Norway has a large number of infected, but so far the number of seriously ill and or dead. The school holliday in week 8 or 9 is an important reason. Many visited the Alps and got infected in northern Italy and Austria.
We should all move to the glorious Democratic People's Republic of Korea, because the authorities there are reporting zero infected! )
Mr MartiniThat nice house in the sky.Posts: 2,707MI6 Agent
Corona is more serious than we thought. European Song Contest 2020 won't happen )
I don’t see the problem...
But guys, I‘m genuinely curious about how this situation is in your respective area: Like the rest of Germany, we‘re strongly advised to reduce social contacts and going out to the absolute minimum here around Munich.
Yet still, there are plenty of people wo still sit at the Isar-banks drinking wine or in the english garden eating ice cream in large gatherings like nothing is going on atm. Quite some people even call Corona a hoax and are very frank about not giving a sh!t about it.
Is this dumb ignorance a local or a global phenomenon?
Curious about your experiences.
I live in San Mateo, CA in the San Francisco Bay Area. As of Tuesday and Wednesday, all nine Bay Area counties are implementing a "shelter in place" Only people who are considered essential workers should be traveling on the roadway. All non-essential business are to close. You are allowed to go for walks and make trips to the grocery store and pharmacy (both considered essential businesses) but respect social distancing which is a space of 6 feet between people. I've seen many police on the road. They aren't really enforcing from what I can tell, just making their presence known. From our news broadcasts (also considered essential workers) they are showing most people are respecting the shelter in place order. Restaurants are staying open, but for delivery and take out only, unless they can keep people seated more than 6 feet apart. Most can't do this, so its pick up and delivery only. So far, lots oof restaurants are losing business because of this. Theres also something else in the shelter in place order about no more than 50 people in a space at once. Not exactly sure how that works are what the size of the business can be to allow more than 50 people in. Basically, stores have to control the flow of people in so it doesn't get overcrowded. I'm sure theres more that I'm missing.
For this interested, the link below has the full order from my County:
If the duties of speaking to a few hundred people on the internet satisfies the individual that he or she is actively contributing against the effects of the virus then I am not going to argue. Perhaps the individual should consider extending the activism into their own communities by reaching out to people (who do not have the internet) and offering them practical assistance.
Would you call government crisis management "contributing against the effects of the virus" or "practical assistance"?
0073. Am I to take it that you are directly involved in government crisis management and/or you are a first responder or health official? Is that your own contribution to the crisis? I am greatly interested to hear and look forward to you clarifying this for me.
If you are part of your government response or the health services then I will be the first to apologise for causing you some offence because what you are doing is indeed very important. I also thank you sincerely for allowing me the privilege of ‘believing what I want’ and of course it goes without saying that I defend your right to ‘believe what you want’.
However, if you are just a medical/scientific layperson who has taken to the internet to ‘protest’ against disinformation, could you please explain how many lives you propose to save as a result? I’m minded to believe that most people who are vulnerable to this virus will not read AJB or other internet forums.
Please, seeing as you appear to take exception to my own efforts, could you enlighten me as to what is so bad about actually going out into the community to help the vulnerable? Also please enlighten me as to the benefits of politicising the effects of the virus? Helping to halt the spread of fake news I can understand, but at this stage who is to say what is fake or not in the first place? I may be wrong but it appears to me that here it is a matter of personal (and it seems political) opinion rather sound medical knowledge which is driving certain posters output here. I also most respectfully suggest that sights can be set in this instance to a shorter range to identify those in need within communities, people who need action of the basic kind not words on internet forums? The political blame game can come when the full facts emerge. Until then people are taking a grain of salt and adding to it to make a cup and in so doing creating their own ‘fake news’. Even the best intentioned – unless they are at the very centre of the health organisations – cannot seriously believe they know what is happening with this virus and expect other people to listen to their advice.
What about the efforts of the first responders and health officials?
You can of course believe what you want, but the current crisis the entire population of the world is facing, will not be resolved with bovine excrement and warm and fluffy feelings, but with hard measures and proven science.
If this pandemic were just a matter of belief, it could be resolved with a song and a prayer!
I just BURN UP!! With all the false information that is spread in the interwebs. Every single piece of factually incorrect rumor that is spread around puts someone in potential mortal danger!
0073. Am I to take it that you are directly involved in government crisis management and/or you are a first responder or health official? Is that your own contribution to the crisis? I am greatly interested to hear and look forward to you clarifying this for me.
