I'm stating the obvious but a lot of this finger-pointing feels like it's fueled by pure selfishness. We're using Bond to bemoan the "death of cinemas"? FOH. People are grouchy that they can't have the thing they want NOW NOW NOW.
Movie theaters should've taken note that no one showed up for Tenet and prepared accordingly. They didn't and that's fine - this situation is unprecedented - but watching Tenet's performance and then pinning all their hopes on Bond was kind of stupid.
Also, don't tell me these corporations won't find the funds to immediately re-open when it's safe to do so. They want to blame someone else for their layoffs.
One look at this forum, full of people who live and breathe James Bond, and seeing how many are saying they won't see it in a theater, you'd have to be a dummy to put the film out in such a climate.
It’s a bit “chicken and egg”. People won’t go to the cinema if there’s nothing to see.
Tenet isn’t ever likely to compete with James Bond. For a start it was rubbish, complex and didn’t have the broad appeal.
Anyway the decision is so the whole discussion is moot and frustrating but I can’t help wonder if there was a solution that would’ve worked for all parties.
Just a theory but maybe the delay is to do with Trump getting the virus and being admitted to hospital. I think they postponed the film and he announced he was sick on the same day. Earlier this year, DC said in his GQ interview, that the film would criticise/reference Trump (and Brexit). Maybe this is what it's all about. Why release all the new promotional material just a few days ago? You run the risk of losing viewers/offending people with this type of thing especially with recent political events.
I really doubt NTTD will reference Trump or Brexit, and especially not critizise those issues. First of all it would quickly date the movie, much like "Margereth Thatcher" in FYEO. If NTTD somehow takes sides on one of these issues it will upset about half of the potential audience in two important markets and probably make sure they won't watch it.
Even if Trump is mentioned in NTTD I can't imagine it's more than a line or two, hardly a good enough reason to delay a major movie for for months! Trump will almost certainly be well again in weeks, I think.
One look at this forum, full of people who live and breathe James Bond, and seeing how many are saying they won't see it in a theater, you'd have to be a dummy to put the film out in such a climate.
Exactly!
And I‘ve made the decision weeks ago, that I‘ll not see NTTD in the cinema in November - and that included the potential Cast&Crew Premiere that I may have been attending.
The idea of having (relatively) full cinemas in November for a Bond movie is just crazy!
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
oh my...I'm done with 2020 srsly, the whole year, the whole beginning of this decade is cursed and doomed I have the feeling that Bond will be delayed again...to be honest I would love to see that movie but I wasn't really in the mood for it in Nov, this situation makes me a bit depressed. if Nttd had been released in Nov it would be difficult for me to lean back and enjoy the movie like I normally do. hope to see that movie when the world is in a better shape, whenever that is <_<
They really haven't. Estimates for VOD are between $60 - 90 million. Add that to the box office of $66 million and you've got around $150 million at best. While that would be an okay take for a small film, Mulan's budget was $200 million, not including all the marketing costs.
October 5th they should announce dropping on VOD and put everyone out of their misery.
You've already killed the theatres by delaying anyway. How many cinemas will still be in business for next year?
They did not kill theaters. An existential threat combined with ineffective responses by governments "killed" theaters. Governments could just, you know, cut checks to theaters to cover fixed costs until operations resume.
Theaters are open in much of the US and, guess what, people aren't going. Business owners may want people to behave as if there is no pandemic, but we won't. I have no doubt that cinema will be changed forever by this. But so will many things. Restaurants, airline travel, business meetings, fashion, etc.
The thing about this latest postponement that galls me is thinking of all the delays prior to the pandemic. If they'd even stuck with their February 14, 2020 date, they'd have been fine and had the highest grossing film of the year. The movie would be have made a mint on-demand and Blu-Ray while people were stuck at home, too.
This is what I struggle with to Chevarian. If April 2020 was the original release date then I would have a lot less frustration and more empathy for EON. Unfortunately it is due to their own production woes that the film was put right in the covid release date bracket in the first place. We should each be holding a copy of this film in our hands right now.
