The thing I don't get about SP's retcon is how both Le Chiffre and Mr White are claimed as employees of SPECTRE. In CR, Le Chiffre and Mr White don't appear to belong to the same organization. Mr White's organization makes the introduction of LeChiffre to Obanno, and they eliminate Le Chiffre when he loses Obanno's money because of the reputational damage he's caused to the quality of their referrals. The clear implication is that Le Chiffre is an independent player, handled by the organization as an agency but not a member of that organization himself.
The middle-aged Asian dude with the grey ponytail who's in CR, among the poker players on the high table, seems to be the same guy looking over the balcony, next to Bond, at SPECTRE's board meeting in the Italian villa. Perhaps it's part of the retcon that at the poker table he was one of Mr White's associates, an agent of SPECTRE/Quantum charged with keeping an eye on Le Chiffre as Le Chiffre attempted to recoup Obanno's money.
Critics and material I don't need. I haven't changed my act in 53 years.
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,746Chief of Staff
Le Chiffre and Mr White - same organisation, just a different branch (or octopus tentacle)...did they even know Blofeld was behind each other ?
And the "middle-aged Asian guy" isn't the same guy - this has been discussed before somewhere abouts -{
Le Chiffre and Mr White - same organisation, just a different branch (or octopus tentacle)...did they even know Blofeld was behind each other ?
And the "middle-aged Asian guy" isn't the same guy - this has been discussed before somewhere abouts -{
Ah, sorry... I missed that.
Whatever issues there may be with the retcon - however clunky it may seem - it gives rise to a brilliant main titles sequence which takes a cue from the OHMSS main titles in flashing back to iconic figures from previous movies... that alone justifies the retcon!
Critics and material I don't need. I haven't changed my act in 53 years.
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,746Chief of Staff
^ No problem -{
It can be difficult to keep up with everything discussed here )
I didn't like the idea of Silva being a part of Spectre either. I'm fine with Le Chiffre and Greene, but Silva seemed like he was doing it alone and what he was doing was personal.
I didn't like the idea of Silva being a part of Spectre either. I'm fine with Le Chiffre and Greene, but Silva seemed like he was doing it alone and what he was doing was personal.
Perhaps Blofeld was giving him the info he needed to do what he wanted..?..maybe Silva was unknowingly being manipulated by Blofeld ?
I'm more concerned, really, with the way in which SP's retcon imagery seems to imply a lowlier place for Greene in the rank order of Craig-era villains than even Mr White. True, Greene is namechecked by Blofeld alongside Le Chiffre and Silva, and his image appears on Q's laptop as well as theirs, but, crucially, his standing is diminished by an absence of his image from the main titles line-up of iconic blasts from the past; and his mugshot is missing from the makeshift gallery erected by Blofeld to taunt Bond inside the condemned MI6 headquarters at Vauxhall. It's almost as if QOS is being snubbed by these two notable exclusions for its principal villain; it's as though the franchise is acknowledging the troubled reputation of QOS in popular opinion, by sidelining Greene. Shame. I'm now a card-carrying QOS convert; a won-over, revisionist, QOS enthusiast... and Greene is my favourite reboot-era villain!
Critics and material I don't need. I haven't changed my act in 53 years.
I think, whilst it may be to make people forget about QoS, I think it may also be because Greene never really have an affect on Bond. He's just sort of........there.
Silva wasn't working for Blofeld. All that happened was his DNA was on the ring, so he most likely just shook hands with Sciarra after doing a gun or drug trade with him. Furthermore Quantum wasn't a subsection of Spectre, but rather Mr. White was a double agent working for Spectre. Silva didn't need Spectre to hack into Mi6 because Mi6 hacked itself, Q put the flash drive in like Silva was planning on. you don't need some elaborate scheme when the problem falls on carelessness, and if you think that's unrealistic, the NSA does stupid stuff like that all the time. I see Blofeld's "it was all me" as just showmanship and trying to get into BOnd's head. He wasn't behind Vesper or Mathis or M's death, those were just happy accidents, and being a sociopath Blofeld took credit for them. To his credit, he was lurking behind the curtains during all of this, just didn't do anything to lead to the things he claims.
