I understood from the Mirror's Kevin Maguire that Brexit had no bearing on the contracts - countries were individually able to pursue contracts on their own behalf no matter what, even if part of the EU.
The rich countries should offer vaccines for the poorer countries for both medical and moral reasons. There is also the factor of China. The county has already supplied face masks and other important products to many countries, even Norway. Now they have a vaccines that's affordable and doesn't requier special refrigerators. The vaccine is being offered around the world. This will make it easier for China to get contracts for building railways, broadband Wi-Fi and military sales etc. Furter down the road this can lead to trade agreements and military alliances. But the moral side of it should be reason enough to supply vaccines to poor nations.
The EU wanted to the negotiating itself. They should have at least picked up where the 'Inclusive Vaccine Alliance' had left off.
The UK apparently plans to distribute unused vaccine to poorer countries.
I've also been reading that the Johnson & Johnson vaccine may be better for poorer countries because it's easier to transport and remains stable for longer periods.
In the UK the advice is very much even if you have had the vaccine you still social distance and wear masks. Adhere to lockdown etc.
I unconditionally admit, that it seems for now that the UK had the better strategy and where faster and more efficient to secure vaccines for their people.
And the EU does not look very good in comparison as we are having a massive lack of vaccines - for now.
Now, let's imagine for a second ( I know crazy thought... :007) ) that the EU would have managed to come out clear first in the "Race for the Vaccine":
- Can you imagine the UK press blasting the Monster EU for buying the entire market dry and leaving everybody else in the dark?
- Imagine how I'd get burnt and blasted for celebrating the EU for being first - more smart and simply having outspent others by a large margin?
- What would BOJO do? Wouldn't he seize the entire UK production for other countries for the benefit of his own people to fasttrack vaccination in his own country?
Yes, I know - crazy and I am way off base and without any connection to reality......
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
It seems that in their trials, AZ had only a little number of older participants, to the EU advisors (and the german vaccinating commitee) are recommending not to use AZ for older people.
That aside, numbers of severe problems after vaccinations are reported in the 1/1000s.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Putting all previous Brexit / EU things to one side now as best as possible ... for me the most disappointing thing has been the anti-UK vaccine rhetoric that appeared in a couple of the German press sources quoting effectiveness rates of just 8% for those persons of a 'more mature age'. The potential damage that this could have done in terms of spreading an utterly incorrect message was shameful & our very own Guardian newspaper also carried it on briefly as a result before pulling the story.
Scientists from all around the world have hopefully now created a vaccination against this virus & it should be widely praised - not used for spreading petty false agendas or c0ck waving.
I would also like to echo Lady Rose's point from post 1283 above that the UK have in fact said that they would distribute unused vaccines across to poorer countries, whilst also committing to a significant amount of money (if memory serves me correct it is £500M) to help them purchase supplies too.
Putting all previous Brexit / EU things to one side now as best as possible ... for me the most disappointing thing has been the anti-UK vaccine rhetoric that appeared in a couple of the German press sources quoting effectiveness rates of just 8% for those persons of a 'more mature age'. The potential damage that this could have done in terms of spreading an utterly incorrect message was shameful & our very own Guardian newspaper also carried it on briefly as a result before pulling the story.
.
My advise for you is to check your sources and the facts before you are putting out such accusations!
Facts are a bit more complex and I am happy to give your some context:
The independent German Vaccine Commission together with the EU Health advisory board have put out a recommendation against using AZ with people over 65, because in the trial period, the numbers of >65 year olds have been at 8% ( even 4% over 70) and that is regarded as too small of a number to make a serious prediction.*
So the german press is just reporting what EU and german officials together with the Scientist Community are putting out.
*In the trials, AZ had 341 people over 65 vaccinated and one of them suffered from a Covid infection.
This could be a very good result, but in the placebo group, there where 319 people over 65 and only one has gotten Covid infected as well.
