The last Bond movies I watched were the Daniel Craig series. I saw them in order while visiting a friend weekly.
I love the reboot. Craig is such a charming actor and he plays a perfect Bond for this new timeline. My favourite fight is in Spectre with Hinx on the train. Other highlights include the death of Dench's M, the fight with Dominic Green and the whole story line involving Mr. White.
We finished off the films over the past couple of day.
SKYFALL:
I've always been kinda lukewarm on this one. It's certainly a well made move but I've never found it to be particularly gripping. This time, it all kinda clicked for some reason. I still don't think that it's particularly tense or has any real standout action sequences to it (although the pre-credit sequence is pretty good), but the plot does a good job of engaging you and making you care about the characters and what happens to them.
There's a lot to admire here:
- The acting is first rate from everyone, even the minor roles. The actress who played Severine is particularly strong, especially in the 'Can you kill him? Will you kill him?' bar scene. But it's really Craig, Dench, and Bardem who carry the film on their shoulders and make this thing work through sheer talent.
- The cinematography here is amazing. That's what happens when you get Roger Deakins behind the camera, though. This is probably the best 'looking' of the Bond franchise.
- The locations are really exotic. I've been to Macau before and it's glorious, but I never got to ride a boat through paper lanterns into a casino. Now I want to go back and try and find that place. Istanbul, Scotland, all of the places are really well utilized.
- The score is excellent, and the theme song is one of the better ones. I like David Arnold but I think that I prefer the Thomas Newman work here over anything that Arnold put out.
- The fashion/styling is excellent with a lot of memorable outfits. QOS is still the top film for fashion but this one is up there.
But I have some issues:
- I'm sorry, but Daniel Craig has a terrible haircut in this film. It's much too short and really doesn't suit him at all. I found it distracting.
- There's really very little tension in the movie. The pre-credit sequence comes the closest to generating some tension/thrills but that's really about it. None of the other ones have that oomph to make them standout. That's not to say that they are poorly done or anything, but they're missing that zing to make them really work or stand out.
- Dench drops the F-bomb. I hated this. I don't mind the occasional profanity in these movies but the F-bomb is a bridge too far. Bond films should be above this.
- The whole 'getting captured was part of the plan' trope needs to go away. I'm sick of this plot device being used over and over again. Bardem makes it work through sheer force of will but regardless, it stretches credulity.
It's a very good movie. I'm not sure if it's a particularly good BOND movie, but it's a very solid film in and of itself.
And then, there's SPECTRE.
The fashion is good here, the pre-credits sequence is pretty solid, and the train fight with Hinx is really spectacular. That's about it in terms of positive things to cite. The film is a complete bore. All of my issues with SKYFALL being a passive, tension free experience are amplified here. The only time that the film feels like a Bond film is in that fantastic train fight, which does a great job of injecting some much needed energy into this rather laborious, tedious film.
The plot never engages, and it asks the audience to buy into some rather ludicrous storytelling in order to even work (especially with the Cuckoo/Brother bit). I don't find that Bond and Swann have any chemistry whatsoever, and I also don't buy that...over the course of a few days...he'd fall in love with her to the point of dropping his job. It worked in OHMSS but completely did not here.
The action sequences, train fight aside, are dull and lifeless. The airplane sequence in the snow is uninspiring, and the car chase feels like a casual drive through downtown in a couple of sports cars. We should have had something akin to the car chases in RONIN here.
The film feels like a MISSION: IMPOSSIBLE movie instead of a Bond film. By the third act, Bond is working as a team with M, Q, and Moneypenny. This is wrong-headed for a Bond film. The focus needs to be on Bond, not on the secondary characters doing their own thing.
The music is good (another solid Thomas Newman score) but hoo boy is that title song terrible. I don't want some weepy, emo garbage that doesn't have any balls to it.
I really hope that Craig rebounds with a winner for Bond 25 because I'm now of the opinion that SPECTRE is one of the worst films of the franchise.
Final re-watch rankings:
OHMSS>FRWL>CR>TSWLM>YOLT>MR>TLD>SF>GE>OP>DN>FYEO>
TWINE>TND>QOS>TB>TMWTGG>GF>LALD>SP>DAF>LTK>AVTAK>DAD
I can agree with everything you said about SF apart from Newman being better than Arnold. We have a very similar opinion on SP. Only it's dead last in my ranking.
