Rating/Ranking U.S. Presidents + British PM's

Absolutely_CartAbsolutely_Cart NJ/NYC, United StatesPosts: 1,740MI6 Agent
in Off Topic Chat
Like ranking the Bond movies, this has been a fun little game historians and history buffs have done. I know with the nature of this forum, rating the British PM's would be more appropriate (and I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on that if applicable). But I know much more about U.S. history than I do with Britain's.

Just some caution:
I'd like this thread to be discussed in historical context, and civilly. This means, I'd like PM's and Presidents who served in the past 20 years to be left out of the discussion.

I have a list of my top 36 U.S. presidents (excluding recent ones and ones who died early in office), but I should wait for the greenlight that this discussion is okay before I post it.
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  • HardyboyHardyboy Posts: 5,906Chief of Staff
    Hmmm. . .this topic should be approached with extreme caution. It sounds safe, but it's amazing what can turn into a political brouhaha. Example: many years ago I was at the site of the Battle of New Orleans and I posted to AJB how good it is the US and UK have gone so long without going to war with each other, and this was followed by Blair-and-Bush-bashing and a lot of sneering at the "special relationship." So long as people will stick to the standards A_C set out, this topic should be OK. Otherwise, it might be short-lived.
    Vox clamantis in deserto
  • Absolutely_CartAbsolutely_Cart NJ/NYC, United StatesPosts: 1,740MI6 Agent
    edited December 2014
    Here is my list of US President rankings.

    The Greats
    1 Abraham Lincoln - Saved the nation from crumbling. Excellent in nearly all aspects.
    2 Franklin Roosevelt - Led effectively through the Depression and WWII
    3 George Washington - Was basically the founder of democracy.
    4 Lyndon Johnson - History will lean one way or another. And I'll guess which one.
    5 Harry Truman - Handled heavy matters decisively, and a lot of them.
    6 Theodore Roosevelt - Made public health, environmentalism and labor real issues.

    The Goods
    7 John Adams - Kept democracy going. Kept the fledgling nation alive. Underrated.
    8 James Monroe - Was instrumental to the early nation. Won by consensus.
    9 Dwight Eisenhower - Bipartisanship, mostly sound policy and he founded the highways.
    10 James Polk - Immoral, yes, but nonetheless a highly effective leader.
    11 Thomas Jefferson - Economic missteps aside, he doubled the size of the country.
    12 Richard Nixon - Giant list of flaws aside, he really tried, and accomplished a lot
    13 John F. Kennedy - Was more a visionary than executive, but still transformed the nation.

    The Mixed
    14 James Madison - Whether the War of 1812 was right or not, he was a strong leader.
    15 Woodrow Wilson - Not the most competent leader but we remember his idealism
    16 William McKinley - Was a puppet for imperialism, but still managed things well.
    17 Ulysses Grant - Tolerated a lot of corruption, but fought harder than anyone on civil rights.
    18 John Quincy Adams - Not an effective leader, but was quite ahead of his time policy-wise.
    19 Andrew Jackson - Highly effective leader, but caused indian removal and a depression.
    20 Ronald Reagan - A mixed bag. He managed to hurt both superpowers.
    21 Jimmy Carter - No statesman, but we'll appreciate him when we get a real energy crisis.
    22 Gerald Ford - For all his merits, he was a seat-warmer with no agenda of his own.

    Bad
    23 Herbert Hoover - Grossly mischaracterized as a reactionary, but still not effective either.
    24 Grover Cleveland - Independent, anti-imperialist, but was behind on the times.
    25 John Tyler - Established vice-presidential succession and did nothing else.
    26 Warren Harding - He wasn't fit for office, but was he really the worst?
    27 William Howard Taft - Went against Roosevelt's policies and came up with nothing.
    28 Chester Arthur - Reformed political patronage and did nothing else.
    29 Benjamin Harrison - Did nothing significant.
    30 Rutherford Hayes - He knew what was right, but never fought for it.
    31 Calvin Coolidge - There's a difference between limited governing and not governing.
    32 Martin Van Buren - Continued Jackson's horrid policies. Expanded indian removal.
    33 Millard Filmore - Compromise of 1850 only delayed the inevitable.
    34 James Buchanan - As the Civil War was months from breaking out, he did literally nothing.
    35 Andrew Johnson - Was nasty and hostile, vetoing civil rights for blacks for no real reason.
    36 Franklin Pierce - Malleable, he supported slavery in every way he could.