And since months, scientists demand broader numbers for that agegroup to make a better qualified prognosis.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,749Chief of Staff
It seems that in their trials, AZ had only a little number of older participants, to the EU advisors (and the german vaccinating commitee) are recommending not to use AZ for older people.
That aside, numbers of severe problems after vaccinations are reported in the 1/1000s.
There simply hasn’t been enough time for ‘proper’ testing to be carried out…no one can be sure how effective, how safe, how long these vaccines will give protection for and if they work against the many variants...even the German vaccination committee is guessing at best...unfortunately we are all the guinea pigs here.
Putting all previous Brexit / EU things to one side now as best as possible ... for me the most disappointing thing has been the anti-UK vaccine rhetoric that appeared in a couple of the German press sources quoting effectiveness rates of just 8% for those persons of a 'more mature age'. The potential damage that this could have done in terms of spreading an utterly incorrect message was shameful & our very own Guardian newspaper also carried it on briefly as a result before pulling the story.
.
My advise for you is to check your sources and the facts before you are putting out such accusations!
Facts are a bit more complex and I am happy to give your some context:
The independent German Vaccine Commission together with the EU Health advisory board have put out a recommendation against using AZ with people over 65, because in the trial period, the numbers of >65 year olds have been at 8% ( even 4% over 70) and that is regarded as too small of a number to make a serious prediction.*
So the german press is just reporting what EU and german officials together with the Scientist Community are putting out.
*In the trials, AZ had 341 people over 65 vaccinated and one of them suffered from a Covid infection.
This could be a very good result, but in the placebo group, there where 319 people over 65 and only one has gotten Covid infected as well.
And since months, scientists demand broader numbers for that agegroup to make a better qualified prognosis.
This article may interest you as to why Ens007 is right to be disappointed in the German press.
What I find amusing is for a vaccine which the European press are slagging off, they're making a lot of fuss about getting their hands on it.
I watched a Q&A with Jonathan Van Tam the other night on Channel 4 and I was reassured by a lot of what he was saying. He was also explaining why the UK has one of the best sequencing programmes in the world and that is why we pick up the new variants so quickly.
Apparently the UK have put in a massive order for the Johnson and Johnson vaccine too. We're going to have vaccines coming out of our ears at this rate.
It seems that in their trials, AZ had only a little number of older participants, to the EU advisors (and the german vaccinating commitee) are recommending not to use AZ for older people.
That aside, numbers of severe problems after vaccinations are reported in the 1/1000s.
There simply hasn’t been enough time for ‘proper’ testing to be carried out…no one can be sure how effective, how safe, how long these vaccines will give protection for and if they work against the many variants...even the German vaccination committee is guessing at best...unfortunately we are all the guinea pigs here.
I disagree. While one can't be absolutely sure about the effectiveness and effects of the vaccines, but they're pretty close to sure. Testing was done in reccord time, but not because any part of the testing was skipped. Instead the phases overlapped. Testing on animals was not completly finished before testing on humans begun, but they were completed.
My advise for you is to check your sources and the facts before you are putting out such accusations!
If you don’t mind, I’ll steer well clear of taking any advise from you thanks very much. I have absolutely nothing to say to you whatsoever after previous ‘dealings’ on here / privately.
Moving swiftly on ...
@Lady Rose - thanks for including the Guardian article & I too felt a lot more reassured by JVT’s comments. I’m extremely proud of our scientists here & am sure that they will provide a very welcome vaccination solution for people all round the world during this dreadful situation.
Just reading the news and I see that as the EU have approved the AZ vaccine for over 18's, Macron is claiming the vaccine is almost ineffective for over 65's even though he acknowledged he had no figures or official information. (Very Trumpian)
This cannot inspire confidence within the European community.
you conveniently ignore the numbers that I gave you previously* and make up something that does not happen over here.
Some days ago, Handelsblatt has cited The Guardian with an incorrect quote.
