If one assumes that the size of the pattern doesn't change with the sizes, the statement of N.Peal cannot be entirely accurate. I've counted the ribs and put it all into a picture. On the sweaters offered now the shoulder patch is definitely a bit bigger.
By the way, it looks to me as if the drawstring of the screen accurate sweater has the same color as the patches and now it has the color of the fabric. 8-)
I still assume that Daniel Craig's sweater was tailor-made for him but may be the closest match is a size L. Since his sweater is much wider in the shoulder area than the size M, I would guess that the upper part is more like a size XL.
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,535MI6 Agent
Hmmmm... I’m not buying it. Their excuse or the jumper for that matter. These patches just look wrong and are a deal breaker for me. I look forward to seeing some pictures of a Size L customer jumper with the correct size patches...
Here’s a good old Navy NATO jumper on which it’s based. They produced hundreds of thousands of these for the Navy, Army, Air Force and Police. They can be bought for £45. Over the years, I never once noticed any of my smaller colleagues with oversized patches. The design was always adjusted for size.
Gang,
Adam and Rebecca (their designer) have heard many emails from me complete with pictures and comparisons. Adam is going to have N.Peal do a review/explanation but the short of it is that the patches are the same size down the size range - patches on the large is same as medium and is the same as the small, etc. So with more material the sweater will look more like it did on Craig....who by the way wore a large. That's why the patches cover more ribs when I wore the small. I looked at my medium and sure enough this is the case....I hope that makes sense, I am doing this in between running to meetings today. But as I mentioned Adam and team will be doing their own explanation.
We will do a full review so it’s all crystal clear
I knew it. Totally called it!
For those that argue that this patch covers more ribs than Craig's, I'd agree wholeheartedly.
The facts of the case are this: We know that the sizes for these public release sweaters go up to an XXL. They made one design across ALL the sizes, from XXS to XXL, and are using that design on all sweaters.
So even if Craig is closer to a large, it doesn't matter. This new shoulder patch pattern is most likely larger than that so it doesn't look too bad on a XXL. But there's the rub- if you want something that looks stylistically normal (nevermind screen accurate), then don't bother unless you're an XL or an XXL.
This kind of reinforces what I said about them cutting corners earlier. Even a disposable fashion brand makes shoulder patches that are proportional to their respective individual sizes.
Definetly returning mine now...
N Peal is a great brand though with excellent customer service, so here's hoping it gets fixed.
Whilst I was requested not to disclose the full details of the email, I feel it quite appropriate to share some aspects of an email I received a couple of weeks from N.Peal:
We have had some delay with production of the Army sweater (the canvas patches and stitching have taken a lot of time)
We wish to ensure we have ample stock when we do launch rather than disappointing customers. We are therefore delaying official launch:
I believe the original VIP release was penciled in for February 10th. I seem to remember reading somewhere N.Peal originally planning an April release and EON pushing for it to be earlier?
"Mr. Beech... or is that Bond? I am a little confused." | IG: @commanderbond_007
This thread has turned to all out absurdity. If you want an “SA” sweater because you’re a serious collector, buy the large. If you want to wear the thing, buy your size and accept the fact that even if it were a perfect match, you’re still not Daniel Craig so it’s not going to look “SA” anyhow! Some of you have lost the plot! )
Whilst I was requested not to disclose the full details of the email, I feel it quite appropriate to share some aspects of an email I received a couple of weeks from N.Peal:
We have had some delay with production of the Army sweater (the canvas patches and stitching have taken a lot of time)
We wish to ensure we have ample stock when we do launch rather than disappointing customers. We are therefore delaying official launch:
I believe the original VIP release was penciled in for February 10th. I seem to remember reading somewhere N.Peal originally planning an April release and EON pushing for it to be earlier?
Interesting, thank you for sharing! I wonder if that did impact their decision to only use one pattern for their patches if they were under pressure to rush production.
This thread has turned to all out absurdity. If you want an “SA” sweater because you’re a serious collector, buy the large. If you want to wear the thing, buy your size and accept the fact that even if it were a perfect match, you’re still not Daniel Craig so it’s not going to look “SA” anyhow! Some of you have lost the plot! )
This thread has turned to all out absurdity. If you want an “SA” sweater because you’re a serious collector, buy the large. If you want to wear the thing, buy your size and accept the fact that even if it were a perfect match, you’re still not Daniel Craig so it’s not going to look “SA” anyhow! Some of you have lost the plot! )
I would have to disagree.
People are upset because the end result (with a one shoulder-patch fits all pattern) is just weird, from an aesthetic point of view, nevermind screen-accuracy.
I made the point before, but imagine a pocket t-shirt. You know, the type where there's a chest pocket on the t-shirt? Okay, well it's like having a t-shirt with the pocket placed dead center on the shirt, instead of on the upper-chest. Dramatic example? Yes. But go ahead and google "sweater with shoulder patch" and see how many oddly scaled shoulder patches exist. This weird overlap is just as dramatic as that t-shirt example.
