agent
This thread was inspired by Firemass' hypothetical one about "What if" Moore had only made four films (LALD - MR).
So, imagine Moore had quit after MR, and Dalton took over the role and worked on all the John Glen films (FYEO, OP and AVTAK would have been written, tailored and directed to the TD style of Bond). Then, the 6-year lawsuit debacle occurs as normal, and Dalton decides to exit.
IMO I think I would have enjoyed FYEO and OP, regardless of who played Bond.
Would you have been more satisfied with this hypothetical tenure of Dalton's? What would you have thought of "his Bond" had this occurred?
So, imagine Moore had quit after MR, and Dalton took over the role and worked on all the John Glen films (FYEO, OP and AVTAK would have been written, tailored and directed to the TD style of Bond). Then, the 6-year lawsuit debacle occurs as normal, and Dalton decides to exit.
IMO I think I would have enjoyed FYEO and OP, regardless of who played Bond.
Would you have been more satisfied with this hypothetical tenure of Dalton's? What would you have thought of "his Bond" had this occurred?
"Well, he certainly left with his tails between his legs."
Comments
*Dalton would have been a much better fit for FYEO due to the amount of athletic feats performed in that film. Plus, the dramatic shift from Moonraker and the PTS designed to introduce a new Bond for a new decade makes this a missed opportunity for Dalton. Was he even being considered?
*I can't imagine any other actor being able to pull of Octopussy. Rog was the perfect man for the job.
*AVTAK is darker and more violent that most fans give credit. Bond's character is more human and down to earth. It feels similar in tone to The Living Daylights. Not sure if Dalton could have pulled off all the different aliases so smoothly like Roger.
1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
If they continued to skip FYEO and make that after AVTAK, I would say it would give Dalton a nice trifecta with FYEO, TLD, and LTK.
At the time though, audiences wanted more Moore. The films continued to rake in the box office and reviews at the time were favorable. It's not like they were shoving him down people's throats time and time again, the fans wanted to see him continue. It wasn't til Octopussy that interest started to dwindle and it would continue with AVTAK when time had finally caught up to Roger.
I'm glad it worked out as it did since I am a huge Roger Moore fan. At the same time, I would have liked another Dalton film in 91.
1. He would have been too young for the role and the gap prior to TLD let him age out a bit of the difference to Moore.
2. Like others said: It was a bold move after the spectacular TSWLM and MR to continue with a sharp contrasted down-to-earth flemingesque movie and another director.
If at the same time another signature element (the main actor) would have been changed, the entire experiment may have ended in a desaster. So Moore made it easier for the audience to get back on the floor and guaranteed a large bo number by his sheer existence.
I would guess that FYEO with Dalton would have been a medicore movie and financial success if not worse.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
That's a bold thesis!
If you are asking some of your non-Bond friends if they knew Tim Dalton, or even show his pic - I am sure that not many even remember that he once played Bond.
After Brosnan took over - Dalton was rapidly forgotten - I am not speaking about a small group of die-hard Dalton supporters here on the board. That's not the real world
So Dalton has very little to nothing to do with Craig's acceptance or performance.
IMO of course.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
This is where you are completely wrong, IMHO...Dalton did a superb job - just at the wrong time...BUT he planted the seed of returning to a more 'harder edged' Bond in the future...I think Dalton suffered because the switch from Moore's films was too great...that's where Brosnan came in...he was the ideal link from the more 'outlandish' Moore films to the more 'real-world' Craig films...
I know how you feel about Dalton and I think that just clouds your judgement here -{
I think that we can agree that Daltons movies so-so performed at the boxoffice (I say they sucked) - so why would Babs and Mick go with the bad seed and make the same mistake again with CR?
Truth is that they wanted to go back to Fleming - they wanted to do what they liked - not back to Dalton.
I say that Dalton has nothing to do with CR's concept and Dannyboys success.
And it stays what I have said: Show 100 of your non-Bond friends a pic of Dalton and see how well-regarded he is. He simply does not exist in the heads of the "casual audiences".
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I'm unaware if you've seen interviews with Dalton - especially the press conference they had in Vienna...?...they all hark to going back to basics...to Fleming...if you haven't seen it I recommend you try and find it...it shows the direction the producers wanted to take...with Dalton...back to Fleming...
Showing a picture of Dalton to friends proves nothing...my friends know me...they know I like Bond...they know I like Dalton...so they know who he is...that's a silly way of trying to show what you mean...I understand your point but you could say that of dozens of actors that have been in high-profile films....
