I have worked with conscript armies and you can see the motivation (or lack of in some cases) is visibly different That is not meant in any way as a disrespectful comment to any such armies, just what I have personally witnessed and I am sure it does not apply to all.
Be that as it may, but local conditions apply; in Finland between low 80% to high 70% of age group take part in the military service, the highest dropout group are the medically exempt. With all the possibilities for dropping out, I'd go as far as call it a volunteer army. Also current system has a very high, over 80% approval rating among population in Finland, so high in fact, that it is a factor on the strong sentiment against NATO. People feel that if Finland joins NATO, our trusty high value conscript army will be replaced with an expensive "Chavs Army". Only our police force gets higher approval rating at a whopping 96% of the population giving cops a "highly trustworthy" or "somewhat trustworthy" grade.
"I mean, she almost kills bond...with her ass."
-Mr Arlington Beech
I usually don't show myself this clearly in my main uniform on the internet, but consider this the exception to the rule. I'd be interested to know what kind of uniforms you guys wear or were wearing, maybe there's some links to stock photos on the internet?
Picture from TODAY and FINALLY FEELING BETTER! Remember, it's up and down, but today was the best day so far.
I got many ribbons for this and that. This ribbon is forhaving reached 950 daysof active service, got this in 2011, I have become a full-time army officer since then.
"The Bomb" insignia for Grenadiers, small tag shows I'm specialised in hand-to-hand combat and combat with weapons.
Throw in geo tagging, social media and other PR stories about unit activities etc and like I said most people can be traced these days by those who have the tech, time and inclination. I recently demonstrated to my team how a post on social media lead me to look at other posts of the same person, pick up their fitness score they had posted, linked that to my paperwork and identify them (and the fact they thought the Section Commander was a ****!, from another post).
Needless to say I notified said miscrent on parade with the old one step forward if you use social media, two steps forward if you think your section commander is a **** (no one moved) and then yes ‘you‘ as I ponted him out - I believe wide mouthed frog is the expression! I then left it to his Section Comd to have a chat with him on personal security, social media and no doubt expressing opinions in public!
Like I said a lesson for us all!
Cheers :007)
My name is Bond, Basildon Bond - I have letters after my name!
I was surprised by this - one of the bases mentioned is in Afghanistan; when I was there we were prohibited from using mobile phones or anything with a 3G signal so anything like Strava was not even a consideration
To keep track we drove the route in a a van afterwards to measure the distance then did the maths using time and distance.
I usually don't show myself this clearly in my main uniform on the internet, but consider this the exception to the rule. I'd be interested to know what kind of uniforms you guys wear or were wearing, maybe there's some links to stock photos on the internet?
Picture from TODAY and FINALLY FEELING BETTER! Remember, it's up and down, but today was the best day so far.
I got many ribbons for this and that. This ribbon is forhaving reached 950 daysof active service, got this in 2011, I have become a full-time army officer since then.
"The Bomb" insignia for Grenadiers, small tag shows I'm specialised in hand-to-hand combat and combat with weapons.
There are no photos left from my military service, but I found some photos online to show my uniform ec.
(not me, but the uniform and equipment is the same)
The "button tent" - everyone carried one piece. When we stopped we buttoned the pieces together and made a tent. These tents could get pretty big. The individual pieces could also be used for camouflage or ponchoes.
We spent a lot of time building Baily-bridges. These are from WWII and are sets that can be assembled to the length you want and can carry tanks. The helmets are modern, but the rest looks very familiar to me:
Skiing was a large part of the service, even in a combat engineer unit:
Is the Button Tent/Button clothes Tent something any of you have experienced?
In the 80’s we had the poncho a spare piece of waterproof nylon you could wear or sleep under. Only issue was to wear it they put a damn great hole in the middle (with a hood). At least the Basha now in use has no hole or hood, just handles to use as a stretcher in an emergency! (I would rather walk)
Cheers :007)
My name is Bond, Basildon Bond - I have letters after my name!
Is the Button Tent/Button clothes Tent something any of you have experienced?
In the 80’s we had the poncho a spare piece of waterproof nylon you could wear or sleep under. Only issue was to wear it they put a damn great hole in the middle wit( a hood. At least the Basra now in use had no hole or hood, just handles to use as a stretcher in an emergency!