Silva wasn't working for Blofeld. All that happened was his DNA was on the ring, so he most likely just shook hands with Sciarra after doing a gun or drug trade with him. Furthermore Quantum wasn't a subsection of Spectre, but rather Mr. White was a double agent working for Spectre. Silva didn't need Spectre to hack into Mi6 because Mi6 hacked itself, Q put the flash drive in like Silva was planning on. you don't need some elaborate scheme when the problem falls on carelessness, and if you think that's unrealistic, the NSA does stupid stuff like that all the time. I see Blofeld's "it was all me" as just showmanship and trying to get into BOnd's head. He wasn't behind Vesper or Mathis or M's death, those were just happy accidents, and being a sociopath Blofeld took credit for them. To his credit, he was lurking behind the curtains during all of this, just didn't do anything to lead to the things he claims.
For instance, Skyfall required an enormous suspension of disbelief to believe that Silva could pull off all the machinations of his scheme, some of which appeared to rely on completely random events. But not if Blofeld was really calling the shots with some earlier version of Nine Eyes, watching every move MI6 was making and giving Silva updates in real time. In the film, we're led to believe that Silva is essentially already doing this. But Spectre suggests -- and that's the problem, as it only just suggests -- that Blofeld is really the one behind it all.
.
Ugh.
Silva is a cyber terrorist. Right at the beginning of the film, the explosion within MI6 establishes Silva as a master hacker, a a cyber terrorist. So straight away we know he has breached MI6. And we know a little later that he is targeting M. So it has been something that he has planned out. Having been able to infiltrate MI6 electronically, it isn't a stretch to imagine that he also hacked in again, which gave him intel on where their new HQs are - underground. He knew he'd get caught eventually so, knowing their new digs, he booby trapped his laptop, knowing that Q would try gain access to it in their new HQs. Remember he was "damned good" operative, so he knows the inner workings of MI6, as well as being as great as Bond.
He knew every move M was making because he was a master hacker. We're led to believe Silva is doing it because he actually is doing it. Nine Eyes is a poorly executed concept that didn't have any feet during the events of Skyfall. And it didn't need to, because it makes sense - it's all in the film.
Film: Tomorrow Never Dies | Girl: Teresa di Vicenzo | Villain: Max Zorin | Car: Aston Martin Volante | Novel: You Only Live Twice | Bond: Sir Sean Connery
Silva wasn't working for Blofeld. All that happened was his DNA was on the ring, so he most likely just shook hands with Sciarra after doing a gun or drug trade with him. Furthermore Quantum wasn't a subsection of Spectre, but rather Mr. White was a double agent working for Spectre. Silva didn't need Spectre to hack into Mi6 because Mi6 hacked itself, Q put the flash drive in like Silva was planning on. you don't need some elaborate scheme when the problem falls on carelessness, and if you think that's unrealistic, the NSA does stupid stuff like that all the time. I see Blofeld's "it was all me" as just showmanship and trying to get into BOnd's head. He wasn't behind Vesper or Mathis or M's death, those were just happy accidents, and being a sociopath Blofeld took credit for them. To his credit, he was lurking behind the curtains during all of this, just didn't do anything to lead to the things he claims.
Thank you for putting some logic behind spectre
Actually, Sam Medes confirmed that it wasn't fingerprints or DNA on the ring. The ring was made from a rare metal from the meteorite in the lair, and ale Chiffre, Greene and Silva all had this metal traces found during their autopsy. So, it suggests all three have worn a Spectre ring at some point.
The thing about how Silva knew exactly what would happen has never bothered me though, because I have a different belief. He knew that, from his time working in MI6, that they would move to the bunker in times like in SF (presuming in this timeline it's the main backup). Therefore, he could easily plan a basic escape from this location. Everything else in his plan, such as the explosives, is all just one of the plans. I presumed he had several plans and things set up in case of different things, such as explosives planted in places he never used.
