Pros and Cons: Die Another Day
Absolutely_Cart
NJ/NYC, United StatesPosts: 1,740MI6 Agent
Released in 2002, featuring Pierce Brosnan as James Bond. It smashed the box office sales but was met with mixed reviews and over the years, fans have regarded it as one of the worst films in the series.
Pros
[list=*]
[*]Sci-fi and political elements take on new themes[/*]
[*]A wide wide variety of beautiful colorful atmospheres and locales[/*]
[*]Smooth, dense directing ; stays interesting[/*]
[*]Paces well ; flows from one place to another fast[/*]
[*]The fencing fight with Bond and Graves[/*]
[*]Halle Berry's Jinx is one of the best heroines in the series[/*]
[*]Some CGI effects (like the simulated fire fight) were cool[/*]
[*]Invisible Aston Martin is the gadget of gadgets.[/*]
[/list]
Cons
[list=*]
[*]Fleming is probably turning in his grave[/*]
[*]More of an action sci-fi film than a spy film[/*]
[*]Some noticeable CGI effects break viewer immersion[/*]
[*]Brosnan was chubby for a North Korean prisoner[/*]
[*]Could have done without the Moneypenny scene[/*]
[*]Some corny dialogue was forced into the script[/*]
[/list]
The Bond series cycles between silly and serious, and as the times change, we seek new things. This is one of the most absurd movies in the series, and even Roger Moore said it was too absurd for him. But at the same time, at the moment we're informed by a trend of seriousness in the film industry. Everything today is dark, gritty, realistic, violent, and gory in 1080p high definition - quite the opposite of 2002. We might find the Craig films to be laughably macho and praise the writers of DAD for being honest about it.
But truth be told, for a silly film, it takes on a number of serious themes. Unresolved tensions with North Korea. In an era where the Cold War is over, rogue commanders are a greater threat than nations, and it's good the series removed itself from Russain villains for a bit. Changing one's genetics, in a Flowers From Algernon way. The East's jealousy of the West both in the admiration of western culture and the hatred toward the hegemony it has, culminating in the face-off between Korean general Moon and his transformed son, Graves who modeled his new "disgusting" self on Bond. And using a big laser from the sky to clear out landmines in South Korea is definitely a better master plan than many of the other ones we've seen. So, it works as sci-fi. Not the escapist sci-fi of Star Wars, but one that shows us what a 21st century world saturated in new technologies could be like.
I had a blast watching the film the first time. The second time I watched it, yes, some of the shine was taken off, but the positives still outweighed the negatives. At the end of the day, it's no masterpiece, but it's not a bad movie either. Underrated and maybe we'll warm up to it eventually.
Pros
[list=*]
[*]Sci-fi and political elements take on new themes[/*]
[*]A wide wide variety of beautiful colorful atmospheres and locales[/*]
[*]Smooth, dense directing ; stays interesting[/*]
[*]Paces well ; flows from one place to another fast[/*]
[*]The fencing fight with Bond and Graves[/*]
[*]Halle Berry's Jinx is one of the best heroines in the series[/*]
[*]Some CGI effects (like the simulated fire fight) were cool[/*]
[*]Invisible Aston Martin is the gadget of gadgets.[/*]
[/list]
Cons
[list=*]
[*]Fleming is probably turning in his grave[/*]
[*]More of an action sci-fi film than a spy film[/*]
[*]Some noticeable CGI effects break viewer immersion[/*]
[*]Brosnan was chubby for a North Korean prisoner[/*]
[*]Could have done without the Moneypenny scene[/*]
[*]Some corny dialogue was forced into the script[/*]
[/list]
The Bond series cycles between silly and serious, and as the times change, we seek new things. This is one of the most absurd movies in the series, and even Roger Moore said it was too absurd for him. But at the same time, at the moment we're informed by a trend of seriousness in the film industry. Everything today is dark, gritty, realistic, violent, and gory in 1080p high definition - quite the opposite of 2002. We might find the Craig films to be laughably macho and praise the writers of DAD for being honest about it.