-{
I beg to differ for SPECTRE but I do agree about Skyfall, as of late I want to revisit it and it's actually better for me after 3 or so viewings. Guess it's one of those films.
Also, about the locations, none of it was actually filmed in China (the rooftop of the London 4 Seasons and the Macau casino is a reference to a casino that once existed but doesn't anymore). While I think I made a thread about this because I thought it fooled me really well, most people that had visited Hong Kong didn't and held the film in a lower regard because of that.
I've always been kinda lukewarm on this one. It's certainly a well made move but I've never found it to be particularly gripping. This time, it all kinda clicked for some reason. I still don't think that it's particularly tense or has any real standout action sequences to it (although the pre-credit sequence is pretty good), but the plot does a good job of engaging you and making you care about the characters and what happens to them.
There's a lot to admire here:
- The acting is first rate from everyone, even the minor roles. The actress who played Severine is particularly strong, especially in the 'Can you kill him? Will you kill him?' bar scene. But it's really Craig, Dench, and Bardem who carry the film on their shoulders and make this thing work through sheer talent.
- The cinematography here is amazing. That's what happens when you get Roger Deakins behind the camera, though. This is probably the best 'looking' of the Bond franchise.
- The locations are really exotic. I've been to Macau before and it's glorious, but I never got to ride a boat through paper lanterns into a casino. Now I want to go back and try and find that place. Istanbul, Scotland, all of the places are really well utilized.
- The score is excellent, and the theme song is one of the better ones. I like David Arnold but I think that I prefer the Thomas Newman work here over anything that Arnold put out.
- The fashion/styling is excellent with a lot of memorable outfits. QOS is still the top film for fashion but this one is up there.
But I have some issues:
- I'm sorry, but Daniel Craig has a terrible haircut in this film. It's much too short and really doesn't suit him at all. I found it distracting.
- There's really very little tension in the movie. The pre-credit sequence comes the closest to generating some tension/thrills but that's really about it. None of the other ones have that oomph to make them standout. That's not to say that they are poorly done or anything, but they're missing that zing to make them really work or stand out.
- Dench drops the F-bomb. I hated this. I don't mind the occasional profanity in these movies but the F-bomb is a bridge too far. Bond films should be above this.
- The whole 'getting captured was part of the plan' trope needs to go away. I'm sick of this plot device being used over and over again. Bardem makes it work through sheer force of will but regardless, it stretches credulity.
It's a very good movie. I'm not sure if it's a particularly good BOND movie, but it's a very solid film in and of itself.
I like SF and agree that it does not feel like a Bond film. I had to come to terms with it being Home Alone 2. All it is missing is turtle doves.
I beg to differ for SPECTRE but I do agree about Skyfall, as of late I want to revisit it and it's actually better for me after 3 or so viewings. Guess it's one of those films.
Also, about the locations, none of it was actually filmed in China (the rooftop of the London 4 Seasons and the Macau casino is a reference to a casino that once existed but doesn't anymore). While I think I made a thread about this because I thought it fooled me really well, most people that had visited Hong Kong didn't and held the film in a lower regard because of that.
I've never been to China or Macau, but I think it looks obvious that all of those scenes with actors are filmed on sets. But there was something filmed in China: the establishing shots.
Last night I watched an episode of The Saint with Roger Moore and Eunice Gayson. That should count for something.
It was from 1965 and called The Saint Bids Diamonds. It was one of the best episodes I have seen so far and I highly recommend it. Roger goes undercover and adopts the alias of a well-known diamond cutter. But first he kidnaps him, tortures him, steals and modifys his passport, learns his lingo and impersonates his voice. Reminded me of Bond’s visit with Stromberg except more elaborate and carefully planned out.
My current 10 favorite:
1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
This was one of the episodes to be adapted from an original Leslie Charteris story (the later ones were written directly for TV) and is all the better for it. When reading the novels it's always Roger Moore that I see as Templar, I think he's perfectly cast in this role.
This was one of the episodes to be adapted from an original Leslie Charteris story (the later ones were written directly for TV) and is all the better for it. When reading the novels it's always Roger Moore that I see as Templar, I think he's perfectly cast in this role.
Last night I watched a Saint episode The Lawless Lady which featured two other Bond alumni: Julian Glover (who I barely recognized) and Stuart Sanders who plays the Major in Octopussy.
