Yea, but Hiddleston isn't playing Bond in The Night Manager - so why would you expect him to be 'Bondish' in it ? ?:)
Roger Moore wasn't playing Bond in The Saint, Pierce Brosnan wasn't playing Bond in Remington Steele, and Daniel Craig wasn't playing Bond in Layer Cake. Yet they proved they could be Bondian before Bond.
So you are dismissing Hiddleston on one role ? Harsh !
If there is a symbol of an age coming to a close, it is James Bond.
This is so very true (and excellent post, by the way). But when I read this, it struck me because it was also true 54 years ago when the cinematic Bond was first introduced.
Hiddleson is not my first choice, but then neither was Dan & look how fine that turned out...
Absolutely {[]
Is there any word from the female contingent on Tom's appeal? Many ladies fancy Craig, despite the beating he's taken here and elsewhere for his looks.
I'm going to show The Night Manager to my girlfriend and get her opinion...
Chiming in on this one. I think part of Tom Hiddleston's appeal is similar to Benedict Cumberbatch in that he isn't the alpha male type and seems to be something more reserved. I guess the thinking woman's choice, which is why I'm not sure that they would pick Hiddleston. I think they're more likely to go with a man who's more traditionally alpha- although saying that, Bond does reflect whatever masculine qualities were popular in the day so they might well go for somebody who wouldn't be an obvious choice.
Yea, but Hiddleston isn't playing Bond in The Night Manager - so why would you expect him to be 'Bondish' in it ? ?:)
Roger Moore wasn't playing Bond in The Saint, Pierce Brosnan wasn't playing Bond in Remington Steele, and Daniel Craig wasn't playing Bond in Layer Cake. Yet they proved they could be Bondian before Bond.
So you are dismissing Hiddleston on one role ? Harsh !
I've seen him in a few other things and he hasn't proven himself to me yet. I only singled out The Night Manager because people are comparing him to Bond in it, which I don't see at all.
The Gillian Anderson as Bond thing has really gotten around today. I saw someone share it on Facebook today who thought it was a great idea because it would emasculate male Bond fans. He said that if she isn't the next Bond it should be Idris Elba because Bond should no longer be a white man. It just goes to show that most people who want something much different for the next Bond don't care about Bond at all. This guy's idea is to ruin the classic appeal of Bond. A woman can certainly be a 00 agent, but a woman would not be James Bond. Bond does not have to be white, but Idris Elba, as suave as he may be, would be nothing like any other James Bond based on anything I've seen him do. Plus he looks too old.
I don't believe that EON is looking to "neuter" James Bond. The question is not whether Hiddleston is the "alpha male" it's can he convincingly play the "alpha male". "Jonathan Pine" in the Night Manager is a much more reserved character than James Bond. A possible take on the Bond character that might be interesting would be to accentuate the duality of Bond; gentleman, appreciator of the finer things v the other side, government assassin/blunt instrument. To offset Hiddleston's gentlemanly refinement I would make his Bond especially ruthless and deadly but also show some of the regret that goes along with his great sense of duty....but I would steer clear of any examination of Bond's childhood,upbringing, etc; I think we've had enough of that and the right recasting and very a mild re-boot could help EON get out of that corner they have painted themselves into with Craig.
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
I don't believe that EON is looking to "neuter" James Bond. The question is not whether Hiddleston is the "alpha male" it's can he convincingly play the "alpha male". "Jonathan Pine" in the Night Manager is a much more reserved character than James Bond. A possible take on the Bond character that might be interesting would be to accentuate the duality of Bond; gentleman, appreciator of the finer things v the other side, government assassin/blunt instrument. To offset Hiddleston's gentlemanly refinement I would make his Bond especially ruthless and deadly but also show some of the regret that goes along with his great sense of duty....but I would steer clear of any examination of Bond's childhood,upbringing, etc; I think we've had enough of that and the right recasting and very a mild re-boot could help EON get out of that corner they have painted themselves into with Craig.
Agreed; I can see Tom being an appropriately brutal/cold killer when called upon to do so...and he's well poised to return Bond to the more cultured food, drink and elegance of the series' Sixties heyday. Not to retread anything, for the love of God, but to return to those character traits in the modern day.
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
The Gillian Anderson as Bond thing has really gotten around today. I saw someone share it on Facebook today who thought it was a great idea because it would emasculate male Bond fans. He said that if she isn't the next Bond it should be Idris Elba because Bond should no longer be a white man. It just goes to show that most people who want something much different for the next Bond don't care about Bond at all. This guy's idea is to ruin the classic appeal of Bond. A woman can certainly be a 00 agent, but a woman would not be James Bond. Bond does not have to be white, but Idris Elba, as suave as he may be, would be nothing like any other James Bond based on anything I've seen him do. Plus he looks too old.
