The General UK Politics (Past and Present) Discussion Thread

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  • ChriscoopChriscoop Belize Posts: 10,458MI6 Agent
    But is it undemocratic if it protects a democratic vote result from undemocratic behaviour by mps who by rights should be representing the people who voted for them and not pursuing their own agenda? It's a tough one.
    It was either that.....or the priesthood
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 37,861Chief of Staff
    Yes, it is.
    Yesitisreverse.jpg
  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 22,334MI6 Agent
    I understand the PM in Britain has the right to call for a new elelction and it seems like a natural time to do so. The situation in Parliament and the Cabinet has been messy for some time, and now there is actually a Brexit negotiation result to vote over, unlike the time where the referendum was misplaced.
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,619MI6 Agent
    I agree with Barbel.
    Here MPs are free to follow their own opinion - anytime.
    Pretty sure it‘s the same in the UK.

    And maybe we don‘t see the forest with all these trees.
    Johnson makes it sound like he‘s ok with the Withdrawal agreement as he seems to focus on the backstop.

    Don‘t get fooled, He‘s only playing the backstop because he knows that presently there is no solution for that.

    He‘s just showcasing goodwill - in his heart he needs the Hard Brexit , the only reason for the focus on backstop is that he needs it to blame the EU if the country suffers after it
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • ChriscoopChriscoop Belize Posts: 10,458MI6 Agent
    He can't ram through any legislation, the problem that exists is that parliament DID vote by a majority to trigger article 50, at that time and in law in doing so they accepted it was either with or without a deal, many of those same mps then voted down the withdrawal agreement which they full well know was the only alternative to a no deal, now many of those same mps want to prevent what they originally voted for and or frustrate brexit all together. And its not just tories either, Labour mps have consistently voted against the government (under threat by Corbyn) even if they were happy enough with the agreement, we've come literally to "what else can we do" territory for the government now and perogation is one of those things.
    It was either that.....or the priesthood
  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 22,334MI6 Agent
    Somehow I misunderstood the issue. I thought it was about calling for a new election, not suspending Parliament. I'm against the PM suspending Parliament at such an important time.
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,619MI6 Agent
    All this aside, I find it remarkable how fast Brexiteers, who constantly point out the ‚free and democratic vote about Brexit“ are quickly ok with and are defending an obvious attempt to lever off the democratic process in the UK parliament in an almost dictatorial move.

    I for my part would at least voice some personal concerns.
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • ChriscoopChriscoop Belize Posts: 10,458MI6 Agent
    Higgins wrote:
    All this aside, I find it remarkable how fast Brexiteers, who constantly point out the ‚free and democratic vote about Brexit“ are quickly ok with and are defending an obvious attempt to lever off the democratic process in the UK parliament in an almost dictatorial move.

    I for my part would at least voice some personal concerns.

    Who are these fast Brexiteers Higgins?
    It was either that.....or the priesthood
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,619MI6 Agent
    Brexiteers, who show up quickly defending a total undemocratic behaviour.

    The fast was a synonyme for quickly.
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • ChriscoopChriscoop Belize Posts: 10,458MI6 Agent
    Higgins wrote:
    Brexiteers, who show up quickly defending a total undemocratic behaviour.

    The fast was a synonyme for quickly.
    I'm still not sure who you are referring to?
    It was either that.....or the priesthood
  • ChriscoopChriscoop Belize Posts: 10,458MI6 Agent
    The toxic mess in the house has become to one degree or another undemocratic and unrepresentative of the people. When an MP or for that matter a political party stands on a manifesto that pledges certain things and is duly elected then decide to fly in the face of those voters they should be kicked into touch, as that can't happen until a by election or general election the voters are stuck being unrepresented.
    It was either that.....or the priesthood
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,619MI6 Agent
    People are getting elected, not manifestos,agendas or programmes
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • ChriscoopChriscoop Belize Posts: 10,458MI6 Agent
    Mps get elected based on party manifestos, and election pledges and what they stand for, not because they are a decent person who's not sure at the moment but might be later on :))
    It was either that.....or the priesthood
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,619MI6 Agent
    edited August 2019
    Representative democracy:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Representative_democracy

    "is a type of democracy founded on the principle of elected officials representing a group of people, as opposed to direct democracy"
    It's a popular (populist) legend (misunderstanding), that you elect people who are then fulfilling what you want and asked them for, just like a painter or advocate does a job for you.