Obviously there was a misunderstanding( by whom I don‘t know) and the 8% of over 65 year olds was made to „only 8% efficiency among >65 years“.
Germany‘s largest tabloid Bild took this number and it became soon clear that there was a mistake and it has been corrected and explained.
The European Agency EMA greenlit AZ vaccine today and „ in dubio“ recommend it to everybody over 18 and that includes >65.
Their position is, that there is no evidence in the trials, that it doesn‘t work.
(personal comment from me: based on the numbers that I have quoted above, the evidence, that it really works is not there, too).
The German advisory board still stands with their recommendation to use AZ only <65 and that‘s what the German press has been reporting.
And President Macron apparently has similar concerns.
How that should be harmful for people‘s confidence in the EU - I don‘t know.
I can see the scientific concerns and understand the hesitance from our leaders.
Others may come to a different opinion - that‘s life.
*In the trials, AZ had 341 people over 65 vaccinated and one of them suffered from a Covid infection.
This could be a very good result, but in the placebo group, there where 319 people over 65 and only one has gotten Covid infected as well.
And since months, scientists demand broader numbers for that age group to make a better qualified prognosis.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
There simply hasn’t been enough time for ‘proper’ testing to be carried out…no one can be sure how effective, how safe, how long these vaccines will give protection for and if they work against the many variants...even the German vaccination committee is guessing at best...unfortunately we are all the guinea pigs here.
While I can‘t really disagree, what are the alternatives?
We need vaccination now - all that we can do is to make sure that the vaccines are as well tested as humanly possible.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Very unsavoury turn of events now regarding the EU & Northern Ireland re: the control of movement of vaccines. Truly hope that sense & decency prevails.
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,749Chief of Staff
It seems that in their trials, AZ had only a little number of older participants, to the EU advisors (and the german vaccinating commitee) are recommending not to use AZ for older people.
That aside, numbers of severe problems after vaccinations are reported in the 1/1000s.
There simply hasn’t been enough time for ‘proper’ testing to be carried out…no one can be sure how effective, how safe, how long these vaccines will give protection for and if they work against the many variants...even the German vaccination committee is guessing at best...unfortunately we are all the guinea pigs here.
I disagree. While one can't be absolutely sure about the effectiveness and effects of the vaccines, but they're pretty close to sure. Testing was done in reccord time, but not because any part of the testing was skipped. Instead the phases overlapped. Testing on animals was not completly finished before testing on humans begun, but they were completed.
Unfortunately ’they’ are not ‘pretty close to sure’...it’s ‘best guess’ territory...vaccines take years to develop and test, these have taken a few months...coronavirus is mutating all the time and it’s not sure how these vaccines work against the different mutations - although some appear to work better than others...
YNWA 97
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,749Chief of Staff
There simply hasn’t been enough time for ‘proper’ testing to be carried out…no one can be sure how effective, how safe, how long these vaccines will give protection for and if they work against the many variants...even the German vaccination committee is guessing at best...unfortunately we are all the guinea pigs here.
While I can‘t really disagree, what are the alternatives?
We need vaccination now - all that we can do is to make sure that the vaccines are as well tested as humanly possible.
Oh, I absolutely agree with you...it’s the German vaccination committee that were casting doubt.
There simply hasn’t been enough time for ‘proper’ testing to be carried out…no one can be sure how effective, how safe, how long these vaccines will give protection for and if they work against the many variants...even the German vaccination committee is guessing at best...unfortunately we are all the guinea pigs here.
I disagree. While one can't be absolutely sure about the effectiveness and effects of the vaccines, but they're pretty close to sure. Testing was done in reccord time, but not because any part of the testing was skipped. Instead the phases overlapped. Testing on animals was not completly finished before testing on humans begun, but they were completed.
Unfortunately ’they’ are not ‘pretty close to sure’...it’s ‘best guess’ territory...vaccines take years to develop and test, these have taken a few months...coronavirus is mutating all the time and it’s not sure how these vaccines work against the different mutations - although some appear to work better than others...
