Boris is also a popular candidate in the country at large....
Not sure where you get that idea from?
The guy is a walking disaster...he’s a bumbling idiot AT BEST!
I know the UK is famed for its sense of humour...but putting Boris in charge...???...the lunatics really will have taken over the asylum...time to see if I qualify for another country...
Boris is very entertaining and funny and he's been a Brexiteer for a long time. As far as I can see that's his qualifications.
Now both the UK and the US will have a leader with a "relaxed" attitude to truth and facts, even though Boris is a a milder version.
Well, as Johnson backed the Leave campaign in 2016 I'd like to have thought so! Hunt and May both backed Remain at that time. Don't forget, Johnson was also a correspondent in Brussels for the Daily Telegraph for several years so I'm sure he knew all of the faults and failings of what became the EU!
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
Well, as Johnson backed the Leave campaign in 2016 I'd like to have thought so! Hunt and May both backed Remain at that time. Don't forget, Johnson was also a correspondent in Brussels for the Daily Telegraph for several years so I'm sure he knew all of the faults and failings of what became the EU!
during his time in Brussels, the EU was already. It has not become the EU.
And he knows not only about faults and failings of the EU, he's also very much aware of the many positive aspects, thus he would not support Leave until later in 2016. It was absolutely possible that he'd run for Remain at that time, too.
Well, as Johnson backed the Leave campaign in 2016 I'd like to have thought so! Hunt and May both backed Remain at that time. Don't forget, Johnson was also a correspondent in Brussels for the Daily Telegraph for several years so I'm sure he knew all of the faults and failings of what became the EU!
during his time in Brussels, the EU was already. It has not become the EU.
And he knows not only about faults and failings of the EU, he's also very much aware of the many positive aspects, thus he would not support Leave until later in 2016.
No, I'm afraid you're mistaken, Higgins. Technically, at the very least. I worded it that way for a very specific reason. I'm well aware of the history of the EU and its forerunners, having studied substantive EU law in two modules for a Masters in Law. I'll explain my reasoning to you below, which is backed up by plain fact.
When Boris Johnson was first appointed as the Daily Telegraph correspondent for Brussels it was in early 1989. Now at that time what is now called the EU was called the European Economic Community (EEC). It wasn't until the Treaty of Maastricht came into force in 1993 that the name changed to the current one: the European Union (EU). It was as much about political union as economic union. Johnson, the Daily Telegraph's Brussels correspondent, remaining in that post until 1994. So, the EU was only in existence for about a year of the time Johnson was reporting from Brussels. And, though he may well have been aware of "the many positive aspects" (your words, not mine) of that organisation he certainly chose not to report on them, being one of the few Eurosceptic journalists in Brussels at that time. So, his Brexit supporting credentials seem to have been in evidence long before the Leave campaign in 2016.
That link you provided is very old (2004) news, too, to be honest and not really relevant to the Tory leadership campaign that is currently taking place. Johnson apologised for the offence caused at the time and visited the people of Liverpool to make amends. I think we should accept that apology and the penance paid and move on, quite frankly.
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
No, I'm afraid you're mistaken, Higgins. Technically, at the very least. I worded it that way for a very specific reason. I'm well aware of the history of the EU and its forerunners, having studied substantive EU law in two modules for a Masters in Law. I'll explain my reasoning to you below, which is backed up by plain fact.
When Boris Johnson was first appointed as the Daily Telegraph correspondent for Brussels it was in early 1989. Now at that time what is now called the EU was called the European Economic Community (EEC). It wasn't until the Treaty of Maastricht came into force in 1993 that the name changed to the current one: the European Union (EU).
And I knew what your reply would be about*
The Maastricht treaty was signed February 1992, so it was long negotiated before and was signed right in the middle of Johnson's tenure.
*Now as you obviously see the political expansion of the EU as one of the „faults and failings“:
It was a direct reaction to the downfall of the Iron Curtain (1989) and as a result, many countries of the Warsaw pact became independent.
So the decision had to be done:
1. let them fall into the control of Russia or,
2. embed them politically into the West by letting them join the then EU and thus further expand the peace keeping (and thus political) role of the EU.