Also watched The Rock starring Sean Connery so I hope it's okay to mention it in this thread. There were a few moments in the film that reminded me directly of Lewis Gilbert era Bond:
-Cage's character Dr. Goodspeed perhaps a nod to Dr. Goodhead in MR.
-The scene in the beginning where they drop the nerve gas and the henchmen suffer the horrible consequences. That is an effective storytelling device to demonstrate the power of the villain's weapon and this also seems to originate from MR.
-The final attack on Alcatraz by the F-18s where the good guys are in danger of being vaporized by the upper level management could be traced back to TSWLM where Capt Carter is ordered to fire on Atlantis while Bond is still on there.
At any rate I am definitely looking forward to revisiting Gilbert's Bond trilogy as they include my favorites in the series. -{
My current 10 favorite:
1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
Firemass I agree when you've run out of Bond movies to watch, Roger's Saint series is the next best thing to satisfy that craving,
...but theres an existing Avengers & Saint thread that's about to disappear off the first page of the General Chat section: https://ajb007.co.uk/topic/49554/itvs-the-avengers-the-new-avengers-the-saint-return-of-the-saint/
You should add some content there while you're watching these episodes.
Of course the OP has been removed from active duty, but it was a good thread and I was learning a lot from the posts there, so we should not let it disappear, especially not now you're in a Saint mood.
Watching The Saint is always a pleasure, and as alluded to above watching the list of actors who had either appeared in Bond movies or would later appear is a bonus. It was there that Roger Moore got a taste for directing (several times here, a couple of times with The Persuaders), met or was re-introduced to several Bond regulars and perhaps most importantly became used to being the centre of attention in a franchise. It has always been a fashion (led by the man himself) to knock his abilities as an actor but this (rather than Bond, and I am a fan) is his shining hour- the right man in the right part.
Before him George Sanders just played George Sanders (fine in itself, he was an under-rated presence) and his brother Tom Conway simply played Simon Templar as Sanders would have (some would argue in the same way that Lazenby played Connery rather than Bond) and after him Ian Ogilvy etc tried to be Moore rather than Templar.
Watching The Saint is always a pleasure, and as alluded to above watching the list of actors who had either appeared in Bond movies or would later appear is a bonus. It was there that Roger Moore got a taste for directing (several times here, a couple of times with The Persuaders), met or was re-introduced to several Bond regulars and perhaps most importantly became used to being the centre of attention in a franchise. It has always been a fashion (led by the man himself) to knock his abilities as an actor but this (rather than Bond, and I am a fan) is his shining hour- the right man in the right part.
Before him George Sanders just played George Sanders (fine in itself, he was an under-rated presence) and his brother Tom Conway simply played Simon Templar as Sanders would have (some would argue in the same way that Lazenby played Connery rather than Bond) and after him Ian Ogilvy etc tried to be Moore rather than Templar.
I really agree that Lazenby attempted to play Connery playing Bond. For me though it was his failure to quite pull it off (despite a truly creditable effort ) that revealed a vulnerability that suited OHMSS perfectly. His youth and vigour really shone through. Much as I would love to see a Connery interpretation in my alt Bond universe I suspect that he would have brought some things and lost others. Equally Lazenby in LALD could have been Fab with some of the rough edges smoothed out and increased confidence (although personally it is my favourite performance of Moore as Bond.
Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
I think Quantum... may work better when viewed directly following ...Casino.
I've started to think Casino... is really two films, two nearly discrete stories, bound together like a double feature.
The first story ends when M meets Bond outside the hotel in Bahamas, and assigns him the mission vs le Chiffre.
The second story begins on the train when Bond meets Vesper.
The second half works almost entirely on its own, except we need to see that previous scene to know what the mission is. But I think itd be comprehensible without seeing that scene.
The first half is almost completely unrelated, but the last scene sets up the second half. Like a cliffhanger or a teaser for next week's episode. And of course the last scene of the whole film sets up Quantum... .
Almost like two stories in an ongoing serial, and Quantum..., beginning as it does, and being quite short, is quite naturally the third part.
Skyfall, apparently taking place many years later, does not fit this pattern.
I've started to think Casino... is really two films, two nearly discrete stories, bound together like a double feature.
The first story ends when M meets Bond outside the hotel in Bahamas, and assigns him the mission vs le Chiffre.
