Fleming on todays Society
AlphaOmegaSin
EnglandPosts: 10,926MI6 Agent
Thinking about this Today, things have obviously changed a lot since the 1950's. What do you think Fleming's views on Today's Society would be? I personally think that he would had some Distaste to how things operate now.
1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
Comments
" I don't listen to hip hop!"
" I don't listen to hip hop!"
Recognise the place.
Disagree- we're being run by an Eton-educated elite determined to make the rich richer and the poor poorer; bankers and big businesses are permitted to do what they please howver morally repugnant; our influence and power have dwindled; royal "events" keep the public distracted; youth unemployment continues to grow... all very 1950s.
He would not have liked the way the English language is changing, the number of non-European citizens in European countries, non- white people in positions of power, women's lib (other than the sexual part), the smoking laws, political correctness, mass tourism and much of the music.
Disagree- we're being run by an Eton-educated elite determined to make the rich richer and the poor poorer; bankers and big businesses are permitted to do what they please howver morally repugnant; our influence and power have dwindled; royal "events" keep the public distracted; youth unemployment continues to grow... all very 1950s
This sounds like more " pinko commie talk ", Fleming wouldn't of liked that. Although
You are correct
Look at the last chapter of DN when Bond reflects on society- I'd say that is Fleming's view. And more briefly, contrast that with his thoughts on the young taxi driver who takes him to Shrublands in TB. (Omitted from the film, of course, so Bond can drive the DB5, and also from NSNA so we can have him ruminate on his Bentley and ompare it to himself)
At least the Labour party has truly changed to reflect the working man in the street. Oh, wait a minute...
Just putting that in for the sake of political balance on a website dedicated to viewing, discussing and collecting things to do with an imaginary fantasy figure.
Fleming would be appauled at ajb, too. Bloody soft waste of time.
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as they are the "Protest" vote party against the others.
weekend. In the last election the Cons were basically wiped out in Scotland. Yet they still
end up with a Con Governmemt.
Then again all governments are a bit of a con.
Can't argue with any of that!
"Bloody soft waste of time" especially!!
" I've had a particularly fascinating life. Would you like to hear about it? "
All eyes roll.
I wonder how he'd react to the opening ceremonies of the London Olympics? (No, I'm not talking about Bond meeting the Queen and skydiving into the stadium) I'm particularly thinking about the "Story of London" told through the courtship of a couple of color and the ethinic and social diversity that marks the city's character today.
thing,but im sure he would have loved our technology,the ability to communicate with people all around the world (as im doing right now)
but then as this life style is now open to everybody I think he might be secretly yearning for the return of his day, and his golden eye seclusion ,
the most tolerant society of any western country. Over the years so many
Different cultures have been absorbed, mixed and added to. Sure there are
A few ( racist etc ) groups here, but they are very small and have no real
support. For instance I think Britain is way ahead of America in that respect.
So please don't take the wrong meaning from my expression that Fleming
Wouldn't recognise the place, it was a light hearted comment, on how the
Standards and ways of "old " Britain are disappearing. From keeping a stiff
upper lip ( we now have people showing all their dirty laundry ) on TV shows
etc.
Agree totally, TP. Hell we Brits are so tolerant and even handed we let in immigrant racists who hate those Brits who don't hate them at all just to make up for the limited number of Brits who do, actually, have racist beliefs.
Can get a much more open, broadminded society than that.
True, I'm in full agreement. I for one think that Fleming would be scratching his head though, were he to magically pop up during the London Olympics opening show. It certainly was not his London, and IMO, the emphasis of that opening ceremony was just how diversity was not merely an aspect of modern London society, but it was front and center; I also agree that America is a bit behind in that respect despite the fact of having a president who is not white.
My son just finished reading LALD and it's interesting to glean fresh views from new readers and he thought it was funny how Fleming was condescending towards blacks in his day, like how in general he viewed them as quiet and subdued as a people conditioned to "their station" by the powers that be. My son's observations reminded me of Anchorman 2 (for those who've seen it) and how Will Farrel's character coped with the paradigm shift of his own understanding of the new society, in trying to be modern himself.