I am pretty sure that you agree, that at that time the further political integration of the EEC was without much alternative.
I haven't checked, but I am pretty sure, the UK government signed the Maastricht treaty as well.
As for the WWU, the UK opted out and still does not have the EURO currency.
It's easy to critizise the expansion (territorial and political) expansion of the EEC to the EU, but everybody who had the privilege to experience those days knows, that those decisions had to be done quick and bold.
I'd say that the conversion to what we are calling the EU started right after 1989, but I agree, it was signed later and became effect in 1993.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
As for Johnson having a tradition of being an Eurosceptic:
He was contracted by the Torygraph, so he knew, what he had to write and he knew his target group.
You can't dispute that prior to the Brexit Referendum, Johnson clearly avoided to position himself to one side or the other, as far as I remember, he was mainly running against everything that Cameron would stand for as a result of a University rivallry.
Also, during his service as London Major 2008-2016, he was outspoken EU-friendly.
Quote Boris Johnson 2013:
"If we left the EU, we would end this sterile debate, and we would have to recognise that most of our problems are not caused by “Bwussels”, but by chronic British short-termism, inadequate management, sloth, low skills, a culture of easy gratification and underinvestment in both human and physical capital and infrastructure"
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Boris is also a popular candidate in the country at large....
Not sure where you get that idea from?
The guy is a walking disaster...he’s a bumbling idiot AT BEST!
I know the UK is famed for its sense of humour...but putting Boris in charge...???...the lunatics really will have taken over the asylum...time to see if I qualify for another country...
I understand where you are coming from Sir Miles re: Boris, however the thought of the likes of Corbyn, Abbott & McDonnell in charge of this country terrifies me if I'm being honest!
And on that note, I see Labour are endearing themselves to the hardworking souls in this country who wish to leave their loved ones something when they pass on, by proposing a cut to the inheritance tax allowance ... if ever there was a vote 'turd in a swimming pool' it's that!
I wanted to add, that it's a legend, that the European political integration has started with the beginning of the EU in 1993!
The conversion from a Trade Union ONLY to a Political Union started in the 1970s with the EPZ (European Cooperation).
That process was started in 1970 (with the UK signing it) and went until 1993 when the European Union became effective.
The idea, that before 1993, it was a Trade Union Only because the name was EEC is absurd.
As said, that process started in 1970 and had different dynamics.
After the fall of the iron curtain 1989, the European Integration collected more steam and the name EEC was obsolete for quite a long time.
So, Boris Johnson may have been a witness of the endgame of the European Integration, but what became the EU was mostly existent in 1990 already.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,749Chief of Staff
Boris is also a popular candidate in the country at large....
Not sure where you get that idea from?
The guy is a walking disaster...he’s a bumbling idiot AT BEST!
I know the UK is famed for its sense of humour...but putting Boris in charge...???...the lunatics really will have taken over the asylum...time to see if I qualify for another country...
I understand where you are coming from Sir Miles re: Boris, however the thought of the likes of Corbyn, Abbott & McDonnell in charge of this country terrifies me if I'm being honest!
I think it’s frying pan or fire time...I’m slightly less worried with Corbyn & Co. than Boris...but it does feel like we are all playing Russian Roulette
YNWA 97
Silhouette ManThe last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,845MI6 Agent
Boris is also a popular candidate in the country at large....
Not sure where you get that idea from?
The guy is a walking disaster...he’s a bumbling idiot AT BEST!
I know the UK is famed for its sense of humour...but putting Boris in charge...???...the lunatics really will have taken over the asylum...time to see if I qualify for another country...
Yes, perhaps I should have qualified that rather general statement by saying Boris is popular in the conservative and floating voter element in the country at large. A recent poll has shown a landslide for Boris being inevitable from the voting figures among the Tory membership. There is a feeling that however good and impressive Hunt is on paper he's just going to be more of the same as we already had for the last three years with May.