But truth be told, for a silly film, it takes on a number of serious themes. Unresolved tensions with North Korea. In an era where the Cold War is over, rogue commanders are a greater threat than nations, and it's good the series removed itself from Russain villains for a bit. Changing one's genetics, in a Flowers From Algernon way. The East's jealousy of the West both in the admiration of western culture and the hatred toward the hegemony it has, culminating in the face-off between Korean general Moon and his transformed son, Graves who modeled his new "disgusting" self on Bond. And using a big laser from the sky to clear out landmines in South Korea is definitely a better master plan than many of the other ones we've seen. So, it works as sci-fi. Not the escapist sci-fi of Star Wars, but one that shows us what a 21st century world saturated in new technologies could be like.
I had a blast watching the film the first time. The second time I watched it, yes, some of the shine was taken off, but the positives still outweighed the negatives. At the end of the day, it's no masterpiece, but it's not a bad movie either. Underrated and maybe we'll warm up to it eventually.
Comments
Much on ( very bad) CGI.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Mines to pop up and explode in the faces of his pursuers {[]
Brilliant stuff, don't know if it's possible but it looks so Cool.
Yeah, it's like the anecdote with a university gym coach arguing with a university scientist. The scientist says, "Why do you get paid twice as much money as I do. Science has way more merit than gym class". Then the gym coach replies, "This football team brings the school millions of dollar and is paying for your salary."
AJB007 Favorite Film Rankings
Pros and Cons Compendium (50 Years)
Ripped apart for not being over the top and full of jokes and
Gadgets.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Okay, but seriously though, I like a little absurd in my Bond, an animal scare or a laser or something.
CR was awesome on many levels, but it was missing the special little dopey moment.
Then again, DAD was replete with them. 8-)
It's a balancing act.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
The story is not bad to begin with.
Halle Berry
Sword fight at the club
Madonna cameo and her line "I don't like **** fights".
Gustave Graves entrance. Spectacular, with "London Calling" blasting.
Henchmen
Cons:
John Cleese as Q
Overlong PTS
Invisible cars? please no.
The story is unbalanced. From realism goes to comic book when it moves to Iceland.
Brosnan surfing a tsunami.
Overuse of (bad) CGI.
In general, as with all Brosnan period, quite disappointing. First shows promise, but in the end the cons weight more than pros.
AJB007 Favorite Film Rankings
Pros and Cons Compendium (50 Years)
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
GE was significant and memorable, but had some dull moments.
TND was fun to watch, but lacked historical significance.
TWINE had lots of good elements but lacked refinement
DAD was really fun but too far off the deep end
So in the end, you got 4 movies that were all fun to watch (and none were bad), but you only got 1 real classic among them.
AJB007 Favorite Film Rankings
Pros and Cons Compendium (50 Years)
In the 90's I hated most Moore films. Now I like most of them. Things change with time...
I loved YOLT as a kid. I hated it in the 80's. Now it's in my top ten.
Always in motion is the future....
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Like I said in another thread, Craig's form of macho man masculinity will be outdated in favor of Brosnan's more gentle masculinity, but the movies themselves were at fault not because of Brosnan's acting, but because of the writing. No doubt in my mind Die Another Day (and TWINE) will soar, but they're never gonna be classics. I'll eat my words if I'm wrong.
AJB007 Favorite Film Rankings
Pros and Cons Compendium (50 Years)
That's my look into the future (my present) anyway.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
AJB007 Favorite Film Rankings
Pros and Cons Compendium (50 Years)
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
To be honest I am with you here. It should be held as a warning that a Bond film should not be kike this..
My first viewing of Die Another Day was memorable for all the wrong reasons. For a start the hype was immense. It was the fortieth anniversary and this was a good hook for numerous worldwide media . The budget was colossal and the advertising budget the size of a small country. DAD was, to be fair, an event movie. Its premiere was at the Royal Albert Hall with Madonna, Halle Berry, Pierce Brosnan and a number of ex Bonds in a attendance (my suspicions should have been aroused with Tim Daltons tight-lipped diplomatic verdict). But it was a major show business event. I saw the film in my local fleapit with my partner and we settled down to see how the new Brosnan effort measured up.