Cheers :007)
I still have a maggot sleeping bag that the poncho attached to I love the 70's and early 80's kit -{
In the 80’s we had the poncho a spare piece of waterproof nylon you could wear or sleep under. Only issue was to wear it they put a damn great hole in the middle wit( a hood. At least the Basra now in use had no hole or hood, just handles to use as a stretcher in an emergency!
Cheers :007)
I still have a maggot sleeping bag that the poncho attached to I love the 70's and early 80's kit -{
Yeah never did that but the old 58 doss bags were crap most of the feathers had departed many years before leaving two layers of nylon with sod all insulation, the waterproof base wasn’t and the cover once rolled up was useless so you had to bin bag it when on top of your large pack (that was small). Throw in DMS boots and puttees with double lined combats that were not waterproof with a tin helmet on elastic chin strap - and well you were nails on those NATO exercises!
Thank god for progress!
Funny thing the Jersey Heavy Wool (that often shrank) is making a resurgence and I still have one of those from back in the day - history repeats and all that (just waiting for them to bring back DPM and Black Boots before I retire)
And the kids these days think they have it tough!
Cheers :007)
My name is Bond, Basildon Bond - I have letters after my name!
I still have a maggot sleeping bag that the poncho attached to I love the 70's and early 80's kit -{
Yeah never did that but the old 58 doss bags were crap most of the feathers had departed many years before leaving two layers of nylon with sod all insulation, the waterproof base wasn’t and the cover once rolled up was useless so you had to bin bag it when on top of your large pack (that was small). Throw in DMS boots and puttees with double lined combats that were not waterproof with a tin helmet on elastic chin strap - and well you were nails on those NATO exercises!
Thank god for progress!
Funny thing the Jersey Heavy Wool (that often shrank) is making a resurgence and I still have one of those from back in the day - history repeats and all that (just waiting for them to bring back DPM and Black Boots before I retire)
And the kids these days think they have it tough!
Cheers :007)
My 58 patt bag is brand new , I agree that the kit got better I do like the 68patt kit though, those elephant ear 85 patt combats were total crap, the 90 and 95 patt stuff was a great improvement and soldier 2000 and peacoc were the bollocks, but I do have a soft spot for DPM, though im sure the MTP has its uses.
Yeah never did that but the old 58 doss bags were crap most of the feathers had departed many years before leaving two layers of nylon with sod all insulation, the waterproof base wasn’t and the cover once rolled up was useless so you had to bin bag it when on top of your large pack (that was small). Throw in DMS boots and puttees with double lined combats that were not waterproof with a tin helmet on elastic chin strap - and well you were nails on those NATO exercises!
Thank god for progress!
Funny thing the Jersey Heavy Wool (that often shrank) is making a resurgence and I still have one of those from back in the day - history repeats and all that (just waiting for them to bring back DPM and Black Boots before I retire)
And the kids these days think they have it tough!
Cheers :007)
My 58 patt bag is brand new , I agree that the kit got better I do like the 68patt kit though, those elephant ear 85 patt combats were total crap, the 90 and 95 patt stuff was a great improvement and soldier 2000 and peacoc were the bollocks, but I do have a soft spot for DPM, though im sure the MTP has its uses.
Yeah my loft is a history of issued kit 1980 to current day (I could start a museum).
People even walk past at boot sales when I try to get rid of the DPM! (though anglers seem to love it, fish must be blind)
MTP hmm well you had DPM and Des DPM so combine the (two too save money) and you get MTP though the scientists say it’s the best in class - only made by the cheapest contractor! (execpt for the Altbergs).
Laying system my arrse wrap me in Wool with Shirt KF and JHW anytime!
Cheers
My name is Bond, Basildon Bond - I have letters after my name!
MTP is as you know developed by CRY with the American Multicam, I think all NATO forces will end up wearing this type of cammo. obviously you would know better than me
Have you by any chance got a 70's/80's SAS windproof ? I have an early 70's Artic one just not the SAS one 170/104 or a size 3
KF were sandpaper on the nipples the Ben Sherman ones were much more comfortable, just didnt hold their colour.
MTP is as you know developed by CRY with the American Multicam, I think all NATO forces will end up wearing this type of cammo. obviously you would know better than me
Have you by any chance got a 70's/80's SAS windproof ? I have an early 70's Artic one just not the SAS one 170/104 or a size 3
KF were sandpaper on the nipples the Ben Sherman ones were much more comfortable, just didnt hold their colour.