Yes it’s tough waiting and then just think of the wait for news on what’s next after Craig gets his big bow? Yikes I shudder! J/k but it sucks waiting.
Mr MartiniThat nice house in the sky.Posts: 2,707MI6 Agent
Not releasing NTTD has all but killed UK (and probably us cinema).
Lets remember it's the pandemic, and not Bond that will have caused this. There is a good chance by release we may be faced with further restrictions, local, or even full lockdowns, in many places. I honestly think they have made the right call.... I don't think at this knife-edge point in time we should be encouraging any form of social gathering. We certainly would not be going, and most people I know feel the same, and are avoiding any possible risk. I'm not prepared to put my, or my families life at risk for a bloody film, no matter how much I want to see it.... and I really want to see it.
Maybe they should have considered VOD... I can't see things being better by April, though I desperately hope they are. If it's just about money I think they would get a great return on a digital distribution, and maybe encourage people to see it at a later date at a theatre. I would certainly pay to see it again in a cinema, when it is safe to do so.
At this point I'd be willing to buy the movie on a Blu-Ray disk. They could package an incentive in the DVD/Blu-Ray/4K packaging to see the movie in the theater. There could be many possibilities for incentives.
Some people would complain even if you hang them with a new rope
They just need to release the movie like Disney did with Mulan. If not, this better be one of the best Bond movies with all the extra time they have with the movie just sitting there. They have no excuse for stupid plot holes or creating a Bond movie I'll never watch in full again like Tomorrow Never Dies, Die Another Day, Quantum of Solace, or Skyfall.
Mulan flopped, didn't it?
They're really hoping for that big cinema release. Skyfall surpassed a billion and Spectre made a cool 880 million. They'll want to recreate some of those numbers. IMHO I doubt if they'll make that even if there is no worries or concerns about covid come April. I struggle a bit with the news just because nz is doing so well, I'm sure the film would have done quite respectable in nz in November. But I hear its tough in places like UK and US.
I'm sure if April is looking positive they'll go all out with a proper premiere and all the bunting and banners.
“The scent and smoke and sweat of a casino are nauseating at three in the morning. "
-Casino Royale, Ian Fleming
They just need to release the movie like Disney did with Mulan.
On what streaming service? MGM's Epix, Universal's Peacock...? Neither are available internationally. Mulan worked for VOD because of the established Disney+, but even with that popular streaming service with over 60 million subscribers, it's only made around $60-90 million. It also had a brief time in cinemas, making around $65 million. NTTD would not have that.
So what streaming service would NTTD be released on—hey what about Netflix or Amazon Prime, they're big ones...? If they did that, as it's not MGM's service, I'm assuming they would probably have to pay that service a fee to host the content, plus a cut of any premium fee (like Mulan's $30) to watch it. Even if it made double what Mulan did on Disney+, say around $150 million, NTTD's budget is $250 million, plus A LOT more in marketing costs. They would lose a lot. Bond movies can easily get close to, or make more than, a billion. I think MGM are happy to hold of a release until they could hit close to those numbers.
And of course there's the piracy factor as well. The moment it hits a streaming service it will be available on every torrent site on the net.
If not, this better be one of the best Bond movies with all the extra time they have with the movie just sitting there. They have no excuse for stupid plot holes or creating a Bond movie I'll never watch in full again like Tomorrow Never Dies, Die Another Day, Quantum of Solace, or Skyfall.
The movie's been locked up since March/April and according to Fukunaga, no changed have or will be made before release.
NTTD has now been delayed so many times, it’s come to the point where I say: Just stop giving us release dates. You’re not gonna meet them anyway so just postpone it indefinitely and be done with it!
Delaying it due to the virus I somewhat could get around in a calm moment but always attaching a new date to it just to call it all off last minute is a constant kick in the nutz.
I'm also sure they've been looking at the box-office for Tenet, and adjusting the possible
profit for NTTD. Come April we may be coming out of the virus but restrictions will probable
still be in place ( for surviving cinemas ) with limited seating, limited showings.
Not to mention the amount of unemployment that may well be in place after Christmas.
