I remember around 10 years ago on AJB that TWINE was ranked right along GE as Brosnan's two finest films…in the same way that FYEO is often ranked alongside TSWLM for Moore's best work.
At one time, TND was many people's favourite Bond film. Back in 1999 everyone I knew liked TND much more than GE and TWINE. I liked TWINE and didn't care for GE and TND at all. Looking at the ranking thread from 2005, TND was much higher than it was today. Daniel Craig changed the way many people think about Bond films.
1 after elektras death everything feels anti climactic
2 because elektra is so strong Christmas jones is more terrible than she would otherwise have been (eg think how much worse Stacey Sutton would have been with octopussy on the scene)
Well you have certainly convinced me, some great arguments there Barbel. I think TWINE has a depth to the story and characters (especially Elektra) that mean with each viewing my opinion of the film will only get better. I agree its Brosnan's best performance helped by the depth of that storyline.
I joined AJB obviously to discuss the films but also to pick up from other fans their opinions that may change my own thoughts on certain films. TWINE is ranked quite low with me, time for a re-watch I think
TWINE has a really good story, so much so that SF borrowed a lot from it
Thanks for pointing this out. SF also borrowed a lot from Goldeneye. I'm glad others are noticing this blatant plagiarism of the "poorly written" Brosnan scripts.
At one time, TND was many people's favourite Bond film. Back in 1999 everyone I knew liked TND much more than GE and TWINE.
Right on. All I remember (circa 2005) were Bond fans groaning about Bond going into "Terminator Mode." That's the fun part about AJB though…reading other fans' opinions.
Like both. If it makes sense, I'd say that Craig's acting was better and he had better role immersion. But I liked the personality, manners and style of Brosnan much more.
Like each Bond actor before him, Brosnan brought his own Elements to the Role -{ I've always largely ignored the whole 'Brosnan vs Craig' Feeling that some Fans hold.
1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
Well you have certainly convinced me, some great arguments there Barbel.
Thanks, Wicker Man. {[]
I'm not meaning to change anyone's opinion of this or any other film, we all have our preferences, but just giving reaons why I don't dismiss it.
Like each Bond actor before him, Brosnan brought his own Elements to the Role -{ I've always largely ignored the whole 'Brosnan vs Craig' Feeling that some Fans hold.
I try to believe this...
1. For Your Eyes Only 2. The Living Daylights 3 From Russia with Love 4. Casino Royale 5. OHMSS 6. Skyfall
I do think it's Brosnan's best performance as 007. Although like many I found the
Ski chase to be very pedestrian and in fact boring, with the ending ( reminding me,
of TMWTGG) being slightly claustrophobic, and lack lustre.
That said it also has a few high points. -{ so for me it's a bit of a mixed bag.
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
I really enjoyed it. Elektra is one of my favourite villains/Bond girls, with the sympathy constantly shifting. What I find intriguing about TWINE is that the villains are shown to be tragic figures- the classic villain aim of world domination just isn't enough.
I don't think Bond was in love with Elektra; Elektra was only just twenty-one. He sees her as the archetypal damsel in distress/damaged woman whose innocence has been destroyed, which as a macho character appeals to him.
TWINE is so jarring because is simultaneously features one of the best and one of the worst Bond girls. On one hand you have Elektra King, who is the perfect antagonist for Bond. Elektra King stands out so much in the series because the main villain in just about every Bond movie is a man. With a character like Bond who is such a womanizer, having a female as the main villain makes so much sense it's weird that it hasn't been done more often. Elektra King also stands out because the other female character in the film is Christmas Jones and she's brutal. You don't buy anything she says, and as soon as she shows up she drags the movie down. It's impossible to invest at all into the relationship between Bond and Christmas Jones, especially in light of Bond's fantastic dynamic with Elektra King, which is essentially the driving force of the entire story.
At the end of the day to find out why a movie works or doesn't work you have to strip away the excess and really look at the core of what the movie is about. The details of the plot aren't as important as the heart of the story. TWINE is about Bond falling for a woman who turns out to be the villain. That's it. That's why the best part of the movie is when he finally confronts Elektra and it forced to kill her. That was the true climax to the story. But then there's the dragged out climax afterwards with the whole submarine sequence with Bond foiling the missile scheme or whatever. On it's own the submarine sequence is fine, but having it take place after Bond has already killed Elektra makes the ending of the movie feel redundant, because the main story element we have emotionally invested ourselves in has already been resolved. The movie should have been structured such that Bond stops the submarine first, then finally confronts Elektra and is forced to kill her. That would make for a more emotionally satisfying ending.
True. They have certainly made me appreciate the Brosnan era, which I once took for granted.
{[] Brosnan's Bond was more fun. -{
How was Brosnan more fun? I really like Brosnan as Bond (not aways a popular thought) but I would call him anything but fun.
Here's how Brosnan's Bond is more fun: Brosnan's Bond is happy most of the time, and he clearly has fun with his gadgets. Brosnan's Bond usually enjoys life and makes the best of his situations. Connery's and Moore's Bonds are similar.
How was Brosnan more fun? I really like Brosnan as Bond (not aways a popular thought) but I would call him anything but fun.
Here's how Brosnan's Bond is more fun: Brosnan's Bond is happy most of the time, and he clearly has fun with his gadgets. Brosnan's Bond usually enjoys life and makes the best of his situations. Connery's and Moore's Bonds are similar.
1+
He's more in line with Connery and Moore.
1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
Here's how Brosnan's Bond is more fun: Brosnan's Bond is happy most of the time, and he clearly has fun with his gadgets. Brosnan's Bond usually enjoys life and makes the best of his situations. Connery's and Moore's Bonds are similar.
