How did M know about Marco Sciara?

minigeff · March 2016

Well, as the title asks, how did M know about Marco Sciara?

Reason I make a point of this stems from me pondering whilst on the throne in the west wing this morning about the scene where Bond reveals the clip to moneypenny.

M gives Bond the name of Marco Sciara and tells Bond to find him and kill him, and don't miss the funeral. So if M knew of Sciara, and knew enough about him to order Bond to kill the guy, she must have known Sciara's importance and his connection to Quantum and Spectre. She must have been sure about that to order the hit, so how did she know but no one else, not moneypenny, tanner or anyone else in MI6?

Was Sciara closely linked to Silva, hence M knowing about him?

Just puzzled how she knew but no one else did.

chrisisall · March 2016

minigeff wrote:

She must have been sure about that to order the hit, so how did she know but no one else, not moneypenny, tanner or anyone else in MI6?

She found out just before her death, and prepared the video for Bond in case Silva was successful & she didn't get a chance to attend to it herself.
Which, well, you know...

minigeff · March 2016

chrisisall wrote:

minigeff wrote:

She must have been sure about that to order the hit, so how did she know but no one else, not moneypenny, tanner or anyone else in MI6?

She found out just before her death, and prepared the video for Bond in case Silva was successful & she didn't get a chance to attend to it herself.
Which, well, you know...

so why not tell bond on the way to Skyfall lodge?

chrisisall · March 2016

minigeff wrote:

chrisisall wrote:

minigeff wrote:

She must have been sure about that to order the hit, so how did she know but no one else, not moneypenny, tanner or anyone else in MI6?

She found out just before her death, and prepared the video for Bond in case Silva was successful & she didn't get a chance to attend to it herself.
Which, well, you know...

so why not tell bond on the way to Skyfall lodge?

She was more concerned about the ejector seat.

minigeff · March 2016

bloody hell, talk about getting your priorities mixed up!

MarcAngeDraco · March 2016

Yeah I was wondering why no one knew about it. Of course, if C had surveillance on everything, and SPECTRE was behind her death, would he have had access to her files? Why not have told Mallory or Tanner? Or Bond in the car? Because the writing of SPECTRE is not good enough, and this was an after thought. And, clearly Bond hasn't learned all that much since QOS when he was chastised for the different crimes he was framed for, but never once said "no, I didn't kill the special branch agent" / "No, I didn't kill Mathis" / "Greene has infiltrated the police force". All Bond needed to say was that "M told me to track down Marco Sciarra". And on top of that - why would M send Bond a secret tape, knowing how much grief Bond has put her through - wouldn't she want him to go through the proper channels for once?

The development of the Craig era is a mess.

chrisisall · March 2016

MarcAngeDraco wrote:

The development of the Craig era is a mess.

We can always watch Brosnan. -{

HalfMonk HalfHitman · March 2016

MarcAngeDraco wrote:

Yeah I was wondering why no one knew about it. Of course, if C had surveillance on everything, and SPECTRE was behind her death, would he have had access to her files? Why not have told Mallory or Tanner? Or Bond in the car? Because the writing of SPECTRE is not good enough, and this was an after thought.

+1

It's really junky storytelling. There's no secret logic the writers withheld from us. SPECTRE is undercooked in parts and overcooked in others, leaving us with an octopus-shaped "Welcome Home" cake for Blofeld that is burned on the outside and runny in the middle.

welshboy78 · March 2016

I suppose the tape brings a slight element of mystery and fun to it!

Would of thought a letter would have been easier!!

chrisisall · March 2016

HalfMonk HalfHitman wrote:

MarcAngeDraco wrote:

Yeah I was wondering why no one knew about it. Of course, if C had surveillance on everything, and SPECTRE was behind her death, would he have had access to her files? Why not have told Mallory or Tanner? Or Bond in the car? Because the writing of SPECTRE is not good enough, and this was an after thought.

+1

It's really junky storytelling. There's no secret logic the writers withheld from us. SPECTRE is undercooked in parts and overcooked in others, leaving us with an octopus-shaped "Welcome Home" cake for Blofeld that is burned on the outside and runny in the middle.

