Bond's film ethnicity/national identity

Gassy ManGassy Man USAPosts: 2,972MI6 Agent
Pardon me if this has been answered before, but I didn't see anything specific when I did a search.

What is Bond's film ethnicity/national identity? We know that Fleming eventually suggested Bond was half Scots and half Swiss, but until the Craig era, I don't recall any onscreen confirmation (and even then, the Craig films reimagine). The only references I've seen on film are that Bond is British or English.

Now, one's ethnic identity does not have to be the same as one's national identity, but I don't recall any onscreen confirmation that Bond was anything but English except that he has been played by actors of different ethnic/national backgrounds. But in similar fashion, Asian actors of different ethnic backgrounds routinely play characters who are different (a person of Japanese ancestry playing a North Korean, for instance, as is the case of Harold Sakata), so I don't know that that alone speaks to the character. Could any caucasian actor therefore play Bond so long as he "looks and sounds" the part, regardless of ethnicity/national identity?
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  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 37,861Chief of Staff
    James Bond is British.

    This includes English, Scottish, Welsh, Irish (geographically- don't get into the politics), plus many small islands (eg Isle Of Man).

    Ian Fleming specifically defined Bond as having a Scots father and a Swiss mother. The films have been vague on this point until Skyfall.

    The problem is that too many people do not realise that the words "English" and "British" are not synonyms. Since most people in the British Isles speak English, it is too often assumed that we are all English- just like James Bond isn't.

    The film series more often follows Fleming than contradicts him (eg, Bond claims to have gone to Cambridge in YOLT and TSWLM), usually in minor details. If anyone can suggest a better source than Ian Fleming for details about James Bond, please go ahead.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,062MI6 Agent
    Bond is a UK-only role (That Aussie fellah being the mistake that taught them the lesson). :v
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    Barbel wrote :
    James Bond is British.

    This includes English, Scottish, Welsh, Irish (geographically- don't get into the politics), plus many small islands (eg Isle Of Man).

    Ian Fleming specifically defined Bond as having a Scots father and a Swiss mother. The films have been vague on this point until Skyfall.

    The problem is that too many people do not realise that the words "English" and "British" are not synonyms. Since most people in the British Isles speak English, it is too often assumed that we are all English- just like James Bond isn't.

    The film series more often follows Fleming than contradicts him (eg, Bond claims to have gone to Cambridge in YOLT and TSWLM), usually in minor details. If anyone can suggest a better source than Ian Fleming for details about James Bond, please go ahead.
    +1 {[]
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Gassy ManGassy Man USAPosts: 2,972MI6 Agent
    Is Bond ever identified specifically as English, though, onscreen? I know he's frequently described as a British agent. I would say that in the U.S., the distinction between the two terms is lost on most people.

    Still, if Asians can be portrayed by any number of varying ethnicities or nationalities, couldn't any white person essentially play Bond so long as he looks and sounds the part?
  • Gassy ManGassy Man USAPosts: 2,972MI6 Agent
    Let me amend that and say the actor does not even have to be white, though that is what we have seen so far.
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 37,861Chief of Staff
    Bond claims to be English in AVTAK when playing a part. Melina assumes him to be English in FYEO, and he doesn't contradict her (understandably- both for onscreen reasons and off). There may be other examples.

    BUT an English accent is still not necessary for an actor to play Bond, whether he be Burt Reynolds or not. Brosnan and Lazenby don't sound English, and most famously neither does Connery.
  • Gassy ManGassy Man USAPosts: 2,972MI6 Agent
    Ah, very good. I should also say I should have typed "British" in my original post rather than "English."
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 37,861Chief of Staff
    Thank you.
  • Gassy ManGassy Man USAPosts: 2,972MI6 Agent
    {[]
  • Virgil37Virgil37 Posts: 1,212MI6 Agent
    Barbel wrote:
    BUT an English accent is still not necessary for an actor to play Bond, whether he be Burt Reynolds or not