"I take pleasure in great beauty."
Yes, Brosnan's Bond seemed to genuinely enjoy things while Dan's seems steeped in angst a lot.
Here's how Brosnan's Bond is more fun: Brosnan's Bond is happy most of the time, and he clearly has fun with his gadgets. Brosnan's Bond usually enjoys life and makes the best of his situations. Connery's and Moore's Bonds are similar.
"I take pleasure in great beauty."
Yes, Brosnan's Bond seemed to genuinely enjoy things while Dan's seems steeped in angst a lot.
Even Fleming's Bond enjoyed some things in life. That's what Craig's Bond is missing for me. The whole "wearing a suit with disdain" thing is not like Fleming's Bond.
He didn't really, though the action-like scenes in the film Enigma, which he made right after TWINE were well done. The non-action scenes in TWINE were some of the best of Brosnan's, like the scenes with Bond and Elektra. I think he did the best of all the directors at getting a great performance out of Brosnan. I think he seems most human in this film and less like a shooting machine. I don't recall any scenes where he picks up a machine gun, which was all too much of GE and TND.
TWINE is good at showing a human side of Bond. Like, him having a broken arm shows he's not a superhuman.
I don't think the broken arm is such a good example of Bond not being superhuman since the arm pretty much heals immediately. But I like the film for showing a more human side of Bond, something I feel the Daniel Craig films have tried to do but not done successfully. I found Brosnan's more human Bond more believable in TWINE.
I thought Bond only damaged his rotator cuff tendons, not broke his arm. Still, even with that damage (I've had it) it takes a couple of weeks to recover, depending on the damage and thats with daily therapy exercises. However, it IS a Bond film, so we have to just accept it the same way that he runs through clouds of bullets and shrapnel and explosions and never gets his suit wrinkled.
Comments
At one time, TND was many people's favourite Bond film. Back in 1999 everyone I knew liked TND much more than GE and TWINE. I liked TWINE and didn't care for GE and TND at all. Looking at the ranking thread from 2005, TND was much higher than it was today. Daniel Craig changed the way many people think about Bond films.
Two problems?
1 after elektras death everything feels anti climactic
2 because elektra is so strong Christmas jones is more terrible than she would otherwise have been (eg think how much worse Stacey Sutton would have been with octopussy on the scene)
I joined AJB obviously to discuss the films but also to pick up from other fans their opinions that may change my own thoughts on certain films. TWINE is ranked quite low with me, time for a re-watch I think
Thanks for pointing this out. SF also borrowed a lot from Goldeneye. I'm glad others are noticing this blatant plagiarism of the "poorly written" Brosnan scripts.
Right on. All I remember (circa 2005) were Bond fans groaning about Bond going into "Terminator Mode." That's the fun part about AJB though…reading other fans' opinions.
True. They have certainly made me appreciation the Brosnan era, which I once took for granted.
1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
AJB007 Favorite Film Rankings
Pros and Cons Compendium (50 Years)
It has it's moments (I like the PTS and one or two other bits) but overall I found it to be a bit "meh".
Thanks, Wicker Man. {[]
I'm not meaning to change anyone's opinion of this or any other film, we all have our preferences, but just giving reaons why I don't dismiss it.
I try to believe this...
Ski chase to be very pedestrian and in fact boring, with the ending ( reminding me,
of TMWTGG) being slightly claustrophobic, and lack lustre.
That said it also has a few high points. -{ so for me it's a bit of a mixed bag.
I don't think Bond was in love with Elektra; Elektra was only just twenty-one. He sees her as the archetypal damsel in distress/damaged woman whose innocence has been destroyed, which as a macho character appeals to him.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
A little older- 28.
She was only supposed to be 28? Sophie Marceau was 33 and looked even older. She looked like an appropriate age for Bond.
At the end of the day to find out why a movie works or doesn't work you have to strip away the excess and really look at the core of what the movie is about. The details of the plot aren't as important as the heart of the story. TWINE is about Bond falling for a woman who turns out to be the villain. That's it. That's why the best part of the movie is when he finally confronts Elektra and it forced to kill her. That was the true climax to the story. But then there's the dragged out climax afterwards with the whole submarine sequence with Bond foiling the missile scheme or whatever. On it's own the submarine sequence is fine, but having it take place after Bond has already killed Elektra makes the ending of the movie feel redundant, because the main story element we have emotionally invested ourselves in has already been resolved. The movie should have been structured such that Bond stops the submarine first, then finally confronts Elektra and is forced to kill her. That would make for a more emotionally satisfying ending.
I'd say that Brosnan gave one of his most Human Performances in TWINE -{
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Here's how Brosnan's Bond is more fun: Brosnan's Bond is happy most of the time, and he clearly has fun with his gadgets. Brosnan's Bond usually enjoys life and makes the best of his situations. Connery's and Moore's Bonds are similar.
1+
He's more in line with Connery and Moore.
"I take pleasure in great beauty."
Yes, Brosnan's Bond seemed to genuinely enjoy things while Dan's seems steeped in angst a lot.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Even Fleming's Bond enjoyed some things in life. That's what Craig's Bond is missing for me. The whole "wearing a suit with disdain" thing is not like Fleming's Bond.
That's pretty much Bond to me.
I thought Bond only damaged his rotator cuff tendons, not broke his arm. Still, even with that damage (I've had it) it takes a couple of weeks to recover, depending on the damage and thats with daily therapy exercises. However, it IS a Bond film, so we have to just accept it the same way that he runs through clouds of bullets and shrapnel and explosions and never gets his suit wrinkled.