Sir Frederick Gray - political allegiances

broadshoulderbroadshoulder Acton, London, UKPosts: 1,363MI6 Agent
in The James Bond Films
In TSWLM we are introduced to the Minister of Defence played by the excellent Geoffrey Keen. He seems to be a man who switches parties. First of all, labour - and then switches to the Tories. He seems to change more time then Winston Churchill - Tory - Liberal - back to Tory

1977 The Spy Who Loved Me - Labour (Callaghan government
1979 Moonraker - Tory (Thatcher government)
1981 - For Your Eyes Only (Thatcher government)
1983 - Octopussy (Thatcher government)
1985 - A View to a Kill (Thatcher government)
1987 - The Living Daylights (Thatcher government)

So is this guy an arch manipulator or just very good at staying in power
1. For Your Eyes Only 2. The Living Daylights 3 From Russia with Love 4. Casino Royale 5. OHMSS 6. Skyfall

Comments

  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    :)) A very good point Broadshoulder, although I feel in
    Bond's world the government is always Conservative. ;)
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • OrnithologistOrnithologist BerlinPosts: 585MI6 Agent
    I like your line of thought - but according to your list he'd only have switched once, before 1979. ?:)
    "I'm afraid I'm a complicated woman. "
    "- That is something to be afraid of."
  • broadshoulderbroadshoulder Acton, London, UKPosts: 1,363MI6 Agent
    Thunderpussy wrote:
    :)) A very good point Broadshoulder, although I feel in
    Bond's world the government is always Conservative. ;)

    Interesting when we get to the Brosnan years it reverses

    Goldeneye - (major government)
    Tomorrow Never Dies (Blair government)
    The World is not Enough - (Blair government)
    Die another Day (Blair government)
    1. For Your Eyes Only 2. The Living Daylights 3 From Russia with Love 4. Casino Royale 5. OHMSS 6. Skyfall
  • broadshoulderbroadshoulder Acton, London, UKPosts: 1,363MI6 Agent
    Ornithologist wrote:
    I like your line of thought - but according to your list he'd only have switched once, before 1979. ?:)

    Thats quite a jump from labour to Tory...
    1. For Your Eyes Only 2. The Living Daylights 3 From Russia with Love 4. Casino Royale 5. OHMSS 6. Skyfall
  • Thunderbird 2Thunderbird 2 East of Cardiff, Wales.Posts: 2,817MI6 Agent
    To say nothing of the Craig films!

    CR-06. (Blair Government)
    QoS. (Brown Government)
    SF. (Cameron / Clegg that's a government?)

    I keep wishing they would bring back a new Minister Of Defence. Hey, maybe Clair Dowar (Helen McCrory) could reappear? The character seemed VERY conservative! A windbag. :o
    This is Thunderbird 2, how can I be of assistance?
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    Blair was a Conservative. ;) so no change. :))
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Charmed & DangerousCharmed & Dangerous Posts: 7,358MI6 Agent
    There's a very long list of politicians who have "crossed the floor" (and in some cases, back again):

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_politicians_who_have_crossed_the_floor
    "How was your lamb?" "Skewered. One sympathises."
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    Politicians go where ever, the job prospects or money is better.
    If they mananage to do some good for the country, it's by happenstance
    and was never Intended ! ;) :))
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • David SchofieldDavid Schofield EnglandPosts: 1,528MI6 Agent
    Ah, the politics of AJBers....

    Back on the more important subject.... IIRC wasn't Keen cast at the last minute for the Scotland scene because Bernie Lee was too ill/pissed to travel?

    Chris Wood keeps the Minister of Defence out of his novel, wisely, in his tidying up of the meanderings of the movie.
  • broadshoulderbroadshoulder Acton, London, UKPosts: 1,363MI6 Agent
    Thunderpussy wrote:
    Politicians go where ever, the job prospects or money is better.
    If they mananage to do some good for the country, it's by happenstance
    and was never Intended ! ;) :))

    Oh you cynic, Thunderpussy :)) :)) :))

    But little things like elections don't happen in Bond films - but Bond does it for the free world. I wonder what Bonds motivation is?
    1. For Your Eyes Only 2. The Living Daylights 3 From Russia with Love 4. Casino Royale 5. OHMSS 6. Skyfall
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    In Bond's world it's always Britain of the 50s, the Queen is on her throne
    The Empire still stands, the government is Always Conservative, and England
    Is always on the side of the good guys. ;) ..... An!, the Books, a nice comfy
    Place to be. :))
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Shady TreeShady Tree London, UKPosts: 2,998MI6 Agent
    edited August 2015
    Thunderpussy wrote:
    :)) A very good point Broadshoulder, although I feel in
    Bond's world the government is always Conservative. ;)

