His thesis is, that voters and political supporters are not like Mr. Spock - he compares us with Hooligans.
If the referee decides in favor of your team, he's fair and reasonable, if he decides against your team, he's corrupt and incompetent.
If someone or a media is in favor of your opinion, they are fair and balanced, if they are against your opinion, they are corrupt, incompetent and fake news.
As a result, Brennan demands different levels of voter's competence.
So educated voters are getting more votes than those who don't inform themselves.
While this is surely against equality and power by the populus, imo we can learn from him not to become the Hooligans that he draws out.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Donald Trump is visiting the Philippines next weekend - he is attending a gala dinner in Manila of South Asian nations and on the following day has a meeting with our President Duterte. Will be very interesting to see what is on the agenda.
Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.
It's likely Trump will praise Duerte for using police and death squads to kill street criminals and drug addicts. (autocorrect wanted me to write "drag addicts" ))
Hillary Clinton was involved in the urine-story about Trump, it seems. It still amazes me that the two major parties couldn't find better candidates for last year's election
Hillary Clinton was involved in the urine-story about Trump, it seems. It still amazes me that the two major parties couldn't find better candidates for last year's election
Well, let's just take trump as an example, there are other lots of them accross the world, does anyone actually believe Trump running for president was for any other reason then to feed his meglamaniacle vanity? Did he really want to right the wrongs? Unfortunately those who do enter politics for sincere and righteous reasons just don't make an impact.
Unfortunately those who do enter politics for sincere and righteous reasons just don't make an impact.
I'd like to turn an argument that is often used by you and others to that:
Obviously the well-informed and considerate voters obviously chose to elect the other guys.
So at the end of the day the majority of "us" is to blame because we have a choice and chose the wrong ones obviously.
So could we all agree that the outcome of a democratic election is not necessary what's best for the country?
And isn't it time to discuss what a dirty business it is to influence people in a way to get their ill-informed votes?
And how do we project all this at all the things that happened during the Brexit referendum - may I remind you of the red NHS bus? :v
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Higgins. In the Brexit campaign all sides attempt to influence people to get 'ill informed' votes, it was not exclusive tactic of the leave the EU campaigners, dirty tricks was used by both sides. As an observer I saw this so to be fair and impartial we must discuss this from both angles yes? I know you don't know why I stand by the result of that vote - I have no personal interest in it but no one can ever say it was not an outcome of a free vote. Because it was a free vote as far as I am concerned the result is the result, it does not matter if it is something I do not like, it was the vote of the majority. I think it would be better on many occasions if people would accept that. The only other way to do what you want against the majority is to set up a totalitarian dictatorship. I know you my friend would not want that so whatever vote the people make (just so long as the voting process itself is free and fair at the ballot box) must be respected.
Number24. Thank you. I note with great interest that the unfolding situation in Zimbabwe has not been deemed worthy of mention. To answer your question and using the information available to me I am cynical at this time. I think everyone now knows what led to the 'coup', but perhaps they do not know that the military has for a long time propped up the regime. The leaders of the military are long time ZANU PF supporters, so until I hear anything different, I will continue to assume this is nothing more than an internal ZANU PF power struggle. Many people in power at this time (either politicians or military and police leaders) would have much to lose if ZANU PF lost power, so I think the issue is to make sure that the military put their own favored man in place instead of Grace (Disgrace as she is known) Mugabe. I hope I am wrong but I think that this is what is happening at this time.
Unfortunately those who do enter politics for sincere and righteous reasons just don't make an impact.
I'd like to turn an argument that is often used by you and others to that:
Obviously the well-informed and considerate voters obviously chose to elect the other guys.
So at the end of the day the majority of "us" is to blame because we have a choice and chose the wrong ones obviously.
So could we all agree that the outcome of a democratic election is not necessary what's best for the country?
And isn't it time to discuss what a dirty business it is to influence people in a way to get their ill-informed votes?
And how do we project all this at all the things that happened during the Brexit referendum - may I remind you of the red NHS bus? :v
The UK government at the time of Brexit behaved totally irresponsibly, imho they should have stayed away from committing themselves to either side, their role should have been that of informing the voters correctly of the true facts, most of what both sides said has not come to fruition and as a result of all the grandstanding and personal gain the misinformation was rife.
may I add that the role of the Brexit supporters (who where the political opposition back then) was not any better in any regard.
And I disagree: The present government should make their position in important political issues clear and transparent.
If you look at referendum processes in Switzerland, the current governments always make clear, where they stand instead of having a neutral and moderating role.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I don't see it as the role of the government to put forth propaganda and misinformation, but to govern the country, in referendums the government should put forth accurate information and details.
I don't see it as the role of the government to put forth propaganda and misinformation,
wasn't that more the case with the other side?
At the end of the day, the UK people did not believe anything that was pro EU. Everything was regarded as influencing, scaremongering, blackmailing and so on. Blame your past governments from Maggie Thatcher on for using the EU as a scapegoat for everything that went wrong in the country.
And blame the UK citizens for not properly making their own opinion about the topic and voting for the clowns that you have instead of supporting decent people.