The second story begins on the train when Bond meets Vesper.
The second half works almost entirely on its own, except we need to see that previous scene to know what the mission is. But I think itd be comprehensible without seeing that scene.
The first half is almost completely unrelated, but the last scene sets up the second half. Like a cliffhanger or a teaser for next week's episode. And of course the last scene of the whole film sets up Quantum... .
Almost like two stories in an ongoing serial.
Could this be because the second half is taken reasonably faithfully from the book, while the first half isn't?
Could this be because the second half is taken reasonably faithfully from the book, while the first half isn't?
absolutely boss, the second half is Fleming's novel.
The first half is a type of prequel setting up the events of that novel.
There's also a major difference in tone, the first half isn't like anything Fleming would have written.
But if a viewer never even heard of Fleming, they could watch the two halves of the movie as two discrete stories.
Could this be because the second half is taken reasonably faithfully from the book, while the first half isn't?
absolutely boss, the second half is Fleming's novel.
The first half is a type of prequel setting up the events of that novel.
There's also a major difference in tone, the first half isn't like anything Fleming would have written.
But if a viewer never even heard of Fleming, they could watch the two halves of the movie as two discrete stories.
I agree with this. I think it's one of the reasons why I don't care much for Casino Royale. Because of this it feels awkwardly paced, and the setup doesn't fit with the tone of the Fleming material. It's like there's an action film tacked onto the front of the Fleming story.
I wonder what most normal people thought was going on during the opening scenes of Quantum... ?
not obsessives like us, but civilians who had not watched Casino... since it was released two years previous
I bet if you asked a statistical sample how Casino... ended, the vast majority would have said "Bond and Vesper are in a life-raft, of course! Bond tells a naughty sex-pun, then the credits roll. Luv those Bond films, seen all of 'em I 'ave"
the beginning of Quantum... would have made no sense to a normal well adjusted person
whereas if you split Casino... neatly in two, I think the second half would have easily stood on its own
I do think CR would have worked as a TV three-parter, introduce Vesper briefly in part one, so the sense of betrayal is there at the end.
OHMSS.
The best of Bonds, the worst of Bonds. Last night, it felt like the worst and I only got half way through. It just doesn't work, all I could think was how much better Connery would have been saying those lines. Just one moment, such as when he walks up the Piz Gloria staircase and stands looking like an amused puffed up parrot as he clocks the girls for the first time... with Connery that would have been a prize moment of comic genius, his expression of surprise and comedy shared with the audience. Here you can see what Lazenby is trying to do... someone wrote on this forum that Hunt's direction in this area doesn't help and I agree there.
The scene where Draco explains Tracey's backstory is key, but it is the most boring scene in the entire history of the Bonds.
The script is written to be emotionally engaging, and it just isn't. When Bond gets repeatedly beaten up in his courting of Tracey, it's meant to feel 'treat 'em mean, keep 'em keen', sort of provocative, and it would be if Tracey were played by someone more obviously sexual. Rigg I fancy in The Avengers, but not here and it always feels like she's superior to Bond. I can't imagine her playing opposite Connery either (and she was only cast to counter Lazenby's lack of star power and acting ability anyway). The whole thing is just awkward.
I was curious to watch it after reading through the thread 'Which movie showcased the darkest side of Brosnan?' and there are several references to the killing of Elektra King. For the life of me I couldn't remember the scene and the main reason for that is I'd never actually seen the movie. I thought I'd seen every Bond film several times (at least most of them), except Spectre which I still haven't seen (shame on me) but this one I couldn't recall at all. I remembered the boat chase (and that is all) that was early on but after that it was a brand new Bond film. So initially when I first started to watch it (don't ask me when), after about the first 10 - 15 minutes I either went out, went to bed or had a severe attack of amnesia. I do remember the other Brosnan Bonds quite well though. TND I thought was very good, GE I could take or leave and DAD someone would have to pay me to watch again.
Anyway I thought TWINE was a very good film and would be alongside TND as my pick of the Brosnan Bond films. I like Brosnan as Bond and in my opinion has surpassed Craig as my favourite Bond behind Connery. As for the Elektra King kill - yes it was dark and brutal. Not sure if it was necessary but it definitely showed the colder side of Bond. Probably did her a favour; life in jail or death? I think I'd take the latter.
