I feel like Orlov should have been the main villain of the movie and not Khan. Khan is just some guy who wants a pay off, and Orlov is the megalomaniac with the plan, so I feel he is more special that way. I mean usually the ones who are fighting for the cause are the true villains, and not the bribe takers.
I feel like Orlov should have been the main villain of the movie and not Khan. Khan is just some guy who wants a pay off, and Orlov is the megalomaniac with the plan, so I feel he is more special that way. I mean usually the ones who are fighting for the cause are the true villains, and not the bribe takers.
Excellent point.
I wonder how Kahn became so committed to the plan that he would involve himself in planting the nuclear bomb in the US Air Force base? Seems like that would have been Orlov's department.
My current 10 favorite:
1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
A lot of people complain about Bond's clown costume, but the costume is what got him past everyone and to the bomb, so it made sense. It's certainly a lot better than Bond's Japanese disguise in You Only Live Twice, and that disguise was so bad, I don't see how it often gets a free pass in comparison.
It's not about the disguise, it's about the actor in the disguise.
Well what's wrong with the actor?
A lot of people don't appreciate Roger Moore because they think he treated Bond like a joke. For some reason, people think that Roger Moore in a clown suit is his biggest joke of all, yet they can't see how serious he plays Bond in that scene.
the fact that children and generals are laughing at him while there's thirty seconds left really twists the suspense round and round, adds a macabre black humour ... its very much like a Hitchcock situation
the final showdown in the middle of a crowded theatre in itself is a recurring Hitchcock setpiece (eg The 39 Steps, The Man Who Knew Too Much, or Torn Curtain), theres a lot of chaos added by the audience, the ability of the pursuers and the pursued to blend into the crowd, the breakdown of the stage show and the audience not knowing the difference, and those inadequate fire escapes when the panic starts ... Octopussy adds to that by putting Bond on stage, in costume as one of the performers, specifically the one the audience is conditioned to laugh at
Really good points. Nice to see a heap of praise for the clown scene!!
Enjoyed watching OP again tonight. Just a few notes:
The scene with M and Bond at Checkpoint Charlie is good, but I wish Bond would have elaborated on answering the question of how Orlov is involved with a jewelry caper. Or why an Afghan prince is involved with detonating a soviet bomb on the US Air Force base.
The car chase is one of my favorites just because it's a straight-forward intense chase with no gadgets or gimmicks.
Why are the US Generals sitting next to Octopussy and Kahn? Why wasn't Octopussy placed under arrest after Bond incriminated her for jewelry smuggling right in front of the generals?
The staple scenes with Moneypenny, M's office, and Q's laboratory are among my least favorites, but I'm still glad they are in the film instead of like LALD which has none.
My current 10 favorite:
1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
Why are the US Generals sitting next to Octopussy and Kahn? Why wasn't Octopussy placed under arrest after Bond incriminated her for jewelry smuggling right in front of the generals?
A good question. They are sitting next to them because it's their circus and they're guests/hosts. But you're right - how the hell did they get away with the whole thing and even get a whisker of going back to India!?
Why are the US Generals sitting next to Octopussy and Kahn? Why wasn't Octopussy placed under arrest after Bond incriminated her for jewelry smuggling right in front of the generals?
US Generals are the most important people there, so they sit with the people who run the circus: the hosts.
Why would US generals care about jewellery smuggling?
it may not have been the Generals job to arrest a jewel thief, but there must have been some major police activity in that circus tent following the successful defusing of the bomb, and as owner of the circus Octopussy would have had to cooperate and her jewelry smuggling been revealed before all
I suspect Bond, the very influential British agent, did some fast talking and vouched for her, much as he did with Pussy Galore and Tiffany Case in previous adventures ... once they realised he wasn't just some clown
By the time Bond got to the circus, the jewels were gone. Without seeing evidence of jewel smuggling, the US military and police will not be concerned with what Bond has to say about jewellery in passing. It doesn't concern them, and they're not going to think too much about it or put in the effort to investigate something they overheard. Bond didn't even mention anything about "smuggling" in front of the general. The smuggling did not affect anything that the US military was doing. The major police activity at the circus was not going to discover anything having to do with jewel smuggling either. James Bond is really the only person outside of the operation who knows that it is going on. Even if he didn't care about Octopussy personally, he wouldn't care to report the jewel smuggling either. Officials, Bond, military or police, don't go out of their way to investigate things that don't concern them.
Yes, but the jewellery smuggling is connected to the bomb....
When an atomic bomb is involved, they're going to take Bond's attitude and not worry about jewellery smuggling. As Octopussy said, 'smuggling is no concern of the secret service'. It's not of anyone investigating the bomb either.
Yes, but the jewellery smuggling is connected to the bomb....
When an atomic bomb is involved, they're going to take Bond's attitude and not worry about jewellery smuggling. As Octopussy said, 'smuggling is no concern of the secret service'. It's not of anyone investigating the bomb either.