There is some doubt about the mutations naturally.
But with the standard virus we're not talking about guessing. The development was quick because so much talent and money was thrown at it. The vaccines went through all the stages of testing, but the process was compressed in time.
Oh, I absolutely agree with you...it’s the German vaccination committee that were casting doubt.
That is not correct!
Scientists have already complained the lack of data for elderly for quite some time - and it seems that not only the germans are hesitant (at this point - if better data come up - that all may change).
I am hearing today, that Italy only use AZ for <55 years, the French have their concerns, too.
But even if it would be all scaremongering by the „germans“, there is no „Anti-UK vaccine rhetoric“ in the german press like initially accused!
They are only reporting what is being (controversially) discussed.
And if there was an „Anti-UK Vaccination“ state of mind here, we would not use this vaccine for our people <65 with our essential workers in the medical field at front.
So we can safely put this „Anti-UK“ crap to rest.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
The vaccines went through all the stages of testing, but the process was compressed in time.
Well, due to the short time, the numbers of tested people have been relatively low.
In the case of AZ, less than 10.000, 850 in the group of >65 and only 2 of them have been infected.
One of the infected people was in the placebo group.
If I was sarcastic, I‘d say that as of today, it seems that the placebo works as good as the AZ vaccine to protect >65 from getting Covid
We don‘t simply know enough - yet!
Certainly not enough data here today to make an exact scientific assessment.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Scientists have already complained the lack of data for elderly for quite some time - and it seems that not only the germans are hesitant (at this point - if better data come up - that all may change).
I am hearing today, that Italy only use AZ for <55 years, the French have their concerns, too.
But even if it would be all scaremongering by the „germans“, there is no „Anti-UK vaccine rhetoric“ in the german press like initially accused!
They are only reporting what is being (controversially) discussed.
And if there was an „Anti-UK Vaccination“ state of mind here, we would not use this vaccine for our people <65 with our essential workers in the medical field at front.
So we can safely put this „Anti-UK“ crap to rest.
Where is the 'anti uk crap' coming from? It's coming from Europe making a hell of a fuss over a jab they claim doesn't work properly but for some reason are desperate to get their hands on!
The BIB ... Macron has made himself look like an idiot. He's basically gone full Trump as far as the AZ vaccine is concerned and I wonder why ??
There is some doubt about the mutations naturally.
But with the standard virus we're not talking about guessing. The development was quick because so much talent and money was thrown at it. The vaccines went through all the stages of testing, but the process was compressed in time.
The best way I heard the testing and development of the vaccine was like this. If you had one person trying to knit a scarf that was a 1000ft long it would take a long time but if you had a 1000 people working on it at the same time and they did 1ft each it would be done a heck of a lot quicker. This has been how the vaccine has been developed. Also, the regulating bodies have had access to all the data and tests as they have gone along so everything has been done side by side to speed up the whole process.
Where is the 'anti uk crap' coming from? It's coming from Europe making a hell of a fuss over a jab they claim doesn't work properly but for some reason are desperate to get their hands on!
I have now explained you that Handelsblatt or Guardian mixed the 8% and Bild made a wrong article.
This has been identified within hours, it has been corrected and reported in all main news outlets here on the same day.
And I gave you several times the exact numbers from AZ phase trials to make it more understandable, why the german vaccination committee made their proposal.
It‘s based on concerns from Scientists and it ONLY applies to people over 65.
Nobody says that AZ doesn‘t work.
It‘s simply not greenlit for people over 65 because there is not enough data
And we will use the AZ vaccine for people under 65 as recommended by the national vaccination comittee.
If you still prefer the see an „Anti-Uk Vaccination“ movement here - your choice.
It doesn‘t exist in reality.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I'd like to see exactly where Macron is really saying "that the vaccine is quasi ineffective".