    If someone degrades their MPs to some "order and command" relationship, that will be the end of our parliamentary system.
    If you treat your representatives like spineless servants, don't be surprised, when you are getting exactly that.
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • ChriscoopChriscoop Belize Posts: 10,458MI6 Agent
    It was either that.....or the priesthood
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,619MI6 Agent
    And I was hoping that you‘d get it :D
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • Silhouette ManSilhouette Man The last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,845MI6 Agent
    It seems the pathetic wrecking-ball Remain MPs in Parliament have missed the bus as well as the point. :D
    "The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
  • ChriscoopChriscoop Belize Posts: 10,458MI6 Agent
    Have to say, hats off to Ruth Davidson. She has been an outstanding politician, honest and stuck to her morals and principles, I also couldn't agree more with what she said in her parting speach. The UK need more like her.
    It was either that.....or the priesthood
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 37,861Chief of Staff
    Hear, hear. I am far from a Tory, but she has been most impressive and they will have a hard job to replace her.
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,619MI6 Agent
    Remarkable, that Mr. Johnson now threatens opposing members of his own party with exclusion for not following the party line and not supporting the gouvernment.

    Wasn‘t he recently himself a proud member of Troy „rebels“ who put own opinions and interest above party line and government interest?
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • Napoleon PluralNapoleon Plural LondonPosts: 10,467MI6 Agent
    Boris.jpg

    Casino KnowAll

    A blond, blue-eyed serial shagger earns his stripes - rather late in the day - and sets about wreaking havoc with a series of dangerous gambles.

    "The question is, will you yield?"
    "This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

    Roger Moore 1927-2017
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,619MI6 Agent
    I don‘t think that the EU will move.

    The UK want to leave the Union, in 3 years of negotiations, the future relationships have been drawn out and the UK did not sign this.

    Why would the EU now move?


    Take the offered deal or leave without a deal, but don‘t blame the EU in the end for the outcome.
    It‘s pretty simple.
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,619MI6 Agent
    Serial Shagger...

    Is that a real term?
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 37,861Chief of Staff
    Higgins wrote:
    Serial Shagger...

    Is that a real term?

    Of course! It's a job title, for someone who uses rice krispies as a floor covering-

    500-F-250153172-x-Z1-Ob59-ZZ9-Moo-XMTOv-Ljy-H4-MQj-Ng16-Bo.jpg

    Or perhaps corn flakes-

    breakfast-cereal-cornflakes-white-cup-260nw-382589656.png
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,619MI6 Agent
    :v I see what you are doing here, Barbel
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 37,861Chief of Staff
    Who, me?

    More importantly, a Tory MP has just defected to the Lib Dems. This leaves Boris with a majority of.... nil.
  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 22,334MI6 Agent
    edited September 2019
    For along time Brexiteers here and in general and here on this thread have argued that the politicians on the other side are undemocratic. I won't argue for or against that now, but it looks like Boris Johnson is worse. It's a dispointment to me, and maybe for many Brexiteers too.
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,619MI6 Agent
    :o
    What was the shortest Pm‘ship in UK history, I think that Bojo is out for a new record? :D
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,619MI6 Agent
    Number24 wrote:
    For along time Brexiteers here and in general and here on this thread have argued that the politicians on the other side are undemocratic. I won't argue for or against that now, but it loks like Boris Johnson is worse. It's a dispointment to me, and maybe for many Brexiteers too.

    Yes, but the argumentation from the Cons is, that the undemocratic Remainers disregarded the democratic ( unbinding) Referendum in an undemocratic kind of way and thus must be defeated with undemocratic measures.

    Not that it makes any sense at all, it‘s a bit like f*cking for virginity :s
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 22,334MI6 Agent
    Boris Johnson just lost his majority in the House of Commons. .
This discussion has been closed.