Sadly, I think they'll lose money with NTTD, no disrespect to the movie, as I think it
looks great but the cards are stacked against it. I doubt even a paid streaming release
will not bring in the expected bucks.
I really Hope to be proved wrong I'd love NTTD to be one of the biggest hits of 2021 -{
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
One look at this forum, full of people who live and breathe James Bond, and seeing how many are saying they won't see it in a theater, you'd have to be a dummy to put the film out in such a climate.
Exactly!
And I‘ve made the decision weeks ago, that I‘ll not see NTTD in the cinema in November - and that included the potential Cast&Crew Premiere that I may have been attending.
The idea of having (relatively) full cinemas in November for a Bond movie is just crazy!
Agreed, I wasn’t going to see it either. There was no path to success in November. And it won’t premier in April either. Ah well. As others have pointed out, there are bigger things afoot at the moment.
If it didn't take them so darn long to make a Bond film, they would have had it out a while back, before COVID.
"I don't know if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or imbeciles who mean it."-Mark Twain
'Just because nobody complains doesn't mean all parachutes are perfect.'- Benny Hill (1924-1992)
PPK 7.65mmSaratoga Springs NY USAPosts: 1,253MI6 Agent
@Ammo08, I agree, plus if they had stuck to the plan of releasing it in February 2020 like Eon had originally planned we would likely be buying copies of the film on Blu Ray/ DVD. In spite of the extra wait that the pandemic has forced on everyone, I am sure that the movie will be worth it.
I'm hoping for an April 2021 release but still can't see life being back to normal at all by then, and certainly people won't be rushing back to the cinema (especially older folks), perhaps Eon were willing to accept this for the November release, up until it's last minute change of mind (definitely the right decision, with the second wave taking hold), so they may stick with the April release to get it over and done with and finally accept less profit than they had hoped. I hope things will be brighter at least by then. Either that or they will delay again to November when things 'should be' back to normal.
I agree with AugustWalker that they should probably say we 'hope to' release in Spring 2021, possibly April, but we'll have to see how things are. Rather than stating a new release date each time. By all means they can book their slot, they just don't need to publicize it. (Perhaps they have already booked another slot for November 2021?) Obviously, they can't control Covid, but they can control their press releases.
"Any of the opposition around..?"
Mr MartiniThat nice house in the sky.Posts: 2,707MI6 Agent
I'm hoping for an April 2021 release but still can't see life being back to normal at all by then, and certainly people won't be rushing back to the cinema (especially older folks), perhaps Eon were willing to accept this for the November release, up until it's last minute change of mind (definitely the right decision, with the second wave taking hold), so they may stick with the April release to get it over and done with and finally accept less profit than they had hoped. I hope things will be brighter at least by then. Either that or they will delay again to November when things 'should be' back to normal.
I agree with AugustWalker that they should probably say we 'hope to' release in Spring 2021, possibly April, but we'll have to see how things are. Rather than stating a new release date each time. By all means they can book their slot, they just don't need to publicize it. (Perhaps they have already booked another slot for November 2021?) Obviously, they can't control Covid, but they can control their press releases.
I'm not sure how the rest of the World is, but cinemas in my County in California (San Mateo) have re-opened. Capacity is be being limited. Maybe once theaters are open across the World, EON can do a duel release. When I say duel release, open in Theaters and Imax theaters and do the VOD thing to.
As Red Kind mentions, Eon is most likely going to have to accept a loss on this film. Hopefully with theater releases, VoD releases and finally home media releases they can break even.
One more thing I've seen is what AMC theaters is doing. You can rent a theater for $149 for yourself and a small number of friends. Thats for the movie only, no snacks. AMC will let you bring in your own snacks, but the price jumps up to over $200 for the rental.
Some people would complain even if you hang them with a new rope
We just did the rent a theater thing for my daughters birthday, I think it was only $99 here, it was a B&B Cinema rather than AMC. Our theaters are open, but there is one very near my home and I've not seen more that 6-8 cars in the lot since they opened a month or so ago, they have to be hurting big time (despite the price of popcorn ) ) and I wonder if any of them can even hold on until April.