It starts with buying Murdoch publications btw.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Regards brexet. Both sides lied to the people. Had the remain in the EU side told only the truth then perhaps the vote would have been different? I think it is too easy to simplfy this matter, or to blame the 'ignorant' people for choosing the wrong side, but they had a choice of which sides lies to believe. They chose the leave the EU side. That is their right to do so. It is democracy, the will of the people. As I said already I have no personal interest in if the UK stayed in the EU or not, my interest lies only in defending peoples right to vote freely and fairly at the ballot box and then to respect what ever decision is forthcoming.
I also think it is too always too easy for any body who has never known what it is like not have the right to vote or to only be able to vote one way or be terrorized at the ballot box to make ridicule of the democratic systems. People who have known this think different. I say this before. It does not matter if the votes of the majority do not go the way of the individual, it matters that the votes of the majority are heard and there wishes are respected.
I don't see it as the role of the government to put forth propaganda and misinformation,
wasn't that more the case with the other side?
At the end of the day, the UK people did not believe anything that was pro EU. Everything was regarded as influencing, scaremongering, blackmailing and so on. Blame your past governments from Maggie Thatcher on for using the EU as a scapegoat for everything that went wrong in the country.
And blame the UK citizens for not properly making their own opinion about the topic and voting for the clowns that you have instead of supporting decent people.
It starts with buying Murdoch publications btw.
I don't buy any newspaper and I have a very low opinion of Murdoch, what I will say is that we have had a very poor choice n recent years, in general politicians are not regarded well here, they behave poorly and are in many cases completely detached from real life in the UK outside of London.
What the Brexit result showed was that people wanted change, they wanted to feel they could take some control of their lives and all the doom mongering fell on deaf ears, this country suffers terribly from the oppression of conformity, and what most don't understand is that 80% of the voters outside London couldn't care less what happens to London which is where the UK political focus mainly lies.
Regards brexet. Both sides lied to the people. Had the remain in the EU side told only the truth then perhaps the vote would have been different? I think it is too easy to simplfy this matter, or to blame the 'ignorant' people for choosing the wrong side, but they had a choice of which sides lies to believe. They chose the leave the EU side. That is their right to do so. It is democracy, the will of the people. As I said already I have no personal interest in if the UK stayed in the EU or not, my interest lies only in defending peoples right to vote freely and fairly at the ballot box and then to respect what ever decision is forthcoming.
I also think it is too always too easy for any body who has never known what it is like not have the right to vote or to only be able to vote one way or be terrorized at the ballot box to make ridicule of the democratic systems. People who have known this think different. I say this before. It does not matter if the votes of the majority do not go the way of the individual, it matters that the votes of the majority are heard and there wishes are respected.
You make valid points Joshua.
I think what we see these days is voter apathy turning I to protest votes, in the UK that has caused a very unstable political landscape. What choice is there really? Jeremy Corbyn hell bent on capitalist demise and national bankruptcy or the dithering and weak Theresa May!
Interesting see how Corbyns model for socialism has worked out. Venezuela is in such an almighty mess people are forced to eat the family pet just to survive.
there are several examples that a more left-orientated government can be quite successfully for developed countries.
Scaremongering Corbyn with Venezuela reminds me of the "Rote Socken" campaigns that we had over the years and btw the downfall of Venezuela had not much to do with socialism per se, I hope that we can agree on that
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I was unsure if I should post this here or in the political jokes thread:
The Norwegian Oil Fund will no longer invest in oil companies because oil is bad for the climate )
This must be the most long-lived political thread in a year .....
It's been free of personal attacks and insults- since Murdoch, Mugabe, Trump, May etc aren't members here, unless we've all been grossly misinformed, then insulting them is ok! (Within limits, obviously)
I was unsure if I should post this here or in the political jokes thread:
The Norwegian Oil Fund will no longer invest in oil companies because oil is bad for the climate )
And that comes in the same week as the Norwegian government granting new oil exploration licences, and being taken to court by Norwegian greenpeace for doing so
This must be the most long-lived political thread in a year .....
It's been free of personal attacks and insults- since Murdoch, Mugabe, Trump, May etc aren't members here, unless we've all been grossly misinformed, then insulting them is ok! (Within limits, obviously)
And long may it remain so or to be impartial short Corbyn it brexit not.
This must be the most long-lived political thread in a year .....
It's been free of personal attacks and insults- since Murdoch, Mugabe, Trump, May etc aren't members here, unless we've all been grossly misinformed, then insulting them is ok! (Within limits, obviously)
Perhaps I think this is not to do with the rules of the AJB but more because all the people debating here are able to conduct themselves well? Yes we can disagree but we just disagree without insult.
But does this mean I cannot insult Higgins or his training shoes?!
This must be the most long-lived political thread in a year .....
It's been free of personal attacks and insults- since Murdoch, Mugabe, Trump, May etc aren't members here, unless we've all been grossly misinformed, then insulting them is ok! (Within limits, obviously)
Trump and Hillary weren't members a year ago, but some threads were pretty lively anyway. I think we'd recognize Donald's speach pattern anywhere, but are we really sure Hillary wasn't a member back then?