    Unranked:
    Barack Obama
    George W. Bush
    Bill Clinton
    George H.W. Bush
    William Henry Harrison
    Zachary Taylor
    James Garfield
    Grover Cleveland #2

    If George H.W. Bush is eligible for this discussion (not sure), he would be around 12-14.
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  • minigeffminigeff EnglandPosts: 7,884MI6 Agent
    Good politicians?

    Churchill.

    Bad politicians?

    The rest.
    'Force feeding AJB humour and banter since 2009'
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  • AlphaOmegaSinAlphaOmegaSin EnglandPosts: 10,926MI6 Agent
    I can see where this will be going :#
    1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,619MI6 Agent
    Congratulations! The most pointless thread from you by far!
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
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  • DevilMayCare007DevilMayCare007 Posts: 196MI6 Agent
    I would have to disagree about Lyndon Johnson at #4, yes he did the Civil Rights Act of 1964, but left us during the Vietnam War....
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  • Silhouette ManSilhouette Man The last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,845MI6 Agent
    I've always liked Sir Alec Douglas-Home (PM 1963-64) - he was such a decent gentleman and probably the last one not to be an out and out liar. These were much more gentlemanly days:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBezNAaEE3c
    "The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    As far as British PMs go, there doesn't seem much passion in politics in
    General these days. The last politicians to make an impact ( love them, or
    Hate them) :)) were Margaret Thatcher and Tony Blair.
    With the parties these days, their leaders like their policies, seem interchangeable
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Silhouette ManSilhouette Man The last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,845MI6 Agent
    Thunderpussy wrote:
    As far as British PMs go, there doesn't seem much passion in politics in
    General these days. The last politicians to make an impact ( love them, or
    Hate them) :)) were Margaret Thatcher and Tony Blair.
    With the parties these days, their leaders like their policies, seem interchangeable

    Agreed, though I think the Coalition have done a good job to be fair. :) -{
    "The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
  • Thunderbird 2Thunderbird 2 East of Cardiff, Wales.Posts: 2,817MI6 Agent
    Thunderpussy wrote:
    As far as British PMs go, there doesn't seem much passion in politics in
    General these days. The last politicians to make an impact ( love them, or
    Hate them) :)) were Margaret Thatcher and Tony Blair.
    With the parties these days, their leaders like their policies, seem interchangeable


    I agree Pussy. When I was a kid I knew who all the UK politicians of the day were esp the cabinet - because they were regularly lampooned on classic comedy series Spitting Image!! These days I simply don't care, for all of Cameron, Clegg and Milliband's arguments that they are different, they are all a variation of the same insipid, lying untrustworthy incompetent tripe! They need watching carefully, but for all the wrong reasons.

    John Major, Bill Clinton and current US President Obama seem like decent guys, but that is an observation of them as people and public speakers, not political figures. That is all.
    This is Thunderbird 2, how can I be of assistance?
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    I rather Like John Major, he did a lot of work for peace in N.Ireland
    Quietly behind the scenes, yet Blair gets all the credit.
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Silhouette ManSilhouette Man The last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,845MI6 Agent
    Thunderpussy wrote:
    I rather Like John Major, he did a lot of work for peace in N.Ireland
    Quietly behind the scenes, yet Blair gets all the credit.

