Your retrospective on Skyfall and Spectre

walther p99 · October 2016

This Wednesday marks Skyfall's 4th and Spectre's 1st anniversary. I'm interested to see how members view the films in retrospect.

1.What was your excitement leading up to SF/SP like? were they any different?
2.What was your initial reaction to the films? has anything changed over time?

For me personally the year or so leading up to Skyfall was the most exciting build up to a Bond film I've had yet. That year as a whole was really great and SF was just the cherry on top so perhaps I view it through rose tinted glasses now. My initial reaction to the film is the same now as it was the second the credits started rolling, which is its the greatest Bond film I've ever seen.
Spectre also had a great buildup, and it was the first Bond film I actually went to London to see in IMAX which was really exciting. That said I wasn't as enthusiastic this time around following the production perhaps because I had a lingering feeling that it wouldn't top SF or something. and again much like SF my initial feelings for SP was cemented soon after the credits starting rolling except this time it was just a collective "meh" feeling mixed with disappointment.

Chriscoop · October 2016

After watching dad at the cinema I was incredibly disappointed, in fact walking out I remember thinking what a shame my favourite films had come to this and I would never go to the cinema to watch bond again...well it was a short sighted view as roll on a few years and my favourite actor is announced as the new bond, I loved cr and my excitement had built steadily prior to every successive release. I actually don't mind dad these days in the right mood.
I had high hopes for sf and wasn't disappointed by it though I did harbour a very light resentment to the retrograde step but soon got over that. I also easily forgave the plot holes, Skyfall for me has improved with age and I thoroughly enjoy it. Building up to Spectre I was incredibly excited and for the first time looked for shooting news and tidbits, purposely didn't read spoilers or reviews and went to see it.... And was delighted, impressed and disappointed. I think they could have done it so much better, the score was disappointing and the brother thing had me shaking my head. But there is so much there I enjoy that along with all the other films, i love it because it's bond. My appetite for bond has grown as an adult to the same level I had when the Christmas TV schedule came out and as a young boy scoured the pages to see which bonds were on and when

zaphod99 · October 2016

I was really excited in the build up to Skyfall, possibly because QoS left a bad taste. I really enjoyed it at the time of viewing but overtime my opinion of it has diminished. Spectre just left me cold and very dissatisfied at the time. I have watched it subsequently, but probably won't do again for a while.

sniperUK · October 2016

Skyfall I really enjoyed and still do, after looking forwards to SPECTRE coming out of the cinema both myself and my wife came out saying "was that it ?" I have tried to watch it several times since on disc and switch off after about twenty minutes ,my opinion of it now is lower than whale s**t.

Gassy Man · October 2016

I still find Skyfall terribly overrated and too derivative of The Dark Knight and Straw Dogs. The illogic of its story is probably the only time in any Bond film that I've seen this flaw -- I could suspend belief with the fantasy elements, but Skyfall expects the reader to ignore some significant lapses. Spectre, for all its criticism, is not more empty-headed. What it lacks is the sentimentality that Skyfall had, and if people are moved emotionally, many of them will look past the stupidity of what they've seen. That's why Spectre stands out as a failure in contrast. Don't get me wrong: Both fall short of the spectacle and "larger than life" qualities we expect of a Bond film in many ways, but Spectre has bigger set pieces and more of a Bond film feel than Skyfall, which could have been a generic actioner, even with the trivia from Bond's life that is part of the sentimentality. But Skyfall pulled the equivalent of trotting out puppies and babies to make us feel more about what was going on than the story as told truly deserves.

Matt S · October 2016

I was never that excited with the lead-ups to SF and SP because I knew Daniel Craig was in them and he had already let me down before. Then with SP I was sad that they were bringing back two of the worst people who worked on SF, Jany Temime and Thomas Newman. But I was really glad that Judi Dench was no longer Bond's boss.

My initial reaction to SF was fairly positive, since I enjoyed it more than Craig's first two films, but I haven't thought so positively of it on subsequent viewings. SP held up just as well on subsequent viewings.