I'm hoping for an April 2021 release but still can't see life being back to normal at all by then, and certainly people won't be rushing back to the cinema (especially older folks), perhaps Eon were willing to accept this for the November release, up until it's last minute change of mind (definitely the right decision, with the second wave taking hold), so they may stick with the April release to get it over and done with and finally accept less profit than they had hoped. I hope things will be brighter at least by then. Either that or they will delay again to November when things 'should be' back to normal.
I agree with AugustWalker that they should probably say we 'hope to' release in Spring 2021, possibly April, but we'll have to see how things are. Rather than stating a new release date each time. By all means they can book their slot, they just don't need to publicize it. (Perhaps they have already booked another slot for November 2021?) Obviously, they can't control Covid, but they can control their press releases.
I'm not sure how the rest of the World is, but cinemas in my County in California (San Mateo) have re-opened. Capacity is be being limited. Maybe once theaters are open across the World, EON can do a duel release. When I say duel release, open in Theaters and Imax theaters and do the VOD thing to.
As Red Kind mentions, Eon is most likely going to have to accept a loss on this film. Hopefully with theater releases, VoD releases and finally home media releases they can break even.
One more thing I've seen is what AMC theaters is doing. You can rent a theater for $149 for yourself and a small number of friends. Thats for the movie only, no snacks. AMC will let you bring in your own snacks, but the price jumps up to over $200 for the rental.
I was in contact with a few local cinemas recently (since I‘ve been bugging them ever since for all of their NTTD-promo stuff): They say they can survive atm but at some point in the nearer future, the movies in general should start coming out again. They too were counting on Bond, luckily for them, there‘s a german (bavarian) movie coming out in a couple of weeks, kinda saving them.
On another note: I‘ve watched a great Youtube video of two movie reviewers discussing the delay of all these blockbusters like NTTD: they discuss the risk-to-benefit ratio of always ramping up a marketing campaign to full swing only to call it of last minute.
Also a very great conclusion was that the movie industry can‘t face reality and fails to adapt to the current situation. Pushing back EVERYTHING to at least 2021 will not only put cinemas at great risk now but also will lead to a very cramped 2021-season which could also have a negative impact on box offices.
Comments
Movie theaters should've taken note that no one showed up for Tenet and prepared accordingly. They didn't and that's fine - this situation is unprecedented - but watching Tenet's performance and then pinning all their hopes on Bond was kind of stupid.
Also, don't tell me these corporations won't find the funds to immediately re-open when it's safe to do so. They want to blame someone else for their layoffs.
Tenet isn’t ever likely to compete with James Bond. For a start it was rubbish, complex and didn’t have the broad appeal.
Anyway the decision is so the whole discussion is moot and frustrating but I can’t help wonder if there was a solution that would’ve worked for all parties.
https://collider.com/dune-movie-new-release-date-delayed-2021/
Even if Trump is mentioned in NTTD I can't imagine it's more than a line or two, hardly a good enough reason to delay a major movie for for months! Trump will almost certainly be well again in weeks, I think.
Exactly!
And I‘ve made the decision weeks ago, that I‘ll not see NTTD in the cinema in November - and that included the potential Cast&Crew Premiere that I may have been attending.
The idea of having (relatively) full cinemas in November for a Bond movie is just crazy!
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
has been confirmed by Warner Bros now.
oh my...I'm done with 2020 srsly, the whole year, the whole beginning of this decade is cursed and doomed
They really haven't. Estimates for VOD are between $60 - 90 million. Add that to the box office of $66 million and you've got around $150 million at best. While that would be an okay take for a small film, Mulan's budget was $200 million, not including all the marketing costs.
This is what I struggle with to Chevarian. If April 2020 was the original release date then I would have a lot less frustration and more empathy for EON. Unfortunately it is due to their own production woes that the film was put right in the covid release date bracket in the first place. We should each be holding a copy of this film in our hands right now.
At this point I'd be willing to buy the movie on a Blu-Ray disk. They could package an incentive in the DVD/Blu-Ray/4K packaging to see the movie in the theater. There could be many possibilities for incentives.
