Good
Dench, Wright are exactly what they should be
Kinnear gets a good introduction to the role of Tanner
The Tosca scene is wonderful
Arnold does his job very well, holding the whole disjointed movie together
Olga and Gemma are fine
Bad
No gunbarrel
The title song (I believe I have made my feelings clear)
The editing. Oh, dear God, the editing.
Greene is a terrible villain, perhaps the worst ever
Elvis is a terrible henchman, perhaps the worst ever
Death of Mathis
Muddy storytelling
The last scene should have been more incorporated into the plot
Perhaps a re-edit would cure at least some of the problems. Maybe another few minutes added to the running time wouldn’t be a bad thing.
One of the things that always seemed absurd about this film is that it cost so much more than Casino Royale to make, yet put so much less quality up on screen, despite being more than half an hour shorter.
Good acting
Good soundtrack
Some good locations
A good villan (with a bad plan)
Some very good dialogue
Good Graphics for the title song.
Gemma Arteron!
Cons:
Really bad title song
Some horrible editing
The worst henchman ever
The villan deserves a much better plan with more urgent stakes.
One of the things that always seemed absurd about this film is that it cost so much more than Casino Royale to make, yet put so much less quality up on screen, despite being more than half an hour shorter.
Good
Dench, Wright are exactly what they should be
Kinnear gets a good introduction to the role of Tanner
The Tosca scene is wonderful
Arnold does his job very well, holding the whole disjointed movie together
Olga and Gemma are fine
Bad
No gunbarrel
The title song (I believe I have made my feelings clear)
The editing. Oh, dear God, the editing.
Greene is a terrible villain, perhaps the worst ever
Elvis is a terrible henchman, perhaps the worst ever
Death of Mathis
Muddy storytelling
The last scene should have been more incorporated into the plot
Perhaps a re-edit would cure at least some of the problems. Maybe another few minutes added to the running time wouldn’t be a bad thing.
I agree with that - except that I like Greene and how he's played (with the caveat that he's more like a 'short story' villain than a Mister Big) and I don't mind the song.
I'm open to harder edged Bond films like this. QOS has strong elements but there could have been a better cut, more coherent version of what this is.
Critics and material I don't need. I haven't changed my act in 53 years.
What would you say about the gunbarrel at the right place and with the gunbarrel music from LTK (not a copy, but the same hard style), the first Bond revenge movie?
Look, here's how the Bond/villain/henchman thing works-
Where the villain is no physical threat to Bond (eg Stromberg) the henchman is (eg Jaws). James could turn Stromberg into hamburger with no effort, but Jaws could destroy Bond without blinking.
Where the villain IS a physical threat to Bond (eg Scaramanga) the henchman is no problem (Nick Nack).
I'm generalising, but you get the idea. One more- Donald Pleasence could not hurt Sean Connery even if he tried, but his bodyguard Hans is formidable.
Here, neither Greene nor Elvis are any threat to Bond (the axe scene notwithstanding- carefully set up) and are not impressive.
In good Bond films, we have to feel 007 is in danger- Sean Bean's character in GE for example, being carefully set up as Bond's equal. Or the invincible henchman, like Oddjob. Part of the fun is seeing how James will overcome the seemingly unsurmountable odds.
In QoS, that just does not happen.
Thunderbird 2East of Cardiff, Wales.Posts: 2,816MI6 Agent
edited June 2020
QoS.....
It’s no secret CR-06 is my favourite Bond film. In my summary I pointed out how all depts were on their A game and it clicked.
QoS over 10 years later still feels like someone lost the instructions and half the pieces have been stuck together with tape and Pritt Stick.
There are places it does redeem itself. David Arnold’s swan song as composer is very good, and as with previous themes his echo motif is present with Vesper’s theme. Ironically that mirrors the scenes it’s attached to, anything with Mathias, and especially that final scene at the end with M.
The film was an experiment on several levels. The use of Greene feels like an attempt to create a Zuckerberg, Tony Blair or Elon Musk type as a Baddie, but the character is too sketchy and lacks depth, agenda or motive. One feels Quantum was supposed to lead to greater more insidious things which we never get.
The hoarding water - arguably Earth’s most essential asset is built and forgotten, and by the end of the film we go full circle. Everything tapers off, leaving the narrative the option to go in several directions.
Perhaps that is QoS’s saddest legacy. Beyond the crass title song, overly painfully choppy action scenes that are ruined and the deep obscure wheels within wheels no plot, are aspects that could have really worked had they stuck with them into and beyond Skyfall. Instead we get SF going off in a completely different direction - apart from the awful “M is mother stuff,” which is only a saving grace to make Dame Judi front and centre. But that is another film...
QoS is a Bond film, but setting aside the cast, music and locations has little meat on its Bones. Perhaps it’s best to be kind, and think of it as an experiment that didn’t quite go to plan.
It did get some things right, though SF and SP would bugger them up!
One this is for certain, there has not been a Bond film like QoS before.
Here’s hoping there won’t be another like it again....
This is Thunderbird 2, how can I be of assistance?