Yes I am, my current duties include, but is not limited to, making plans for securing pharmaceutical logistics if things get much worse. So you understand that I have very little sympathy for hoarders. We may make all the toilet paper jokes we want, but it is serious business in the heart of it.
It's nothing personal, it may just be my own frustration boiling over because of the unforgivable lack of speed in the government decision making, in which false information and false hopes and rumors were a big part to blame. Be that as it may, but for me to say that "you may believe what ever you want", was kinda sorta passive aggressive, and I apologise for that.
Without going to specifics, quite a lot of these falsehoods originate in the same places that are already known for their willingness to sow discord in western democracies.
I do understand that a lot of people hope to do good and contribute to their own communities. This is almost always recommendable, but this is not your garden variety seasonal flu. You, or anybody else on this forum might not be the most vulnerable to this virus, but with sound scientific evidence of 14 days incubation period during which you are most likely to both spread it and symptomless, I discourage you most strongly to not to go to the most vulnerable, try to do good in other ways.
Also: there is an abundance of scientific data about this "Novel Coronavirus". It is one of those falsehoods to say that we don't know, we do, we know how to slow it down and how "to flatten the curve". Anybody who says otherwise is plain wrong. It has killed enough people already. We have plenty of autopsy reports to know how it kills, we have socio-economic data on the victims, we have some idea about how spreads and how fast. Believe me, you might not be "the most vulnerable", but you and me and everybody on AJB is a potential victim, this sucker is a killer, not quite Ebola, but a killer never the less: "ECDC estimates that between 15 000 and 75 000 people die prematurely due to causes associated with seasonal influenza each year in the EU, the UK, Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein. This is approximately 1 in every 1 000 people who are infected. By comparison, the current estimated mortality rate for COVID-19 is 20-30 per 1 000 people.
Despite the relatively low mortality rate for seasonal influenza, many people die from the disease due to the large number of people who contract it each year. The concern about COVID-19 is that, unlike influenza, there is no vaccine and no specific treatment for the disease. It also appears to be as transmissible as influenza if not more so. As it is a new virus, nobody has prior immunity which in theory means that the entire human population is potentially susceptible to COVID-19 infection"
"I mean, she almost kills bond...with her ass."
-Mr Arlington Beech
Did you see my post 158 on this thread? As a (probably) sober Finn, do you agree?
Yesh I do agree. {[] Also, statistical data shows, that Finns drink..... oh crap, you're not going to believe me anyways! I'll get a beer, it's been a loooong day already!
"I mean, she almost kills bond...with her ass."
-Mr Arlington Beech
My town, which has had only ONE reported coronavirus case, has really gone draconian--not only gyms, movie theaters and malls closed, but any open stores are allowed to have only TEN people in them at a time. Even backyard barbecues are limited to ten people. Cops will be patrolling for this, and violators are subject to fines that could go up into the thousands of dollars. Never lose an opportunity to make some money for the city. . .
In Finland they say that no more than 10 people should gather together, but currently there are no plans on fining anybody.
Although there was a message circulated in the social media that there were too many kids playing at the local soccerfield.
"I mean, she almost kills bond...with her ass."
-Mr Arlington Beech
Two boys who I used to know were called "mountain apes" by a Danish newspaper when they were only about threteen years old.
When some people reacted the journalists replied: "It's just a term we use for Norwegians. I'm sure have a simmular expression about us".
No, we don't. We have manners instead X-( .
Italy now has 3405 dead from Corona, more than China at 3249. Of course Chinese media only writes what they are told to write, but I still think it's worth mentioning.
0073. Thank you for your reply and it has cleared things up for me. As N24 says, thank you for your efforts.
I would like to clarify a few things though which appear to be confused. We as a church with the other people who are involved, will be taking all precautions as directed by the medical officials, during our efforts to make sure the vulnerable are kept supplied with food, etc for the duration of this crisis. We have not rushed in to this blindly, as we have a long experience of dealing with medically frail people. As it stands ALL contacts are made by telephone NEVER face to face. If shopping is delivered then it is left on the doorstep, there is again no personal contact, just to ring the doorbell to make sure the person knows the supplies are there. We wear gloves when handling foods stuff and while holding the bags. We advise the person to wear gloves when taking in the food so they can not pick up the virus from the handles of the bags etc. I consider what we do is ‘more safe’ than when these people have medicines delivered to their door by the chemist or handling a letter that has been posted and in the hands of sorters and postmen.