Overall I enjoyed the film but I won't rank it as if I still have amnesia I won't know where I put it. As for Spectre, well it only took me 19 years to watch TWINE after it was released so I'll most likely get around to watching it in the year 2034.
"Everyone knows rock n' roll attained perfection in 1974; It's a scientific fact". - Homer J Simpson
Rigg I fancy in The Avengers, but not here and it always feels like she's superior to Bond. I can't imagine her playing opposite Connery either (and she was only cast to counter Lazenby's lack of star power and acting ability anyway).
one cruel review I read said they shoulda just got Diana Rigg to play James Bond. And now that I've worked my way though her two seasons of The Avengers, I think she was much more entertaining in that show ... even with the role of such a key BondGirl, the part doesn't really give her much to do, whereas every single episode of her own show she was dressing mod and cracking jokes and doing serious physical damage to the bad guys.
I watched TWINE last night.
I was curious to watch it after reading through the thread 'Which movie showcased the darkest side of Brosnan?' and there are several references to the killing of Elektra King.
...
As for the Elektra King kill - yes it was dark and brutal. Not sure if it was necessary but it definitely showed the colder side of Bond. Probably did her a favour; life in jail or death? I think I'd take the latter.
I'm sorry we all spoiled the ending for you!
That scene should have played as a shocker, but maybe it only works if you're going in fresh and don't know what's coming.
You were waiting for that moment because we told you, and it couldn't possibly live up to your expectations.
That does it, all future commentary from me shall be spoiler free. Starting .................................................................................................................................................... now!
I'm sorry we all spoiled the ending for you!
That scene should have played as a shocker, but maybe it only works if you're going in fresh and don't know what's coming.
You were waiting for that moment because we told you, and it couldn't possibly live up to your expectations.
That does it, all future commentary from me shall be spoiler free. Starting .................................................................................................................................................... now!
Hi Mr. potts - no need to apologise, I only have myself to blame. But you're right I was expecting it so it came as no surprise.
Sometimes it's unavoidable to read something that would be regarded as a spoiler. If someone were to start reading the Fleming novels it would be best not to read the reviews so it's an entirely new adventure. YOLT (the novel) was a cracker for me when I eventually read it as I found it much better than the film and the ending I'll keep to myself just in case. It will be the same when I eventually watch Spectre. I've avoided reading as much as possible about the film so the majority of it will be a surprise but I am aware of one scene that I'm not particularly looking forward to; it involves a handyman's tool that spins rather quickly but I know nothing of the plot, locations etc.
"Everyone knows rock n' roll attained perfection in 1974; It's a scientific fact". - Homer J Simpson
You'd better avoid all reviews of Spectre then - you might find out it features the return of a legendary villainous organisation... )
OHMSS
Deja Vu, but it was on telly last night so I caught it again, it had a better print than my shonky old DVD, and that helped. If you don't care for a Bond film, it's sometimes best to have it on with the sound down and put on a 50s Sinatra LP or Tony Bennett's Around the World vinyl, as I did. {[]
The luge action finale is about the best action scene in all the Bonds. Proper action.
I enjoyed the stock car racing, great fun.
I know Barry is a legend, but his score never achieves the required poignancy or sense of doom needed for a film where
his wife cops it at the end
That's in case OGG007 hasn't seen it! It's a shame, as there's some lovely sad music in The Lion in Winter the previous year, in particular Eleanor's Arrival. There's even more of that sort of thing in YOLT.
OHMSS is a big movie, and really needs a big star like Connery to carry it.
It's unique in that it has Bond going rogue. That was wholly unique back then, and it's interesting that a film that makes a point of him working for Her Majesty's Secret Service can only make that point by having him threaten to resign, or be on leave. It's still unique, despite stuff like LTK and QoS, as it has Bond teaming up with another organisation - bad guys in particular - to take out the enemy. Dalton only pretended to be one of the gang in LTK. Yet despite this, I feel no engagement towards Draco's men even after several viewings, they just don't make an impact (except boom! on Piz Gloria I suppose). There should be a sense of fun and enjoyment to see how the bad guys can be the good guys in another context (Kingsley Amis did a chapter on this in his James Bond Dossier book).
Bond propels himself down a bob run to tackle a vengeful and physically powerful Blofeld, but doesn't bother to track back and finish him off when a branch takes him out, preferring to trade quips with a mountain dog. It's almost like having a clear shot of your nemesis and choosing instead to walk away along Westminster Bridge.