Ultimately, the vast majority of Tory party members will vote for the candidate who can most ably deliver Brexit as promised to the electorate in the 2017 manifesto, unite the Conservative Party, win the next general election and see off the combined threats of Jeremy Corbyn and Nigel Farage and then deliver on pressing domestic reform. Whatever way you look at that it's clear that Boris Johnson is the only candidate left in the race who can deliver on these pressing outstanding matters.
Whether people in the country at large like Boris or not is going to be irrelevant. Boris will have to of course earn their trust and respect to stay in power and win the next general election, which may be imminent if the Opposition has their way (as soon as September 2019?). It's almost a certainty now that he's going to win the Tory leadership and the premiership and people would be best preparing getting used to it.
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
Silhouette ManThe last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,845MI6 Agent
edited July 2019
Boris Johnson has won the Conservative Party leadership contest of 2019. Almost 160,000 Conservative members were eligible to vote and turnout was 87.4%.
Yes, but Boris must be a dream subject compared to hunt.
If they could successfully caricature prime ministers as dull as the likes of John Major or Theresa May then I'm sure they could have done the same with Jeremy Hunt. My point is that they are always creative no matter who gets in to No. 10.
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
Exactly, and the Conservatives have picked the right leader to defeat him in what could be (depending on events) an imminent UK general election. As well as the pressing need to deliver on Brexit by 31 October an upcoming general election has also been to the forefront of the minds of the Conservative Party membership. That is what probably galvanised them more than anything to vote by a majority for Boris Johnson.
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
Yes, but Boris must be a dream subject compared to hunt.
If they could successfully caricature prime ministers as dull as the likes of John Major or Theresa May then I'm sure they could have done the same with Jeremy Hunt. My point is that they are always creative no matter who gets in to No. 10.
Of course they can, but Boris has a look and personality that almost screams out for comedy and charicature. Someone said Boris can be compared to a fun sports car and Hunt to a reliable and dull Volvo.
Yes, but Boris must be a dream subject compared to hunt.
If they could successfully caricature prime ministers as dull as the likes of John Major or Theresa May then I'm sure they could have done the same with Jeremy Hunt. My point is that they are always creative no matter who gets in to No. 10.
Of course they can, but Boris has a look and personality that almost screams out for comedy and charicature. Someone said Boris can be compared to a fun sports car and Hunt to a reliable and dull Volvo.
Yes, "reliable and dull". "A safe pair of hands." "Strong and stable leadership."
We all know by now where that has led us these last three years - down the garden path. Perhaps it can now be appreciated why the Conservative Party didn't vote for the Theresa May continuation candidate in Jeremy Hunt.
Everyone jokes about Hunt being an entrepreneur, as he keeps
Mentioning it in every speech ) even political programmes
Make fun of him for it.
Yes, indeed the media have made fun of Hunt's line that he would be the first prime minister to have been an entrepreneur. That included the great and incisive Andrew Neil who said in his interview with him that he hadn't heard before that Hunt was an entrepreneur, qualifying it with "only about fifty times!"
Okay, but it's a bit like choosing a new James Bond, where they go for someone who has all the attributes the previous incumbent lacked, but sadly none of his virtues.
"This is where we leave you Mr Bond."
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,749Chief of Staff
Boris Johnson has won the Conservative Party leadership contest of 2019. Almost 160,000 Conservative members were eligible to vote and turnout was 87.4%.
I wouldn’t put that arsehole in charge of the tuck shop
YNWA 97
Silhouette ManThe last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,845MI6 Agent
edited July 2019
Just saw a joke on Twitter which amused me to no end. It was in reference to Jeremy Corbyn's idle threat to have a vote of no confidence in Boris Johnson as PM at a time of his choosing:
Diane Abbott has it penciled in for 30th Feb 1976.
)
I think someone mentioned clowns earlier on in regard to Boris Johnson, so it's only fair that we bring some much-needed balance to this thread and have a look at the current Shadow Home Secretary's credibility as a key member of the Labour Opposition:
Comments
The guy is a walking disaster...he’s a bumbling idiot AT BEST!
I know the UK is famed for its sense of humour...but putting Boris in charge...???...the lunatics really will have taken over the asylum...time to see if I qualify for another country...