Almost from the off it made a wrong move. The Bond swivel and shot now presumed that Bond was such a good shot that he could fire down the barrel of a targets gun (a Tamahori suggestion). From there the film progressed with a surfing entry, a hovercraft chase and a bad oneliner. Not bad, we can live with this. The titles were interesting with scorpions mixed with a fire and ice motif and the much lauded “grit” of being kept in a North Korean prison seemed to work. In fact the film, although no classic, isn’t painful until Bond escapes his confinement by stopping his heart! I’ll say that again by STOPPING HIS HEART! Who is he? Superman? Suspension for the first time since the hovercraft gondola goes completely out of the window. People say about DAD that there is a moment when the dawning hits you that the film would be crud. For some it is the invisible car, for others the entrance of Jinx, some people even last as long as the iceberg cgi. But the sinking feeling, for me, started with the heart-stopping. My suspension of disbelief went out of the window.
And thats fatal with James Bond. The films are a mixture of the real and the ridiculous. Someone said with WHO you must not send it up but play it straight or it never works. Roger sent it up occasionally and to be frank – those parts didn’t always work . They distracted from the film. Brosnans problem with this isn’t so much the sending up because that doesn’t happen – the director was playing it for real. He was playing the invisible car for real. He tries to send it up with numerous puerile oneliners the way Roger did but they are so cackhandedly delivered /written they go down like a lead balloon. Almost everything doesn’t work in DAD. It’s a balls up of epic proportions and the blame lies with one man
Lee Tamahori
By this time Babs Broccoli was sort of flailing around for new stories. When this happens they tend to go back to what they haven’t used in Fleming. This time they went back to Moonraker. The character of Drax would be called Gustav Graves and the plot of a member of the British establishment wanting to destroy Britain with a rocket was revived. Purvis and Wade had a script and ideas. Then Tamahori came along. The reason he got the job was that he convinced Babs and Mickey G that Bond had to move with the times. That old fashioned stuntwork should be jettisoned for cgi, that quick editing was the way forward. He admits quoting it had to appeal to the MTV generation.
"Whoa dude, Bond is surfin', look at him shredd!!!", "whoa, that's that guy from Fast and the Furious bro!", "CGI rawks!", "Halle Berry's hott, I wanna bone her", "LOL, 'keep my tip up'! this is funny man", "look at those sweet cars bro!", "whoa, Bond is para-surfin dude" etc.
He is also on record as saying the Bonds were like Carry On films so got Purvis and Wade to do rewrites with some of the most godawful lines ever committed to a Bond film. No wonder Brosnan looks unhappy.
I hope this is a warning to the Bonds not to stray to far into OTT territory. There be dragons..
I think you have got GE down to a tee. It was many people first Bond movie and gets accolades from that. But compared with the Craigs...
Its only with CR that they knew exactly what direction they wanted. With the Brosnan era they were flailing around with different directors trying to get a grip on each Bond movie..
Bullseye. Perfect description of the Brosnan years. It's not surprising, though. They were essentially a new team and had to find their way.
I enjoy things about the Brosnan films, but in general they disappointed me. That includes my all time low of the franchise, TND. The only one I consider not disappointing is TWINE. I've been consistent with that from the day I first saw them in 1995,1997,1999 and 2002.
You reserve disappointing for films I like very much. It's just normal to have different opinions.
The Guardian sticks the boot in...
My BIGGEST gripe was the dialogue. It is just pitifully bad. Everyone loves Bond's oneliners when sparse and well timed, but this film took it off the deep end. Not only was almost EVERY SINGLE LINE uttered from Brosnan a silly pun, but almost every other character shared in it! The entire population of the film shouldn't share Bond's sense of humor. It came off incredibly one dimensional and infantile.
I posted examples elsewhere, but watch it again with that in mind and you will see that every person, almost every line, is pun after pun, after pun. When you are using double entendre and pun as exposition, you have gone too far!
The first part of the movie up until Bond leaves Cuba.
Cons
The rest of the movie!
And I must comment separately on Jinx (Halle Berry), as I see that some commentators consider her as an asset, while others view her as one of the film's worst elements:
Pros
Seeing Berry on screen. She is top of the line when it comes to the gorgeousness of Bond Girls.
Cons
Just about every time Berry opens her mouth. She has absolutely some of the worst lines and worst line readings in the entire series.
On another note, I remember a guy talking about shaking Pierce Brosnan's hand and then saying to him "This is the closest my hand has ever been to Halle Berry's ass".
AJB007 Favorite Film Rankings
Pros and Cons Compendium (50 Years)