Bonds Attitude in TMWTGG

AlphaOmegaSinAlphaOmegaSin EnglandPosts: 10,926MI6 Agent
Do you still think it was unusual that Bond came across as a complete Thug in Parts of TMWTGG? Out of Place for Moore's Bond?
1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger

Comments

  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    I have read in the past, that the writers were still writing for a "Connery" Bond at that time, It wasn't
    untill TSWLM that they changed the scripts to suit Sir Roger's lighter more comic style.
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • FiremassFiremass AlaskaPosts: 1,910MI6 Agent
    I have read in the past, that the writers were still writing for a "Connery" Bond at that time, It wasn't
    untill TSWLM that they changed the scripts to suit Sir Roger's lighter more comic style.

    There's nothing light or comic about Moore's Bond in TSWLM. (aside from the scene where Jaws is attacking the van)

    Moore was a cold bastard in TMWTGG. People who think RM " brougt" a lighter Bond obviously haven't seen this film. Slapping maud around and almost breaking her arm. Shooting at Lazar's groin while hia family is eating dinner upstairs. Pushing the thai boy into the river. Kicking his karate opponent in the face during the bow.

    As usual RM rules, but gets blamed for comic elements like jw pepper and the slide whistle.
    My current 10 favorite:

    1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
  • JarvioJarvio EnglandPosts: 4,241MI6 Agent
    I made a similar thread a while back: http://www.ajb007.co.uk/topic/39592/moore-is-pissed-off-in-tmwtgg/

    In short, yes I agree.
    1 - LALD, 2 - AVTAK, 3 - LTK, 4 - OP, 5 - NTTD, 6 - FYEO, 7 - SF, 8 - DN, 9 - DAF, 10 - TSWLM, 11 - OHMSS, 12 - TMWTGG, 13 - GE, 14 - MR, 15 - TLD, 16 - YOLT, 17 - GF, 18 - DAD, 19 - TWINE, 20 - SP, 21 - TND, 22 - FRWL, 23 - TB, 24 - CR, 25 - QOS

    1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
  • FiremassFiremass AlaskaPosts: 1,910MI6 Agent
    roger should be regarded as the " cold, ruthless Bond"
    My current 10 favorite:

    1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
  • AlphaOmegaSinAlphaOmegaSin EnglandPosts: 10,926MI6 Agent
    Bond thought that he had the Worlds deadliest Assassin after him, so he was probably just being over cautious.
    1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
  • BlackleiterBlackleiter Washington, DCPosts: 5,615MI6 Agent
    Firemass wrote:
    roger should be regarded as the " cold, ruthless Bond"

    Okay, I agree that Moore showed a bit of a hard edge now and then, but let's not get carried away. I'm willing to bet that the average viewer remembers Old Rog for his raised eyebrows and comical quips more than any "cold, ruthless" persona.
    "Felix Leiter, a brother from Langley."
  • screenamescreename Posts: 388MI6 Agent
    All of his "cold and ruthlessness" was pretty much wiped out by TSWLM. Occasionally you'd get small bits, but to say he was cold and ruthless is to say that DC was lighthearted and comic in SF.
  • AlphaOmegaSinAlphaOmegaSin EnglandPosts: 10,926MI6 Agent
    They were still writing the Scripts with Connery in Mind, I remember reading somewhere that they wanted him for LALD.
    1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
  • Gassy ManGassy Man USAPosts: 2,972MI6 Agent
    Firemass wrote:
    roger should be regarded as the " cold, ruthless Bond"

    Okay, I agree that Moore showed a bit of a hard edge now and then, but let's not get carried away. I'm willing to bet that the average viewer remembers Old Rog for his raised eyebrows and comical quips more than any "cold, ruthless" persona.
    Yeah, I agree. Moore's body language and demeanor were nowhere near "cold" or "ruthless" in most of his Bonds. He maintained a light disposition, and some of the moments people point out here were meant for comic purposes, such as the kick to the face and pushing the boy out of the boat (as capped by calling Bond a "bloody tourist"). Even slapping a woman around doesn't seem particularly hard-edged compared to when Connery and Lazenby did it because so much else in Moore's films was light and campy.
  • MooseWithFleasMooseWithFleas Philadelphia, PAPosts: 754MI6 Agent
    Moore has moments where he is darker, cold, and ruthless. On a whole though he is a much more gentlemanly, quippy, and light.