I do care about Bond... and am for something new at the same time. It’s not about change as such. Not about making Bond female, transsexual or Native American. Such an interpretation misses the point. It’s about adding more variety, and about breaking conventions. I think Bond’s “misogynistic sexuality” mentioned by someone earlier is as much a thing of the past as is his smoking. Bond is also a cold war spy, and yet not many object to movies set in the 21st century. So, let me repeat – it’s not about change from something into something else, it’s about a constant evolution. We have seen it over the 24 movies, and it will continue, even if there is never a female Bond. Whether it works or not depends on the producers’ ideas and creativity. Would you rather have a bad male/straight Bond or a great female/gay one? In addition, we have already had one “hard” reboot that changed a lot. It has set a precedent, so another such reboot, perhaps even more radical, is only a question of time.
Having said all that, this time around I cannot think of a single favourite actor to be the next Bond. Apart Idris Elba of course, but I am not holding much hope.
We need those character traits, it's what puts bond apart from being a modern day generic action movie hero.
I think th has the right metal, he's bonkers and diabolical as loki. And he does have a wicked sense of humour, I saw him being interviewed and he comes across very well. He can also throw some serious shapes, check him out https://youtu.be/Fg8478v1osA
My 9 year old daughter is a huge fan which is why I know of his dancing!
I'm really not sure about a female James bond! What would sir Sean say about that?
It was either that.....or the priesthood
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,757Chief of Staff
Roger Moore wasn't playing Bond in The Saint, Pierce Brosnan wasn't playing Bond in Remington Steele, and Daniel Craig wasn't playing Bond in Layer Cake. Yet they proved they could be Bondian before Bond.
So you are dismissing Hiddleston on one role ? Harsh !
I've seen him in a few other things and he hasn't proven himself to me yet. I only singled out The Night Manager because people are comparing him to Bond in it, which I don't see at all.
Fair comment -{
I've seen him quite a bit in other roles too...none have been even remotely close to a 'Bond figure' - I guess The Night Manager is as close as he's been ?
I think people have only compared him this time because DC is stepping down as there is a 'clamour' to see whom the front runners are...I guess TH got the Bond gig on the back of The Night Manager though....
Yes he does, if we're sticking roughly to the literary character. He also has to be British. He also has to be male. Other character traits are less fixed (hair colour can change for instance, either by design for fashion or 'disguise' reasons) and if it wasn't for us knowing that Craig isn't the tallest of actors, this too wouldn't be an issue.
Now, accepting that a British character has been played by a Scot, an Australian an Irishman, a Welshman and a pair of Englishmen, I accept that nationality is not a barrier to anyone portraying James Bond. However, all the actors so far have played him as a British agent - yes, Connery, Lazenby and Brosnan didn't hide their natural accents, but they did tone them down to the point of not getting in the way. Dalton on the other hand with his classical training, was overly British, using estuary English which was reminiscent of how actors delivered in the 1940's and 1950's - his Welsh accent was non-existent.
Now accepting that non-British actors can play Bond, but they do so by complying to the essence of the literary character, I suppose you could have non-Caucasian actors taking the role too, but they may have to take make-up steps to ensure they accurately portray Bond. Would this be acceptable in the 21st century? I doubt it, but only down to political correctness.
Yes he does, if we're sticking roughly to the literary character. He also has to be British. He also has to be male. Other character traits are less fixed (hair colour can change for instance, either by design for fashion or 'disguise' reasons) and if it wasn't for us knowing that Craig isn't the tallest of actors, this too wouldn't be an issue.
Now, accepting that a British character has been played by a Scot, an Australian an Irishman, a Welshman and a pair of Englishmen, I accept that nationality is not a barrier to anyone portraying James Bond. However, all the actors so far have played him as a British agent - yes, Connery, Lazenby and Brosnan didn't hide their natural accents, but they did tone them down to the point of not getting in the way. Dalton on the other hand with his classical training, was overly British, using estuary English which was reminiscent of how actors delivered in the 1940's and 1950's - his Welsh accent was non-existent.
Now accepting that non-British actors can play Bond, but they do so by complying to the essence of the literary character, I suppose you could have non-Caucasian actors taking the role too, but they may have to take make-up steps to ensure they accurately portray Bond. Would this be acceptable in the 21st century? I doubt it, but only down to political correctness.
Whats all this talk about Bond becoming public domain soon? Does this mean the copyrights expire soon? I guess i'm missing a whole chunk of information here!
I've seen him in a few other things and he hasn't proven himself to me yet. I only singled out The Night Manager because people are comparing him to Bond in it, which I don't see at all.