What would you say about the gunbarrel at the right place and with the gunbarrel music from LTK (not a copy, but the same hard style), the first Bond revenge movie?
Look, here's how the Bond/villain/henchman thing works-
Where the villain is no physical threat to Bond (eg Stromberg) the henchman is (eg Jaws). James could turn Stromberg into hamburger with no effort, but Jaws could destroy Bond without blinking.
Where the villain IS a physical threat to Bond (eg Scaramanga) the henchman is no problem (Nick Nack).
I'm generalising, but you get the idea. One more- Donald Pleasence could not hurt Sean Connery even if he tried, but his bodyguard Hans is formidable.
Here, neither Greene nor Elvis are any threat to Bond (the axe scene notwithstanding- carefully set up) and are not impressive.
In good Bond films, we have to feel 007 is in danger- Sean Bean's character in GE for example, being carefully set up as Bond's equal. Or the invincible henchman, like Oddjob. Part of the fun is seeing how James will overcome the seemingly unsurmountable odds.
Look, here's how the Bond/villain/henchman thing works-
Where the villain is no physical threat to Bond (eg Stromberg) the henchman is (eg Jaws). James could turn Stromberg into hamburger with no effort, but Jaws could destroy Bond without blinking.
Where the villain IS a physical threat to Bond (eg Scaramanga) the henchman is no problem (Nick Nack).
I'm generalising, but you get the idea. One more- Donald Pleasence could not hurt Sean Connery even if he tried, but his bodyguard Hans is formidable.
Here, neither Greene nor Elvis are any threat to Bond (the axe scene notwithstanding- carefully set up) and are not impressive.
In good Bond films, we have to feel 007 is in danger- Sean Bean's character in GE for example, being carefully set up as Bond's equal. Or the invincible henchman, like Oddjob. Part of the fun is seeing how James will overcome the seemingly unsurmountable odds.
In QoS, that just does not happen.
Right
Thunderbird Too, but there is an additional aspect to this equation. Many of The Bond baddies have a Quirk, or gadget all their own. Dr No’s hands, Jaws teeth, Klebb’s dagger shoe, Tee Hees arm.
None of the villains in QoS has that aspect. It’s interesting that Silva is deformed and Hinx has his metal thumb nails in the succeeding films.
This is Thunderbird 2, how can I be of assistance?
that's actually a bad thing since I have an improved plot for QoS I think he would like:
An evil idiot called ASP9mm wants to monopolize the world's wristwatch market and replace the competition with plastic watches. :v
Perhaps QOS is interested in the idea that the real threat from the villainy is its insidiousness rather than physical menace. At the point where Bond is bashing the hell out of Slate we feel his physical stuff is not really getting him anywhere because the bad guys have insinuated themselves everywhere.
Quantum is bigger than Greene - and both Greene and Bond know it. Camille's story ends with her revenge but, for Bond, catching up with Vesper's Algerian honey trap guy is not the end because 'the bigger picture' of the villainous network is still out there...
But then SF just dumped Quantum because it was felt that a new tack was needed.
Critics and material I don't need. I haven't changed my act in 53 years.
Thunderbird Too, but there is an additional aspect to this equation. Many of The Bond baddies have a Quirk, or gadget all their own. Dr No’s hands, Jaws teeth, Klebb’s dagger shoe, Tee Hees arm.
The usual way to deal with this is that the villain/henchman is defeated by their own apparent advantage (eg Bond strangles Red Grant with his own watch garotte, Oddjob is electrocuted by his own hat).
Thunderbird Too, but there is an additional aspect to this equation. Many of The Bond baddies have a Quirk, or gadget all their own. Dr No’s hands, Jaws teeth, Klebb’s dagger shoe, Tee Hees arm.
The usual way to deal with this is that the villain/henchman is defeated by their own apparent advantage (eg Bond strangles Red Grant with his own watch garotte, Oddjob is electrocuted by his own hat).
Perhaps QOS is interested in the idea that the real threat from the villainy is its insidiousness rather than physical menace. At the point where Bond is bashing the hell out of Slater we feel his physical stuff is not really getting him anywhere because the bad guys have insinuated themselves everywhere.
Quantum is bigger than Greene - and both Greene and Bond know it. Camille's story ends with her revenge but, for Bond, catching up with Vesper's Algerian honey trap guy is not the end because 'the bigger picture' of the villainous network is still out there...
But then SF just dumped Quantum because it was felt that a new tack was needed.
I don't see SF as the problem. It's equivalent to GF in that after two movies of SPECTRE (DN, FRWL) Bond faces an independent villain, then the evil organisation returns for the 4th movie. Unfortunately, SP proceeds to screw things up by attempting to tie everything together.
Yes, without naming it in SP. How hard would it have been to slip in one or two lines of dialogue (say, in the scene with Mr White) to make things clearer?
Comments
No I mean in the car, when they part ways. The business in the firebomb factory is awful.
Dramatic, but over exposition from earlier.
Craig is virtually sprinting through it. And they should have retained Binder's whorls.