    Very much agreed.
    "The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
  • Sir MilesSir Miles The Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,754Chief of Staff
    Silhouette Man wrote:
    Thunderpussy wrote:
    As far as British PMs go, there doesn't seem much passion in politics in
    General these days. The last politicians to make an impact ( love them, or
    Hate them) :)) were Margaret Thatcher and Tony Blair.
    With the parties these days, their leaders like their policies, seem interchangeable

    Agreed, though I think the Coalition have done a good job to be fair. :) -{

    That's a VERY late entry for 'Joke of the Year' - but I think you win it with that !
    YNWA 97
  • AlphaOmegaSinAlphaOmegaSin EnglandPosts: 10,926MI6 Agent
    :)) :))
    1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
  • Silhouette ManSilhouette Man The last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,845MI6 Agent
    edited January 2015
    Sir Miles wrote:
    Silhouette Man wrote:
    Thunderpussy wrote:
    As far as British PMs go, there doesn't seem much passion in politics in
    General these days. The last politicians to make an impact ( love them, or
    Hate them) :)) were Margaret Thatcher and Tony Blair.
    With the parties these days, their leaders like their policies, seem interchangeable

    Agreed, though I think the Coalition have done a good job to be fair. :) -{

    That's a VERY late entry for 'Joke of the Year' - but I think you win it with that !

    Perhaps, it's in the eye of the beholder, but are you really suggesting you would have preferred another five years of Gordon Bropwn as PM instead of the Coalition Government? That's an even bigger joke in my view! :))

    P.S. "Ed Milliband" is the biggest joke that I've heard in a long time. :))
    "The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
  • Sir MilesSir Miles The Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,754Chief of Staff
    edited January 2015
    Silhouette Man wrote:
    Sir Miles wrote:
    Silhouette Man wrote:

    Agreed, though I think the Coalition have done a good job to be fair. :) -{

    That's a VERY late entry for 'Joke of the Year' - but I think you win it with that !

    Perhaps, it's in the eye of the beholder, but are you really suggesting you would have preferred another five years of Gordon Bropwn as PM instead of the Coalition Government? That's an even bigger joke in my view! :))

    P.S. "Ed Milliband" is the biggest joike |I've heard in a long time. :))

    Mr Bean could have done a better job than the current clowns we have ! Their policies are failing - and this has been proven throughout history...these 'measures' are exactly the same the Tory Govt used last time - and then the UK was forced into The Great Depression...it's heading that way again...not that they care with all their millions in the bank !
    I work for the NHS and I don't even earn the Govt Standard for a living wage ! How can that be right ?

    Gordon Brown was FAR better but his Labour Party was rife with 'in-fighting'...

    The Coalition Govt IS a failure - EVERYBODY can see that, to say otherwise is silly...I don't think Milliband is any better...
    YNWA 97
  • David SchofieldDavid Schofield EnglandPosts: 1,528MI6 Agent
    Sir Miles wrote:
    Silhouette Man wrote:
    Sir Miles wrote:

    That's a VERY late entry for 'Joke of the Year' - but I think you win it with that !

    Perhaps, it's in the eye of the beholder, but are you really suggesting you would have preferred another five years of Gordon Bropwn as PM instead of the Coalition Government? That's an even bigger joke in my view! :))

    P.S. "Ed Milliband" is the biggest joike |I've heard in a long time. :))

    Mr Bean could have done a better job than the current clowns we have ! Their policies are failing - and this has been proven throughout history...these 'measures' are exactly the same the Tory Govt used last time - and then the UK was forced into The Great Depression...it's heading that way again...not that they care with all their millions in the bank !
    I work for the NHS and I don't even earn the Govt Standard for a living wage ! How can that be right ?

    Gordon Brown was FAR better but his Labour Party was rife with 'in-fighting'...

    The Coalition Govt IS a failure - EVERYBODY can see that, to say otherwise is silly...I don't think Milliband is any better...

    My wife's a District Nurse in a "working class" community in the north of England.

    But politically her views of Brown or the coalition are directly opposite to Sir Miles, even though she has had the "real" income cut to which I think Sir Miles is alluding, together with an increased work-load. She does, however, believe that Milliband is a disconnected, elitist intellectual fantasist.

