Matt, do you know why they wouldn't even do it bespoke back then? I thought that was the whole point!
I wish I knew! I can only imagine that there was someone who didn't like the cuff and didn't think it represented the best that Turnbull & Asser could be. I prefer the Connery cuff but I have happily worn their modern cuff too.
The point of bespoke is not to get whatever you want. It's is mostly about fit and being able to chose what you want rather than dictate what you want. What defines bespoke is that you have your own pattern. Most people don't come into a bespoke shop with the expectation of being a clothing designer, and bespoke clothiers generally don't want that, though some can be very flexible. Turnbull & Asser are a very flexible place today for bespoke, and some of the things they've done truly surprise me.
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,535MI6 Agent
edited November 2020
They just didn’t make or offer cocktail cuffs for a very long time. I started using T&A In 1988 due to my dad being a long standing customer who took me in one day to be fitted. I think I first asked about the cuff in 92’ or 93’ and it just wasn’t offered. I think it was a good eight to ten years later before they were willing to make it in bespoke. It was a half way house between screen accurate and the profile they have been offering on their ready to wear for the last few years. But they did finally concede, upon request, to an accurate profile in bespoke a few years back.
I think it was largely down to demand. There was none. During the 90’s it was very difficult to get a cocktail cuff shirt. Hardly anyone really knew about them. Even now they are a niche market. Also Bond was looked down upon by T&A. If you went in there during the time of the first three Brosnan films and asked about Bond, it was akin to a stranger walking into a Wild West Saloon and ordering a Shirley Temple. Ahhh, those were the days.
Yes, Steve- the TWINE French Blue Royal Oxford has the fabric code 6041 and has a 3 button cuff and the No.3 Collar. Mine's being made as I type. The factory's still open during our 2nd lockdown, due to start on Thursday, so I should be able to pick it up, along with the cream Brosnan TND shirt that Brosnan wears with the Hamburg Tie, when the store reopens in early December. So keep an eye out for the second part of the film....
Excellent video Blair. I would have to start saving if they make the TWINE blue shirt. Fabric 6041?
Sorry to bother you with this, Blair - but I can't seem to find this particular fabric in T&A's website, do you know whether they have it listed under a different name? There is a "light blue" Royal Oxford shirt, I don't know whether this would be the right one. Thanks in advance!
"Enjoy it while it lasts."
"The very words I live by."
They just didn’t make or offer cocktail cuffs for a very long time. I started using T&A In 1988 due to my dad being a long standing customer who took me in one day to be fitted. I think I first asked about the cuff in 92’ or 93’ and it just wasn’t offered. I think it was a good eight to ten years later before they were willing to make it in bespoke. It was a half way house between screen accurate and the profile they have been offering on their ready to wear for the last few years. But they did finally concede, upon request, to an accurate profile in bespoke a few years back.
I think it was largely down to demand. There was none. During the 90’s it was very difficult to get a cocktail cuff shirt. Hardly anyone really knew about them. Even now they are a niche market. Also Bond was looked down upon by T&A. If you went in there during the time of the first three Brosnan films and asked about Bond, it was akin to a stranger walking into a Wild West Saloon and ordering a Shirley Temple. Ahhh, those were the days.
There’s definitely been a changing of the guard at parts of T&A. The fact that the current store manager at jermyn st had a cameo in DAD probably helps...
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,535MI6 Agent
There’s definitely been a changing of the guard at parts of T&A. The fact that the current store manager at jermyn st had a cameo in DAD probably helps...
I have some great anecdotes from that period. There was one assistant at the time of TWINE who was very into Bond, and he always ushered people into the corner so the other assistants couldn’t hear. One older stalwart of the store would visibly sigh and look at his colleagues with disdain if you asked about Bond ties, and ask when wrapping if you’d want it wrapped as it was ‘obviously’ a gift. That certainly doesn’t happen any more and they really embrace the connection now. If you want that old experience it can still be had at Tom Ford in Knightsbridge though
There’s definitely been a changing of the guard at parts of T&A. The fact that the current store manager at jermyn st had a cameo in DAD probably helps...
I have some great anecdotes from that period. There was one assistant at the time of TWINE who was very into Bond, and he always ushered people into the corner so the other assistants couldn’t hear. One older stalwart of the store would visibly sigh and look at his colleagues with disdain if you asked about Bond ties, and ask when wrapping if you’d want it wrapped as it was ‘obviously’ a gift. That certainly doesn’t happen any more and they really embrace the connection now. If you want that old experience it can still be had at Tom Ford in Knightsbridge though
Do you find that’s true for Bury St too? (Royal warrant holder still runs the show there)
There’s definitely been a changing of the guard at parts of T&A. The fact that the current store manager at jermyn st had a cameo in DAD probably helps...