Gassy Man wrote:

I still find Skyfall terribly overrated and too derivative of The Dark Knight and Straw Dogs. The illogic of its story is probably the only time in any Bond film that I've seen this flaw -- I could suspend belief with the fantasy elements, but Skyfall expects the reader to ignore some significant lapses. Spectre, for all its criticism, is not more empty-headed. What it lacks is the sentimentality that Skyfall had, and if people are moved emotionally, many of them will look past the stupidity of what they've seen. That's why Spectre stands out as a failure in contrast. Don't get me wrong: Both fall short of the spectacle and "larger than life" qualities we expect of a Bond film in many ways, but Spectre has bigger set pieces and more of a Bond film feel than Skyfall, which could have been a generic actioner, even with the trivia from Bond's life that is part of the sentimentality. But Skyfall pulled the equivalent of trotting out puppies and babies to make us feel more about what was going on than the story as told truly deserves.

I have to agree that Skyfall is overrated. But then again I think all of Craig's Bond films are overrated except for Spectre (it gets trashed enough). The emotional aspect of Skyfall works the first time you watch it, but on subsequent viewings a film needs more to hold it together. I was sad when I first watched M die, but then after I thought about it I felt that the character deserved to die. I almost never felt like she was on Bond's side, and as Bond's enemy she should naturally be killed off.

Gassy Man · October 2016

I still think Casino Royale is far and away Craig's best effort and really the only contemporary Bond film that makes it into the top 10 for me. It has its flaws, but unlike Skyfall, is legitimately character driven. Skyfall had to do so many clumsy narrative somersaults to make the sentimentality work, its construction is far more clunky and obvious. Too bad each of the films after Craig's first hadn't been as good.

Firemass · October 2016

walther p99 wrote:

1.What was your excitement leading up to SF/SP like? were they any different?
2.What was your initial reaction to the films? has anything changed over time?

For Skyfall:

1. Not a whole lot of excitement. I never forgave EoN for firing Brosnan (the perfect Bond) and steering towards more generic action movies without the usual Bond trademarks and music.

2. I watched Skyfall 4 times in the cinema as my duty as a Bond fan and was kinda swept in the hype…or at least I was excited by how popular it was at the box office. However, with each viewing I liked it less and less to the point where I haven't watched it since. Now I consider it by far the worst Bond film. A total loss.

For Spectre:

1. In recent years I have warmed up to of Daniel Craig's portrayal of Bond mainly because of QoS. When I heard Spectre was going to be a more "traditional" Bond film that got me pretty excited.

2. I ended up seeing Spectre like 7 times in the theatre. I was visiting NYC (007 in New York) at the time which made it easy since there is no cinema where I live. Initially I loved it, mainly because the gunbarrel, PTS, themesong, M, and Q were all awesome. I enjoyed picking up on small references to other films. (like putting his gun on the waiter tray) Craig was well dressed and more likable this time around and seemed to have incorporated a dash of Moore into his Bond.

Upon repeat viewings, the film starts to nosedive as soon as we meet Blofeld and the MI6 finale is among the weakest in the series. The storyline of Blofeld being Bond's brother is too farfetched. (Please resist the urge to dig into Bond's past.) The music borders on gratuitous. Still, the first 3/4 of the Spectre is an almost perfect Bond for me.

Napoleon Plural · October 2016

I avoided all trailers and spoilers for SP and enjoyed it a lot. I'd happily watch it again.

I caught a bit of the build-up to SF but anyhow I hated it and still do. It makes me queasy, depressed. And the plot holes I do find just awful. SP has them too I guess, but it charms me so I don't care.

Revolver66 · October 2016

I was pumped for Skyfall. And when it came out I was initially a little underwhelmed but I now think it is a genuine classic and easily one of the best in the series. When Spectre was announced I was so excited, and it was easily the most enthusiastic I've ever been about a Bond film. Then the film came out and I was pretty let down. It was a sobering film after the high watermark that was Skyfall. It certainly is good in parts but ultimately it doesn't work properly and I now regard it as a disappointment. Skyfall is definitely the better film

Dutchfinger · October 2016

I agree that the build up to Skyfall was fantastic! 2012 was such a golden year for Bond fans! It was like Bond proudly recaptured it's popularity. There's the classic saying that goes: "You're only as good as your last film". To me, Quantum of Solace was a disapointment. But in that year everything was restored. He was at the olympics, the Bond 50 Blu Ray Box came out (Still one of my proudest collectables), Adele won the oscar and even lots of casual people in the bus of streets could be heared chatting about Bond. Skyfall blew my expactations out of the water! I thought the PTS was more exciting and well filmed than the entire expierence of QoS had been. When the credits rolled I was applauding. I was there with a friend who's a real casual Bond fan, and doesn't know much about the franchise. He thought it was funny I was so proud that I had to applaud! (to him the reference of Moneypenny and Bond standing in the classic office in front of a male M followed by a proud gunbarrel really didn't warm his heart :P )