The following theory that Macron is doing that to reduce demand for AZ because we don't get enough is hilarious and just speculation.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I have now checked several UK news outlets for the Macron quote.
This is what I found on several platforms:
Macron said there was "very little information" available for the vaccine developed by the British-Swedish company and Oxford University. "Today we think that it is quasi-ineffective for people over 65,"
And Macron added:
"What I can tell you officially today is that the early results we have are not encouraging for 60 to 65-year-old people concerning AstraZeneca"
So this John Bell guy is only partially quoting Macron to create a divisive headline and just making a ridiculous speculation about Macron's motives. Macron is far more clever than this, I can assure you.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I have now checked several UK news outlets for the Macron quote.
This is what I found on several platforms:
Macron said there was "very little information" available for the vaccine developed by the British-Swedish company and Oxford University. "Today we think that it is quasi-ineffective for people over 65,"
"What I can tell you officially today is that the early results we have are not encouraging for 60 to 65-year-old people concerning AstraZeneca"
So this John Bell guy is only partially quoting Macron to create a divisive headline and just making a ridiculous speculation about Macron's motives. Macron is far more clever than this, I can assure you.
You left out the bit were Macron said ' 'I don't have any data, and I don't have a scientific team of my own to look at the numbers.'
So he was giving an opinion without having the information he needed. Very dangerous thing to do in his position.
I see he is also putting off a third lockdown in France. He should at least learn from us that delaying lockdowns only leads to more deaths.
Comments
Roger Moore 1927-2017
https://www.government.nl/latest/news/2020/06/03/france-germany-italy-and-the-netherlands-working-together-to-find-a-vaccine-for-countries-in-europe-and-beyond
The EU wanted to the negotiating itself. They should have at least picked up where the 'Inclusive Vaccine Alliance' had left off.
The UK apparently plans to distribute unused vaccine to poorer countries.
I've also been reading that the Johnson & Johnson vaccine may be better for poorer countries because it's easier to transport and remains stable for longer periods.
In the UK the advice is very much even if you have had the vaccine you still social distance and wear masks. Adhere to lockdown etc.
https://www.itv.com/news/2021-01-28/novavax-vaccine-appears-89-effective-against-covid
And the EU does not look very good in comparison as we are having a massive lack of vaccines - for now.
Now, let's imagine for a second ( I know crazy thought... :007) ) that the EU would have managed to come out clear first in the "Race for the Vaccine":
- Can you imagine the UK press blasting the Monster EU for buying the entire market dry and leaving everybody else in the dark?
- Imagine how I'd get burnt and blasted for celebrating the EU for being first - more smart and simply having outspent others by a large margin?
- What would BOJO do? Wouldn't he seize the entire UK production for other countries for the benefit of his own people to fasttrack vaccination in his own country?
Yes, I know - crazy and I am way off base and without any connection to reality......
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
That aside, numbers of severe problems after vaccinations are reported in the 1/1000s.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Scientists from all around the world have hopefully now created a vaccination against this virus & it should be widely praised - not used for spreading petty false agendas or c0ck waving.
I would also like to echo Lady Rose's point from post 1283 above that the UK have in fact said that they would distribute unused vaccines across to poorer countries, whilst also committing to a significant amount of money (if memory serves me correct it is £500M) to help them purchase supplies too.
My advise for you is to check your sources and the facts before you are putting out such accusations!
Facts are a bit more complex and I am happy to give your some context:
The independent German Vaccine Commission together with the EU Health advisory board have put out a recommendation against using AZ with people over 65, because in the trial period, the numbers of >65 year olds have been at 8% ( even 4% over 70) and that is regarded as too small of a number to make a serious prediction.*
So the german press is just reporting what EU and german officials together with the Scientist Community are putting out.
*In the trials, AZ had 341 people over 65 vaccinated and one of them suffered from a Covid infection.
This could be a very good result, but in the placebo group, there where 319 people over 65 and only one has gotten Covid infected as well.