That said, Blofeld anticipated the favour earlier. 'That should be a tomb deep enough for even Bond to be confined to' he says. 'Oh hang on, get the girl. Because if she survived, there's no chance Bond did, him being so much frailer and less athletic.'
That wormy little creep. I'm talking about the bloke we see once, on the curling rink on Piz Gloria, who clocks Bond lining up shags for the night and presumably reports it to Bunt.
Talking of which, she is one of the few villains who never got their comeuppance, after all, she's the one who shot Tracey, not Blowers. The pts of DAF should have had Connery whip off Bunt's bikini top instead! Or maybe that was Bunt - having undergone Blofeld's plastic surgery workshop.
OHMSS is deserving of a full, ~hour long analysis on direction, characters and detail.
I could go on and on about it but I'd also need to study the commentary for extra info. When I have the time to, it should be worth a watch. Expect it to be wildly different in tone and pacing from previous vids (considering it will be an analysis) but the odd joke or two every minute or two should be in there but everyone'll have to wait for a pretty long time.
I saw GF lately before I introduce a friend of mine to the Bonds via it so that we can discuss it in greater detail should he find time to see it. Should be fun. My shortlist of Bonds consists of GF, FRWL, YOLT, OHMSS, TSWLM, LTK, GE and CR.
The Craig era, TB, MR, LALD, TLD, DN (if he wants to know how it all started) and OP should follow suit if he wants to fill in the gaps.
Comments
I love the reboot. Craig is such a charming actor and he plays a perfect Bond for this new timeline. My favourite fight is in Spectre with Hinx on the train. Other highlights include the death of Dench's M, the fight with Dominic Green and the whole story line involving Mr. White.
Check out my Instagram: @livingthebondlife
"I never joke about my work, 007."
-{
Also, about the locations, none of it was actually filmed in China (the rooftop of the London 4 Seasons and the Macau casino is a reference to a casino that once existed but doesn't anymore). While I think I made a thread about this because I thought it fooled me really well, most people that had visited Hong Kong didn't and held the film in a lower regard because of that.
I've never been to China or Macau, but I think it looks obvious that all of those scenes with actors are filmed on sets. But there was something filmed in China: the establishing shots.
It was from 1965 and called The Saint Bids Diamonds. It was one of the best episodes I have seen so far and I highly recommend it. Roger goes undercover and adopts the alias of a well-known diamond cutter. But first he kidnaps him, tortures him, steals and modifys his passport, learns his lingo and impersonates his voice. Reminded me of Bond’s visit with Stromberg except more elaborate and carefully planned out.
1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
That sounds like a great idea -{
1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
Check out my Instagram: @livingthebondlife
"I never joke about my work, 007."
Last night I watched a Saint episode The Lawless Lady which featured two other Bond alumni: Julian Glover (who I barely recognized) and Stuart Sanders who plays the Major in Octopussy.
Also watched The Rock starring Sean Connery so I hope it's okay to mention it in this thread. There were a few moments in the film that reminded me directly of Lewis Gilbert era Bond:
-Cage's character Dr. Goodspeed perhaps a nod to Dr. Goodhead in MR.
-The scene in the beginning where they drop the nerve gas and the henchmen suffer the horrible consequences. That is an effective storytelling device to demonstrate the power of the villain's weapon and this also seems to originate from MR.
-The final attack on Alcatraz by the F-18s where the good guys are in danger of being vaporized by the upper level management could be traced back to TSWLM where Capt Carter is ordered to fire on Atlantis while Bond is still on there.
At any rate I am definitely looking forward to revisiting Gilbert's Bond trilogy as they include my favorites in the series. -{
1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
...but theres an existing Avengers & Saint thread that's about to disappear off the first page of the General Chat section: https://ajb007.co.uk/topic/49554/itvs-the-avengers-the-new-avengers-the-saint-return-of-the-saint/
You should add some content there while you're watching these episodes.
Of course the OP has been removed from active duty, but it was a good thread and I was learning a lot from the posts there, so we should not let it disappear, especially not now you're in a Saint mood.
Before him George Sanders just played George Sanders (fine in itself, he was an under-rated presence) and his brother Tom Conway simply played Simon Templar as Sanders would have (some would argue in the same way that Lazenby played Connery rather than Bond) and after him Ian Ogilvy etc tried to be Moore rather than Templar.