Gardening and odd jobs: That is done the same way. It has always been the procedure that we never go into peoples homes anyway. We maintain a large distance at all times now.
The alternative? There is not one. If we weren’t doing this duty then many people in our community would be unable to get food or other supplies, it is as simple as that. Do we carry on and help in the knowledge that there is a possibility that, despite our precautions, we may transmit the disease or do we leave these people shut up behind closed doors without any help at all? It is a balancing act and I already know the answer.
At the bottom rung of this crisis there are many people who have no body to turn to. These people are invisible in their communities. Without help from organisations and charities, they will be left to wither.
Italy now has 3405 dead from Corona, more than China at 3249. Of course Chinese media only writes what they are told to write, but I still think it's worth mentioning.
The good news is that the Nordic countries have practised social distancing for decades!
N24. Given the distance between people, when there are many people waiting to catch the bus, do those at the end of the line ever find that by queing this way, they are already at their destination?!
I think the bus drivers are considerate. My friend who also was my neighbour never left home until the bus was supposed to leave. He usually ran to the bus, but also used his bicycle or tractor. He ate his breakfast in the bus. But the bus driver always waited of for him, bless his heart. My friend's parents bought flavours, and rightly so. That man saved my friend's aducation. )
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,749Chief of Staff
It’s NOT fake news...and 20,000 deaths is a conservative estimate...I work for the NHS and the figures being mentioned are FAR in excess of that...
8-)
Are you having any numbers for Germany?
And what is the consensus in the NHS?
Has valuable time being lost because the leaders basically ignored it until last week and believed too long in Patrick Vallance‘s herd immunity theory?
Alas no numbers for Germany - we are only given ballpark figures for the UK...and they are quite sobering…and well above 20,000
The consensus within the NHS is that the worst is yet to come…
Time is STILL being lost…the government has refused (so far) to close pubs/restaurants/theatres/gyms and other nonessential businesses down - this stops them claiming on their insurance…for some reason the government are protecting the insurance companies - or putting them above working people.
Traffic on the roads has dropped considerably and it’s getting to about a quarter of the workforce (where I work) that are self-isolating already.
Of course working people work in restaurants, pubs etc. too. In a country without a strong welfare state the economic effects of closing places like that are very serious. That kind of establishments are often small businesses that can't afford being closed for a long time. It's very hard to find the right balance between stopping the virus and stopping the economy.
0073. Thank you for your reply and it has cleared things up for me. As N24 says, thank you for your efforts.
..... We as a church with the other people who are involved, will be taking all precautions as directed by the medical officials, during our efforts to make sure the vulnerable are kept supplied with food, etc for the duration of this crisis. We have not rushed in to this blindly, as we have a long experience of dealing with medically frail people. As it stands ALL contacts are made by telephone NEVER face to face. If shopping is delivered then it is left on the doorstep, there is again no personal contact, just to ring the doorbell to make sure the person knows the supplies are there. We wear gloves when handling foods stuff and while holding the bags. We advise the person to wear gloves when taking in the food so they can not pick up the virus from the handles of the bags etc
....
Gardening and odd jobs: That is done the same way. It has always been the procedure that we never go into peoples homes anyway. We maintain a large distance at all times now.
...
At the bottom rung of this crisis there are many people who have no body to turn to. These people are invisible in their communities. Without help from organisations and charities, they will be left to wither.
Thank you.
No need to thank, I consider my work a privilege, you wouldn't thank a king for being in his position now would you?!
Anyways, what you do in your church is very important. The fact that people know that you are there to help, even by itself, keeps them safe. People who know that they are cared for, do not get the feeling of desperation and abandonment, and therefore they are more likely to keep their hopes up, their lives in order and most importantly, they will stay safe when they don't try take matters into their own hands. This is of a matter of most importance when we are talking about infectious disease on a rampage.
Just stay safe, and don't take any risks. It wouldn't do for you go down with this, just when you're needed the most...
Hope springs eternal!
"I mean, she almost kills bond...with her ass."
-Mr Arlington Beech
All actions have consequences and so they do in Bavaria.
Starting at midnight today, the state will be in lockdown for the next 2 weeks with only the most urgent trips possible.
It’s sad that this drastic but utmost necessity step has been made, largely because of people not listening to the government‘s advice.
No, they had to sit in the crowded beergardens like nothing is wrong.
The young (and braindead) purposely coughed at the elderly and shouting „corona“, bbq‘s were also quite popular in public spaces.