Just before M left with Bond in SF she received a phone call from a Belgian operative that confirmed that Sciara was linked directly to Quantum and then heard her phone suddenly disconnect. She decided she needed more positive intel before acting on it, but realized she might not come back from this venture with OO7, so she recorded the the message quickly and posted it to him just in case.
Lucky for us or a Mexican stadium full of innocents would have been killed...

HalfMonk HalfHitman · March 2016

Is this offscreen logic provided by the TWINE Twins?

)

So if she needed more positive intel before telling Bond, she most certainly never got it before heading out to die at Skyfall. That tape got sent "in event of her death," so that's lucky.

chrisisall · March 2016

HalfMonk HalfHitman wrote:

Is this offscreen logic provided by the TWINE Twins? )

So if she needed more positive intel before telling Bond, she most certainly never got it before heading out to die at Skyfall. That tape got sent "in event of her death," so that's lucky.

Please do not make fun of my carefully crafted fanwank.

)

MarcAngeDraco · March 2016

chrisisall wrote:

MarcAngeDraco wrote:

The development of the Craig era is a mess.

We can always watch Brosnan. -{

Which I do... At least the first three.

-{

chrisisall · March 2016

MarcAngeDraco wrote:

chrisisall wrote:

MarcAngeDraco wrote:

The development of the Craig era is a mess.

We can always watch Brosnan. -{

Which I do... At least the first three. -{

{[]

Mr Martini · March 2016

Personally I think it was just a way to have Judy Dench in another Bond movie. They love her so much they just can't let go. What next? Bond having dreams about her? Maybe her Ghost will appear in a future installment? Or maybe she faked her death and is Blofelds right hand women?

IanT · March 2016

I have to say that whilst watching Spectre I did begin to wonder whether M (JD) was somehow linked to Spectre and maybe she was trying to atone for her sins from beyond the grave. The presence of her picture in the MI6 cells got me wondering.

zaphod99 · March 2016

HalfMonk HalfHitman wrote:

MarcAngeDraco wrote:

Yeah I was wondering why no one knew about it. Of course, if C had surveillance on everything, and SPECTRE was behind her death, would he have had access to her files? Why not have told Mallory or Tanner? Or Bond in the car? Because the writing of SPECTRE is not good enough, and this was an after thought.

+1

It's really junky storytelling. There's no secret logic the writers withheld from us. SPECTRE is undercooked in parts and overcooked in others, leaving us with an octopus-shaped "Welcome Home" cake for Blofeld that is burned on the outside and runny in the middle.

+2 it's a fundamental weakness that this just does not hold together. She had time to tell him during the mawkish mommy dearest death scene but the writers had not conceived or written it yet. It's sloppy,
and as it's the central premise it's unforgivable.

armenianmovieman · March 2016

minigeff wrote:

chrisisall wrote:

minigeff wrote:

She must have been sure about that to order the hit, so how did she know but no one else, not moneypenny, tanner or anyone else in MI6?

She found out just before her death, and prepared the video for Bond in case Silva was successful & she didn't get a chance to attend to it herself.
Which, well, you know...

so why not tell bond on the way to Skyfall lodge?

If your son is risking his life doing you a favor, you don't ask him for another favor that also puts his life on the line before the first one is done. lol

Thunderbird 2 · March 2016

zaphod99 wrote:

HalfMonk HalfHitman wrote:

MarcAngeDraco wrote:

Yeah I was wondering why no one knew about it. Of course, if C had surveillance on everything, and SPECTRE was behind her death, would he have had access to her files? Why not have told Mallory or Tanner? Or Bond in the car? Because the writing of SPECTRE is not good enough, and this was an after thought.

+1

It's really junky storytelling. There's no secret logic the writers withheld from us. SPECTRE is undercooked in parts and overcooked in others, leaving us with an octopus-shaped "Welcome Home" cake for Blofeld that is burned on the outside and runny in the middle.

+2 it's a fundamental weakness that this just does not hold together. She had time to tell him during the mawkish mommy dearest death scene but the writers had not conceived or written it yet. It's sloppy,
and as it's the central premise it's unforgivable.

Thunderbird Too.