Yes not the act of the jewellery smuggling itself, but it's connected to the overall atomic bomb crime. So anyone involved is a suspect.
A lot of people complain about Bond's clown costume, but the costume is what got him past everyone and to the bomb, so it made sense. It's certainly a lot better than Bond's Japanese disguise in You Only Live Twice, and that disguise was so bad, I don't see how it often gets a free pass in comparison.
Good point. And another one regarding the clown outfit is the context; the first time we see it, the wearer of an outfit that's normally associated with mirth and joy, is frantically running for his life in the dark woods, a sight that's disturbing and ironic to the viewer. We then find out he was a British agent, who just infiltrated a circus...the first connection with the opposition in the movie along with the Faberge egg. Then later on, we see our hero wearing the same costume and makeup and in context, we are not supposed to think it ridiculous seeing this. To be fair, on the other hand, Bond earlier wearing the gorilla suit seemed just so random and rightly so...weird.
"...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....
Yes, but the jewellery smuggling is connected to the bomb....
When an atomic bomb is involved, they're going to take Bond's attitude and not worry about jewellery smuggling. As Octopussy said, 'smuggling is no concern of the secret service'. It's not of anyone investigating the bomb either.
This bit of dialog from Maud is troubling to me, because if that were true that what was 009 doing in Berlin? Quite a bit of the film is involved with jewelry smuggling. Not to mention the smuggling operations in Diamonds Are Forever and Goldfinger ...
Speaking of 009, no one seems to mind that HE was dressed in a clown outfit.
My current 10 favorite:
1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
Anyone seen Paddington 2 yet? The train action sequence was very similiar to the one in Octopussy. Like practically a shot for shot remake, but edited differently.
And the towards the end there was also a direct nod to Casino Royale.
My current 10 favorite:
1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
- Excellent second half. Maybe the best second half of any Bond film, which makes it so fun to watch whereas other Bond films get bogged down in their “big final battle”
Even though I would consider TSWLM the best of the RM era and the “must see” film for a newcomer, I find OP more entertaining for repeat viewings.
Cons:
- A bit uneven in parts with some of the humor
My current 10 favorite:
1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
Even though I would consider TSWLM the best of the RM era and the “must see” film for a newcomer, I find OP more entertaining for repeat viewings.
Absolutely agree with that. OP is my go-to Moore film when I can't decide what to watch. It has the right balance of fun (1st half) and serious tone (2nd half).
Octopussy is an interesting one... While it is in my top ten I don't talk about it a lot. It's just an interesting Bond film, with over the top humor, seriousness as well and a great performance from Roger Moore and the supporting cast. My only flaws would be that some of the Berlin scenes really drag on and the plot is confusing to me even to this day. Could someone explain the plot with the diamonds vs the bomb?
- Moore's performance feels average to me.
- Some stuff drags in the first half.
- Bond's seduction of the title character feels unearned.
- Gobinda's a forgettable henchman.
However, the film benefits from having a good villain in Kamal Khan, good BGs, possibly my favorite score of the franchise, the 2nd half flows really well, and there's good action.
So all in all, a 7/10 from me.
"Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
Bond actors to be re-ranked later
Yes, but the jewellery smuggling is connected to the bomb....
When an atomic bomb is involved, they're going to take Bond's attitude and not worry about jewellery smuggling. As Octopussy said, 'smuggling is no concern of the secret service'. It's not of anyone investigating the bomb either.
This bit of dialog from Maud is troubling to me, because if that were true that what was 009 doing in Berlin? Quite a bit of the film is involved with jewelry smuggling. Not to mention the smuggling operations in Diamonds Are Forever and Goldfinger ...
Speaking of 009, no one seems to mind that HE was dressed in a clown outfit.
Yes I do tend to think the start of this movie is a problem: 009 turns up dressed as A CLOWN, having come from presumably the nearby CIRCUS which is in BERLIN (he has a CIRCUS KNIFETHROWER's knife in his back), and James Bond and M decide it might be a good idea to start their investigation... in India. Might there not be a few clues that would suggest checking out the nearest circus in Berlin?!
When an atomic bomb is involved, they're going to take Bond's attitude and not worry about jewellery smuggling. As Octopussy said, 'smuggling is no concern of the secret service'. It's not of anyone investigating the bomb either.
This bit of dialog from Maud is troubling to me, because if that were true that what was 009 doing in Berlin? Quite a bit of the film is involved with jewelry smuggling. Not to mention the smuggling operations in Diamonds Are Forever and Goldfinger ...
Speaking of 009, no one seems to mind that HE was dressed in a clown outfit.
Yes I do tend to think the start of this movie is a problem: 009 turns up dressed as A CLOWN, having come from presumably the nearby CIRCUS which is in BERLIN (he has a CIRCUS KNIFETHROWER's knife in his back), and James Bond and M decide it might be a good idea to start their investigation... in India. Might there not be a few clues that would suggest checking out the nearest circus in Berlin?!