Ah the old SAS smock I remember the days, when everyone came back from Brecon in SAS smocks, Norwegian Army shirts, junglies and Danner Boots - it sent the old crusty Sgt Maj’s appaplectic But any **** ca be uncomfortable and it was way better than the issue kit at the time on my first visit I had the old plastic waterproofs you sweat more on the inside than ever got wet on the outside (remember my first Goretex it was heaven). SAS Bergans were all the rage thanks to Lewis Collins better than a large pack any day except for the twonks that is who carried the frame as well and they did a mini version for the small dudes
Back then you bought your own, now we get it all issued and the guys still go out and buy ‘Ali’ kit, soldiers and their money easily parted! Of course kit wise things have moved on drastically after the last nearly two decades (you need a PhD these days to work out how to lace your boots x you even get instructions!).
Fortunately I saw MTP coming so sold all my Gucci DPM kit to local cadets instrs who were going to be some years behind the rest before they got the upgrade But I can ask around - now with MTP you just cannot give it away I see builders in it in better condition than mine!
Cheers :007)
P.S Yes when everyone is wearing Cry how the hell will we tell the bad boys then
My name is Bond, Basildon Bond - I have letters after my name!
MTP is as you know developed by CRY with the American Multicam, I think all NATO forces will end up wearing this type of cammo. obviously you would know better than me
Have you by any chance got a 70's/80's SAS windproof ? I have an early 70's Artic one just not the SAS one 170/104 or a size 3
KF were sandpaper on the nipples the Ben Sherman ones were much more comfortable, just didnt hold their colour.
Ah the old SAS smock I remember the days, when everyone came back from Brecon in SAS smocks, Norwegian Army shirts, junglies and Danner Boots - it sent the old crusty Sgt Maj’s appaplectic But any **** ca be uncomfortable and it was way better than the issue kit at the time on my first visit I had the old plastic waterproofs you sweat more on the inside than ever got wet on the outside (remember my first Goretex it was heaven). SAS Bergans were all the rage thanks to Lewis Collins better than a large pack any day except for the twonks that is who carried the frame as well and they did a mini version for the small dudes
Back then you bought your own, now we get it all issued and the guys still go out and buy ‘Ali’ kit, soldiers and their money easily parted! Of course kit wise things have moved on drastically after the last nearly two decades (you need a PhD these days to work out how to lace your boots x you even get instructions!).
Fortunately I saw MTP coming so sold all my Gucci DPM kit to local cadets instrs who were going to be some years behind the rest before they got the upgrade But I can ask around - now with MTP you just cannot give it away I see builders in it in better condition than mine!
Cheers :007)
P.S Yes when everyone is wearing Cry how the hell will we tell the bad boys then
Yes, I remember the crisp packet water proofs and the green ones prior to them the smaller SAS Bergans were called G.S. Bergan, I think that they came out of the development of 72patt webbing, like 58 but a nylon version.
Gone are the days of company making kit for the military like CQC, James Smith & Sons, Remploy and alike, its all made in china now, so the bad boys can probably get it before us, that or they will have all of the old stock of DPM
MTP is as you know developed by CRY with the American Multicam, I think all NATO forces will end up wearing this type of cammo. obviously you would know better than me
Have you by any chance got a 70's/80's SAS windproof ? I have an early 70's Artic one just not the SAS one 170/104 or a size 3
KF were sandpaper on the nipples the Ben Sherman ones were much more comfortable, just didnt hold their colour.
Ah the old SAS smock I remember the days, when everyone came back from Brecon in SAS smocks, Norwegian Army shirts, junglies and Danner Boots - it sent the old crusty Sgt Maj’s appaplectic But any **** ca be uncomfortable and it was way better than the issue kit at the time on my first visit I had the old plastic waterproofs you sweat more on the inside than ever got wet on the outside (remember my first Goretex it was heaven). SAS Bergans were all the rage thanks to Lewis Collins better than a large pack any day except for the twonks that is who carried the frame as well and they did a mini version for the small dudes
Back then you bought your own, now we get it all issued and the guys still go out and buy ‘Ali’ kit, soldiers and their money easily parted! Of course kit wise things have moved on drastically after the last nearly two decades (you need a PhD these days to work out how to lace your boots x you even get instructions!).