And since months, scientists demand broader numbers for that agegroup to make a better qualified prognosis.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
There simply hasn’t been enough time for ‘proper’ testing to be carried out…no one can be sure how effective, how safe, how long these vaccines will give protection for and if they work against the many variants...even the German vaccination committee is guessing at best...unfortunately we are all the guinea pigs here.
This article may interest you as to why Ens007 is right to be disappointed in the German press.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/jan/26/should-we-worry-about-claims-astrazeneca-jab-has-8-efficacy-in-over-65s
What I find amusing is for a vaccine which the European press are slagging off, they're making a lot of fuss about getting their hands on it.
I watched a Q&A with Jonathan Van Tam the other night on Channel 4 and I was reassured by a lot of what he was saying. He was also explaining why the UK has one of the best sequencing programmes in the world and that is why we pick up the new variants so quickly.
Apparently the UK have put in a massive order for the Johnson and Johnson vaccine too. We're going to have vaccines coming out of our ears at this rate.
I disagree. While one can't be absolutely sure about the effectiveness and effects of the vaccines, but they're pretty close to sure. Testing was done in reccord time, but not because any part of the testing was skipped. Instead the phases overlapped. Testing on animals was not completly finished before testing on humans begun, but they were completed.
If you don’t mind, I’ll steer well clear of taking any advise from you thanks very much. I have absolutely nothing to say to you whatsoever after previous ‘dealings’ on here / privately.
Moving swiftly on ...
@Lady Rose - thanks for including the Guardian article & I too felt a lot more reassured by JVT’s comments. I’m extremely proud of our scientists here & am sure that they will provide a very welcome vaccination solution for people all round the world during this dreadful situation.
This cannot inspire confidence within the European community.
you conveniently ignore the numbers that I gave you previously* and make up something that does not happen over here.
Some days ago, Handelsblatt has cited The Guardian with an incorrect quote.
Obviously there was a misunderstanding( by whom I don‘t know) and the 8% of over 65 year olds was made to „only 8% efficiency among >65 years“.
Germany‘s largest tabloid Bild took this number and it became soon clear that there was a mistake and it has been corrected and explained.
The European Agency EMA greenlit AZ vaccine today and „ in dubio“ recommend it to everybody over 18 and that includes >65.
Their position is, that there is no evidence in the trials, that it doesn‘t work.
(personal comment from me: based on the numbers that I have quoted above, the evidence, that it really works is not there, too).
The German advisory board still stands with their recommendation to use AZ only <65 and that‘s what the German press has been reporting.
And President Macron apparently has similar concerns.
How that should be harmful for people‘s confidence in the EU - I don‘t know.
I can see the scientific concerns and understand the hesitance from our leaders.
Others may come to a different opinion - that‘s life.
*In the trials, AZ had 341 people over 65 vaccinated and one of them suffered from a Covid infection.
This could be a very good result, but in the placebo group, there where 319 people over 65 and only one has gotten Covid infected as well.
And since months, scientists demand broader numbers for that age group to make a better qualified prognosis.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
While I can‘t really disagree, what are the alternatives?
We need vaccination now - all that we can do is to make sure that the vaccines are as well tested as humanly possible.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
8898 participants from them around 50% have received a Placebo.
During the trials, 98 caught the virus, 71 of them where in the placebo group.
660 where >65 and 2 of them got infected - one has received the vaccine and one received a placebo.
https://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/medizin/coronavirus-was-den-astrazeneca-impfstoff-gegen-covid-19-ausmacht-a-9922d618-7f3e-42b0-94a2-48abbd486a99
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Unfortunately ’they’ are not ‘pretty close to sure’...it’s ‘best guess’ territory...vaccines take years to develop and test, these have taken a few months...coronavirus is mutating all the time and it’s not sure how these vaccines work against the different mutations - although some appear to work better than others...
Oh, I absolutely agree with you...it’s the German vaccination committee that were casting doubt.