My opinion on Skyfall hasn't changed much, though I do hold Casino Royale above it now (on initial viewing I thought it was Craig's best)

My build up to SPECTRE was very enjoyable on a personal level. With my current girlfriend I had watched all Bond films in order through the span of 1 year. (Started in december 2014) I wanted to take her to SPECTRE and make sure she could enjoy the expierence of a new Bond as much as she could. (Maybe I learned from taking a casual fan to see a new Bond film and how so much was lost on him...) We went to see SP at the pre-premiere at an Imax in the south of the Netherlands (I live in the north). I booked a hotel with her and the dresscode was classy gala. I went in my Bond tuxedo, and my girlfriend was dressed in a black dress as my Bond girl

The night itself was spectacular. I got to meet a fellow Dutch AJB'er in real life that night, (Who I'm still in digital contact to occassionally) and we discussed some of our anticipations and favorite Bond films. Than I won the best dressed award and got awarded a Bond poster (which I lost in the train back home the next day ;% ) There was also a Bond quiz, which I also won (A pack of Bond cards was sent to my adress a week later) The film itself was probably my best theatre expierence to a Bond film. I had never been in such a big room full of Bond fans, and you could tell there were a lot of diehards there by the way they started applauding when the gunbarrel came on. You could also tell a lot by the reactions of the crowd (laughing at in jokes like the hildebrand thing, gasping when Vesper's name is on the tape in Mr. White's appartment, that sorta stuff...)

I thought SPECTRE was highly enjoyable and was one of the best. I still think it's a highly enjoyable film, though I would rank it a bit lower now.

All in all my expierences on these last two films have certainly been great, and I'm looking forward to the build up and pay-off of Bond 25 -{

heartbroken_mr_drax · October 2016

^ Skyfall was very highly regarded by fans and non-fans. Although I will say that removing the magic of the cinema means that for some fans the plot holes and broodiness of the film became more evident.

I saw SF twice at the movies. First viewing I was impressed, but not enamoured by it. I recall being more enamoured by as Dutchfinger says above, the renewed excitement.

I really enjoyed SP at the movies, but I have not seen it again since that single viewing. For some reason I find myself resisting the new releases more and more ?:) I didn't watch SF again for 3 years after the cinema run had ended.

walther p99 · October 2016

Dutchfinger wrote:

I agree that the build up to Skyfall was fantastic! 2012 was such a golden year for Bond fans! It was like Bond proudly recaptured it's popularity. There's the classic saying that goes: "You're only as good as your last film". To me, Quantum of Solace was a dissapointment. Bond in that year everything was restored. He was at the olympics, the Bond 50 Blu Ray Box came out (Still one of my proudest collectables), Adele won the oscar and even lots of casual people in the bus of streets could be heared chatting about Bond. Skyfall blew my expactations out of the water! I thought the PTS was more exciting and well filmed than the entire expierence of QoS had been. When the credits rolled I was applauding. I was there with a friend who's a real casual Bond fan, and doesn't know much about the franchise. He thought it was funny I was so proud that I had to applaud! (to him the reference of Moneypenny and Bond standing in the classic office in front of a male M followed by a proud gunbarrel really didn't warm his heart :P )

Yeah I agree, I think it was probably the biggest resurgence of Bond mania since the 60's I imagine, Bond was everywhere that entire year. Like you said it was the 50th anniversary, The London Olympics, Adele singing the title song among a few things. Its one of those "lightning in a bottle" instances that are so rare where everything just fell into place at the right time. It will probably be a long time if ever I think before another Bond film reaches that level of fever pitch like Skyfall did.

eric7064 · October 2016

I was very excited pre-SF. I was only 17 when it came out but was a huge Bond fan even then. What a movie it was, I had a feeling Bardem would be an amazing villain and in my eyes he has been the best since GoldenEye and one of the best villains in Bond history. It still stands as one of my favorite Bond films to date.

