If you've been fine with changing the race of both Felix Leiter and Moneypenny but Bond is where you draw the line, discussing why exactly that is would be an interesting conversation.
If you've been fine with changing the race of both Felix Leiter and Moneypenny but Bond is where you draw the line, discussing why exactly that is would be an interesting conversation.
If you've been fine with changing the race of both Felix Leiter and Moneypenny but Bond is where you draw the line, discussing why exactly that is would be an interesting conversation.
I don't find those comparable at all.
Right. That's what I'm interested in hearing about. If it's "not about race" and simply to do with "that's not how he was written", folks should be crying to the heavens over these other instances of casting across color lines. Felix Leiter is described very specifically in the novels as a Texan with straw-colored hair. Anyone having a problem casting a black actor as Bond should be equally vocal and against these other deviations from the source. But if those roles "weren't important" enough to care about their race being change, that makes one's opposition to a black actor as Bond a lot more troubling, or at least cause for introspection.
Felix Leiter is not comparable to James Bond. The character of Felix is a pleasant edition to the Bond adventures, however in no way is he integral to the James Bond films at large and as such, is very much a secondary character. This means that any drastic deviations from previous incarnations in books and in films is really inconsequential. It does not matter if he is Black or white or hispanic, because he is (Licence to Kill aside) a fringe character. Therefore a deviation from his actual character traits is relatively trivial in the broader context of the Bond films. The reason why this is trivial is because we still have the anchor of the Bond character to keep us in the universe that has been created throughout the films. Bond is still Bond, very much like he always has been, and so, the films still work as Bond adventures, despite the fact that surrounding characters might have changed. This is why I feel that Bond is another matter. Having said that I reiterate my previous statement - I am not adverse to a black actor taking on the role, but only if it's not done as a gimmick or a 'necessary' re-imaging.
really sad that this discussion always end up with the racist-poo.
It's ridiculous that one always has to say "I'm not a racist..." and then his statement X-(
"You see Mr.Bond, you can't kill my dreams...but my dreams can kill you.Time to face destiny" - "Time to face gravity"
really sad that this discussion always end up with the racist-poo.
It's ridiculous that one always has to say "I'm not a racist..." and then his statement X-(
Indeed! Ah well, interestng discussion all the same
I think it's not something a few grown men should be afraid of examining and exploring. If people want to stomp their feet and just say the same thing over and over without exploring why they feel that way, that's a dull conversation.
Revolver's reply is interesting, in regards to changing the race of "trivial", "non-integral" characters. Is the resistance to changing Bond's race while accepting changing secondary characters' races more to do with hero worship and identification? Part of the "women want him and men want to be him" kind of thing?
really sad that this discussion always end up with the racist-poo.
It's ridiculous that one always has to say "I'm not a racist..." and then his statement X-(
Because in today's PC world where everything you say can hurt someone's fragile feelings you have to say that. What if a Black literature character was casted as a white man. Alex Cross. There are so many other instances that if a white man was casted in a black role it'd be all over the news.
really sad that this discussion always end up with the racist-poo.
It's ridiculous that one always has to say "I'm not a racist..." and then his statement X-(
I'm more open to changing Leiter's race than Bond's because there's nothing that defines Leiter other than him being a CIA agent who helps Bond. Unlike Bond, Leiter has very few consistent traits. In Dr. No he's young and suave. In Goldfinger he's like Bond's friendly uncle. In Diamonds Are Forever he looks and acts like a man who hasn't left his desk for many years. We don't know anything about Leiter's history. If they can change the underlying character so much, I don't have a problem with them changing anything else. I just wouldn't make him a woman because then the name wouldn't be Felix. Felicia Leiter?
really sad that this discussion always end up with the racist-poo.
It's ridiculous that one always has to say "I'm not a racist..." and then his statement X-(
really sad that this discussion always end up with the racist-poo.
It's ridiculous that one always has to say "I'm not a racist..." and then his statement X-(
It's boring and it's pointless yet folks..can't...stop...protesting...the very thought of it...almost as if there was something primal inside them, rejecting the notion )
I'm not aware of an argument to win. I'm asking people to explore and articulate why it is they are vehemently opposed to the idea. That's a discussion topic, not an argument. It looks like an argument only because people keep stomping their feet and saying "NO! NO!" over and over without adding to the discussion.
I think it's not something a few grown men should be afraid of examining and exploring. If people want to stomp their feet and just say the same thing over and over without exploring why they feel that way, that's a dull conversation.