    An american accent would be out of place for Bond.
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 37,861Chief of Staff
    Naturally. Bond is British.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,062MI6 Agent
    Barbel wrote:
    Naturally. Bond is British.
    A stiff-arse one? ?:)
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • welshboy78welshboy78 Posts: 10,320MI6 Agent
    One thing which bugged me was in Goldeneye

    "For England James"
    'For England Alec"

    I think EON did indeed forget for a while that Bond was NOT English but British
    Instagram - bondclothes007
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,062MI6 Agent
    welshboy78 wrote:
    One thing which bugged me was in Goldeneye

    "For England James"
    'For England Alec"

    I think EON did indeed forget for a while that Bond was NOT English but British
    I thought it was "No, For ME." ?:)
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 37,861Chief of Staff
    chrisisall wrote:
    welshboy78 wrote:
    One thing which bugged me was in Goldeneye

    "For England James"
    'For England Alec"

    I think EON did indeed forget for a while that Bond was NOT English but British
    I thought it was "No, For ME." ?:)

    It's both- the former during the PTS, the latter at the climax.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    I think for most non British ( unlucky people ;) ) interchange
    British for English. Also I think England sounds better than
    Britain. " For Britain, James" or in Spy " so does Britain" ?
    England sounds better to me. :))
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • AlphaOmegaSinAlphaOmegaSin EnglandPosts: 10,926MI6 Agent
    In a Nutshell, Bond is British -{
    1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    I also think he's a great role model for the UK as ( apart from Lazenby)
    He's been played by all of the four home nations
    English, Irish, Scottish and Welsh. -{ :D
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,062MI6 Agent
    In a Nutshell, Bond is British -{
    You are British? I speak British. Who is your floor?
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • AlphaOmegaSinAlphaOmegaSin EnglandPosts: 10,926MI6 Agent
    :)) :))
    1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    I hate it when people abuse our language and don't speak
    It good like I does ! Or post thing like what I has wrote . :))
    ( Morecambe and Wise -{ )
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • DEFIANT 74205DEFIANT 74205 Perth, AustraliaPosts: 1,881MI6 Agent
    Gassy Man wrote:
    What is Bond's film ethnicity/national identity? We know that Fleming eventually suggested Bond was half Scots and half Swiss, but until the Craig era, I don't recall any onscreen confirmation (and even then, the Craig films reimagine). The only references I've seen on film are that Bond is British or English.

    Ethnicity? Anglo-Saxon white Caucasian. This is never in doubt.

    As far as his nationality is concerned, Bond is British. We do know that he had a Scottish father and a Swiss mother, and that he was educated at Eton, or at least, was, until he was expelled.
    Gassy Man wrote:
    Now, one's ethnic identity does not have to be the same as one's national identity, but I don't recall any onscreen confirmation that Bond was anything but English except that he has been played by actors of different ethnic/national backgrounds.

    Not sure about different ethnic backgrounds - I think you'll find that all of the actors to play Bond have been of white Anglo-Saxon descent. But I'll grant that the actors have had different nationalities. However, all but two of those were British - Brosnan, being Irish, and Lazenby, an Australian.
    Gassy Man wrote:
    Could any caucasian actor therefore play Bond so long as he "looks and sounds" the part, regardless of ethnicity/national identity?

    Theoretically, yes. But I just cannot see any American actor that would be able to play the role of Bond. James Bond is a British institution, and I do think that EON should support the British arts industry by employing predominantly British actors to star in Bond films, and British artists to sing the theme song. I can settle for a non-British actor playing Bond if there was no British actor at the time that make the cut.

    However, given the number of British actors' names that have been floating about as a successor to Craig, I don't think that'll happen anytime soon.
    Gassy Man wrote:
    Still, if Asians can be portrayed by any number of varying ethnicities or nationalities, couldn't any white person essentially play Bond so long as he looks and sounds the part?