Their best lead was Kamal Khan, who was determined to win the egg that was copied, so Bond followed him to India.
Comments
Excellent point.
I wonder how Kahn became so committed to the plan that he would involve himself in planting the nuclear bomb in the US Air Force base? Seems like that would have been Orlov's department.
1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
A lot of people don't appreciate Roger Moore because they think he treated Bond like a joke. For some reason, people think that Roger Moore in a clown suit is his biggest joke of all, yet they can't see how serious he plays Bond in that scene.
Really good points. Nice to see a heap of praise for the clown scene!!
"Better make that two."
The scene with M and Bond at Checkpoint Charlie is good, but I wish Bond would have elaborated on answering the question of how Orlov is involved with a jewelry caper. Or why an Afghan prince is involved with detonating a soviet bomb on the US Air Force base.
The car chase is one of my favorites just because it's a straight-forward intense chase with no gadgets or gimmicks.
Why are the US Generals sitting next to Octopussy and Kahn? Why wasn't Octopussy placed under arrest after Bond incriminated her for jewelry smuggling right in front of the generals?
The staple scenes with Moneypenny, M's office, and Q's laboratory are among my least favorites, but I'm still glad they are in the film instead of like LALD which has none.
1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
A good question. They are sitting next to them because it's their circus and they're guests/hosts. But you're right - how the hell did they get away with the whole thing and even get a whisker of going back to India!?
"Better make that two."
US Generals are the most important people there, so they sit with the people who run the circus: the hosts.
Why would US generals care about jewellery smuggling?
I suspect Bond, the very influential British agent, did some fast talking and vouched for her, much as he did with Pussy Galore and Tiffany Case in previous adventures ... once they realised he wasn't just some clown
"Better make that two."
When an atomic bomb is involved, they're going to take Bond's attitude and not worry about jewellery smuggling. As Octopussy said, 'smuggling is no concern of the secret service'. It's not of anyone investigating the bomb either.
Yes not the act of the jewellery smuggling itself, but it's connected to the overall atomic bomb crime. So anyone involved is a suspect.
"Better make that two."
Good point. And another one regarding the clown outfit is the context; the first time we see it, the wearer of an outfit that's normally associated with mirth and joy, is frantically running for his life in the dark woods, a sight that's disturbing and ironic to the viewer. We then find out he was a British agent, who just infiltrated a circus...the first connection with the opposition in the movie along with the Faberge egg. Then later on, we see our hero wearing the same costume and makeup and in context, we are not supposed to think it ridiculous seeing this. To be fair, on the other hand, Bond earlier wearing the gorilla suit seemed just so random and rightly so...weird.
This bit of dialog from Maud is troubling to me, because if that were true that what was 009 doing in Berlin? Quite a bit of the film is involved with jewelry smuggling. Not to mention the smuggling operations in Diamonds Are Forever and Goldfinger ...
Speaking of 009, no one seems to mind that HE was dressed in a clown outfit.
1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
Now that's a complaint too far for the Fleming and Connery purists!
"Better make that two."
And the towards the end there was also a direct nod to Casino Royale.
1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
- Excellent second half. Maybe the best second half of any Bond film, which makes it so fun to watch whereas other Bond films get bogged down in their “big final battle”
Even though I would consider TSWLM the best of the RM era and the “must see” film for a newcomer, I find OP more entertaining for repeat viewings.
Cons:
- A bit uneven in parts with some of the humor
1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
Absolutely agree with that. OP is my go-to Moore film when I can't decide what to watch. It has the right balance of fun (1st half) and serious tone (2nd half).
8. TMwtGG 9. AVtaK 10. TSWLM 11. SF 12. LtK 13. TND 14. YOLT
15. NTtD 16. MR 17. LaLD 18. GF 19. SP 20. DN 21. TB
22. TWiNE 23. DAD 24. QoS 25. DaF
1. Dalton 2. Moore 3. Connery 4. Lazenby 5. Craig 6. Brosnan
My criticisms:
- Moore's performance feels average to me.
- Some stuff drags in the first half.
- Bond's seduction of the title character feels unearned.
- Gobinda's a forgettable henchman.
However, the film benefits from having a good villain in Kamal Khan, good BGs, possibly my favorite score of the franchise, the 2nd half flows really well, and there's good action.
So all in all, a 7/10 from me.
New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
Bond actors to be re-ranked later
Yes I do tend to think the start of this movie is a problem: 009 turns up dressed as A CLOWN, having come from presumably the nearby CIRCUS which is in BERLIN (he has a CIRCUS KNIFETHROWER's knife in his back), and James Bond and M decide it might be a good idea to start their investigation... in India. Might there not be a few clues that would suggest checking out the nearest circus in Berlin?!
Their best lead was Kamal Khan, who was determined to win the egg that was copied, so Bond followed him to India.