    Just thought I'd mention that for a bit of political balance from someone at the NHS sharp-end
  • Silhouette ManSilhouette Man The last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,845MI6 Agent
    edited January 2015
    Who else could have done a better job than David Cameron? That's why I'd like to know. No one is the answer, so we need to stop kidding ourselves! It's a foregone conclusion that the Conservatives will win the 2015 General Election - they are a party of Government while Labour goes ever-leftward. And was it not Dr Vince Cable who said Gordon Brown had transformed from "Stalin to Mr Bean"?! :) -{
    "The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
  • Sir MilesSir Miles The Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,754Chief of Staff
    David Schofield wrote:
    Sir Miles wrote:
    Silhouette Man wrote:

    Perhaps, it's in the eye of the beholder, but are you really suggesting you would have preferred another five years of Gordon Bropwn as PM instead of the Coalition Government? That's an even bigger joke in my view! :))

    P.S. "Ed Milliband" is the biggest joike |I've heard in a long time. :))

    Mr Bean could have done a better job than the current clowns we have ! Their policies are failing - and this has been proven throughout history...these 'measures' are exactly the same the Tory Govt used last time - and then the UK was forced into The Great Depression...it's heading that way again...not that they care with all their millions in the bank !
    I work for the NHS and I don't even earn the Govt Standard for a living wage ! How can that be right ?

    Gordon Brown was FAR better but his Labour Party was rife with 'in-fighting'...

    The Coalition Govt IS a failure - EVERYBODY can see that, to say otherwise is silly...I don't think Milliband is any better...

    My wife's a District Nurse in a "working class" community in the north of England.

    But politically her views of Brown or the coalition are directly opposite to Sir Miles, even though she has had the "real" income cut to which I think Sir Miles is alluding, together with an increased work-load. She does, however, believe that Milliband is a disconnected, elitist intellectual fantasist.

    Just thought I'd mention that for a bit of political balance from someone at the NHS sharp-end

    What are you 'balancing' up ?:) I made it clear Milliband is no better...so your 'point' seems mute...you are more than welcome to voice your opinion, but no need to use my opinions to voice yours...they are ALL clowns...just Cameron and Clegg wear the red nose better...

    NHS ? No pay rise for years, funding cuts, hospitals closing...and many staff earn LESS than the GOVERNMENT recommend living wage...whilst the money wasted is nothing short of criminal...but they all have private healthcare...so why do they bother ?
    YNWA 97
  • David SchofieldDavid Schofield EnglandPosts: 1,528MI6 Agent
    Sir Miles wrote:
    David Schofield wrote:
    Sir Miles wrote:

    Mr Bean could have done a better job than the current clowns we have ! Their policies are failing - and this has been proven throughout history...these 'measures' are exactly the same the Tory Govt used last time - and then the UK was forced into The Great Depression...it's heading that way again...not that they care with all their millions in the bank !
    I work for the NHS and I don't even earn the Govt Standard for a living wage ! How can that be right ?

    Gordon Brown was FAR better but his Labour Party was rife with 'in-fighting'...

    The Coalition Govt IS a failure - EVERYBODY can see that, to say otherwise is silly...I don't think Milliband is any better...

    My wife's a District Nurse in a "working class" community in the north of England.

    But politically her views of Brown or the coalition are directly opposite to Sir Miles, even though she has had the "real" income cut to which I think Sir Miles is alluding, together with an increased work-load. She does, however, believe that Milliband is a disconnected, elitist intellectual fantasist.

    Just thought I'd mention that for a bit of political balance from someone at the NHS sharp-end

    What are you 'balancing' up ?:) I made it clear Milliband is no better...so your 'point' seems mute...you are more than welcome to voice your opinion, but no need to use my opinions to voice yours...they are ALL clowns...just Cameron and Clegg wear the red nose better...

    NHS ? No pay rise for years, funding cuts, hospitals closing...and many staff earn LESS than the GOVERNMENT recommend living wage...whilst the money wasted is nothing short of criminal...but they all have private healthcare...so why do they bother ?

    Hang on, SM, trying to avoid a silly political fire-fight (on a James Bond website - I'm pissing myself with laughter) but...

    To clarify, the "balancing" to which I refer is that my wife believes that the coalition is a better option that your choice of Brown, rates Cameron, and like you works in the NHS. Like you, she has not time for Milliband, but this is a separate issue and does not involve "balancing" .