I enjoyed Spectre in spite if its short comings, as I expected them. Only the Aston DB10 was an outright disappointment.
However, the writers and director have thrown things into SF and SP not because they add to the story, not because they make sense, but because its a "Hey, wouldn't this look cool!" Moment. In some cases creating careless train wrecks in continuity. (Computer drive, Patrice's painting victim, Goldfinger's DB5, the endgame at Skyfall. Blofeld's Dr No entrance, Mr White's exposition, the LOTR reference.)

M-Manf's message from beyond the grave is another on this very long list. Best course of action is switch off the logical part of your brain until the writers and director are changed again!

MarcAngeDraco · March 2016

If you're referring to the DB5 being the same one from GF, I should probably clarify that in terms of continuity and development - that's not what I meant. I'm referring to the fact that the development of Craig's era in general doesn't work in isolation to the series, in that he goes from a (redundant) rookie agent to ageing agent in the span of three films, he's back in action, to only go rogue again, supposedly fall in love again (wasn't the point of Vesper to give back story to why Bond is a womaniser?) and then leave the service. In between Vesper and Madeleine there are only four girls - Fields, Severine, Greek girl and Lucia. So much womanising... But I digress. Not to mention that the same mistakes Bond makes in QOS are repeated in SP, when he's supposed to be the Bond we all know and love. This frustrates me because it tries to characterise Bond, when we didn't want it/need it and when we get it, it's half assed. The only time it's worked in the Craig era is in SF. It feels positively Fleming. In terms of Bond having the DB5 from Goldfinger, that doesn't bother me. It's the 50th anniversary film, it's Bond's car (the CR retcon job is silly anyway, and that can be easily justified that he had it modified in between the QOS and SF mission), but I'm curious to know what your issues are with the computer drive, Patrice's painting victim, Mr White, Blofeld's entrance, etc.

Ornithologist · March 2016

Thunderbird 2 wrote:

the LOTR reference.)

Say what now?

Barbel · March 2016

Ornithologist wrote:

Thunderbird 2 wrote:

the LOTR reference.)

Say what now?

Thunderbird 2 · March 2016

Well done Barbel!

The Lord Of The Rings - The One Ring. To misquote Gandalf,

"One ring to rule the Craig films, One ring to find SPECTRE members, One ring to bring their characters all together in blatent retcon, and in the darkness of naff continuity, bind them!"

Thunderpussy · March 2016

)

) " Moore-dor"

Thunderbird 2 · March 2016

MarcAngeDraco wrote:

I'm curious to know what your issues are with the computer drive, Patrice's painting victim, Mr White, Blofeld's entrance, etc.

Computer drive - blatent macguffin. Silva could have just hacked the data, as he does M-Manf's files later on. The Computer drive is a weak excuse for the chase sequence. Good chase sequence, but weak reasoning. Why not a deadly bacterium, nuclear material sample, or perhaps powerful but toxic fuel vial? - Alongside the hacked data would have proved more effective in the chase scenes, and upped the stakes.

Patrice's Painting Victim. - Padding! Who was he, did he have any relevance to the story? If yes what was it? (We know he didn't because there is no reference to it later on at all, when Silva explains everything.) Its more padding to drag out the scene where Bond kills Patrice. Yet a few lines of dialogue could have made good use of the scene in its entirety, including Seravine's involvement.

Mr White - Jesper Christensen does a tour de force performance in the log cabin. - A scene that would otherwise be dire with exposition overload. The fact he and Mr Craig make it work so well is a testimonial to their acting skills. However, its all done in bits and pieces. He does not give any direct information, but more implies that Quantum became Spectre. Its a critical scene in the film connecting SP to QoS and this flim flamness really spoils it. - This is also why I choose to think Quantum suffered a Coup-de-tat, with the new guard surfacing as Spectre. if the writers won't fill in the story, we simply have to ourselves.

Blofeld's entrance. - Its another Mendes knock off to the past. In this case the ominous scenes in Dr No when Dent unwisely goes to see No in broad daylight. Right from the subdued lighting, annoying pauses and overly theatrical ripple of fear that runs round the huge table. Its annoying because with a bit more effort, the scene could have been paced better to establish Hinx's presence, and give both him and Blofeld more personality in these scenes instead of this ostentatious farting about!