Fortunately I saw MTP coming so sold all my Gucci DPM kit to local cadets instrs who were going to be some years behind the rest before they got the upgrade But I can ask around - now with MTP you just cannot give it away I see builders in it in better condition than mine!
Cheers :007)
P.S Yes when everyone is wearing Cry how the hell will we tell the bad boys then
Yes, I remember the crisp packet water proofs and the green ones prior to them the smaller SAS Bergans were called G.S. Bergan, I think that they came out of the development of 72patt webbing, like 58 but a nylon version.
Gone are the days of company making kit for the military like CQC, James Smith & Sons, Remploy and alike, its all made in china now, so the bad boys can probably get it before us, that or they will have all of the old stock of DPM
The China connection always makes me smile.
Yeah the green waterproof jackets were NI Issue right just got myself one and they brought out the DPM crisp packets . Typical! (not that it was much of an upgrade). Green became popular for Driil Instrs on the parsed sq.
Various incarnations of webbing as you say, but you could not beat trying to put your mess tins into wet 58 webbing kidney pouches on a cold wet day when it has frozen solid and shrunk!
PLCE was a god send, but I still have a brand new set of 58 in the loft for posterity!
Cheers :007)
My name is Bond, Basildon Bond - I have letters after my name!
PLCE was fit for purpose, but it never softened up like 58, I have a soft spot for 58 but at the time was gaging to get a set of PLCE
My problem with 58, was getting the water bottle back in to the pouch in any weather )
Yeah but the corker was two poncho rolls one with you NBC kit inc boots! (That’s was never going to fit who the hell thought of that). Throw in the full sized shovel or pick and you truly were the modern day Robocop
Then one day I was lucky enough to switch to belt kit with Ammo, SAS and a load of water bottle pouches (feel your pain) and a free bergan mit frame.
Cheers :007)
My name is Bond, Basildon Bond - I have letters after my name!
I usually don't show myself this clearly in my main uniform on the internet, but consider this the exception to the rule. I'd be interested to know what kind of uniforms you guys wear or were wearing, maybe there's some links to stock photos on the internet?
Picture from TODAY and FINALLY FEELING BETTER! Remember, it's up and down, but today was the best day so far.
I got many ribbons for this and that. This ribbon is forhaving reached 950 daysof active service, got this in 2011, I have become a full-time army officer since then.
"The Bomb" insignia for Grenadiers, small tag shows I'm specialised in hand-to-hand combat and combat with weapons.
Jason, out of interest, what is your Combat Jacket made out of ?
Well first I'm glad to say this is is Swiss Product.
Our army clothes are a system really. A 4 Layer System.
Layer 1: The Underwear keeps the skin dry. No chilling while resting due to optimal drying time.
Layer 2: Insulation Layer (Leggins, RollShirt or PoloShirt or T-Shirt). It keeps you warm, temperature control without causing an unwanted, unpleasant heat accumulation effect.
Layer 3: Climate Barrier (Fleece Jacket, Fleece Pullover). It creates an ideal climate. A moisture vent. It's hydrophilic inside (water absorbent) and it's hydrophobic outside (water repellent). No backflow of condensation and an ideal skin temperature is maintained.
The jacket I am wearing in the pic: It's 100% Nylon. It's a 3-Layer laminate with a PTFE membrane (polytetrafluoroethylene). All seems are welded.
Hydrostatic head 20.000mm, permeability to air 5.000 gram/m2. Sorry for that technical jargon. It means it's completely wind- and waterproof.
In general the Swiss Army produces all the army clothing in Switzerland. It's high end quality makes it very expensive therefore. But (I am told) the Swiss Army provides amongst the best army clothing in the world.
The functional underwear we are wearing can be compared to what professional athletes are wearing as sports wear, soccer players for instance under the soccer shirts. Or field and track athletes.
Our shoes KS14 are practically indestructible and you can go anywhere with them. I wear them in the pic where I'm resting with the mountain view on page 10.