Revolver's reply is interesting, in regards to changing the race of "trivial", "non-integral" characters. Is the resistance to changing Bond's race while accepting changing secondary characters' races more to do with hero worship and identification? Part of the "women want him and men want to be him" kind of thing?
Well, hero worship is kind of the James Bond phenomenon summed up in one isn't it?
But let me explain what I meant. Throughout the film series, the Bond adventures have deviated into many different areas. Some have been gritty and tough, like the Fleming books. Some are light-hearted and full of comedy, some are over the top and outlandish, some even border into science fiction and parody. Many of the films are different from one another, with many of them focusing on different themes and elements, and throughout all of this I would say that the only thing that has really identified them as Bond films is the character of Bond himself. Even though in some incarnations he is more invincible and comedic, and in others more vulnerable and serious, the character of Bond has pretty much been consistent. This is the anchor in the whole series, and it is why it works, despite what changes to supporting characters occur or different plot devices that have been put around him. Now, if Bond changed genders, then automatically the character is gone, and therefore, the series. However, whilst I don't necessary think that this would be the case if Bond were to change ethnicity, I do think that it increases the chance of losing the identity of the Bond character, which is the essence of the series and what makes the films work. All in all, if Bond changes ethnicity, then so be it. If it works, then i'll be thrilled. But in some respects, I feel that it is perhaps a risk not worth taking.
On a side note, lets not start bickering everyone ) ) -{
" sweet and sour balls" I see what you did there.
Once spectre is out all the bullsh*t stories should stop ......
..... Until Bond 25, and all the same old stories will pop up
again by the tabloids.
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
Comments
I don't find those comparable at all.
Right. That's what I'm interested in hearing about. If it's "not about race" and simply to do with "that's not how he was written", folks should be crying to the heavens over these other instances of casting across color lines. Felix Leiter is described very specifically in the novels as a Texan with straw-colored hair. Anyone having a problem casting a black actor as Bond should be equally vocal and against these other deviations from the source. But if those roles "weren't important" enough to care about their race being change, that makes one's opposition to a black actor as Bond a lot more troubling, or at least cause for introspection.
It's ridiculous that one always has to say "I'm not a racist..." and then his statement X-(
Indeed! Ah well, interestng discussion all the same
Revolver's reply is interesting, in regards to changing the race of "trivial", "non-integral" characters. Is the resistance to changing Bond's race while accepting changing secondary characters' races more to do with hero worship and identification? Part of the "women want him and men want to be him" kind of thing?
Because in today's PC world where everything you say can hurt someone's fragile feelings you have to say that. What if a Black literature character was casted as a white man. Alex Cross. There are so many other instances that if a white man was casted in a black role it'd be all over the news.
http://imnotracistbut.tumblr.com/
1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
that's what I mean
But you do realize that site is nothing but examples of people being racist after saying "I'm not a racist, but..."?
You could say that about literally every conversation on these boards. Why the need to shut this particular conversation down?
Because it's pointless. People want a black bond for the sake of a black bond, and that is positive discrimination.
1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
great response !
Well, hero worship is kind of the James Bond phenomenon summed up in one isn't it?
But let me explain what I meant. Throughout the film series, the Bond adventures have deviated into many different areas. Some have been gritty and tough, like the Fleming books. Some are light-hearted and full of comedy, some are over the top and outlandish, some even border into science fiction and parody. Many of the films are different from one another, with many of them focusing on different themes and elements, and throughout all of this I would say that the only thing that has really identified them as Bond films is the character of Bond himself. Even though in some incarnations he is more invincible and comedic, and in others more vulnerable and serious, the character of Bond has pretty much been consistent. This is the anchor in the whole series, and it is why it works, despite what changes to supporting characters occur or different plot devices that have been put around him. Now, if Bond changed genders, then automatically the character is gone, and therefore, the series. However, whilst I don't necessary think that this would be the case if Bond were to change ethnicity, I do think that it increases the chance of losing the identity of the Bond character, which is the essence of the series and what makes the films work. All in all, if Bond changes ethnicity, then so be it. If it works, then i'll be thrilled. But in some respects, I feel that it is perhaps a risk not worth taking.
On a side note, lets not start bickering everyone
Plus half the stories are a load of sweet and sour balls.
Leaves a bad taste in the mouth.
Once spectre is out all the bullsh*t stories should stop ......
..... Until Bond 25, and all the same old stories will pop up
again by the tabloids.