Now both the UK and the US will have a leader with a "relaxed" attitude to truth and facts, even though Boris is a a milder version.
A bit more than 3 years ago, he could not be bothered to position himself pro-Brexit.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Well, as Johnson backed the Leave campaign in 2016 I'd like to have thought so! Hunt and May both backed Remain at that time. Don't forget, Johnson was also a correspondent in Brussels for the Daily Telegraph for several years so I'm sure he knew all of the faults and failings of what became the EU!
during his time in Brussels, the EU was already. It has not become the EU.
And he knows not only about faults and failings of the EU, he's also very much aware of the many positive aspects, thus he would not support Leave until later in 2016. It was absolutely possible that he'd run for Remain at that time, too.
Paul Bigley described Mr Johnson as a "self-centred pompous twit" who should "get out of public life"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/3758340.stm
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
No, I'm afraid you're mistaken, Higgins. Technically, at the very least. I worded it that way for a very specific reason. I'm well aware of the history of the EU and its forerunners, having studied substantive EU law in two modules for a Masters in Law. I'll explain my reasoning to you below, which is backed up by plain fact.
When Boris Johnson was first appointed as the Daily Telegraph correspondent for Brussels it was in early 1989. Now at that time what is now called the EU was called the European Economic Community (EEC). It wasn't until the Treaty of Maastricht came into force in 1993 that the name changed to the current one: the European Union (EU). It was as much about political union as economic union. Johnson, the Daily Telegraph's Brussels correspondent, remaining in that post until 1994. So, the EU was only in existence for about a year of the time Johnson was reporting from Brussels. And, though he may well have been aware of "the many positive aspects" (your words, not mine) of that organisation he certainly chose not to report on them, being one of the few Eurosceptic journalists in Brussels at that time. So, his Brexit supporting credentials seem to have been in evidence long before the Leave campaign in 2016.
That link you provided is very old (2004) news, too, to be honest and not really relevant to the Tory leadership campaign that is currently taking place. Johnson apologised for the offence caused at the time and visited the people of Liverpool to make amends. I think we should accept that apology and the penance paid and move on, quite frankly.
- Mark Twain
And I knew what your reply would be about*
The Maastricht treaty was signed February 1992, so it was long negotiated before and was signed right in the middle of Johnson's tenure.
*Now as you obviously see the political expansion of the EU as one of the „faults and failings“:
It was a direct reaction to the downfall of the Iron Curtain (1989) and as a result, many countries of the Warsaw pact became independent.
So the decision had to be done:
1. let them fall into the control of Russia or,
2. embed them politically into the West by letting them join the then EU and thus further expand the peace keeping (and thus political) role of the EU.
I am pretty sure that you agree, that at that time the further political integration of the EEC was without much alternative.
I haven't checked, but I am pretty sure, the UK government signed the Maastricht treaty as well.
As for the WWU, the UK opted out and still does not have the EURO currency.
It's easy to critizise the expansion (territorial and political) expansion of the EEC to the EU, but everybody who had the privilege to experience those days knows, that those decisions had to be done quick and bold.
I'd say that the conversion to what we are calling the EU started right after 1989, but I agree, it was signed later and became effect in 1993.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
He was contracted by the Torygraph, so he knew, what he had to write and he knew his target group.
You can't dispute that prior to the Brexit Referendum, Johnson clearly avoided to position himself to one side or the other, as far as I remember, he was mainly running against everything that Cameron would stand for as a result of a University rivallry.
Also, during his service as London Major 2008-2016, he was outspoken EU-friendly.
Quote Boris Johnson 2013:
"If we left the EU, we would end this sterile debate, and we would have to recognise that most of our problems are not caused by “Bwussels”, but by chronic British short-termism, inadequate management, sloth, low skills, a culture of easy gratification and underinvestment in both human and physical capital and infrastructure"
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I understand where you are coming from Sir Miles re: Boris, however the thought of the likes of Corbyn, Abbott & McDonnell in charge of this country terrifies me if I'm being honest!