Okay, I think I figured it out. (firstly, I can't believe I've spent this much time attempting to, but then again I can't shy away from a good challenge that requires detective work)
Facts: Shoulder patches are all the same size. Craig wore a Large. David wore a Small. It all depends on what kind of fit you prefer, relaxed, snug, tight etc. The shoulder width on a size L will be A LOT wider than a size Small.
3 things to note about the Craig poster:
1.) The shoulder width is almost slightly droopy, and certainly not tight-fitting, which supports the idea it's a size L. That fact alone will keep the shoulder patches from appearing too close together like it would on a size Small. Daniel Craig has the luxury of having personal tailors on stand-by to doctor up every piece he wears in these movies, where as David is simply trying an item on straight out of the box or off the rack if you will. Tailored items will always look better.
2.) The Braces, the braces, the braces. They make the neck opening look a lot smaller and may throw off the rib count as well.
3.) The man gets paid mega $ just to work out, so cut David some slack. Of course it looks better on Craig.
That would be all fine and dandy, except for those of us (outside the UK) that already did buy it who are already now out the shipping cost both ways. And the reason why we are even here debating it is because we do like the design and N Peal, but we just don't like that this cutting corners approach has led to a funky (and UNINTENTIONAL)backwards-sweater look.
Anyway, I originally was debating how many sweaters to buy, since this style of sweater is very much in line with my favorite aesthetics, but now, I'm wondering if it'll even be worth buying another sweater from N Peal depending on how they handle this situation. We know that there'll be future runs, so here's hoping that this is just a test release.
And Uncle27, I completely agree. These arguments about rib count are doing us no favors... Well, maybe with the exception of proving that there was one shoulder patch pattern used unscaled across all sizes. But outside of that, rib count doesn't matter. Obviously an XXS will have significantly different rib count than an XXL, otherwise if they did have the same rib count, those would be some huge ribs on the XXS. But yeah, arguing rib count is a bit pedantic.
But ultimately, there's just no getting around the oversized shoulder patches on the mid to lower range of sizes...
Imagine James Bond having this reaction when he opens the box and sees his new jumper....
"Oh, great! The shoulder patches are too close together, I can't possibly wear this! And don't even get me started on the draw-strings...TOO LONG! How can I possibly be seen in public killing bad guys in this? My look is ruined!...it is, it's ruined.
I might as well start dressing like 004 now. That guy has NO fashion sense!"
People are upset because the end result (with a one shoulder-patch fits all pattern) is just weird, from an aesthetic point of view, nevermind screen-accuracy.
I made the point before, but imagine a pocket t-shirt. You know, the type where there's a chest pocket on the t-shirt? Okay, well it's like having a t-shirt with the pocket placed dead center on the shirt, instead of on the upper-chest. Dramatic example? Yes. But go ahead and google "sweater with shoulder patch" and see how many oddly scaled shoulder patches exist. This weird overlap is just as dramatic as that t-shirt example.
I'm totally with you!
I know that N. peal has a Nimbus over their Logo especially on AJB but it can't be that hard to cut correct shoulder-patches for the correct size.
and I dont like the argument "if you dont like it, dont buy it". I want to like the sweater but N. peal dont let me!! :-D
this shoulder-patch-n.peal-discussion is a highlight of this thread, thats for sure.it clearly has comedy-potential. like the fact to there are people out there who care for the same details. great! already fell in love with the community :>
This thread has turned to all out absurdity. If you want an “SA” sweater because you’re a serious collector, buy the large. If you want to wear the thing, buy your size and accept the fact that even if it were a perfect match, you’re still not Daniel Craig so it’s not going to look “SA” anyhow! Some of you have lost the plot! )
Well said. You have summed everything up perfectly, and you didn't even require forensic analysis to do so!
This won't come as any real comfort to those who were looking forward to a more SA version of their impending deliveries, but you're all making really valid points and articulating them well (even through the irritation/disappointment).
I suspect there is only so much NP will be able to do about this 'situation', but given what we know about their service level, surely everyone will be treated well and be able to return products they no longer want. NP could/would/should give a hard 'yes/no' to any idea of a 'more screen accurate v2.0' as it will allow consumers to make an immediate choice regarding keeping the licensed product or not. FWIW I think it's still a great looking jumper but more than understand the quest for screen accuracy.
As an aside, with all the costume changes JB has in this film, I'm believing in a >2.5hr running time )
I hope so, as even if it doesn't play out as fantastically as it does in my head, I'm not going to want it to end.
All the best,
S.