It disgusts me how egoistic and wreckless my countrymen really are. Especially after taking into consideration that we’ve already been alerted to possibly be „deployed“ X-(
All actions have consequences and so they do in Bavaria.
Starting at midnight today, the state will be in lockdown for the next 2 weeks with only the most urgent trips possible.
It’s sad that this drastic but utmost necessity step has been made, largely because of people not listening to the government‘s advice.
No, they had to sit in the crowded beergardens like nothing is wrong.
The young (and braindead) purposely coughed at the elderly and shouting „corona“, bbq‘s were also quite popular in public spaces.
It disgusts me how egoistic and wreckless my countrymen really are. Especially after taking into consideration that we’ve already been alerted to possibly be „deployed“ X-(
Sadly the same in the UK. Too many people in denial and just being socially irresponsible. A work colleague has just told me he's going shopping and drinking this weekend as the Government hasn't said he can't. He also said because he's young, he won't be affected too badly. You can imagine what I felt like doing... X-(
We have also had children coughing and spitting at passers by.
There is the possibility of „cooperation between authorities“, meaning that whenever the bavarian or german government ask for it, the army will be assisting in many ways.
„Deployment“ may sound too dramatical.
I understand . The Norwegian Home Guard (National Guard/Territorial Army) is already being used on Oslo airport and at border crossings to check passengers. They are given limited police powers to assist the police.
Side note, my wife and are self-isolating best we can and only going to pick up grocery orders we've done online. Luckily both of us can work from home with really no impact.
Well, as my screen name and avatar should suggest. . .British Victorian literature (actually pretty much all Brit Lit from the Romantics to the present day).
Comments
In a disco there was an infected barkeeper, who was working when he was showing symtoms and he probably infected thousands of international guests.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
We should all move to the glorious Democratic People's Republic of Korea, because the authorities there are reporting zero infected!
For this interested, the link below has the full order from my County:
https://www.smcgov.org/sites/smcgov.org/files/HO%20Order%20Shelter%20in%20Place%2020200316.pdf
Yes I am, my current duties include, but is not limited to, making plans for securing pharmaceutical logistics if things get much worse. So you understand that I have very little sympathy for hoarders. We may make all the toilet paper jokes we want, but it is serious business in the heart of it.
It's nothing personal, it may just be my own frustration boiling over because of the unforgivable lack of speed in the government decision making, in which false information and false hopes and rumors were a big part to blame. Be that as it may, but for me to say that "you may believe what ever you want", was kinda sorta passive aggressive, and I apologise for that.
Without going to specifics, quite a lot of these falsehoods originate in the same places that are already known for their willingness to sow discord in western democracies.
I do understand that a lot of people hope to do good and contribute to their own communities. This is almost always recommendable, but this is not your garden variety seasonal flu. You, or anybody else on this forum might not be the most vulnerable to this virus, but with sound scientific evidence of 14 days incubation period during which you are most likely to both spread it and symptomless, I discourage you most strongly to not to go to the most vulnerable, try to do good in other ways.
Also: there is an abundance of scientific data about this "Novel Coronavirus". It is one of those falsehoods to say that we don't know, we do, we know how to slow it down and how "to flatten the curve". Anybody who says otherwise is plain wrong. It has killed enough people already. We have plenty of autopsy reports to know how it kills, we have socio-economic data on the victims, we have some idea about how spreads and how fast. Believe me, you might not be "the most vulnerable", but you and me and everybody on AJB is a potential victim, this sucker is a killer, not quite Ebola, but a killer never the less: "ECDC estimates that between 15 000 and 75 000 people die prematurely due to causes associated with seasonal influenza each year in the EU, the UK, Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein. This is approximately 1 in every 1 000 people who are infected. By comparison, the current estimated mortality rate for COVID-19 is 20-30 per 1 000 people.
Despite the relatively low mortality rate for seasonal influenza, many people die from the disease due to the large number of people who contract it each year. The concern about COVID-19 is that, unlike influenza, there is no vaccine and no specific treatment for the disease. It also appears to be as transmissible as influenza if not more so. As it is a new virus, nobody has prior immunity which in theory means that the entire human population is potentially susceptible to COVID-19 infection"
-Mr Arlington Beech
Did you see my post 158 on this thread? As a (probably) sober Finn, do you agree?
At least I have never seen one
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Yesh I do agree. {[] Also, statistical data shows, that Finns drink..... oh crap, you're not going to believe me anyways! I'll get a beer, it's been a loooong day already!