Layers is the key to keeping warm in the winter. There are lots of stories of US Marines or Royal Marines on excersises in Norway who put on all their cold weather clothes as soon as they go out the door. The result is sweathing while they walk, making the inner layers soggy. When they stop to rest they freeze because of the wet inner layer, and they have no more clothes to put on. I remember going on long ski marches wearing only a T-shirt, the field shirt and uniform jacket on my upper body. The canteen was carried inside the jacket to keep it warm. The Norwegian field shirt was and is popular among foreign troops visiting the country:
When we stopped everyone put on the field sweather. I have very warm feelings for the "feltgenser" .
In the army it was green, not grey:
The "Anna". To be carried under your winter camouflage trousers.
Designed with an emphasis on staying warm rather than being cool
I also have fond memories for the "foot bag". If you wore them outside your boots you never froze on your feet:
Not all our equipment was good. This is the rucksack we used. It was called the "Ludvig", a reference foreigners are unlikely to get.
It's a model from 1953 and we carried it in 91-92.
One would expect the Norwegian army to issue good skiis, but they don't. We call them NATO-plank. soldiers are the only people to wear wooden skiis in Norway, and the only advantages their sturdieness and the fact that you can wear them on standard field boots:
I mentioned the Sami knife in SABS last night. The Sami knife is standard issue in the special forces units (I think). I was far from SF, but I carried a privately owned one because it's so practical. The blades can be up to nine inches long, so the knives can double as hatchets.
Comments
Be that as it may, but local conditions apply; in Finland between low 80% to high 70% of age group take part in the military service, the highest dropout group are the medically exempt. With all the possibilities for dropping out, I'd go as far as call it a volunteer army. Also current system has a very high, over 80% approval rating among population in Finland, so high in fact, that it is a factor on the strong sentiment against NATO. People feel that if Finland joins NATO, our trusty high value conscript army will be replaced with an expensive "Chavs Army". Only our police force gets higher approval rating at a whopping 96% of the population giving cops a "highly trustworthy" or "somewhat trustworthy" grade.
-Mr Arlington Beech
Picture from TODAY and FINALLY FEELING BETTER! Remember, it's up and down, but today was the best day so far.
I got many ribbons for this and that.
This ribbon is for having reached 950 days of active service, got this in 2011, I have become a full-time army officer since then.
"The Bomb" insignia for Grenadiers, small tag shows I'm specialised in hand-to-hand combat and combat with weapons.
A fitness tracking app, gives away location of secret army bases.
Needless to say I notified said miscrent on parade with the old one step forward if you use social media, two steps forward if you think your section commander is a **** (no one moved) and then yes ‘you‘ as I ponted him out - I believe wide mouthed frog is the expression! I then left it to his Section Comd to have a chat with him on personal security, social media and no doubt expressing opinions in public!
Like I said a lesson for us all!
Cheers :007)
I was surprised by this - one of the bases mentioned is in Afghanistan; when I was there we were prohibited from using mobile phones or anything with a 3G signal so anything like Strava was not even a consideration
To keep track we drove the route in a a van afterwards to measure the distance then did the maths using time and distance.
There are no photos left from my military service, but I found some photos online to show my uniform ec.
(not me, but the uniform and equipment is the same)
The "button tent" - everyone carried one piece. When we stopped we buttoned the pieces together and made a tent. These tents could get pretty big. The individual pieces could also be used for camouflage or ponchoes.
We spent a lot of time building Baily-bridges. These are from WWII and are sets that can be assembled to the length you want and can carry tanks. The helmets are modern, but the rest looks very familiar to me:
Skiing was a large part of the service, even in a combat engineer unit:
The Pontonier Battalion (Bridge Builders) is a proud unit in the Swiss Army. They are incredibly strong and tough.
Skiing, mountaineering and being in the alpine region is a big part of my job too.
Sorry if I have posted these before: a few impressions of my service in the alpine region.
Resting and enjoying the view.
ME proud and thoughful.
ME on the left side.
Doing my usual stunts....
and NO, I'm not on the smartphone in that photo :P I was studying the altimeter!
Is the Button Tent/Button clothes Tent something any of you have experienced?
Cheers :007)
I still have a maggot sleeping bag that the poncho attached to
Thank god for progress!
Funny thing the Jersey Heavy Wool (that often shrank) is making a resurgence and I still have one of those from back in the day - history repeats and all that (just waiting for them to bring back DPM and Black Boots before I retire)
And the kids these days think they have it tough!