    They can, but as indicated above, I firmly believe that preference should be given to British actors.
    Gassy Man wrote:
    Let me amend that and say the actor does not even have to be white, though that is what we have seen so far.

    No, no, no. A thousand times no! This is not negotiable, as far as I'm concerned!
    "Watch the birdie, you bastard!"
  • superadosuperado Regent's Park West (CaliforniaPosts: 2,656MI6 Agent
    Nowadays, you have actors with different backgrounds playing Americans, like many of the cast members of the Walking Dead (I count at least 3 Brits and 1 New Zealander) and 1 American actor playing a Brit comes to mind at this moment, Wes Bentley in Four Feathers. Ooops, I forgot about Robert Downey, Jr. playing Sherlock Holmes, which shows that audience acceptance can go both ways across the Atlantic.

    But with Bond, it seems it is an entirely different situation, a different phenomenon althogether in terms of audience perception and scale of pop culture notoriety. It could be argued that stretching casting limits to include a Commonwealth actor, Lazenby, might have gone against him in terms of public acceptance. For similar reasons, it is unwritten but IMO unnegotiable in the public mindset that Bond must be a heterosexual, caucasian British man and I dare the producers (if they would listen to me) to cast anyone else outside of this criteria (remember the rumor about casting ER's Goran Visnjic?)
    "...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....
  • osrisosris Posts: 558MI6 Agent
    I could accept an American actor playing bond if he could do a plausible English or anglicised Scottish accent (like Connery did in his first three Bond films). I say “English” as there is no such thing as a British accent.
  • PeppermillPeppermill DelftPosts: 2,860MI6 Agent
    I would think that there is no such thing as an Enlish accent given that the language itself is Enlish and that there is an innumerable amount of different Elnglish accents; both within Britain as abroad. It is like saying that I speak Dutch with a Dutch accent.

    Mancunian is an English accent but maybe not appropriate for Bond.
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  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 22,334MI6 Agent
    I think people in and outside Britain expect the actor to be British. Most good actors with a good war for languages can speak British English, but that's not really the point. Brosnan is British - Ireland us one of the British Isles.
  • bond2002bond2002 UKPosts: 55MI6 Agent
    Peppermill wrote:
    I would think that there is no such thing as an Enlish accent given that the language itself is Enlish and that there is an innumerable amount of different Elnglish accents; both within Britain as abroad. It is like saying that I speak Dutch with a Dutch accent.

    Mancunian is an English accent but maybe not appropriate for Bond.

    Daltons accent slips a few times in license to kill
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 37,861Chief of Staff
    osris wrote:
    I could accept an American actor playing bond if he could do a plausible English or anglicised Scottish accent (like Connery did in his first three Bond films). I say “English” as there is no such thing as a British accent.

    No, you say "English" because you are mistaken. See post 2, above. Britain has many accents, not just one, so to that extent you're correct in saying that there is no such thing as "a" British accent but not all of them are suitable for playing James Bond- some of those accents are English, some Scottish, etc.
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 37,861Chief of Staff
    Peppermill wrote:
    I would think that there is no such thing as an Enlish accent given that the language itself is Enlish and that there is an innumerable amount of different Elnglish accents; both within Britain as abroad. It is like saying that I speak Dutch with a Dutch accent.

    Mancunian is an English accent but maybe not appropriate for Bond.

    The innumerable amount of different English accents come from within England, not Britain. See post 2 above.

    I speak with a mild Scottish accent, and I'm a stiff-arse Brit.
  • osrisosris Posts: 558MI6 Agent
    Peppermill wrote:
    I would think that there is no such thing as an Enlish accent given that the language itself is Enlish and that there is an innumerable amount of different Elnglish accents; both within Britain as abroad. It is like saying that I speak Dutch with a Dutch accent.

    Mancunian is an English accent but maybe not appropriate for Bond.

    Correct, I should have said English Received Pronunciation.
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