Why DAF feels different to other Bond films

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  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,062MI6 Agent
    Connery looked quite the part in YOLT, but in DAF he was hit & miss...
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • PeppermillPeppermill DelftPosts: 2,860MI6 Agent
    If Lazenby was in DAF, there would most likely have been more Tracy References.

    If Lazenby would have stayed on as Bond OHMSS would have ended with Bond and Tracy driving off after the wedding. DAF would have opened with the killing of Tracy as the PTS. At least this is what Peter Hunt says during the commentary and/or Inside OHMSS documentary.
    1. Ohmss 2. Frwl 3. Op 4. Tswlm 5. Tld 6. Ge 7. Yolt 8. Lald 9. Cr 10. Ltk 11. Dn 12. Gf 13. Qos 14. Mr 15. Tmwtgg 16. Fyeo 17. Twine 18. Sf 19. Tb 20 Tnd 21. Spectre 22 Daf 23. Avtak 24. Dad
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 37,866Chief of Staff
    chrisisall wrote:
    That's 'cause he was busy officially working on Superman. :007)

    ...where he didn't get a writing credit either ("Creative Consultant" was the vague compromise).
  • AlphaOmegaSinAlphaOmegaSin EnglandPosts: 10,926MI6 Agent
    Peppermill wrote:
    If Lazenby was in DAF, there would most likely have been more Tracy References.

    If Lazenby would have stayed on as Bond OHMSS would have ended with Bond and Tracy driving off after the wedding. DAF would have opened with the killing of Tracy as the PTS. At least this is what Peter Hunt says during the commentary and/or Inside OHMSS documentary.

    I've always liked that Idea -{

    And Connery wasn't really overweight in DAF, he looked similar in Body Weight as he did in DN. He just aged like the Rest of us.
    1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,062MI6 Agent
    Barbel wrote:
    chrisisall wrote:
    That's 'cause he was busy officially working on Superman. :007)

    ...where he didn't get a writing credit either ("Creative Consultant" was the vague compromise).
    Poor guy never caught a break. :#
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • Absolutely_CartAbsolutely_Cart NJ/NYC, United StatesPosts: 1,740MI6 Agent
    Gassy Man wrote:
    We all age, of course, but it's almost hard to believe this is the same guy, even ten years apart:


    dr_no.jpg



    diamonds_bond.jpg

    [The] Diamonds are Forever, [movie] for lack of a better term, also feels "middle aged" in tone, as though acknowledging that Bond is not the youthful guy of even four years earlier.

    Amen, brother. -{
  • MilleniumForceMilleniumForce LondonPosts: 1,214MI6 Agent
    I find Connery seems older in DAF than Moore in AVTAK! I mean, Moore had the charm, he knew how to treat a lady (just not Andrea.). But Connery? Evidence: "You stupid twit..." Moore wouldn't say that to Stacy, would he?!?!?!
    1.LTK 2.AVTAK 3.OP 4.FYEO 5.TND 6.LALD 7.GE 8.GF 9.TSWLM 10.SPECTRE 11.SF 12.MR 13.YOLT 14.TLD 15.CR (06) 16.TMWTGG 17.TB 18.FRWL 19.TWINE 20.OHMSS 21.DAF 22.DAD 23.QoS 24.NSNA 25.DN 26.CR (67)
  • AlphaOmegaSinAlphaOmegaSin EnglandPosts: 10,926MI6 Agent
    During the Elevator Scene in AVTAK, you can faintly hear Bond say 'Oh God!'
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  • Absolutely_CartAbsolutely_Cart NJ/NYC, United StatesPosts: 1,740MI6 Agent
    Connery at 38 looked worse than Moore at 58. What the ####?
  • BlackleiterBlackleiter Washington, DCPosts: 5,615MI6 Agent
    Connery at 38 looked worse than Moore at 58. What the ####?

    Only his hair! :#
    "Felix Leiter, a brother from Langley."
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,062MI6 Agent
    I thought he looked great in the 'making mud pies' sequence.
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • Silhouette ManSilhouette Man The last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,845MI6 Agent
    Peppermill wrote:
    If Lazenby was in DAF, there would most likely have been more Tracy References.

    If Lazenby would have stayed on as Bond OHMSS would have ended with Bond and Tracy driving off after the wedding. DAF would have opened with the killing of Tracy as the PTS. At least this is what Peter Hunt says during the commentary and/or Inside OHMSS documentary.

    I've always liked that Idea -{

    And Connery wasn't really overweight in DAF, he looked similar in Body Weight as he did in DN. He just aged like the Rest of us.

