What would Dalton's AVTAK have been like?
Number24
NorwayPosts: 22,334MI6 Agent
Many think Roger Moore was too old when he made AVTAK. Since I'm a Dalton fan and he was the one who took over from Moore in TLD I find it interesting speculating on how his AVTAK may had been like. Personally I think there are a few elements of AVTAK that actually would have fitted Dalton better than Moore: Zorin and Scarpine shooting the workers in the mine, the KGB agent getting brutally killed by the propeller in the pipe, Duran Duran and Grace Jones are among them. The obvious plus for Dalton was his age, because he was 39 and Moore was 57. Dalton would have been far more convincing in the more physical scenes and the age difference compared to the Bond Girls wouldn't have been jarring. I think the only one who would need recasting in this scenario would have been Moneypenny. The villains would have worked better with the younger Dalton, age wasn't really an issue for M and Q. I actually don't mind Tanya Roberts as Stacey. Just half the time she shouts "James!" and let her be kidnapped by Zorin before the airship takes off. What about Tibbet? I think the character as played by Patrick Macnee would have come across as the veteran agent who started in the service in WWII, and the guests at the palace would have seen him as the old family servant who'd probably been with St John Smythe's family since before he was born. Recasting to a young actor may have looked odd, an actor from another ethnic group may have looked questionable in the role as a servant and casting an actress may have looked superfluous or even wrong since Stacy Sutton is the woman Bond is focusing on at the castle.
What would have to go? "California Girls" in the PTS and perhaps some of the sillier elements, I think. I'd like it if they scrapped the whole"snowboard" idea and had Bond on a snowmobile longer. He'd be chased by soldiers on skis and snowmobiles and cross the lake on the snowmobile.
Q's robodog, the caricature Frenchmen and some of the quips and double entendres work for Moore, but not Dalton.
I think Dalton's Bond would have bedded Stacey after the fight at her house. Yes, in this version Dalton's Bond has more sex than Sir Roger
Tucking her in for the night is fitting for a man at 57, but not a 39 year old Bond. Many of the action scenes could have been more vigorous and tough and the leading actor's face could have been shown more often during them.
I'd like to hear other members' opinion on this. :007)
What would have to go? "California Girls" in the PTS and perhaps some of the sillier elements, I think. I'd like it if they scrapped the whole"snowboard" idea and had Bond on a snowmobile longer. He'd be chased by soldiers on skis and snowmobiles and cross the lake on the snowmobile.
Q's robodog, the caricature Frenchmen and some of the quips and double entendres work for Moore, but not Dalton.
I think Dalton's Bond would have bedded Stacey after the fight at her house. Yes, in this version Dalton's Bond has more sex than Sir Roger
Tucking her in for the night is fitting for a man at 57, but not a 39 year old Bond. Many of the action scenes could have been more vigorous and tough and the leading actor's face could have been shown more often during them.I'd like to hear other members' opinion on this. :007)
Comments
Good idea. Also most of the problems with the film are due to a decrepit Sir Roger. Never convincing physically it became embarrassing by AVTAK. Would also loved to see Bowie as Zorin as was originally mooted.
I don't think there's any need to get a new PTS, Just cut out the silly bits and ad more though and believable action. One example is when Moore gets out a long line with an ancor, drops the ancor in a crevasse, skis aftera snowmobile with the rope, attaches the end of the rope to the driver of the snowmobile who gets pulled off his vehicle for Bond to jump on it. Dalton's Bodn would just've skied after the snowmobile, punched the driver and jumped on it. Dalton would probably even learn to ski and operate a snowmobile to be able to do some of the easier scenes himself.
AVTAK has relatively few gadgets and some really brutal scenes, and with a few modifications the movie would have worked fine for Dalton. Right now the only gadgets I can think of is the robodog and the special glasses he uses at the palace party.
I know the St John Smythe scenes are i the first half, which is why I said "I can picture Dalton in the second half of AVTAK".
I don't think they would have written Dalton to play a pompous heir, but that's how Bond is able to infiltrate Zorin's world. Dalton just wouldn't be able to pull it off and I think if they tried anything close to what they did in the first half of the film with Moore people would have hated Dalton. It would not have been the right way to start off his tenure, but it was a fantastic way to send off Moore, having Moore play an exaggerated version of himself, like Brett Sinclair. Dalton would have needed a more updated setting and circumstance with more action. There wouldn't have been anything to do with horses at a French chateau in Dalton's version. Maybe we could have seen more of Paris and something adapted from From a View to a Kill beyond the setting.
I think an experienced actor like Dalton would have no problem at all playing a pompus heir, but I agree an other way of infiltrating Zorin's inner circle would have suited his Bond better.
Although I may be in the minority of fans, who actually like AVTAK as it's Roger's last
Bond outing, it has a sentimental tug on the heart strings effect on me.
the snowboarding sequence, perhaps a different ending, without the motorised iceberg ?
I like it too. I'm more of a fan of the first half, while most people favour the second half. The first half is just so Moore, while the second half doesn't play to his strengths so well, which is where Dalton may have done a better job.
I think Moore is one of the strengths of the film rather than the story. I think it would have been a terrible script overall to introduce a new Bond with.
I forgot the "iceberg" is actually a gadget, but AVTAK is still a "gadget-light" Bond movie. I think the idea fits Moore well, but the of it isn't good enough. Being picked up by a Royal Navy submarine would probably suit Dalton better. He could climb down through the tower, salute the captain and present himself as "Commander Bond, James Bond". I think that would be a good introduction for a new 007.
Still thinking of a Sir Roger, Bond film !
"A little soap here.............a little soap there.
Drat! I dropped the soap.
THAT is not the soap.
Ha ha, OOOOOOH!"
I've been thinking about how the horses and the castle could have been changed to something that fitted Dalton better. Perhaps Zorin cheats in motor racing instead of horse racing? Bond could have infiltrated his organisation by posing as a race car driver. This would have fitted Dalton better, but the subplot of genetic engineering wouldn't be relevant in this scenario.
Speaking of this: in the DVD commentary it's revealed that not only Zorin was meant to be a Reickind - May Day was supposed to be a result of the Lebensborn program too! Imagine the nazis making a black superwoman
Thank God that not in the movie, it would be as unrealistic as Stomberg's underwater society.
-Casino Royale, Ian Fleming
Use them taking photos of lakes or cars to remove reflections.
While the few gadgets in AVTAK has some use, other than the "iceberg" all of them could be taken out of the movie without any impact on the plot.
Certainly Dalton could have brought a level of credibility to a lot of the action scenes, and not been as reliant on stunt doubles as Moore clearly was. It's definitely an enticing prospect to consider, but on the other hand, what would AVTAK be without the repeated cries of "Whooooooah" from Bond?
It's in threads like this we notice Higgins is on holliday
I mean, you can't make scenes that drag on or humour that's a bit off better by just replacing the main man. To me, Moore being old and doing all that just adds to it lol, a practice in how far you can suspend your disbelief. That's what A View To a Kill is to me.
Some people say that the film would have been better if Moore’s age was acknowledged n the film. It is, just very subtly by how the film expects Bond to take things easy (when not in the bedroom/shower).
AVTAK was so obviously written for Roger, and with so little effort behind it, that it doesn't make sense as anything other than a tired, just-another-Bond-film. And I say that as someone who enjoys it for the most part, even if I do think it's a lesser entry. TLD, on the other hand, felt like it was something close to a mission statement: a grittier, more serious espionage film.
More crucially, if Dalton had been approached, would he have wanted to appear in a film like that?