I have some great anecdotes from that period. There was one assistant at the time of TWINE who was very into Bond, and he always ushered people into the corner so the other assistants couldn’t hear. One older stalwart of the store would visibly sigh and look at his colleagues with disdain if you asked about Bond ties, and ask when wrapping if you’d want it wrapped as it was ‘obviously’ a gift. That certainly doesn’t happen any more and they really embrace the connection now. If you want that old experience it can still be had at Tom Ford in Knightsbridge though
Do you find that’s true for Bury St too? (Royal warrant holder still runs the show there)
I can say that Mr Quin was kind enough to show me the patterns they had for Connery and Brosnan when I visited 8 years ago. He's done quite a lot for Bond now and doesn't shy away from it.
No problem at all. I just clarified with James Cook. He tells me that the Head Office changed the codes on the website. He confirms that the French Blue Oxford ids on the site as The Deep Blue Oxford Cotton with the new code 5306. They all still know it 6041 in store though. I'm checking on the revised codes for the other Brosnan shirts now.
Yes, Steve- the TWINE French Blue Royal Oxford has the fabric code 6041 and has a 3 button cuff and the No.3 Collar. Mine's being made as I type. The factory's still open during our 2nd lockdown, due to start on Thursday, so I should be able to pick it up, along with the cream Brosnan TND shirt that Brosnan wears with the Hamburg Tie, when the store reopens in early December. So keep an eye out for the second part of the film....
Excellent video Blair. I would have to start saving if they make the TWINE blue shirt. Fabric 6041?
Sorry to bother you with this, Blair - but I can't seem to find this particular fabric in T&A's website, do you know whether they have it listed under a different name? There is a "light blue" Royal Oxford shirt, I don't know whether this would be the right one. Thanks in advance!
There’s definitely been a changing of the guard at parts of T&A. The fact that the current store manager at jermyn st had a cameo in DAD probably helps...
I have some great anecdotes from that period. There was one assistant at the time of TWINE who was very into Bond, and he always ushered people into the corner so the other assistants couldn’t hear. One older stalwart of the store would visibly sigh and look at his colleagues with disdain if you asked about Bond ties, and ask when wrapping if you’d want it wrapped as it was ‘obviously’ a gift. That certainly doesn’t happen any more and they really embrace the connection now. If you want that old experience it can still be had at Tom Ford in Knightsbridge though
Do you find that’s true for Bury St too? (Royal warrant holder still runs the show there)
Never had any issues there at all.
Great to see T&A with a Bond window again. The last And possibly the first one was 2006.
.................................
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,535MI6 Agent
I’ve just been going back looking at the premiere brochures and cast and crew screenings I went to for TND and TWINE. During the cast and crew screening for TND which was in the morning at The Odeon, Leics Sq. I went out and bought the two ties at T&A and a Silk black knitted tie. The TND were £55 each and the knitted £45 I then went to Scott’s which was very different and far more appealing than it is now. Downstairs at Scott’s. Those were great times. In 1999, the TWINE cast and crew screening was also in the morning, but at the Empire Leics Sq. I Did the same thing, although for some reason, I stopped off at TFI Fridays before going to Jermyn St. I bought the Thames tie and the incorrect all black, but correct pattern Bilbao tie, along with the correct and silver version of the same tie. They had gone up to £65 each. A disgrace ) I then went to Church’s and bought Presley’s and Oxfords. Before retiring to downstairs at Scott’s in Mount S.T. £10.50 for a large vodka martini. In 97’ they had only been £6.50. Blimey
I’ve just been going back looking at the premiere brochures and cast and crew screenings I went to for TND and TWINE. During the cast and crew screening for TND which was in the morning at The Odeon, Leics Sq. I went out and bought the two ties at T&A and a Silk black knitted tie. The TND were £55 each and the knitted £45 I then went to Scott’s which was very different and far more appealing than it is now. Downstairs at Scott’s. Those were great times. In 1999, the TWINE cast and crew screening was also in the morning, but at the Empire Leics Sq. I Did the same thing, although for some reason, I stopped off at TFI Fridays before going to Jermyn St. I bought the Thames tie and the incorrect all black, but correct pattern Bilbao tie, along with the correct and silver version of the same tie. They had gone up to £65 each. A disgrace ) I then went to Church’s and bought Presley’s and Oxfords. Before retiring to downstairs at Scott’s in Mount S.T. £10.50 for a large vodka martini. In 97’ they had only been £6.50. Blimey
Jesus lol. Anyone who wants to be a lifelong customer there better continue climbing the financial ladder, as keeping up with inflation won’t be enough )
Do you know if the collar with that shirt is a standard Number 3 or if it was raised up 1/8"? From what I can tell in the film, it looks like it's their slightly higher version. Most of Brosnan's collars are slightly raised versions of the standard collars. Though the TWINE collar is based on a design that was originally a higher two-button collar from someone who used to work in the New York store.