This thread has turned to all out absurdity. If you want an “SA” sweater because you’re a serious collector, buy the large. If you want to wear the thing, buy your size and accept the fact that even if it were a perfect match, you’re still not Daniel Craig so it’s not going to look “SA” anyhow! Some of you have lost the plot! )
Yet when people were buying the TF Harrington run everyone was happy to nitpick every minute detail until it was fabricated by Tom Ford to ensure it SA.
N.Peal list the jumper as "As seen on 007 ... in No Time To Die" if it is going to be sold "as seen" on DC then it needs to look the same as seen on DC .... IN ALL SIZES.
The Bond Experience YouTube channel is built off the back of buying these very costly and luxurious as close to screen accurate items as possible, reviewing and then "wearing them in the wild".
Why someone buying any size below large should be disadvantaged and not be able to have an opinion simply because N.Peal are too lazy to scale the patches to fit is beyond me. If that's the case scale the pricing too.
Why should someone buying a small not be able to wear their jumper out knowing it looks screen accurate. People continually moaned about the Tokito button position on the 2nd batch saying it wasn't SA (and made their own decision on whether to purchase or not).
This entire line from N.Peal is ultimately created to appeal to the movie franchises fan base that includes people on this forum.
Exactly I bought one of the Tom Ford Harringtons it wasn’t right and Luigi at the Sloane Street store in London took it back to Milan with him and made me a new one tailored to my size free of charge.So it was screen accurate and my size.
Npeal need to stop selling it and make it Screen accurate in every size for everybody
Another really valid point, well made.
A future Group-Made-To-Order may well be possible (per the TF Harrington) may well be possible? (putting aside for a moment the argument that 'we shouldn't have to').
Eeek, film licensing agreements are really a double-edged sword for businesses hey? Who'd be a clothier in this day and age? (not me).
I love the updates on this forum. I fear April is going to leave me with an emptiness last felt when Paul Walker 'left' Furious 7.
Exactly I bought one of the Tom Ford Harringtons it wasn’t right and Luigi at the Sloane Street store in London took it back to Milan with him and made me a new one tailored to my size free of charge.So it was screen accurate and my size.
Npeal need to stop selling it and make it Screen accurate in every size for everybody
Unlike the TF Harrington, this is not a limited run item made by an ultra high end luxury brand exclusively for a niche group of collectors in this forum. N Peal is out here to sell sweaters. If a few people don’t buy them because the patches aren’t just right, it’s not going to hurt their bottom line.
Comments
By the way, it looks to me as if the drawstring of the screen accurate sweater has the same color as the patches and now it has the color of the fabric. 8-)
I still assume that Daniel Craig's sweater was tailor-made for him but may be the closest match is a size L. Since his sweater is much wider in the shoulder area than the size M, I would guess that the upper part is more like a size XL.
Here’s a good old Navy NATO jumper on which it’s based. They produced hundreds of thousands of these for the Navy, Army, Air Force and Police. They can be bought for £45. Over the years, I never once noticed any of my smaller colleagues with oversized patches. The design was always adjusted for size.
I knew it. Totally called it!
For those that argue that this patch covers more ribs than Craig's, I'd agree wholeheartedly.
The facts of the case are this: We know that the sizes for these public release sweaters go up to an XXL. They made one design across ALL the sizes, from XXS to XXL, and are using that design on all sweaters.
So even if Craig is closer to a large, it doesn't matter. This new shoulder patch pattern is most likely larger than that so it doesn't look too bad on a XXL. But there's the rub- if you want something that looks stylistically normal (nevermind screen accurate), then don't bother unless you're an XL or an XXL.
This kind of reinforces what I said about them cutting corners earlier. Even a disposable fashion brand makes shoulder patches that are proportional to their respective individual sizes.
Definetly returning mine now...
N Peal is a great brand though with excellent customer service, so here's hoping it gets fixed.
I believe the original VIP release was penciled in for February 10th. I seem to remember reading somewhere N.Peal originally planning an April release and EON pushing for it to be earlier?
Interesting, thank you for sharing! I wonder if that did impact their decision to only use one pattern for their patches if they were under pressure to rush production.
I would have to disagree.
People are upset because the end result (with a one shoulder-patch fits all pattern) is just weird, from an aesthetic point of view, nevermind screen-accuracy.
I made the point before, but imagine a pocket t-shirt. You know, the type where there's a chest pocket on the t-shirt? Okay, well it's like having a t-shirt with the pocket placed dead center on the shirt, instead of on the upper-chest. Dramatic example? Yes. But go ahead and google "sweater with shoulder patch" and see how many oddly scaled shoulder patches exist. This weird overlap is just as dramatic as that t-shirt example.
Okay, I think I figured it out. (firstly, I can't believe I've spent this much time attempting to, but then again I can't shy away from a good challenge that requires detective work)
Facts: Shoulder patches are all the same size. Craig wore a Large. David wore a Small. It all depends on what kind of fit you prefer, relaxed, snug, tight etc. The shoulder width on a size L will be A LOT wider than a size Small.