Actually, Sam Medes confirmed that it wasn't fingerprints or DNA on the ring. The ring was made from a rare metal from the meteorite in the lair, and ale Chiffre, Greene and Silva all had this metal traces found during their autopsy. So, it suggests all three have worn a Spectre ring at some point.
Or one of those Quantum pin badges (when Quantum is heavily implied to be the sibling or even parent syndicate to SPECTRE).
With the outrageous egos of both Silva and Blofeld, I don't get the impression that Silva would be a serving henchman but it would seem fairly plausible that Silva would deem the Quantum/SPECTRE group as benefactors to help with his hacking, funding and procurement of those ex-military mooks that turned up in the final battle, etc. However Blofeld sneeringly stating he's the author of all of Bond's pain could quite easily be BS to a certain extent, at least where Vesper Lynd is concerned (when narcissistic psychopaths like Blofeld are prone to sprouting out lies and half-truths to get their way and emotionally hurt victims).
Other plot holes/contrivances: that Tunisian SPECTRE complex more or less inexplicably blowing up entirely (on the record as the biggest pyrotechnic explosion in a film production) when only a few fuel pipes got burst could be down to the escaping Blofeld pressing a button and blowing up a big fuel bomb to cover his tracks and hoping to catch Bond in the blast (the place could've been a fuel bomb production factory for SPECTRE's terror operations, otherwise why would a control centre and server farms spontaneously combust after a brief fuel fire outside?).
'Alright guard, begin the unnecessarily slow moving dipping mechanism...'
Its interesting to see someone who likes the idea of Blofeld being behind everything. Every opinion I've heard or read since the film came out has been massively opposed to it. Particularly the notion of Silva's involvement with Spectre.
Its interesting to see someone who likes the idea of Blofeld being behind everything. Every opinion I've heard or read since the film came out has been massively opposed to it. Particularly the notion of Silva's involvement with Spectre.
I think Blofeld, at best, was indirectly involved with Craig Bond's earlier exploits (like Gettler being a loyal associate of his, etc, but Mr. White was senior to Blofeld at the time) and grew fully aware of his step brother by the time of Skyfall (and may have also contracted Silva for software incorporated into the Nine Eyes project). And Blofeld may have secretly thanked Bond for deposing and exposing his rivals who called themselves Quantum.
'Alright guard, begin the unnecessarily slow moving dipping mechanism...'
Same here. Its explain how Silva was able to have an island hideout and all those armed goons as well as a freaking helicopter! It was supplied to him by SPECTRE.
Also if anyone has played the game Blood Stone, the identity of the secret contact that a main character made a deal with makes sense if it actually is Blofeld. I do consider that game canon, taking place in between QoS and Skyfall.
Comments
The middle-aged Asian dude with the grey ponytail who's in CR, among the poker players on the high table, seems to be the same guy looking over the balcony, next to Bond, at SPECTRE's board meeting in the Italian villa. Perhaps it's part of the retcon that at the poker table he was one of Mr White's associates, an agent of SPECTRE/Quantum charged with keeping an eye on Le Chiffre as Le Chiffre attempted to recoup Obanno's money.
And the "middle-aged Asian guy" isn't the same guy - this has been discussed before somewhere abouts -{
Ah, sorry... I missed that.
Whatever issues there may be with the retcon - however clunky it may seem - it gives rise to a brilliant main titles sequence which takes a cue from the OHMSS main titles in flashing back to iconic figures from previous movies... that alone justifies the retcon!
It can be difficult to keep up with everything discussed here
Here you go: http://www.ajb007.co.uk/topic/47034/casino-royale-mr-fukutu-in-spectre/ Apparently it's his brother (Tom So in CR06, Clem So in SP).
Ah yes...thank you -{
I remember this stuff being discussed but I seldom remember in which thread ;%
Not so much creeping as stomping right up behind me
Perhaps Blofeld was giving him the info he needed to do what he wanted..?..maybe Silva was unknowingly being manipulated by Blofeld ?