Fair comment -{
I've seen him quite a bit in other roles too...none have been even remotely close to a 'Bond figure' - I guess The Night Manager is as close as he's been ?
I think people have only compared him this time because DC is stepping down as there is a 'clamour' to see whom the front runners are...I guess TH got the Bond gig on the back of The Night Manager though....
you seem confident he has Sir Miles, are you the guy who put the massive bet on? )
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,757Chief of Staff
I've seen him in a few other things and he hasn't proven himself to me yet. I only singled out The Night Manager because people are comparing him to Bond in it, which I don't see at all.
Fair comment -{
I've seen him quite a bit in other roles too...none have been even remotely close to a 'Bond figure' - I guess The Night Manager is as close as he's been ?
I think people have only compared him this time because DC is stepping down as there is a 'clamour' to see whom the front runners are...I guess TH got the Bond gig on the back of The Night Manager though....
you seem confident he has Sir Miles, are you the guy who put the massive bet on? )
I don't believe that EON is looking to "neuter" James Bond. The question is not whether Hiddleston is the "alpha male" it's can he convincingly play the "alpha male". "Jonathan Pine" in the Night Manager is a much more reserved character than James Bond. A possible take on the Bond character that might be interesting would be to accentuate the duality of Bond; gentleman, appreciator of the finer things v the other side, government assassin/blunt instrument. To offset Hiddleston's gentlemanly refinement I would make his Bond especially ruthless and deadly but also show some of the regret that goes along with his great sense of duty....but I would steer clear of any examination of Bond's childhood,upbringing, etc; I think we've had enough of that and the right recasting and very a mild re-boot could help EON get out of that corner they have painted themselves into with Craig.
Agreed; I can see Tom being an appropriately brutal/cold killer when called upon to do so...and he's well poised to return Bond to the more cultured food, drink and elegance of the series' Sixties heyday. Not to retread anything, for the love of God, but to return to those character traits in the modern day.
{[]
Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
I bumped into Barbara Broccoli the the other day in Netto. Apparently she doesn't shop there as a rule but she explained that Lidl was closed for redecorating. I didn't realise it was her until she asked me to reach up & get a tin of beans & sausage from the top shelf. I thought I'd chance my arm & ask her about the rumours of DCs demise as Bond. She was a little reticent but when I followed it up by explaining that the groundswell of support on AJB appears to be for Tom Hiddleston to replace him she just gave a wry wink. I did catch up with her a few aisles later where she was dropping a multipack of toffos into the trolley & without prompting she said she would swing by AJB to see for herself before making any decisions.
Good job it was you and not Daniel as he would never have been able to reach ) I could not resist the bait
Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
A possible take on the Bond character that might be interesting would be to accentuate the duality of Bond; gentleman, appreciator of the finer things v the other side, government assassin/blunt instrument. To offset Hiddleston's gentlemanly refinement I would make his Bond especially ruthless and deadly but also show some of the regret that goes along with his great sense of duty....but I would steer clear of any examination of Bond's childhood,upbringing, etc; I think we've had enough of that and the right recasting and very a mild re-boot could help EON get out of that corner they have painted themselves into with Craig.
Couldn't agree more. Regardless of who is going to play Bond next I would definitely like to see more explorations in to this duality side of the character and the inner turmoil that goes with the ruthless requirements of his job. A hedonistic gentleman by day but a cold-blooded killer by night.
I don't know why everyone is saying the female version would be named "Jane", as the female version is obviously "Jamie". I know many females named "Jamie" whilst the few "Janes" I know are older than my mother.
I don't know why everyone is saying the female version would be named "Jane", as the female version is obviously "Jamie". I know many females named "Jamie" whilst the few "Janes" I know are older than my mother.
Yeah I knew Jamie was one. Was just not sure about James itself.
But either way, if not James, then the character wouldn't be James Bond anymore. The series would have to be known as the Bond series, rather than the James Bond series.
Either way, as I've mentioned, I think the idea is just plain stupid.
Regarding Hiddleston, I think he lacks the physicality to play Bond. Some have pointed to the fight scene in The Night Manager as evidencing the required physicality, but the problem with that scene is that Tom Hollander who played Corkie is very short (5'5"). His lack of height was accentuated by the height of the three actors he appeared around, Laurie, Hiddleston, and Debecki, who were all well over six feet.
As Hiddleston's character was beating Corkie to death I could only think, pick on somebody your own size!
Anyway, intense physical scenes are de rigueur in spy films nowadays and I don't see Hiddleston matching up to Craig, Cruise, or Damon in that department.
Comments
So you are dismissing Hiddleston on one role ? Harsh !
The Saint did it for Roger.
Remington Steele for Pierce.
Layer Cake for Daniel.
taken in to account the body of their work.