Dench, Wright are exactly what they should be
Kinnear gets a good introduction to the role of Tanner
The Tosca scene is wonderful
Arnold does his job very well, holding the whole disjointed movie together
Olga and Gemma are fine
Bad
No gunbarrel
The title song (I believe I have made my feelings clear)
The editing. Oh, dear God, the editing.
Greene is a terrible villain, perhaps the worst ever
Elvis is a terrible henchman, perhaps the worst ever
Death of Mathis
Muddy storytelling
The last scene should have been more incorporated into the plot
Perhaps a re-edit would cure at least some of the problems. Maybe another few minutes added to the running time wouldn’t be a bad thing.
Indubitably.
It's too rushed.
Do comments automatically update when someone posts?
Good acting
Good soundtrack
Some good locations
A good villan (with a bad plan)
Some very good dialogue
Good Graphics for the title song.
Gemma Arteron!
Cons:
Really bad title song
Some horrible editing
The worst henchman ever
The villan deserves a much better plan with more urgent stakes.
100% agree
I agree with that - except that I like Greene and how he's played (with the caveat that he's more like a 'short story' villain than a Mister Big) and I don't mind the song.
I'm open to harder edged Bond films like this. QOS has strong elements but there could have been a better cut, more coherent version of what this is.
Where the villain is no physical threat to Bond (eg Stromberg) the henchman is (eg Jaws). James could turn Stromberg into hamburger with no effort, but Jaws could destroy Bond without blinking.
Where the villain IS a physical threat to Bond (eg Scaramanga) the henchman is no problem (Nick Nack).
I'm generalising, but you get the idea. One more- Donald Pleasence could not hurt Sean Connery even if he tried, but his bodyguard Hans is formidable.
Here, neither Greene nor Elvis are any threat to Bond (the axe scene notwithstanding- carefully set up) and are not impressive.
In good Bond films, we have to feel 007 is in danger- Sean Bean's character in GE for example, being carefully set up as Bond's equal. Or the invincible henchman, like Oddjob. Part of the fun is seeing how James will overcome the seemingly unsurmountable odds.
In QoS, that just does not happen.
It’s no secret CR-06 is my favourite Bond film. In my summary I pointed out how all depts were on their A game and it clicked.
QoS over 10 years later still feels like someone lost the instructions and half the pieces have been stuck together with tape and Pritt Stick.
There are places it does redeem itself. David Arnold’s swan song as composer is very good, and as with previous themes his echo motif is present with Vesper’s theme. Ironically that mirrors the scenes it’s attached to, anything with Mathias, and especially that final scene at the end with M.
The film was an experiment on several levels. The use of Greene feels like an attempt to create a Zuckerberg, Tony Blair or Elon Musk type as a Baddie, but the character is too sketchy and lacks depth, agenda or motive. One feels Quantum was supposed to lead to greater more insidious things which we never get.
The hoarding water - arguably Earth’s most essential asset is built and forgotten, and by the end of the film we go full circle. Everything tapers off, leaving the narrative the option to go in several directions.
Perhaps that is QoS’s saddest legacy. Beyond the crass title song, overly painfully choppy action scenes that are ruined and the deep obscure wheels within wheels no plot, are aspects that could have really worked had they stuck with them into and beyond Skyfall. Instead we get SF going off in a completely different direction - apart from the awful “M is mother stuff,” which is only a saving grace to make Dame Judi front and centre. But that is another film...
QoS is a Bond film, but setting aside the cast, music and locations has little meat on its Bones. Perhaps it’s best to be kind, and think of it as an experiment that didn’t quite go to plan.
It did get some things right, though SF and SP would bugger them up!
One this is for certain, there has not been a Bond film like QoS before.
Here’s hoping there won’t be another like it again....
It would not hurt.
Right
Good summation. Well done!
Unfortunately not- not enough participants available
Thunderbird Too, but there is an additional aspect to this equation. Many of The Bond baddies have a Quirk, or gadget all their own. Dr No’s hands, Jaws teeth, Klebb’s dagger shoe, Tee Hees arm.
None of the villains in QoS has that aspect. It’s interesting that Silva is deformed and Hinx has his metal thumb nails in the succeeding films.
An evil idiot called ASP9mm wants to monopolize the world's wristwatch market and replace the competition with plastic watches. :v
Oh, the two of them would love that!
Quantum is bigger than Greene - and both Greene and Bond know it. Camille's story ends with her revenge but, for Bond, catching up with Vesper's Algerian honey trap guy is not the end because 'the bigger picture' of the villainous network is still out there...
But then SF just dumped Quantum because it was felt that a new tack was needed.
The usual way to deal with this is that the villain/henchman is defeated by their own apparent advantage (eg Bond strangles Red Grant with his own watch garotte, Oddjob is electrocuted by his own hat).
Bond suffocates Elvis with his toupee?
I don't see SF as the problem. It's equivalent to GF in that after two movies of SPECTRE (DN, FRWL) Bond faces an independent villain, then the evil organisation returns for the 4th movie. Unfortunately, SP proceeds to screw things up by attempting to tie everything together.