I'm more concerned, really, with the way in which SP's retcon imagery seems to imply a lowlier place for Greene in the rank order of Craig-era villains than even Mr White. True, Greene is namechecked by Blofeld alongside Le Chiffre and Silva, and his image appears on Q's laptop as well as theirs, but, crucially, his standing is diminished by an absence of his image from the main titles line-up of iconic blasts from the past; and his mugshot is missing from the makeshift gallery erected by Blofeld to taunt Bond inside the condemned MI6 headquarters at Vauxhall. It's almost as if QOS is being snubbed by these two notable exclusions for its principal villain; it's as though the franchise is acknowledging the troubled reputation of QOS in popular opinion, by sidelining Greene. Shame. I'm now a card-carrying QOS convert; a won-over, revisionist, QOS enthusiast... and Greene is my favourite reboot-era villain!
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Definitely sounded like it.
Steady now :v
:007)
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Ugh.
Silva is a cyber terrorist. Right at the beginning of the film, the explosion within MI6 establishes Silva as a master hacker, a a cyber terrorist. So straight away we know he has breached MI6. And we know a little later that he is targeting M. So it has been something that he has planned out. Having been able to infiltrate MI6 electronically, it isn't a stretch to imagine that he also hacked in again, which gave him intel on where their new HQs are - underground. He knew he'd get caught eventually so, knowing their new digs, he booby trapped his laptop, knowing that Q would try gain access to it in their new HQs. Remember he was "damned good" operative, so he knows the inner workings of MI6, as well as being as great as Bond.
He knew every move M was making because he was a master hacker. We're led to believe Silva is doing it because he actually is doing it. Nine Eyes is a poorly executed concept that didn't have any feet during the events of Skyfall. And it didn't need to, because it makes sense - it's all in the film.
Actually, Sam Medes confirmed that it wasn't fingerprints or DNA on the ring. The ring was made from a rare metal from the meteorite in the lair, and ale Chiffre, Greene and Silva all had this metal traces found during their autopsy. So, it suggests all three have worn a Spectre ring at some point.
The thing about how Silva knew exactly what would happen has never bothered me though, because I have a different belief. He knew that, from his time working in MI6, that they would move to the bunker in times like in SF (presuming in this timeline it's the main backup). Therefore, he could easily plan a basic escape from this location. Everything else in his plan, such as the explosives, is all just one of the plans. I presumed he had several plans and things set up in case of different things, such as explosives planted in places he never used.
Or one of those Quantum pin badges (when Quantum is heavily implied to be the sibling or even parent syndicate to SPECTRE).
With the outrageous egos of both Silva and Blofeld, I don't get the impression that Silva would be a serving henchman but it would seem fairly plausible that Silva would deem the Quantum/SPECTRE group as benefactors to help with his hacking, funding and procurement of those ex-military mooks that turned up in the final battle, etc. However Blofeld sneeringly stating he's the author of all of Bond's pain could quite easily be BS to a certain extent, at least where Vesper Lynd is concerned (when narcissistic psychopaths like Blofeld are prone to sprouting out lies and half-truths to get their way and emotionally hurt victims).
Other plot holes/contrivances: that Tunisian SPECTRE complex more or less inexplicably blowing up entirely (on the record as the biggest pyrotechnic explosion in a film production) when only a few fuel pipes got burst could be down to the escaping Blofeld pressing a button and blowing up a big fuel bomb to cover his tracks and hoping to catch Bond in the blast (the place could've been a fuel bomb production factory for SPECTRE's terror operations, otherwise why would a control centre and server farms spontaneously combust after a brief fuel fire outside?).
I think Blofeld, at best, was indirectly involved with Craig Bond's earlier exploits (like Gettler being a loyal associate of his, etc, but Mr. White was senior to Blofeld at the time) and grew fully aware of his step brother by the time of Skyfall (and may have also contracted Silva for software incorporated into the Nine Eyes project). And Blofeld may have secretly thanked Bond for deposing and exposing his rivals who called themselves Quantum.
Mr. Big and Goldfinger worked for SMERSH in the books.