I really agree that Lazenby attempted to play Connery playing Bond. For me though it was his failure to quite pull it off (despite a truly creditable effort ) that revealed a vulnerability that suited OHMSS perfectly. His youth and vigour really shone through. Much as I would love to see a Connery interpretation in my alt Bond universe I suspect that he would have brought some things and lost others. Equally Lazenby in LALD could have been Fab with some of the rough edges smoothed out and increased confidence (although personally it is my favourite performance of Moore as Bond.
I don't get the criticism QOS receives; it's terrific. -{
I've started to think Casino... is really two films, two nearly discrete stories, bound together like a double feature.
The first story ends when M meets Bond outside the hotel in Bahamas, and assigns him the mission vs le Chiffre.
The second story begins on the train when Bond meets Vesper.
The second half works almost entirely on its own, except we need to see that previous scene to know what the mission is. But I think itd be comprehensible without seeing that scene.
The first half is almost completely unrelated, but the last scene sets up the second half. Like a cliffhanger or a teaser for next week's episode. And of course the last scene of the whole film sets up Quantum... .
Almost like two stories in an ongoing serial, and Quantum..., beginning as it does, and being quite short, is quite naturally the third part.
Skyfall, apparently taking place many years later, does not fit this pattern.
Could this be because the second half is taken reasonably faithfully from the book, while the first half isn't?
The first half is a type of prequel setting up the events of that novel.
There's also a major difference in tone, the first half isn't like anything Fleming would have written.
But if a viewer never even heard of Fleming, they could watch the two halves of the movie as two discrete stories.
I agree with this. I think it's one of the reasons why I don't care much for Casino Royale. Because of this it feels awkwardly paced, and the setup doesn't fit with the tone of the Fleming material. It's like there's an action film tacked onto the front of the Fleming story.
not obsessives like us, but civilians who had not watched Casino... since it was released two years previous
I bet if you asked a statistical sample how Casino... ended, the vast majority would have said "Bond and Vesper are in a life-raft, of course! Bond tells a naughty sex-pun, then the credits roll. Luv those Bond films, seen all of 'em I 'ave"
the beginning of Quantum... would have made no sense to a normal well adjusted person
whereas if you split Casino... neatly in two, I think the second half would have easily stood on its own
OHMSS.
The best of Bonds, the worst of Bonds. Last night, it felt like the worst and I only got half way through. It just doesn't work, all I could think was how much better Connery would have been saying those lines. Just one moment, such as when he walks up the Piz Gloria staircase and stands looking like an amused puffed up parrot as he clocks the girls for the first time... with Connery that would have been a prize moment of comic genius, his expression of surprise and comedy shared with the audience. Here you can see what Lazenby is trying to do... someone wrote on this forum that Hunt's direction in this area doesn't help and I agree there.
The scene where Draco explains Tracey's backstory is key, but it is the most boring scene in the entire history of the Bonds.
The script is written to be emotionally engaging, and it just isn't. When Bond gets repeatedly beaten up in his courting of Tracey, it's meant to feel 'treat 'em mean, keep 'em keen', sort of provocative, and it would be if Tracey were played by someone more obviously sexual. Rigg I fancy in The Avengers, but not here and it always feels like she's superior to Bond. I can't imagine her playing opposite Connery either (and she was only cast to counter Lazenby's lack of star power and acting ability anyway). The whole thing is just awkward.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
I was curious to watch it after reading through the thread 'Which movie showcased the darkest side of Brosnan?' and there are several references to the killing of Elektra King. For the life of me I couldn't remember the scene and the main reason for that is I'd never actually seen the movie. I thought I'd seen every Bond film several times (at least most of them), except Spectre which I still haven't seen (shame on me) but this one I couldn't recall at all. I remembered the boat chase (and that is all) that was early on but after that it was a brand new Bond film. So initially when I first started to watch it (don't ask me when), after about the first 10 - 15 minutes I either went out, went to bed or had a severe attack of amnesia. I do remember the other Brosnan Bonds quite well though. TND I thought was very good, GE I could take or leave and DAD someone would have to pay me to watch again.