    At the sharp end of the NHS she has experienced the cut-backs and extra workload, as I pointed out originally. And she has little time for "non-med" staff.

    So more consideration of the points made, please, whether you agree with the political views or not.
  • Sir MilesSir Miles The Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,754Chief of Staff
    No political Fire fight from me...I thought I'd made it clear they were all clowns so I'm not sure what 'side' im supposed to be on ?:)

    What points did you make again ? I can't see any...just a preference for the Coalition....
    YNWA 97
  • David SchofieldDavid Schofield EnglandPosts: 1,528MI6 Agent
    Sir Miles wrote:
    No political Fire fight from me...I thought I'd made it clear they were all clowns so I'm not sure what 'side' im supposed to be on ?:)

    What points did you make again ? I can't see any...just a preference for the Coalition....

    Points I made? The ones you care to have read though I my posts?

    That my wife's a District Nurse in a "working class" community in the north of England? That she has had the "real" income cut to which I think you,Sir Miles, are alluding, together with an increased work-load? That at the sharp end of the NHS she has experienced the cut-backs and extra workload. Yet has a politically juxtaposed view to your own?

    Out of interest, Sir Miles, what's your role in the NHS?
  • cheldcheld Posts: 300MI6 Agent
    I like Thomas Jefferson, Andrew Jackson and UKIP.

    I despise Woodrow Wilson and LBJ.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    Here's an old QI question.
    Who was the first President of America ?
    Most ( like me) would say George Washington .

    But, to be strictly correct ( and a bit of a smart arse ) it was....
    .... Peyton Randolph ( 1722-1775), it was still a colony then. ;)
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Sir MilesSir Miles The Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,754Chief of Staff
    David Schofield wrote:
    Sir Miles wrote:
    No political Fire fight from me...I thought I'd made it clear they were all clowns so I'm not sure what 'side' im supposed to be on ?:)

    What points did you make again ? I can't see any...just a preference for the Coalition....

    Points I made? The ones you care to have read though I my posts?

    That my wife's a District Nurse in a "working class" community in the north of England? That she has had the "real" income cut to which I think you,Sir Miles, are alluding, together with an increased work-load? That at the sharp end of the NHS she has experienced the cut-backs and extra workload. Yet has a politically juxtaposed view to your own?

    Out of interest, Sir Miles, what's your role in the NHS?

    Not looking for an argument at all here...

    Those are NOT points...more of a CV...you make no points about policy at all...your wife cannot possibly have a "politically juxtaposed view" to mine...I said they are ALL clowns...so I'm perplexed as to why you pursue this ?:)

    My 'role' in the NHS is porter/driver - the lowest possible job to have, lowest pay and no bonus...and UNDER the Govt recommend living wage...
    YNWA 97
  • AlphaOmegaSinAlphaOmegaSin EnglandPosts: 10,926MI6 Agent
    I knew where this Thread would lead to :#
    1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
  • Sir MilesSir Miles The Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,754Chief of Staff
    AlphaOmegaSin wrote:
    I knew where this Thread would lead to :#

    It always does...more threads have been closed on this subject than any other....
    YNWA 97
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,619MI6 Agent
    AlphaOmegaSin wrote:
    I knew where this Thread would lead to :#

    +1
    a pointless thread with only one purpose: Clash of opinions and political views. X-(

    Seriously, what have we learnt so far from this thread?
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  • Sir MilesSir Miles The Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,754Chief of Staff
    Higgins wrote:
    AlphaOmegaSin wrote:
    I knew where this Thread would lead to :#

    +1
    a pointless thread with only one purpose: Clash of opinions and political views. X-(

    Seriously, what have we learnt so far from this thread?

    That I don't even earn the Govt Living Wage !!! :D :#

    It's always a clash of opinions....I'm not really sure why people get so hung up on politics....you can't change it and you can't please even 50% of the voters....
    YNWA 97
  • SimonTemplarSimonTemplar Posts: 77MI6 Agent
    The best US president is Xi Jinping :p
    Best British PM is Simon Cowell :p

    Anyone else is just pretending to be in the jobs.
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