3 things to note about the Craig poster:
1.) The shoulder width is almost slightly droopy, and certainly not tight-fitting, which supports the idea it's a size L. That fact alone will keep the shoulder patches from appearing too close together like it would on a size Small. Daniel Craig has the luxury of having personal tailors on stand-by to doctor up every piece he wears in these movies, where as David is simply trying an item on straight out of the box or off the rack if you will. Tailored items will always look better.
2.) The Braces, the braces, the braces. They make the neck opening look a lot smaller and may throw off the rib count as well.
3.) The man gets paid mega $ just to work out, so cut David some slack. Of course it looks better on Craig.
The inner edge of the patch should be in line with the edges of the collar. It just looks wrong.
8-)
Anyway, I originally was debating how many sweaters to buy, since this style of sweater is very much in line with my favorite aesthetics, but now, I'm wondering if it'll even be worth buying another sweater from N Peal depending on how they handle this situation. We know that there'll be future runs, so here's hoping that this is just a test release.
And Uncle27, I completely agree. These arguments about rib count are doing us no favors... Well, maybe with the exception of proving that there was one shoulder patch pattern used unscaled across all sizes. But outside of that, rib count doesn't matter. Obviously an XXS will have significantly different rib count than an XXL, otherwise if they did have the same rib count, those would be some huge ribs on the XXS. But yeah, arguing rib count is a bit pedantic.
But ultimately, there's just no getting around the oversized shoulder patches on the mid to lower range of sizes...
Accidental double post.
Perhaps a minor point, but I'm in the States and shipping was free. (It arrives tomorrow)
"Oh, great! The shoulder patches are too close together, I can't possibly wear this! And don't even get me started on the draw-strings...TOO LONG! How can I possibly be seen in public killing bad guys in this? My look is ruined!...it is, it's ruined.
I might as well start dressing like 004 now. That guy has NO fashion sense!"
I'm totally with you!
I know that N. peal has a Nimbus over their Logo especially on AJB but it can't be that hard to cut correct shoulder-patches for the correct size.
and I dont like the argument "if you dont like it, dont buy it". I want to like the sweater but N. peal dont let me!! :-D
this shoulder-patch-n.peal-discussion is a highlight of this thread, thats for sure.it clearly has comedy-potential. like the fact to there are people out there who care for the same details. great! already fell in love with the community :>
Well said. You have summed everything up perfectly, and you didn't even require forensic analysis to do so!
I suspect there is only so much NP will be able to do about this 'situation', but given what we know about their service level, surely everyone will be treated well and be able to return products they no longer want. NP could/would/should give a hard 'yes/no' to any idea of a 'more screen accurate v2.0' as it will allow consumers to make an immediate choice regarding keeping the licensed product or not. FWIW I think it's still a great looking jumper but more than understand the quest for screen accuracy.
As an aside, with all the costume changes JB has in this film, I'm believing in a >2.5hr running time
I hope so, as even if it doesn't play out as fantastically as it does in my head, I'm not going to want it to end.
All the best,
S.
Yet when people were buying the TF Harrington run everyone was happy to nitpick every minute detail until it was fabricated by Tom Ford to ensure it SA.
N.Peal list the jumper as "As seen on 007 ... in No Time To Die" if it is going to be sold "as seen" on DC then it needs to look the same as seen on DC .... IN ALL SIZES.
The Bond Experience YouTube channel is built off the back of buying these very costly and luxurious as close to screen accurate items as possible, reviewing and then "wearing them in the wild".
Why someone buying any size below large should be disadvantaged and not be able to have an opinion simply because N.Peal are too lazy to scale the patches to fit is beyond me. If that's the case scale the pricing too.
Why should someone buying a small not be able to wear their jumper out knowing it looks screen accurate. People continually moaned about the Tokito button position on the 2nd batch saying it wasn't SA (and made their own decision on whether to purchase or not).
This entire line from N.Peal is ultimately created to appeal to the movie franchises fan base that includes people on this forum.
Npeal need to stop selling it and make it Screen accurate in every size for everybody
A future Group-Made-To-Order may well be possible (per the TF Harrington) may well be possible? (putting aside for a moment the argument that 'we shouldn't have to').
Eeek, film licensing agreements are really a double-edged sword for businesses hey? Who'd be a clothier in this day and age? (not me).
I love the updates on this forum. I fear April is going to leave me with an emptiness last felt when Paul Walker 'left' Furious 7.
Yes, they do.
Unlike the TF Harrington, this is not a limited run item made by an ultra high end luxury brand exclusively for a niche group of collectors in this forum. N Peal is out here to sell sweaters. If a few people don’t buy them because the patches aren’t just right, it’s not going to hurt their bottom line.