There is some doubt about the mutations naturally.
But with the standard virus we're not talking about guessing. The development was quick because so much talent and money was thrown at it. The vaccines went through all the stages of testing, but the process was compressed in time.
That is not correct!
Scientists have already complained the lack of data for elderly for quite some time - and it seems that not only the germans are hesitant (at this point - if better data come up - that all may change).
I am hearing today, that Italy only use AZ for <55 years, the French have their concerns, too.
But even if it would be all scaremongering by the „germans“, there is no „Anti-UK vaccine rhetoric“ in the german press like initially accused!
They are only reporting what is being (controversially) discussed.
And if there was an „Anti-UK Vaccination“ state of mind here, we would not use this vaccine for our people <65 with our essential workers in the medical field at front.
So we can safely put this „Anti-UK“ crap to rest.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Well, due to the short time, the numbers of tested people have been relatively low.
In the case of AZ, less than 10.000, 850 in the group of >65 and only 2 of them have been infected.
One of the infected people was in the placebo group.
If I was sarcastic, I‘d say that as of today, it seems that the placebo works as good as the AZ vaccine to protect >65 from getting Covid
We don‘t simply know enough - yet!
Certainly not enough data here today to make an exact scientific assessment.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Where is the 'anti uk crap' coming from? It's coming from Europe making a hell of a fuss over a jab they claim doesn't work properly but for some reason are desperate to get their hands on!
The BIB ... Macron has made himself look like an idiot. He's basically gone full Trump as far as the AZ vaccine is concerned and I wonder why ??
https://www.politico.eu/article/emmanuel-macron-reduce-demand-oxford-astrazeneca-coronavirus-vaccine/
The best way I heard the testing and development of the vaccine was like this. If you had one person trying to knit a scarf that was a 1000ft long it would take a long time but if you had a 1000 people working on it at the same time and they did 1ft each it would be done a heck of a lot quicker. This has been how the vaccine has been developed. Also, the regulating bodies have had access to all the data and tests as they have gone along so everything has been done side by side to speed up the whole process.
I have now explained you that Handelsblatt or Guardian mixed the 8% and Bild made a wrong article.
This has been identified within hours, it has been corrected and reported in all main news outlets here on the same day.
And I gave you several times the exact numbers from AZ phase trials to make it more understandable, why the german vaccination committee made their proposal.
It‘s based on concerns from Scientists and it ONLY applies to people over 65.
Nobody says that AZ doesn‘t work.
It‘s simply not greenlit for people over 65 because there is not enough data
And we will use the AZ vaccine for people under 65 as recommended by the national vaccination comittee.
If you still prefer the see an „Anti-Uk Vaccination“ movement here - your choice.
It doesn‘t exist in reality.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I'd like to see exactly where Macron is really saying "that the vaccine is quasi ineffective".
The following theory that Macron is doing that to reduce demand for AZ because we don't get enough is hilarious and just speculation.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
This is what I found on several platforms:
Macron said there was "very little information" available for the vaccine developed by the British-Swedish company and Oxford University. "Today we think that it is quasi-ineffective for people over 65,"
And Macron added:
"What I can tell you officially today is that the early results we have are not encouraging for 60 to 65-year-old people concerning AstraZeneca"
So this John Bell guy is only partially quoting Macron to create a divisive headline and just making a ridiculous speculation about Macron's motives. Macron is far more clever than this, I can assure you.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
You left out the bit were Macron said ' 'I don't have any data, and I don't have a scientific team of my own to look at the numbers.'
So he was giving an opinion without having the information he needed. Very dangerous thing to do in his position.
I see he is also putting off a third lockdown in France. He should at least learn from us that delaying lockdowns only leads to more deaths.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-france-idUSKBN29Z0U4
Oh, and 'this John Bell' is this chap:
https://cpm.well.ox.ac.uk/person/professor-sir-john-bell
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bell_(physician)