    Interestingly, they actually did carry over the OHMSS bride slaying in the 1990 BBC Radio adaptation of YOLT starring Michael Jayston as Bond if you give it a listen, so the idea was carried through in the correct continuity in another medium. I'm glad OHMSS ended the way that it did though and they did not chicken out (so to speak) and leave it for the PTS of DAF, but I suppose if they have that would have been a very different film from what we eventually got in 1971!
    "The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
  • MilleniumForceMilleniumForce LondonPosts: 1,214MI6 Agent
    Diamonds Are Forever shouldn't have been the way it was after OHMSS. We should have had a cold film, like LTK. It loses its effect when Bond moves straight to Tiffany in this film after Plenty.
    1.LTK 2.AVTAK 3.OP 4.FYEO 5.TND 6.LALD 7.GE 8.GF 9.TSWLM 10.SPECTRE 11.SF 12.MR 13.YOLT 14.TLD 15.CR (06) 16.TMWTGG 17.TB 18.FRWL 19.TWINE 20.OHMSS 21.DAF 22.DAD 23.QoS 24.NSNA 25.DN 26.CR (67)
  • DevilMayCare007DevilMayCare007 Posts: 196MI6 Agent
    Connery at 38 looked worse than Moore at 58. What the ####?
    At least Connery didn't need a face lift :))
    Top 10 Bond Films
    1. Thunderball 2. FRWL 3. Casino Royale 4. TLD 5. OHMSS 6. SkyFall 7. GF 8. TSWLM 9. GE 10. FYEO
  • The Wicker ManThe Wicker Man EnglandPosts: 434MI6 Agent
    For me DAF should have been filmed one of two ways.

    1. By sticking close to the novel. The book has a great plot which would have made for a more serious and coherent film. Some scenes from the novel are just crying out to be filmed and would work well. Also if the back story of characters, especially Tiffany, would have been explored more deeply it would have given the film a depth that it just doesn't have. Bond versus the Las Vegas mobsters works just fine, it doesn't need Blofeld.

    But the producers decided to bring Blofeld back, and why not. After the heartbreaking ending of OHMSS the set up was perfect for the ultimate Bond revenge film.

    2. By bringing back Blofeld the only way this film could have worked is if they had given it a more serious tone, (after all this is the man who had Bond's wife murdered). A jaded and defeated Bond, the only thing on his mind to avenge his wife, bruised and battered eventually finds Blofeld and gets his revenge. The ending the audience wanted and Blofeld deserved. Crowds in cinemas worldwide applaud and cheer.

    The film we ended up with doesn't seem to know what direction to take and in my opinion becomes a bit of a mess.
    Don't get me wrong if somebody wanted to watch DAF tonight I would watch it gladly. There is plenty to enjoy, but when its over I sometimes wonder what might have been or if it was a missed opportunity.
    1.ohmss 2.cr 3.frwl 4.ltk 5.gf 6.tswlm 7.sf 8.op 9.tld 10.dn 11.lald 12.tb 13.fyeo 14.ge 15.mr 16.yolt 17.tnd 18.avtak 19.sp 20.twine 21.qos 22.tmwtgg 23.daf 24.dad
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 37,866Chief of Staff
    We're looking at DAF from a 2015 viewpoint. Things were very different at the time it was made.

    OHMSS was regarded a lot less favourably than it is now:

    (1) It hadn't done as well at the box-office as previous Bonds. No Bond film has ever been a failure financially, but this was at the time the low point for the series. This was a serious concern for Eon and UA.

    (2) The casting of a new actor was perceived as one of the major reasons for this.

    (3) The more sombre tone of OHMSS was also a concern, as well as its relative length.

    (4) There was a feeling that James Bond, a huge symbol of the 1960s, had become out of date in the 1970s.

    The main thought behind the production of DAF was to "correct" these perceived issues. (1) and (2) could be solved at a stroke by re-hiring Sean Connery, whatever the expense. This was more UA's (David Picker's) decision than Eon's, who had reservations (Harry Saltzman).

    Eon made a deliberate decision to lighten the tone after OHMSS, which has been often seen as leading to the increasingly light tone of the Moore films which followed (in the 70s, anyway), and to consciously recreate as many aspects of Goldfinger as possible- Connery being the most visible, but also Guy Hamilton returning to direct, Shirley Bassey singing John Barry's song, and even considering rehiring Gert Frobe to play Goldfinger's twin.