Cheers :007)
My 58 patt bag is brand new
People even walk past at boot sales when I try to get rid of the DPM! (though anglers seem to love it, fish must be blind)
MTP hmm well you had DPM and Des DPM so combine the (two too save money) and you get MTP though the scientists say it’s the best in class - only made by the cheapest contractor! (execpt for the Altbergs).
Laying system my arrse wrap me in Wool with Shirt KF and JHW anytime!
Cheers
Have you by any chance got a 70's/80's SAS windproof ? I have an early 70's Artic one just not the SAS one 170/104 or a size 3
KF were sandpaper on the nipples
Back then you bought your own, now we get it all issued and the guys still go out and buy ‘Ali’ kit, soldiers and their money easily parted! Of course kit wise things have moved on drastically after the last nearly two decades (you need a PhD these days to work out how to lace your boots x you even get instructions!).
Fortunately I saw MTP coming so sold all my Gucci DPM kit to local cadets instrs who were going to be some years behind the rest before they got the upgrade
Cheers :007)
P.S Yes when everyone is wearing Cry how the hell will we tell the bad boys then
Yes, I remember the crisp packet water proofs and the green ones prior to them
Gone are the days of company making kit for the military like CQC, James Smith & Sons, Remploy and alike, its all made in china now, so the bad boys can probably get it before us, that or they will have all of the old stock of DPM
Yeah the green waterproof jackets were NI Issue right just got myself one and they brought out the DPM crisp packets . Typical! (not that it was much of an upgrade). Green became popular for Driil Instrs on the parsed sq.
Various incarnations of webbing as you say, but you could not beat trying to put your mess tins into wet 58 webbing kidney pouches on a cold wet day when it has frozen solid and shrunk!
PLCE was a god send, but I still have a brand new set of 58 in the loft for posterity!
Cheers :007)
My problem with 58, was getting the water bottle back in to the pouch in any weather
Then one day I was lucky enough to switch to belt kit with Ammo, SAS and a load of water bottle pouches (feel your pain) and a free bergan mit frame.
Cheers :007)
Jason, out of interest, what is your Combat Jacket made out of ?
Our army clothes are a system really. A 4 Layer System.
Layer 1: The Underwear keeps the skin dry. No chilling while resting due to optimal drying time.
Layer 2: Insulation Layer (Leggins, RollShirt or PoloShirt or T-Shirt). It keeps you warm, temperature control without causing an unwanted, unpleasant heat accumulation effect.
Layer 3: Climate Barrier (Fleece Jacket, Fleece Pullover). It creates an ideal climate. A moisture vent. It's hydrophilic inside (water absorbent) and it's hydrophobic outside (water repellent). No backflow of condensation and an ideal skin temperature is maintained.
Level 4: Uniform Jacket (or trousers). Weather Protection.
The jacket I am wearing in the pic:
It's 100% Nylon. It's a 3-Layer laminate with a PTFE membrane (polytetrafluoroethylene). All seems are welded.
Hydrostatic head 20.000mm, permeability to air 5.000 gram/m2. Sorry for that technical jargon. It means it's completely wind- and waterproof.
In general the Swiss Army produces all the army clothing in Switzerland. It's high end quality makes it very expensive therefore. But (I am told) the Swiss Army provides amongst the best army clothing in the world.
The functional underwear we are wearing can be compared to what professional athletes are wearing as sports wear, soccer players for instance under the soccer shirts. Or field and track athletes.
Our shoes KS14 are practically indestructible and you can go anywhere with them. I wear them in the pic where I'm resting with the mountain view on page 10.
When we stopped everyone put on the field sweather. I have very warm feelings for the "feltgenser"
In the army it was green, not grey:
The "Anna". To be carried under your winter camouflage trousers.
Designed with an emphasis on staying warm rather than being cool
I also have fond memories for the "foot bag". If you wore them outside your boots you never froze on your feet:
It's a model from 1953 and we carried it in 91-92.
One would expect the Norwegian army to issue good skiis, but they don't. We call them NATO-plank. soldiers are the only people to wear wooden skiis in Norway, and the only advantages their sturdieness and the fact that you can wear them on standard field boots:
Bond Book " Icebreaker "
Despite the look of the knife the Sami knife isn't seen as a fighting knife BTW.
Lapland it is described as one of the items his
Contacts use ?