    That's great though. I would have gotten bored of the series if every actor's portrayal was the same. While I don't think Moore is the most talented Bond, he might be my favorite because I enjoy his style of Bond. What keeps me coming for more is that each actor has his own take and style. If the next Bond is dark, brooding, and tortured like Craig I will be severely disappointed. Not because I don't like Craig's style, Skyfall and Casino Royale are my 2 favorite Bond films. I will be disappointed because I will be ready for a change and wouldn't want another portrayal to be copying a previous Bond.
  • NeverSayDieNeverSayDie Posts: 495MI6 Agent
    I think he's harder and colder in TWMWTGG than FYEO.
    Only the comedy penny whistle on the car flip makes me cringe in TMWTGG.
  • DEFIANT 74205DEFIANT 74205 Perth, AustraliaPosts: 1,881MI6 Agent
    Gassy Man wrote:
    Firemass wrote:
    roger should be regarded as the " cold, ruthless Bond"

    Okay, I agree that Moore showed a bit of a hard edge now and then, but let's not get carried away. I'm willing to bet that the average viewer remembers Old Rog for his raised eyebrows and comical quips more than any "cold, ruthless" persona.
    Yeah, I agree. Moore's body language and demeanor were nowhere near "cold" or "ruthless" in most of his Bonds. He maintained a light disposition, and some of the moments people point out here were meant for comic purposes, such as the kick to the face and pushing the boy out of the boat (as capped by calling Bond a "bloody tourist"). Even slapping a woman around doesn't seem particularly hard-edged compared to when Connery and Lazenby did it because so much else in Moore's films was light and campy.

    -{ +1
    If the next Bond is dark, brooding, and tortured like Craig I will be severely disappointed. Not because I don't like Craig's style, Skyfall and Casino Royale are my 2 favorite Bond films. I will be disappointed because I will be ready for a change and wouldn't want another portrayal to be copying a previous Bond.

    I believe there's only one way to play Bond and that's "by the book" as Fleming has written him. Craig's Bond isn't entirely the same as Fleming's Bond (for one thing, Fleming's Bond was a lot more vulnerable) but the character is, on the whole, "dark, brooding and tortured", a man who does a very distasteful job, a man who hates his job and drinks his humanity away so he can sleep at night.

    I think the aim should not be to copy the previous Bond, but do their best to put Fleming's Bond on the big screen. I agree that each actor has a different interpretation, but some are so far removed from the books that I wonder if it truly is the same character that Fleming wrote.
    "Watch the birdie, you bastard!"
  • MooseWithFleasMooseWithFleas Philadelphia, PAPosts: 754MI6 Agent

    I believe there's only one way to play Bond and that's "by the book" as Fleming has written him. Craig's Bond isn't entirely the same as Fleming's Bond (for one thing, Fleming's Bond was a lot more vulnerable) but the character is, on the whole, "dark, brooding and tortured", a man who does a very distasteful job, a man who hates his job and drinks his humanity away so he can sleep at night.

    I think the aim should not be to copy the previous Bond, but do their best to put Fleming's Bond on the big screen. I agree that each actor has a different interpretation, but some are so far removed from the books that I wonder if it truly is the same character that Fleming wrote.

    Interesting. I am a fan of the books as I am reading through them now, but enjoy that each actor has taken bits and pieces from the books/character. I enjoy that some actors deviate far from the novels like Brozzer, Moore, and 2nd Half of Connery tenure.

    When you watch the films that are not true to Fleming style, do you view it as what could have been or do you still enjoy the films, but not to the level of one's that are more dedicated to the source material?

    Just watched TLD last night and it is amazing as always. I do love Daulton's take on Bond and how true it is to the Fleming character, but I enjoy all other interpretations as well.
  • Gassy ManGassy Man USAPosts: 2,972MI6 Agent
    Gassy Man wrote:

    Okay, I agree that Moore showed a bit of a hard edge now and then, but let's not get carried away. I'm willing to bet that the average viewer remembers Old Rog for his raised eyebrows and comical quips more than any "cold, ruthless" persona.
    Yeah, I agree. Moore's body language and demeanor were nowhere near "cold" or "ruthless" in most of his Bonds. He maintained a light disposition, and some of the moments people point out here were meant for comic purposes, such as the kick to the face and pushing the boy out of the boat (as capped by calling Bond a "bloody tourist"). Even slapping a woman around doesn't seem particularly hard-edged compared to when Connery and Lazenby did it because so much else in Moore's films was light and campy.

    -{ +1
    If the next Bond is dark, brooding, and tortured like Craig I will be severely disappointed. Not because I don't like Craig's style, Skyfall and Casino Royale are my 2 favorite Bond films. I will be disappointed because I will be ready for a change and wouldn't want another portrayal to be copying a previous Bond.

    I believe there's only one way to play Bond and that's "by the book" as Fleming has written him. Craig's Bond isn't entirely the same as Fleming's Bond (for one thing, Fleming's Bond was a lot more vulnerable) but the character is, on the whole, "dark, brooding and tortured", a man who does a very distasteful job, a man who hates his job and drinks his humanity away so he can sleep at night.