-Mr Arlington Beech
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Although there was a message circulated in the social media that there were too many kids playing at the local soccerfield.
-Mr Arlington Beech
When some people reacted the journalists replied: "It's just a term we use for Norwegians. I'm sure have a simmular expression about us".
No, we don't. We have manners instead X-( .
I'm glad this thread hasn't gone off-topic …...
I would like to clarify a few things though which appear to be confused. We as a church with the other people who are involved, will be taking all precautions as directed by the medical officials, during our efforts to make sure the vulnerable are kept supplied with food, etc for the duration of this crisis. We have not rushed in to this blindly, as we have a long experience of dealing with medically frail people. As it stands ALL contacts are made by telephone NEVER face to face. If shopping is delivered then it is left on the doorstep, there is again no personal contact, just to ring the doorbell to make sure the person knows the supplies are there. We wear gloves when handling foods stuff and while holding the bags. We advise the person to wear gloves when taking in the food so they can not pick up the virus from the handles of the bags etc. I consider what we do is ‘more safe’ than when these people have medicines delivered to their door by the chemist or handling a letter that has been posted and in the hands of sorters and postmen.
Gardening and odd jobs: That is done the same way. It has always been the procedure that we never go into peoples homes anyway. We maintain a large distance at all times now.
The alternative? There is not one. If we weren’t doing this duty then many people in our community would be unable to get food or other supplies, it is as simple as that. Do we carry on and help in the knowledge that there is a possibility that, despite our precautions, we may transmit the disease or do we leave these people shut up behind closed doors without any help at all? It is a balancing act and I already know the answer.
At the bottom rung of this crisis there are many people who have no body to turn to. These people are invisible in their communities. Without help from organisations and charities, they will be left to wither.
Thank you.
Never trust the Chinese.
N24. Given the distance between people, when there are many people waiting to catch the bus, do those at the end of the line ever find that by queing this way, they are already at their destination?!
Alas no numbers for Germany - we are only given ballpark figures for the UK...and they are quite sobering…and well above 20,000
The consensus within the NHS is that the worst is yet to come…
Time is STILL being lost…the government has refused (so far) to close pubs/restaurants/theatres/gyms and other nonessential businesses down - this stops them claiming on their insurance…for some reason the government are protecting the insurance companies - or putting them above working people.
Traffic on the roads has dropped considerably and it’s getting to about a quarter of the workforce (where I work) that are self-isolating already.
No need to thank, I consider my work a privilege, you wouldn't thank a king for being in his position now would you?!
Anyways, what you do in your church is very important. The fact that people know that you are there to help, even by itself, keeps them safe. People who know that they are cared for, do not get the feeling of desperation and abandonment, and therefore they are more likely to keep their hopes up, their lives in order and most importantly, they will stay safe when they don't try take matters into their own hands. This is of a matter of most importance when we are talking about infectious disease on a rampage.
Just stay safe, and don't take any risks. It wouldn't do for you go down with this, just when you're needed the most...
Hope springs eternal!
-Mr Arlington Beech
Starting at midnight today, the state will be in lockdown for the next 2 weeks with only the most urgent trips possible.
It’s sad that this drastic but utmost necessity step has been made, largely because of people not listening to the government‘s advice.
No, they had to sit in the crowded beergardens like nothing is wrong.
The young (and braindead) purposely coughed at the elderly and shouting „corona“, bbq‘s were also quite popular in public spaces.
It disgusts me how egoistic and wreckless my countrymen really are. Especially after taking into consideration that we’ve already been alerted to possibly be „deployed“ X-(
IG: @thebondarchives
Check it out, you won’t be disappointed
Sadly the same in the UK. Too many people in denial and just being socially irresponsible. A work colleague has just told me he's going shopping and drinking this weekend as the Government hasn't said he can't. He also said because he's young, he won't be affected too badly. You can imagine what I felt like doing... X-(
We have also had children coughing and spitting at passers by.
There is the possibility of „cooperation between authorities“, meaning that whenever the bavarian or german government ask for it, the army will be assisting in many ways.
„Deployment“ may sound too dramatical.
IG: @thebondarchives
Check it out, you won’t be disappointed
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/coronavirus-patient-1.5502501
Side note, my wife and are self-isolating best we can and only going to pick up grocery orders we've done online. Luckily both of us can work from home with really no impact.
Well, as my screen name and avatar should suggest. . .British Victorian literature (actually pretty much all Brit Lit from the Romantics to the present day).