    It certainly feels that way. When in one of the movies Frederick Gray makes it clear to M that he's not looking forward to briefing the PM on the latest crisis there's a definite sense that he'd be one of the male ministers infamously browbeaten and bullied by Thatcher.
    Critics and material I don't need. I haven't changed my act in 53 years.
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 37,865Chief of Staff
    Shady Tree wrote:
    there's a definite sense that he'd be one of the male ministers infamously browbeaten and bullied by Thatcher.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPzzgE34YQY
  • Shady TreeShady Tree London, UKPosts: 2,998MI6 Agent
    Barbel wrote:
    Shady Tree wrote:
    there's a definite sense that he'd be one of the male ministers infamously browbeaten and bullied by Thatcher.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPzzgE34YQY

    Indeed... one of "the vegetables"!
    Critics and material I don't need. I haven't changed my act in 53 years.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    Or ...... ;)
    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1OfPFgARsE0
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Shady TreeShady Tree London, UKPosts: 2,998MI6 Agent
    edited August 2015
    broadshoulder wrote:
    In TSWLM we are introduced to the Minister of Defence played by the excellent Geoffrey Keen. He seems to be a man who switches parties. First of all, labour - and then switches to the Tories.

    1977 The Spy Who Loved Me - Labour (Callaghan government)
    ...
    1983 - Octopussy (Thatcher government)
    ...

    JC: Crisis? What crisis?
    FG (Lab): It seems, Prime Minister, that one of our nuclear submarines is missing....

    FG (Con): Prime Minister, I'm pleased to report that Bond has successfully destroyed General Toro's top secret military aircraft by deflecting a heat-seeking missile into its hangar while making an escape in an Acrostar mini-jet.
    MT: Rejoice! Rejoice!
    Critics and material I don't need. I haven't changed my act in 53 years.
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 37,865Chief of Staff
    Thunderpussy wrote:
    Or ...... ;)
    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1OfPFgARsE0

    :)) :)) :))
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    I do remember Maggie and Dennis did say they watched a Bond film once,.... and Didn't
    like it. ;) May have been YOLT. I seem to remember something about it watching the
    Moonraker Premier on TV.
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • 002002 New ZealandPosts: 558MI6 Agent
    Thunderpussy wrote:
    I do remember Maggie and Dennis did say they watched a Bond film once,.... and Didn't
    like it. ;) May have been YOLT. I seem to remember something about it watching the
    Moonraker Premier on TV.

    What must they have thought of For Your Eyes Only...?! :))
  • Thunderbird 2Thunderbird 2 East of Cardiff, Wales.Posts: 2,817MI6 Agent
    edited August 2015
    Shady Tree wrote:
    It certainly feels that way. When in one of the movies Frederick Gray makes it clear to M that he's not looking forward to briefing the PM on the latest crisis there's a definite sense that he'd be one of the male ministers infamously browbeaten and bullied by Thatcher.

    You have reminded me of the moment we see Sir Frederick for the last time. - As he says his "Meeting with the PM this afternoon." and turns and leaves, watch Geoffrey Keen's face. As he walks out of the scene his expression dissolves from worried concern to stressed out panic. Wonderful moment of subtle visual comedy on the actors part. - Timothy Dalton as Bond wears a subtle "rather you than me Minister!" expression as he watches him go before M-Harg gives him his marching orders.

    It's definitely more memorable than Julian Fellows fussy and somewhat uptight character in TND, or Tim Pigott-Smith's stuffed shirt and somewhat apathetic character in QoS. Though both actors play the respective parts well. Damned politicians! :D
    This is Thunderbird 2, how can I be of assistance?
  • Shady TreeShady Tree London, UKPosts: 2,998MI6 Agent
    edited August 2015
    Thunderbird 2 wrote:
    Shady Tree wrote:
    It certainly feels that way. When in one of the movies Frederick Gray makes it clear to M that he's not looking forward to briefing the PM on the latest crisis there's a definite sense that he'd be one of the male ministers infamously browbeaten and bullied by Thatcher.

    You have reminded me of the moment we see Sir Frederick for the last time. - As he says his "Meeting with the PM this afternoon." and turns and leaves, watch Geoffrey Keen's face. As he walks out of the scene his expression dissolves from worried concern to stressed out panic. Wonderful moment of subtle visual comedy on the actors part. - Timothy Dalton as Bond wears a subtle "rather you than me Minister!" expression as he watches him go before M-Harg gives him his marching orders.

    It's definitely more memorable than Julian Fellows fussy and somewhat uptight character in TND, or Tim Pigott-Smith's stuffed shirt and somewhat apathetic character in QoS. Though both actors play the respective parts well. Damned politicians! :D

    Yes, thanks... that's the scene I was thinking of, from TLD. I'm sure that the scene was intended as a joke about Thatcher's reputation for hauling ministers over the coals, as I recall that the original audience were amused by it for that reason. Maybe Gray would have had his own Heseltine "I cannot remain!" moment by the time the franchise changed gear with LTK, or perhaps he'd have broken ranks like Howe (whose surprise denunciation of Thatcher in the Commons was mocked at the time as comparable to "being savaged by a dead sheep!")
    Critics and material I don't need. I haven't changed my act in 53 years.
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