Spectre I was even more hyped for due to the success of SF and the fact nearly everyone was coming back from that production. I always thought Bardem was a great casting choice and there was only one other actor I could see being the BEST Bond Villain. That being Christoph Waltz. I was so happy when they announced him for the Spectre.

Seeing the movie in theatres I thought it was a good film. I could obviously see there attempt at turning back the clock a bit. Opening scene is one of the best in any Bond. And the first half of the movie is really a great Bond film.

Until Waltz comes in. The guy I was so sure would make this film a classic was the thing that brought it down. Not his fault in the slightest, I think it was the writers fault for him not being a more integral part to the movie. I still think Waltz can be a perfect Bond Villain but they really have to make up for it. Finally we get another lair and it gets blown up within 10 minutes of arriving. Disappointing. Then they head back to London for one of the most anti-climatic Bond finales in the series.

Not a bad movie. Could have been great. Also has one of the best fight scenes in the series as well.

chrisisall · October 2016

When I watched SF I felt so depressed. Not since MR in '79 had I felt so let down by a Bond film. It was mostly no fun for me. It took itself SO seriously that it was indeed the flipside of MR which hardly took anything seriously at all. So, not so happy.
Then I wandered into SP expecting a bit better of a flim, but with the same director I didn't expect to be amazed or anything, and ended up having a blast! Best Bond theatrical experience since TND. So much fun, just the right tone. -{

Barbel · October 2016

SP is a good Bond film, though not a great one. Or, indeed, a landmark one- they can't ALL be landmarks in a series that has lasted this long.

KDevereaux · October 2016

Saw CR, QOS, and SF, for the first time the night before seeing SP. After realizing they were all connected I had great expectations for SP, also I have to admit that doing a Craig marathon was pretty filling, so I needed a rest before seeing them again to digest each as an individual film.

chrisisall · October 2016

Barbel wrote:

SP is a good Bond film, though not a great one. Or, indeed, a landmark one- they can't ALL be landmarks in a series that has lasted this long.

Agreed. 'Landmark' Bonds would be Tim's two. :v
:007)

) {[]

Miles Messervy · October 2016

As one of the seemingly few people who enjoyed QoS, I remember being concerned during the long gap that Craig may not come back. When Skyfall was announced, I was elated, and I agree with those above who recall being thrilled with all of the Bond-related excitement that followed during the lead up. In the end, I still highly rate Skyfall, despite its narrative flaws. Maybe I can't separate the film from the sentiment, but I'm a fan not a film critic, so I don't have to.

As for Spectre, I tried to prepare myself for the letdown. I thought Mendes did a good job with Skyfall, but I wasn't keen on his return. Nevertheless, the initial trailers were really good, so I allowed myself to get excited. Ultimately, I was very underwhelmed by The film. I went in hoping for a throwback to the globetrotting Bond of the Moore era. And that's what I got, but I don't think Daniel craig is suited for that Bond. And that's to say nothing of the contrived plot, the abysmal final third, and the disgraceful performance by Waltz.

Spectre has left me feeling very conflicted. While I've enjoyed Craig's Bond films on balance, it definitely seems like a sensible time to move on. Yet, a part of me wants Craig to redeem his Bond following Spectre. Getting rid of the Mendes/Temime/Newman triumvirate could really improve the product. So right now I'm leaning toward wanting Craig to have another go.

Matt S · October 2016

^ Now that you mention the trailer being so good, I forgot how great Spectre's trailer was. It was the best Bond trailer I can remember for a long time. Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace had especially awful trailers.

Wadsy · October 2016

chrisisall wrote:

When I watched SF I felt so depressed. Not since MR in '79 had I felt so let down by a Bond film. It was mostly no fun for me. It took itself SO seriously that it was indeed the flipside of MR which hardly took anything seriously at all. So, not so happy.
Then I wandered into SP expecting a bit better of a flim, but with the same director I didn't expect to be amazed or anything, and ended up having a blast! Best Bond theatrical experience since TND. So much fun, just the right tone. -{

I definitely agree with you on that one

But for me it would be the first since Licence To Kill. I did enjoy Skyfall, but nothing before then. Spectre was great for me, I still like it a lot and DC's best.

zaphod99 · October 2016

Miles Messervy wrote:

As one of the seemingly few people who enjoyed QoS, I remember being concerned during the long gap that Craig may not come back. When Skyfall was announced, I was elated, and I agree with those above who recall being thrilled with all of the Bond-related excitement that followed during the lead up. In the end, I still highly rate Skyfall, despite its narrative flaws. Maybe I can't separate the film from the sentiment, but I'm a fan not a film critic, so I don't have to.