    The whole idea was to produce a film which proved 007 was not out of date in the 1970s and significantly top the box-office returns of OHMSS, re-establishing the Bond series as a major (if not the major) franchise, a term which hadn't yet come into popular use.

    And it succeeded. After all is said and done, that's what counts. If DAF had flopped, there wouldn't have been much demand for further Bond films given their decreasing returns.

    I'd love to have seen a straight adaptation of the novel as suggested above. Hell, I'd still love to see it now. At the time, though, it probably wouldn't have worked. Part of the logic behind DAF was to ignore OHMSS as much as possible (Moneypenny's joke about a diamond ring, for example) and an avenging Bond was not what the producers were after.

    Connery's return wasn't for the money (he gave that away, as is well documented) and certainly not for art's sake. His career needed a lift at this point, and he needed to maximise his clout. In this, he succeeded. It isn't his best performance as Bond, but he does seem to be enjoying the proceedings a bit more than in YOLT and of course dominates the film.

    There's an argument to be made for critical points in the series- the difference between "just another film" and one that will make or break the validity of the whole thing. TSWLM is one, GE is another. DAF isn't quite on that level but does lean in that direction.

    And I'm going to say it again... John Barry rules. Period. His score is a joy and, pardon the pun, shines like a diamond.
  • Gassy ManGassy Man USAPosts: 2,972MI6 Agent
    Gassy Man wrote:
    We all age, of course, but it's almost hard to believe this is the same guy, even ten years apart:


    dr_no.jpg



    diamonds_bond.jpg

    [The] Diamonds are Forever, [movie] for lack of a better term, also feels "middle aged" in tone, as though acknowledging that Bond is not the youthful guy of even four years earlier.

    Amen, brother. -{
    Thanks!

    Something I just noticed in these two screencaps is one can see the difference in the lighting and cinematography. Dr. No is clearly more brightly lit, and Connery's skin tones are much warmer. He is not only darker in the Diamonds are Forever clip, but his skintone looks almost gray. Even allowing for differences in scenes -- indoor versus outdoor, night versus day, etc. -- these two screencaps rather accurately represent the differences in cinematography between 1960s and early to mid 1970s films.
  • Gassy ManGassy Man USAPosts: 2,972MI6 Agent
    Barbel wrote:
    We're looking at DAF from a 2015 viewpoint. Things were very different at the time it was made.

    OHMSS was regarded a lot less favourably than it is now:

    (1) It hadn't done as well at the box-office as previous Bonds. No Bond film has ever been a failure financially, but this was at the time the low point for the series. This was a serious concern for Eon and UA.

    (2) The casting of a new actor was perceived as one of the major reasons for this.

    (3) The more sombre tone of OHMSS was also a concern, as well as its relative length.

    (4) There was a feeling that James Bond, a huge symbol of the 1960s, had become out of date in the 1970s.

    The main thought behind the production of DAF was to "correct" these perceived issues. (1) and (2) could be solved at a stroke by re-hiring Sean Connery, whatever the expense. This was more UA's (David Picker's) decision than Eon's, who had reservations (Harry Saltzman).

    Eon made a deliberate decision to lighten the tone after OHMSS, which has been often seen as leading to the increasingly light tone of the Moore films which followed (in the 70s, anyway), and to consciously recreate as many aspects of Goldfinger as possible- Connery being the most visible, but also Guy Hamilton returning to direct, Shirley Bassey singing John Barry's song, and even considering rehiring Gert Frobe to play Goldfinger's twin.

    The whole idea was to produce a film which proved 007 was not out of date in the 1970s and significantly top the box-office returns of OHMSS, re-establishing the Bond series as a major (if not the major) franchise, a term which hadn't yet come into popular use.

    And it succeeded. After all is said and done, that's what counts. If DAF had flopped, there wouldn't have been much demand for further Bond films given their decreasing returns.

    I'd love to have seen a straight adaptation of the novel as suggested above. Hell, I'd still love to see it now. At the time, though, it probably wouldn't have worked. Part of the logic behind DAF was to ignore OHMSS as much as possible (Moneypenny's joke about a diamond ring, for example) and an avenging Bond was not what the producers were after.

    Connery's return wasn't for the money (he gave that away, as is well documented) and certainly not for art's sake. His career needed a lift at this point, and he needed to maximise his clout. In this, he succeeded. It isn't his best performance as Bond, but he does seem to be enjoying the proceedings a bit more than in YOLT and of course dominates the film.

    There's an argument to be made for critical points in the series- the difference between "just another film" and one that will make or break the validity of the whole thing. TSWLM is one, GE is another. DAF isn't quite on that level but does lean in that direction.