It would explain one or two things.
Comments
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Brennan
His thesis is, that voters and political supporters are not like Mr. Spock - he compares us with Hooligans.
If the referee decides in favor of your team, he's fair and reasonable, if he decides against your team, he's corrupt and incompetent.
If someone or a media is in favor of your opinion, they are fair and balanced, if they are against your opinion, they are corrupt, incompetent and fake news.
As a result, Brennan demands different levels of voter's competence.
So educated voters are getting more votes than those who don't inform themselves.
While this is surely against equality and power by the populus, imo we can learn from him not to become the Hooligans that he draws out.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
His reply: He plays the National Anthem on a flute:
https://www.theawl.com/2017/11/watch-this-journalist-prove-hes-really-german/
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/25/hillary-clintons-campaign-paid-research-led-donald-trump-russia/
It looks like there is a coup in Zimbabwe going on. What do you think is happening?
Will Mugabe be overthrown?
I'd like to turn an argument that is often used by you and others to that:
Obviously the well-informed and considerate voters obviously chose to elect the other guys.
So at the end of the day the majority of "us" is to blame because we have a choice and chose the wrong ones obviously.
So could we all agree that the outcome of a democratic election is not necessary what's best for the country?
And isn't it time to discuss what a dirty business it is to influence people in a way to get their ill-informed votes?
And how do we project all this at all the things that happened during the Brexit referendum - may I remind you of the red NHS bus? :v
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Number24. Thank you. I note with great interest that the unfolding situation in Zimbabwe has not been deemed worthy of mention. To answer your question and using the information available to me I am cynical at this time. I think everyone now knows what led to the 'coup', but perhaps they do not know that the military has for a long time propped up the regime. The leaders of the military are long time ZANU PF supporters, so until I hear anything different, I will continue to assume this is nothing more than an internal ZANU PF power struggle. Many people in power at this time (either politicians or military and police leaders) would have much to lose if ZANU PF lost power, so I think the issue is to make sure that the military put their own favored man in place instead of Grace (Disgrace as she is known) Mugabe. I hope I am wrong but I think that this is what is happening at this time.
And I disagree: The present government should make their position in important political issues clear and transparent.
If you look at referendum processes in Switzerland, the current governments always make clear, where they stand instead of having a neutral and moderating role.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
wasn't that more the case with the other side?
At the end of the day, the UK people did not believe anything that was pro EU. Everything was regarded as influencing, scaremongering, blackmailing and so on. Blame your past governments from Maggie Thatcher on for using the EU as a scapegoat for everything that went wrong in the country.
And blame the UK citizens for not properly making their own opinion about the topic and voting for the clowns that you have instead of supporting decent people.
It starts with buying Murdoch publications btw.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Regards brexet. Both sides lied to the people. Had the remain in the EU side told only the truth then perhaps the vote would have been different? I think it is too easy to simplfy this matter, or to blame the 'ignorant' people for choosing the wrong side, but they had a choice of which sides lies to believe. They chose the leave the EU side. That is their right to do so. It is democracy, the will of the people. As I said already I have no personal interest in if the UK stayed in the EU or not, my interest lies only in defending peoples right to vote freely and fairly at the ballot box and then to respect what ever decision is forthcoming.
I also think it is too always too easy for any body who has never known what it is like not have the right to vote or to only be able to vote one way or be terrorized at the ballot box to make ridicule of the democratic systems. People who have known this think different. I say this before. It does not matter if the votes of the majority do not go the way of the individual, it matters that the votes of the majority are heard and there wishes are respected.
I don't buy any newspaper and I have a very low opinion of Murdoch, what I will say is that we have had a very poor choice n recent years, in general politicians are not regarded well here, they behave poorly and are in many cases completely detached from real life in the UK outside of London.
What the Brexit result showed was that people wanted change, they wanted to feel they could take some control of their lives and all the doom mongering fell on deaf ears, this country suffers terribly from the oppression of conformity, and what most don't understand is that 80% of the voters outside London couldn't care less what happens to London which is where the UK political focus mainly lies.
You make valid points Joshua.
I think what we see these days is voter apathy turning I to protest votes, in the UK that has caused a very unstable political landscape. What choice is there really? Jeremy Corbyn hell bent on capitalist demise and national bankruptcy or the dithering and weak Theresa May!
Interesting see how Corbyns model for socialism has worked out. Venezuela is in such an almighty mess people are forced to eat the family pet just to survive.
Scaremongering Corbyn with Venezuela reminds me of the "Rote Socken" campaigns that we had over the years and btw the downfall of Venezuela had not much to do with socialism per se, I hope that we can agree on that
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
The Norwegian Oil Fund will no longer invest in oil companies because oil is bad for the climate
Perhaps I think this is not to do with the rules of the AJB but more because all the people debating here are able to conduct themselves well? Yes we can disagree but we just disagree without insult.
But does this mean I cannot insult Higgins or his training shoes?!
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Trump and Hillary weren't members a year ago, but some threads were pretty lively anyway. I think we'd recognize Donald's speach pattern anywhere, but are we really sure Hillary wasn't a member back then?
It would explain one or two things.