This is so very true (and excellent post, by the way). But when I read this, it struck me because it was also true 54 years ago when the cinematic Bond was first introduced.
No doubt you would!!!! X-(
Chiming in on this one. I think part of Tom Hiddleston's appeal is similar to Benedict Cumberbatch in that he isn't the alpha male type and seems to be something more reserved. I guess the thinking woman's choice, which is why I'm not sure that they would pick Hiddleston. I think they're more likely to go with a man who's more traditionally alpha- although saying that, Bond does reflect whatever masculine qualities were popular in the day so they might well go for somebody who wouldn't be an obvious choice.
I've seen him in a few other things and he hasn't proven himself to me yet. I only singled out The Night Manager because people are comparing him to Bond in it, which I don't see at all.
Agreed; I can see Tom being an appropriately brutal/cold killer when called upon to do so...and he's well poised to return Bond to the more cultured food, drink and elegance of the series' Sixties heyday. Not to retread anything, for the love of God, but to return to those character traits in the modern day.
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
I do care about Bond... and am for something new at the same time. It’s not about change as such. Not about making Bond female, transsexual or Native American. Such an interpretation misses the point. It’s about adding more variety, and about breaking conventions. I think Bond’s “misogynistic sexuality” mentioned by someone earlier is as much a thing of the past as is his smoking. Bond is also a cold war spy, and yet not many object to movies set in the 21st century. So, let me repeat – it’s not about change from something into something else, it’s about a constant evolution. We have seen it over the 24 movies, and it will continue, even if there is never a female Bond. Whether it works or not depends on the producers’ ideas and creativity. Would you rather have a bad male/straight Bond or a great female/gay one? In addition, we have already had one “hard” reboot that changed a lot. It has set a precedent, so another such reboot, perhaps even more radical, is only a question of time.
Having said all that, this time around I cannot think of a single favourite actor to be the next Bond. Apart Idris Elba of course, but I am not holding much hope.
I think th has the right metal, he's bonkers and diabolical as loki. And he does have a wicked sense of humour, I saw him being interviewed and he comes across very well. He can also throw some serious shapes, check him out https://youtu.be/Fg8478v1osA
My 9 year old daughter is a huge fan which is why I know of his dancing!
I'm really not sure about a female James bond! What would sir Sean say about that?
Fair comment -{
I've seen him quite a bit in other roles too...none have been even remotely close to a 'Bond figure' - I guess The Night Manager is as close as he's been ?
I think people have only compared him this time because DC is stepping down as there is a 'clamour' to see whom the front runners are...I guess TH got the Bond gig on the back of The Night Manager though....
Yes he does, if we're sticking roughly to the literary character. He also has to be British. He also has to be male. Other character traits are less fixed (hair colour can change for instance, either by design for fashion or 'disguise' reasons) and if it wasn't for us knowing that Craig isn't the tallest of actors, this too wouldn't be an issue.
Now, accepting that a British character has been played by a Scot, an Australian an Irishman, a Welshman and a pair of Englishmen, I accept that nationality is not a barrier to anyone portraying James Bond. However, all the actors so far have played him as a British agent - yes, Connery, Lazenby and Brosnan didn't hide their natural accents, but they did tone them down to the point of not getting in the way. Dalton on the other hand with his classical training, was overly British, using estuary English which was reminiscent of how actors delivered in the 1940's and 1950's - his Welsh accent was non-existent.
Now accepting that non-British actors can play Bond, but they do so by complying to the essence of the literary character, I suppose you could have non-Caucasian actors taking the role too, but they may have to take make-up steps to ensure they accurately portray Bond. Would this be acceptable in the 21st century? I doubt it, but only down to political correctness.
Othello anyone?
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No...but I should have
{[]
Good job it was you and not Daniel as he would never have been able to reach
Drat, they've rumbled us Mike... I mean Miles!
Couldn't agree more. Regardless of who is going to play Bond next I would definitely like to see more explorations in to this duality side of the character and the inner turmoil that goes with the ruthless requirements of his job. A hedonistic gentleman by day but a cold-blooded killer by night.
1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
I don't know why everyone is saying the female version would be named "Jane", as the female version is obviously "Jamie". I know many females named "Jamie" whilst the few "Janes" I know are older than my mother.
Yeah I knew Jamie was one. Was just not sure about James itself.
But either way, if not James, then the character wouldn't be James Bond anymore. The series would have to be known as the Bond series, rather than the James Bond series.
Either way, as I've mentioned, I think the idea is just plain stupid.
1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
As Hiddleston's character was beating Corkie to death I could only think, pick on somebody your own size!
Anyway, intense physical scenes are de rigueur in spy films nowadays and I don't see Hiddleston matching up to Craig, Cruise, or Damon in that department.