    And I'm going to say it again... John Barry rules. Period. His score is a joy and, pardon the pun, shines like a diamond.
    Good points, and I even recall as a child that when On Her Majesty's Secret Service was shown on TV here, a collective groan went out. As you say, it took years for the film to build the reputation it now has.
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,610MI6 Agent
    What if George Lazenby did DAF? How much lower do you think people would think of the film?
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  • Gassy ManGassy Man USAPosts: 2,972MI6 Agent
    I think it would have been a different film. Still lighter than the predecessor, but more serious overall. And I think George Lazenby would have come to the film with more confidence and bearing and settled into the role of James Bond.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,062MI6 Agent
    Gassy Man wrote:
    I think it would have been a different film. Still lighter than the predecessor, but more serious overall. And I think George Lazenby would have come to the film with more confidence and bearing and settled into the role of James Bond.
    That's another universe. In THIS one, he would have become cocky and played Bond like a colossal dick IMO. He made the right choice to leave as his growing ego started to piss on the 'establishment' and embrace individualist rejection. And I'm all FOR individuality, but one must colour Bond within the lines. :007)
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,610MI6 Agent
    chrisisall wrote:
    Gassy Man wrote:
    I think it would have been a different film. Still lighter than the predecessor, but more serious overall. And I think George Lazenby would have come to the film with more confidence and bearing and settled into the role of James Bond.
    That's another universe. In THIS one, he would have become cocky and played Bond like a colossal dick IMO.

    This kind of portrayal is why I can picture him in Connery's DAF.
    Visit my blog, Bond Suits
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,062MI6 Agent
    Matt S wrote:
    chrisisall wrote:
    Gassy Man wrote:
    I think it would have been a different film. Still lighter than the predecessor, but more serious overall. And I think George Lazenby would have come to the film with more confidence and bearing and settled into the role of James Bond.
    That's another universe. In THIS one, he would have become cocky and played Bond like a colossal dick IMO.

    This kind of portrayal is why I can picture him in Connery's DAF.
    Fair enough to say. :))
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • Gassy ManGassy Man USAPosts: 2,972MI6 Agent
    chrisisall wrote:
    Gassy Man wrote:
    I think it would have been a different film. Still lighter than the predecessor, but more serious overall. And I think George Lazenby would have come to the film with more confidence and bearing and settled into the role of James Bond.
    That's another universe. In THIS one, he would have become cocky and played Bond like a colossal dick IMO. He made the right choice to leave as his growing ego started to piss on the 'establishment' and embrace individualist rejection. And I'm all FOR individuality, but one must colour Bond within the lines. :007)
    I'm not sure that's true. He made Universal Soldier around the same time and seemed fine. Lazenby arguably was difficult personally, but I don't know that had to come through in his performance.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,062MI6 Agent
    Gassy Man wrote:
    He made Universal Soldier around the same time and seemed fine.
    ?:)
    That was a 1992 film... you mean a different title?
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,610MI6 Agent
    chrisisall wrote:
    Gassy Man wrote:
    He made Universal Soldier around the same time and seemed fine.
    ?:)
    That was a 1992 film... you mean a different title?

    It was actually 1971. I haven't seen that one, but I've seen Lazenby in some other films in the 70s and sometimes his cocky personality really did come out, like in The Man from Hong Kong, in 1975. But in 1972's Who Saw Her Die? he didn't act cocky at all, from what I can remember.
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  • AlphaOmegaSinAlphaOmegaSin EnglandPosts: 10,926MI6 Agent
    On Youtube, someone has made a Trailer for DAF with Lazenby -{
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  • Absolutely_CartAbsolutely_Cart NJ/NYC, United StatesPosts: 1,740MI6 Agent
    Truth be told, I find DAF Connery attractive. But in a fatherly way. When it comes to being a gentleman with expensive tastes, DAF era Connery is actually at its best. Dr. No era Connery was more of a young philanderer type.

    I joke about Connery's girth (which was really not big at all), but that's not the issue. I just find that Connery (especially older Connery) isn't really suited for the tone of this revenge oriented movie.
  • AlphaOmegaSinAlphaOmegaSin EnglandPosts: 10,926MI6 Agent
    Funnily enough, he looked more healthy in NSNA then in DAF.
    1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
  • Absolutely_CartAbsolutely_Cart NJ/NYC, United StatesPosts: 1,740MI6 Agent
    He did. Notice why I never make Connery in NSNA jokes.
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