As for Spectre, I tried to prepare myself for the letdown. I thought Mendes did a good job with Skyfall, but I wasn't keen on his return. Nevertheless, the initial trailers were really good, so I allowed myself to get excited. Ultimately, I was very underwhelmed by The film. I went in hoping for a throwback to the globetrotting Bond of the Moore era. And that's what I got, but I don't think Daniel craig is suited for that Bond. And that's to say nothing of the contrived plot, the abysmal final third, and the disgraceful performance by Waltz.

Spectre has left me feeling very conflicted. While I've enjoyed Craig's Bond films on balance, it definitely seems like a sensible time to move on. Yet, a part of me wants Craig to redeem his Bond following Spectre. Getting rid of the Mendes/Temime/Newman triumvirate could really improve the product. So right now I'm leaning toward wanting Craig to have another go.

For me the Craig era has been about peaks and troughs. Like you although very disappointed by SP so although it is most definitely time for a new Bond part of me thinks he deserves a much better swansong (as long as it could be done quickly enough) A smaller, tight, tense older Bond story could really work.

ToTheRight · October 2016

I remember having a blast with SF when I saw it initially. I ended up catching a press screening a couple days before opening night. I liked it as much as CR from the get-go, although I still felt that blurry opening shot was an astonishingly horrid and unforgivable excuse to put the GB at the end. Knocked down one entire star for that decision alone.
I remember feeling the bold move to make the entire plot center around M's demise, Silva's revenge, and bringing Bond's childhood into it might make future Bond films a bit more difficult to script in the Craig era. At the time it was confirmed he would be in 2 more, and my opinion was, Eon would have to continue in this tone for future Craig's to work. That could open the doors for several Fleming scenarios so far avoided: the opening to TMWTGG novel for instance, an adaptation of YOLT, even I could see Craig doing a version of TSWLM novel and so forth.
SF was so huge it felt the series was at a peak since Connery. It even won a couple Oscars!
Then came SP. I was thrilled that Blofeld was going to be re introduced. Maybe we'd finally get the Blofeld of the books?
The initial trailer looked like we were going to get another intense entry.
Then the negativity kicked in: from early internet announcements that SP would be Craig's last, to countless "Idris needs to be Bond" articles. Effing A! There was even an entire day where "Roger Moore is a racist" was posted all over facebook. Not cool. Then came the wrist slashing comment (which to be honest is the type of joke I actually might make in a similar situation). However that led to "actor Daniel Craig quits Bond is considering suicide"type headlines. All this negativity impacted my enjoyment of SP when it was finally released. In addition the luke warm reception, the 3rd act brother angle, and Newman's amazingly lazy score made me question the series' future. SP , although there is much I love about the film itself, is the first time I left the cinema feeling the next film whenever it may be, will probably end the franchise.....unless some serious planning goes into the future of Bond. I actually felt there was now a distinct possibility that the filmmakers could actually screw B25 up so bad it ends up being the last one. I had never felt that way about this beloved franchise before.
Now- we are a full year since SP, and so far there has been nothing whatsoever to report on another film...except maybe Craig might come back. He is still Eon's first choice. I'd love to think Barbara and Michael have been using this time to sort out the future of Bond, and the next one will secure the feeling the series has several more films ahead.

KDevereaux · October 2016

What I enjoyed most in SF was that Craig’s Bond is humanized. After being shot he begins to question his role as an MI6 agent. After Bond returns he discovers that he is not the invincible agent he once believed he was, failing during his qualification testing, and in being broken, rebuilds and redeems himself once he is reassigned to fieldwork. In QOS M question’s if he is still her agent, in SF Bond proves that he still has faith even after being sacrificed by M.

walther p99 · October 2016

SP , although there is much I love about the film itself, is the first time I left the cinema feeling the next film whenever it may be, will probably end the franchise.....unless some serious planning goes into the future of Bond.

I felt the same way, after SF's ending I was so thrilled about what the future had in store for Bond, and the first 10-15 minutes of SP mostly delivered that. But ultimately I left the theater feeling like "eh, would be ok if they didn't make another Bond for awhile."

Your retrospective on Skyfall and Spectre

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