I'll stop there, as I say the list is endless, and in spite of these irritiations I did enjoy the film for what it is. (Minus the DB10. Ugly car!!)

chrisisall · March 2016

Thunderbird 2 wrote:

(Minus the DB10. Ugly car!!)

I'm relieved that I'm not the only one who thought that. {[]

MarcAngeDraco · March 2016

Thunderbird 2 wrote:

MarcAngeDraco wrote:

I'm curious to know what your issues are with the computer drive, Patrice's painting victim, Mr White, Blofeld's entrance, etc.

Computer drive - blatent macguffin. Silva could have just hacked the data, as he does M-Manf's files later on. The Computer drive is a weak excuse for the chase sequence. Good chase sequence, but weak reasoning. Why not a deadly bacterium, nuclear material sample, or perhaps powerful but toxic fuel vial? - Alongside the hacked data would have proved more effective in the chase scenes, and upped the stakes.

It's all part of Silva's plan to lure M and MI6 in, just as the Lektor was. You're right, if he simply wanted the agents name, he would have hacked, but that wasn't his end game.

Patrice's Painting Victim. - Padding! Who was he, did he have any relevance to the story? If yes what was it? (We know he didn't because there is no reference to it later on at all, when Silva explains everything.) Its more padding to drag out the scene where Bond kills Patrice. Yet a few lines of dialogue could have made good use of the scene in its entirety, including Seravine's involvement.

It's all part of a deleted scene, as you are probably aware, but the visuals do make it pretty clear what's happening. Lure in a buyer, kill him, have the transaction take place at the casino - it's how Silva funds his operations (well, before SP retconned that idea). Plus it's full of intrigue. We don't need Silva to explain every little detail. Too much exposition is boring and suggests audiences aren't clever enough to pick up on the smaller things.

Won't bother with SP... It's not worth debating.

)

Lady Rose · March 2016

MarcAngeDraco wrote:

Yeah I was wondering why no one knew about it. Of course, if C had surveillance on everything, and SPECTRE was behind her death, would he have had access to her files? Why not have told Mallory or Tanner? Or Bond in the car? ................................................
All Bond needed to say was that "M told me to track down Marco Sciarra". And on top of that - why would M send Bond a secret tape, knowing how much grief Bond has put her through - wouldn't she want him to go through the proper channels for once?

I've doctored your quote there a bit but I think the reason M didn't tell anyone else or go through proper channels is she knew that they had been infiltrated and couldn't trust anyone else or put it in 'writing' so to speak.

Mr Martini wrote:

Personally I think it was just a way to have Judy Dench in another Bond movie. They love her so much they just can't let go. What next? Bond having dreams about her? Maybe her Ghost will appear in a future installment? Or maybe she faked her death and is Blofelds right hand women?

I agree with you. Anything to shoe horn Judi Dench in for one last time. I was delighted to see the back of her in Skyfall then she managed to squeeze her way into Spectre ... I think she's going to need a stake through her heart :v

zaphod99 · March 2016

Lady Rose wrote:

MarcAngeDraco wrote:

Yeah I was wondering why no one knew about it. Of course, if C had surveillance on everything, and SPECTRE was behind her death, would he have had access to her files? Why not have told Mallory or Tanner? Or Bond in the car? ................................................
All Bond needed to say was that "M told me to track down Marco Sciarra". And on top of that - why would M send Bond a secret tape, knowing how much grief Bond has put her through - wouldn't she want him to go through the proper channels for once?

I've doctored your quote there a bit but I think the reason M didn't tell anyone else or go through proper channels is she knew that they had been infiltrated and couldn't trust anyone else or put it in 'writing' so to speak.

Mr Martini wrote:

Personally I think it was just a way to have Judy Dench in another Bond movie. They love her so much they just can't let go. What next? Bond having dreams about her? Maybe her Ghost will appear in a future installment? Or maybe she faked her death and is Blofelds right hand women?

I agree with you. Anything to shoe horn Judi Dench in for one last time. I was delighted to see the back of her in Skyfall then she managed to squeeze her way into Spectre ... I think she's going to need a stake through her heart :v

M is of course a codename, oh damn it it is a codename. Doh!

)

How did M know about Marco Sciara?

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