In his day, Fleming's experiences were advanced and the reason why millions thought his books were exciting was because in contrast to the austere, everyday tempered life of Britons, he offered bold sexuality and a jet setting glimpse of the high life, of course all of that under the veneer of "respectable" snobbery. In today's been there, done that society, in some respects of hedonistic excesses he'd probably feel outdone, except maybe in the area of extreme opulent living. However, more people today enjoy some tokens of wealth that were limited to the privileged few of his time; for example, Drax driving through today's England in his Mercedes during rush hour, would actually encounter hundreds of other motorists behind the wheels of a Mercedes.
Sad, but very true.
He would have been appalled at the amount of profanity in everyday conversation and how the media in general had "dumbed" everything down and put the importance of entertainment over news, as well as the ignorance of today's generation in regards to history and geography.
He would have been fascinated with today's technology and at the same time regretted the loss of privacy and manners. He would have been amazed by e-book readers yet mourned the great losses of the printed word and the death of Fleet Street. He would have had a love/hate relation with the internet (who doesn't?).
He would have been stunned by the amount of people jetting about and taking cruises - a luxury in his time. He would curse at how jet travel was so available to anyone and overcrowded by hideously dressed, rude tourists. He would have also been depressed at how this growth in tourism had spoiled so many famous cities and turned his winter getaway into a year round overrun stomping ground for hedonistic, drunken youth and families dragging their bored, sunburned children - faces buried in their mobile devices - all over the island followed by the locals trying to sell their trinkets and braid their hair.
I think he would have missed the time when one could smoke anywhere, but would have understood why tobacco had to be phased out to make future generations healthier. He knew alcohol and nicotine were deadly, but they were vices he loved and may have cut back on but never have given up.
He would have loved how his creation had survived for so long and how universally is admired and had become a cultural icon. He would have been saddened by some of EON's films, but I think at the same time would been delighted his first novel was finally made and that they had returned the series back towards the spirit of his work with a more serious look at his hero.
Nice summary - very plausible. -{
Maybe he'd see some of Brosnans films as well if he lived to the late 1990s.......maybe the 70s films would've been overall better had he written more books or maybe he'd lose inspiration to write more books.
What would he think of GL/RM & TD ?
I think he would've enjoyed Kristatos/Khan/Zorin/Sanchez.......I think he would've liked FYEO & TLD as well. He would prolly find LTK too intense for his taste although he'd love Davi's preformance.
The conversation goes on for a few pages and it's interesting how Bond from the very start sized up the kid, determined his life setting and accordingly, easily held for him an attitude of acceptance. Assuming that Fleming was writing from his own viewpoint, note how he uses his own amateur anthropological analysis and then proceeds with a sincere interest in someone else's insights from "the other half." I noticed throughout the books that this was the usual way Fleming/Bond processed his views on people, using educated guesses for the most part in trying to understand where someone is coming from.
It's important to note that Fleming/Bond could have easily chosen to dislike this person, which in my opinion is more generous than average person from his class. But there would be some exceptions when prejudiced stereotypes immediately takes the forefront of his thoughts, like in DAF in how Bond considers American gangsters not being American, but Italians who eat spaghetti and wear too much scent! In GF, he doesn't even reason at all why he thinks Koreans are subhumans, which I would assume is an attitude influenced by the Korean War, but I wonder what Fleming would think of Koreans today judging from the progressive socio-economic achievements made by South Korea? Even in perhaps the most racially controversial Fleming book, LALD, it's arguable that despite the typical racial sterotypes of the time being in the novel, his attitude towards blacks were generally, at its worse, condescending, but relatively benign compared to the DAF and GF examples. In LALD, Fleming's sizing up of blacks in general is very similar to his estimation of the young taxi driver in TB, which is an attempt at understanding the "other."
So...depending on how much more complex today's society might be for Fleming, I think he will attempt to understand life settings and would do so with great willingness, but with the tendency to have this influenced by personal prejudices.