And on that note, I see Labour are endearing themselves to the hardworking souls in this country who wish to leave their loved ones something when they pass on, by proposing a cut to the inheritance tax allowance ... if ever there was a vote 'turd in a swimming pool' it's that!
The conversion from a Trade Union ONLY to a Political Union started in the 1970s with the EPZ (European Cooperation).
That process was started in 1970 (with the UK signing it) and went until 1993 when the European Union became effective.
The idea, that before 1993, it was a Trade Union Only because the name was EEC is absurd.
As said, that process started in 1970 and had different dynamics.
After the fall of the iron curtain 1989, the European Integration collected more steam and the name EEC was obsolete for quite a long time.
So, Boris Johnson may have been a witness of the endgame of the European Integration, but what became the EU was mostly existent in 1990 already.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I think it’s frying pan or fire time...I’m slightly less worried with Corbyn & Co. than Boris...but it does feel like we are all playing Russian Roulette
Yes, perhaps I should have qualified that rather general statement by saying Boris is popular in the conservative and floating voter element in the country at large. A recent poll has shown a landslide for Boris being inevitable from the voting figures among the Tory membership. There is a feeling that however good and impressive Hunt is on paper he's just going to be more of the same as we already had for the last three years with May.
Ultimately, the vast majority of Tory party members will vote for the candidate who can most ably deliver Brexit as promised to the electorate in the 2017 manifesto, unite the Conservative Party, win the next general election and see off the combined threats of Jeremy Corbyn and Nigel Farage and then deliver on pressing domestic reform. Whatever way you look at that it's clear that Boris Johnson is the only candidate left in the race who can deliver on these pressing outstanding matters.
Whether people in the country at large like Boris or not is going to be irrelevant. Boris will have to of course earn their trust and respect to stay in power and win the next general election, which may be imminent if the Opposition has their way (as soon as September 2019?). It's almost a certainty now that he's going to win the Tory leadership and the premiership and people would be best preparing getting used to it.
The final tally of votes was as follows:
Boris Johnson: 92,153 votes (66% of the vote)
Jeremy Hunt: 46,656 votes (34% of the vote)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49084605
I think that they always have plenty of subject matter regardless of who becomes prime minister. It's simply what they do.
If they could successfully caricature prime ministers as dull as the likes of John Major or Theresa May then I'm sure they could have done the same with Jeremy Hunt. My point is that they are always creative no matter who gets in to No. 10.
Exactly, and the Conservatives have picked the right leader to defeat him in what could be (depending on events) an imminent UK general election. As well as the pressing need to deliver on Brexit by 31 October an upcoming general election has also been to the forefront of the minds of the Conservative Party membership. That is what probably galvanised them more than anything to vote by a majority for Boris Johnson.
Of course they can, but Boris has a look and personality that almost screams out for comedy and charicature. Someone said Boris can be compared to a fun sports car and Hunt to a reliable and dull Volvo.
Mentioning it in every speech
Make fun of him for it.
'Stop that Swinson nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooowww!'
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Yes, "reliable and dull". "A safe pair of hands." "Strong and stable leadership."
We all know by now where that has led us these last three years - down the garden path. Perhaps it can now be appreciated why the Conservative Party didn't vote for the Theresa May continuation candidate in Jeremy Hunt.
Yes, indeed the media have made fun of Hunt's line that he would be the first prime minister to have been an entrepreneur. That included the great and incisive Andrew Neil who said in his interview with him that he hadn't heard before that Hunt was an entrepreneur, qualifying it with "only about fifty times!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_g58VPCs_w
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Christ, no
I wouldn’t put that arsehole in charge of the tuck shop
Diane Abbott has it penciled in for 30th Feb 1976.
I think someone mentioned clowns earlier on in regard to Boris Johnson, so it's only fair that we bring some much-needed balance to this thread and have a look at the current Shadow Home Secretary's credibility as a key member of the Labour Opposition:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxjkvjHn6Qg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYZ262b7wBI
I hope this women never gets into government ….
If it's the Left it's OK you see and that includes Stalin. If it's the Right it's a different matter. Typical hypocrisy of the Left.