Anyway I thought TWINE was a very good film and would be alongside TND as my pick of the Brosnan Bond films. I like Brosnan as Bond and in my opinion has surpassed Craig as my favourite Bond behind Connery. As for the Elektra King kill - yes it was dark and brutal. Not sure if it was necessary but it definitely showed the colder side of Bond. Probably did her a favour; life in jail or death? I think I'd take the latter.
Overall I enjoyed the film but I won't rank it as if I still have amnesia I won't know where I put it. As for Spectre, well it only took me 19 years to watch TWINE after it was released so I'll most likely get around to watching it in the year 2034.
I'm sorry we all spoiled the ending for you!
That scene should have played as a shocker, but maybe it only works if you're going in fresh and don't know what's coming.
You were waiting for that moment because we told you, and it couldn't possibly live up to your expectations.
That does it, all future commentary from me shall be spoiler free. Starting .................................................................................................................................................... now!
Hi Mr. potts - no need to apologise, I only have myself to blame. But you're right I was expecting it so it came as no surprise.
Sometimes it's unavoidable to read something that would be regarded as a spoiler. If someone were to start reading the Fleming novels it would be best not to read the reviews so it's an entirely new adventure. YOLT (the novel) was a cracker for me when I eventually read it as I found it much better than the film and the ending I'll keep to myself just in case. It will be the same when I eventually watch Spectre. I've avoided reading as much as possible about the film so the majority of it will be a surprise but I am aware of one scene that I'm not particularly looking forward to; it involves a handyman's tool that spins rather quickly but I know nothing of the plot, locations etc.
OHMSS
Deja Vu, but it was on telly last night so I caught it again, it had a better print than my shonky old DVD, and that helped. If you don't care for a Bond film, it's sometimes best to have it on with the sound down and put on a 50s Sinatra LP or Tony Bennett's Around the World vinyl, as I did. {[]
The luge action finale is about the best action scene in all the Bonds. Proper action.
I enjoyed the stock car racing, great fun.
I know Barry is a legend, but his score never achieves the required poignancy or sense of doom needed for a film where
OHMSS is a big movie, and really needs a big star like Connery to carry it.
It's unique in that it has Bond going rogue. That was wholly unique back then, and it's interesting that a film that makes a point of him working for Her Majesty's Secret Service can only make that point by having him threaten to resign, or be on leave. It's still unique, despite stuff like LTK and QoS, as it has Bond teaming up with another organisation - bad guys in particular - to take out the enemy. Dalton only pretended to be one of the gang in LTK. Yet despite this, I feel no engagement towards Draco's men even after several viewings, they just don't make an impact (except boom! on Piz Gloria I suppose). There should be a sense of fun and enjoyment to see how the bad guys can be the good guys in another context (Kingsley Amis did a chapter on this in his James Bond Dossier book).
Bond propels himself down a bob run to tackle a vengeful and physically powerful Blofeld, but doesn't bother to track back and finish him off when a branch takes him out, preferring to trade quips with a mountain dog. It's almost like having a clear shot of your nemesis and choosing instead to walk away along Westminster Bridge.
That said, Blofeld anticipated the favour earlier. 'That should be a tomb deep enough for even Bond to be confined to' he says. 'Oh hang on, get the girl. Because if she survived, there's no chance Bond did, him being so much frailer and less athletic.'
That wormy little creep. I'm talking about the bloke we see once, on the curling rink on Piz Gloria, who clocks Bond lining up shags for the night and presumably reports it to Bunt.
Talking of which, she is one of the few villains who never got their comeuppance, after all, she's the one who shot Tracey, not Blowers. The pts of DAF should have had Connery whip off Bunt's bikini top instead! Or maybe that was Bunt - having undergone Blofeld's plastic surgery workshop.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
I could go on and on about it but I'd also need to study the commentary for extra info. When I have the time to, it should be worth a watch. Expect it to be wildly different in tone and pacing from previous vids (considering it will be an analysis) but the odd joke or two every minute or two should be in there but everyone'll have to wait for a pretty long time.
I saw GF lately before I introduce a friend of mine to the Bonds via it so that we can discuss it in greater detail should he find time to see it. Should be fun. My shortlist of Bonds consists of GF, FRWL, YOLT, OHMSS, TSWLM, LTK, GE and CR.
The Craig era, TB, MR, LALD, TLD, DN (if he wants to know how it all started) and OP should follow suit if he wants to fill in the gaps.