They're really hoping for that big cinema release. Skyfall surpassed a billion and Spectre made a cool 880 million. They'll want to recreate some of those numbers. IMHO I doubt if they'll make that even if there is no worries or concerns about covid come April. I struggle a bit with the news just because nz is doing so well, I'm sure the film would have done quite respectable in nz in November. But I hear its tough in places like UK and US.
I'm sure if April is looking positive they'll go all out with a proper premiere and all the bunting and banners.
-Casino Royale, Ian Fleming
On what streaming service? MGM's Epix, Universal's Peacock...? Neither are available internationally. Mulan worked for VOD because of the established Disney+, but even with that popular streaming service with over 60 million subscribers, it's only made around $60-90 million. It also had a brief time in cinemas, making around $65 million. NTTD would not have that.
So what streaming service would NTTD be released on—hey what about Netflix or Amazon Prime, they're big ones...? If they did that, as it's not MGM's service, I'm assuming they would probably have to pay that service a fee to host the content, plus a cut of any premium fee (like Mulan's $30) to watch it. Even if it made double what Mulan did on Disney+, say around $150 million, NTTD's budget is $250 million, plus A LOT more in marketing costs. They would lose a lot. Bond movies can easily get close to, or make more than, a billion. I think MGM are happy to hold of a release until they could hit close to those numbers.
And of course there's the piracy factor as well. The moment it hits a streaming service it will be available on every torrent site on the net.
The movie's been locked up since March/April and according to Fukunaga, no changed have or will be made before release.
This is just underlining what a shitty situation we’re all in at the moment. It’s quite depressing really.
expecting another delay.
Delaying it due to the virus I somewhat could get around in a calm moment but always attaching a new date to it just to call it all off last minute is a constant kick in the nutz.
IG: @thebondarchives
Check it out, you won’t be disappointed
profit for NTTD. Come April we may be coming out of the virus but restrictions will probable
still be in place ( for surviving cinemas ) with limited seating, limited showings.
Not to mention the amount of unemployment that may well be in place after Christmas.
Sadly, I think they'll lose money with NTTD, no disrespect to the movie, as I think it
looks great but the cards are stacked against it. I doubt even a paid streaming release
will not bring in the expected bucks.
I really Hope to be proved wrong I'd love NTTD to be one of the biggest hits of 2021 -{
Agreed, I wasn’t going to see it either. There was no path to success in November. And it won’t premier in April either. Ah well. As others have pointed out, there are bigger things afoot at the moment.
'Just because nobody complains doesn't mean all parachutes are perfect.'- Benny Hill (1924-1992)
I agree with AugustWalker that they should probably say we 'hope to' release in Spring 2021, possibly April, but we'll have to see how things are. Rather than stating a new release date each time. By all means they can book their slot, they just don't need to publicize it. (Perhaps they have already booked another slot for November 2021?) Obviously, they can't control Covid, but they can control their press releases.
I'm not sure how the rest of the World is, but cinemas in my County in California (San Mateo) have re-opened. Capacity is be being limited. Maybe once theaters are open across the World, EON can do a duel release. When I say duel release, open in Theaters and Imax theaters and do the VOD thing to.
As Red Kind mentions, Eon is most likely going to have to accept a loss on this film. Hopefully with theater releases, VoD releases and finally home media releases they can break even.
One more thing I've seen is what AMC theaters is doing. You can rent a theater for $149 for yourself and a small number of friends. Thats for the movie only, no snacks. AMC will let you bring in your own snacks, but the price jumps up to over $200 for the rental.
On another note: I‘ve watched a great Youtube video of two movie reviewers discussing the delay of all these blockbusters like NTTD: they discuss the risk-to-benefit ratio of always ramping up a marketing campaign to full swing only to call it of last minute.
Also a very great conclusion was that the movie industry can‘t face reality and fails to adapt to the current situation. Pushing back EVERYTHING to at least 2021 will not only put cinemas at great risk now but also will lead to a very cramped 2021-season which could also have a negative impact on box offices.
Here’s the full link:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xu_16YhCTOM
IG: @thebondarchives
Check it out, you won’t be disappointed