    I think the aim should not be to copy the previous Bond, but do their best to put Fleming's Bond on the big screen. I agree that each actor has a different interpretation, but some are so far removed from the books that I wonder if it truly is the same character that Fleming wrote.
    Maybe. I never saw Bond quite as dark and brooding -- he was more like the classic WWII guy in that he had a dirty job to do and was going to try to do it as best he could while holding on to his humanity. He was ruthless by training more than anything else -- the angst he felt was when it conflicted with his better nature.

    In this, the Fleming Bond seemed to have more in common with Devlin in Notorious or The Guns of Navarone's Mallory.
  • DEFIANT 74205DEFIANT 74205 Perth, AustraliaPosts: 1,881MI6 Agent
    When you watch the films that are not true to Fleming style, do you view it as what could have been or do you still enjoy the films, but not to the level of one's that are more dedicated to the source material?

    Oh I do enjoy them, but I have a strong preference for films that are either more true to the source material; or where the main characters are played very much in accordance with the way they were written in the novels. But going back to the film in question in this thread, The Man With the Golden Gun, it was the very first Bond film I saw and I do very much have a soft spot for it, but at the same time, my view is that the novel is so much better, as the film could also have been, especially the final duel between Bond and Scaramanga in the mangroves after both jumping from a crashed train, both being wounded and dirty and sick.

    I dare say if the films in the Moore era were more true to the source material, I would definitely have held them in a higher regard. In particular, The Man With the Golden Gun, Moonraker and The Spy Who Loved Me had very little in common with the novels of the same name (in fairness, neither did You Only Live Twice and Diamonds are Forever). I think the films in the Moore era could have been better had the producers chosen to stay with the source material (the novel Moonraker was, in my opinion, Fleming's best work), but overall, I was somewhat disappointed with the Bond films of the 1970s.
    Gassy Man wrote:
    Maybe. I never saw Bond quite as dark and brooding -- he was more like the classic WWII guy in that he had a dirty job to do and was going to try to do it as best he could while holding on to his humanity. He was ruthless by training more than anything else -- the angst he felt was when it conflicted with his better nature.

    Perhaps "brooding" is not quite the right word, but he most certainly did not seem happy in his job, evidenced by his numerous thoughts of resigning from the service.
    "Watch the birdie, you bastard!"
  • MooseWithFleasMooseWithFleas Philadelphia, PAPosts: 754MI6 Agent

    Oh I do enjoy them, but I have a strong preference for films that are either more true to the source material; or where the main characters are played very much in accordance with the way they were written in the novels. But going back to the film in question in this thread, The Man With the Golden Gun, it was the very first Bond film I saw and I do very much have a soft spot for it, but at the same time, my view is that the novel is so much better, as the film could also have been, especially the final duel between Bond and Scaramanga in the mangroves after both jumping from a crashed train, both being wounded and dirty and sick.

    I dare say if the films in the Moore era were more true to the source material, I would definitely have held them in a higher regard. In particular, The Man With the Golden Gun, Moonraker and The Spy Who Loved Me had very little in common with the novels of the same name (in fairness, neither did You Only Live Twice and Diamonds are Forever). I think the films in the Moore era could have been better had the producers chosen to stay with the source material (the novel Moonraker was, in my opinion, Fleming's best work), but overall, I was somewhat disappointed with the Bond films of the 1970s.

    Fair enough -{ . You are definitely not alone in those thoughts. Reflecting back, I'm sure many Flemingist and Modern Bond fans would prefer that and regard the series in an even higher light if that happened. However, during the 70's, I think the demand for Fleming-loyal interpretations of Bond was much less desired. That seems evident with TMWTGG which was less successful in the box office and had a more reserve tone, and was less over-the-top than all other Moore films (with the exception of FYEO).

    It wasn't until Octopussy where fans started to lose interest in the over-the-top, tongue-in-cheek style. Timothy Dalton's films were too much of a stark contrast to be accepted at the time, but are held in high regard by most fans (myself included) these days. Brozzer was the perfect segway between a silly and serious Bond.

    I've read a half dozen of the Fleming novels so far and Moonraker is my favorite thus far. Tremendous book. That being said, Moonraker the film is one of the films I enjoy the most. By no means do I think it is one of the "best" films, but the movie is so darned over-the-top and fun for me that it works. In that era after TSWLM's great success, I think a down to earth Moonraker would have failed. Just my two cents though.

    Circling back around to TMWTGG, I like when different Bond actors try new things with their interpretations of Bond, it just doesn't always work out. In my eyes, Connery's campiness in DAF just doesn't work for me and it almost seems awkward in many places. With Moore, there are some serious elements that work, but when he slaps around Maud Adams it just doesn't work for me.
  • AlphaOmegaSinAlphaOmegaSin EnglandPosts: 10,926MI6 Agent
    Why do my Threads seem to spark such healthy Debate? :))
    1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    Agent Provocateur ? :))
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 37,868Chief of Staff
    Perhaps "brooding" is not quite the right word.

    Melancholy?
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    lugubrious ?
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
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