It may surprise you - but I am forcing myself to read all thru your silly posts
IMO, there is no such thing as right Bond at the wrong time. There are good Bonds and bad Bonds and Moore was visually too old in AVTAK and Dalton would have been to young back then.
So let's take your argument re. the press conference seriously. You say that "they"all hark to going back to basics.
Now who's "they"?
They have obviously not seen the movie as the Vienna press conference was on the first shooting day (I lived in Vienna back then and have seen them all!). So "they" basically harked on a sales pitch.
"The best Bond ever", "Bond-license to kill", "More action - more girls - more Fleming".
And the classic: "This Bondgirl is equal to Bond - for the first time!"
All these are sales blah-blah and came from Cubby, so where is the blah blah for TLD any different?
And the press always fell into the trap and praised whatever they heard and did what Cubby wanted them to do: Give free PR!
Regarding the "going back to basics...to Fleming" rave: I am sure the same has been said at the first press conference re. FYEO - so following your own logic - it was Moore and FYEO "who planted the seed of returning to a more 'harder edged' Bond in the future" or "paved the way for Craig's interpretation two decades later".
That statement would be equally silly than claiming that Dalton has anything positively to do with Craig's Bonds.
You Timboys don't leave a chance out for knitting a context where none exists -{
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Dalton would have been fine, age wise, for AVTAK...but I'm happy he missed that film as its a bit of a mess...Cubby wanted Dalton for OHMSS remember, so you're 'age' comment is just a red herring...
Yes, there was a definite shift in tone with FYEO, but there had to be really...they'd gone as far as they could with MR....but I get your point...
As I've said...I think your dislike for Dalton clouds your thinking.... -{
For all producers - the upcoming movie is the best to come.
And Broccoli wanting Dalton for OHMSS? He was 25 back then - it would have been a desaster -if that story is true..
As far as I recall, Dalton was not in the last casting rounds.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Of course producers feel that way...I think you are confusing yourself here...
Dalton wasn't in any casting rounds at all...Broccoli offered him the role....Dalton turned him down...he said he was too young....but Broccoli wanted him, that is clear.
Well, FYEO with the darker more flemingesque approach was far earlier than TLD
To go that route was the decision of the producers and not the main actor's
Dalton's movies did not so great that one could assume that this had something to do with the similar approach when CR was outlined.
So all attempts to draw a line between Dalton's Bond performance and Craig's success is don't make any sense.
Feel free to knit your own truth.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
to decide how they want to play the role and if that matches with the direction the
Producers are going. So it's simply a coincidence that both actor and producers agreed
with Dalton and Craig, in both cases wanting to cut down on the humor and reintroduce
touches of Fleming.
Remember that after FYEO Moore did other Bond films with varying degrees of sillyness....so your point could equally be applied to Dr No.... 8-)
As stated...you let your personal thoughts on Dalton cloud your judgement...
I can't knit...so when you've knitted your truth...have a go at mine, please
Or maybe those actors were cast because of the type of actor they are ? Ie. perfect for the tone of the film ?
so was Dalton.
Agreed ,if they decide on a more serious direction they go looking for a more serious actor. Hence P Brosnan
Films feeling a " hand " of the R Moore era on their shoulder.
If Dalton did FYEO, it would have flopped like OHMSS and Roger would have been brought back anyway for Octopussy. (Which would be hailed as a return to form...and rightfully so)
1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
You mean 'flopped' as in being regularly voted No.1 Bond film by Bond fans ?
And why would Roger have been brought back ? That's just nonesense....you need to back your 'thoughts' up with sound reasons as to why....
That is an interesting what if scenario. If Dalton replaced Moore in FYEO and then the movie went on to flop. I would have to think they'd go back to Moore for Octopussy with the whole NSNA vs. Octopussy (if that still occurred in the alternate timeline). After all, they approached Dalton for Octopussy and even screen tested with James Brolin, before deciding to lure Moore back after NSNA was announced.
I think calling OHMSS a flop is a bit of an exaggeration. It was the lowest grossing Bond film since Dr. No (inflation adjusted); however, critics received it well and Lazenby being a one-off Bond was not because of the box office showing. Certainly these days, OHMSS is held in much higher regard as the story has aged incredibly well.
made eight dollars back.
And part of the issue of it not making as much money as the rest was down to its running time...I read an article many years ago where it quoted cinema managers as saying as the running time was so long it cost them at least one showing a day, therefore affecting profits...they wanted the film edited down to under two hours...
Here is a list of the bixoffice of the Bonds, there are a few surprises.