When you say raised up by 1/8”, does that just refer to the base/band of the collar?
Do you know if the collar with that shirt is a standard Number 3 or if it was raised up 1/8"? From what I can tell in the film, it looks like it's their slightly higher version. Most of Brosnan's collars are slightly raised versions of the standard collars. Though the TWINE collar is based on a design that was originally a higher two-button collar from someone who used to work in the New York store.
When you say raised up by 1/8”, does that just refer to the base/band of the collar?
When they say that at T&A, they're doing it to every part of the collar. It may be possible for just the band and rear height of the collar to be increased without increasing the points, but then I'm not sure if the points would be long enough to sit on the chest.
Enjoyed the video Blair, well done for all those involved.
So glad I purchased the three 'original' ties last year before the price hike, one thousand pounds for 6 ties..............not sure about that
Anyone else think the T&A version of the Bilbao tie doesn't really look exactly like the one from the movie? (not talking about color, which is always hard to judge, particularly with this tie)
In this close-up picture I count 13 gold stripes on the horizontal knot part of 007’s tie.
In the picture on the T&A page, I count only 8.
Maybe that’s where the visual difference lies??
I just wanted to reassure everyone that all comments regarding things that you liked from this current James Bond collection or things which may need tweaking for the future will definitely be passed along to T&A.
Our experience of the T&A team is that they spend an amazing amount of time trying to make things as perfect as possible. This work is beautifully represented in the completely reengineered 'cocktail cuff', and also the stunning Tomorrow Never Dies gold tie, where the tie silk was remade over a dozen times to match the gold fabric identically to the original.
They also really appreciate all feedback from the Bond Community because it helps them to develop products that fans of the films will treasure.
My last video at Jermyn Street was very much a film they allowed us to make to say a HUGE 'Thank you' to all the fans for all of their kindness and patience over the past few years. As a result it was packed full of Bond information gems that we all knew would bring a smile to everyone's face.
There's also lots more to discuss in a future film, such as, "How long the collection will be available for", and also "What fans may like to see if there is a future Bond collection". Hence, the Bond Community is really important to the project moving forwards, and I very much hope that you can support us with your infinite wisdom, kind generosity and definitely a jovial sense of humour.
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,535MI6 Agent
If they do tweak this tie then I suggest that anyone who is remotely interested in it gets one now. It looks amazing.
T&A should also add their slim grenadine blue tie to the Bond collection also. And black knitted. The grenadine is obviously the perfect accompaniment to the Dr No shirt.
I saw that they showed you Brosnan's pattern while you visited Bury St. Did you get a chance to jot down the precise measurements of his TWINE collar? Ie height of collar band, tie space and length of points?
I saw that they showed you Brosnan's pattern while you visited Bury St. Did you get a chance to jot down the precise measurements of his TWINE collar? Ie height of collar band, tie space and length of points?
I'm on the case! Turnbull are looking into it for me.
Cheers,
Blair
Great, looking forward to see what they find. I’m in the process of having my PoW collar with them updated (I’ve been a bespoke customer there since the late noughties), so would be great to have the TWINE collar measurements as reference.
Comments
I wish I knew! I can only imagine that there was someone who didn't like the cuff and didn't think it represented the best that Turnbull & Asser could be. I prefer the Connery cuff but I have happily worn their modern cuff too.
The point of bespoke is not to get whatever you want. It's is mostly about fit and being able to chose what you want rather than dictate what you want. What defines bespoke is that you have your own pattern. Most people don't come into a bespoke shop with the expectation of being a clothing designer, and bespoke clothiers generally don't want that, though some can be very flexible. Turnbull & Asser are a very flexible place today for bespoke, and some of the things they've done truly surprise me.
I think it was largely down to demand. There was none. During the 90’s it was very difficult to get a cocktail cuff shirt. Hardly anyone really knew about them. Even now they are a niche market. Also Bond was looked down upon by T&A. If you went in there during the time of the first three Brosnan films and asked about Bond, it was akin to a stranger walking into a Wild West Saloon and ordering a Shirley Temple. Ahhh, those were the days.
Sorry to bother you with this, Blair - but I can't seem to find this particular fabric in T&A's website, do you know whether they have it listed under a different name? There is a "light blue" Royal Oxford shirt, I don't know whether this would be the right one. Thanks in advance!
"The very words I live by."
There’s definitely been a changing of the guard at parts of T&A. The fact that the current store manager at jermyn st had a cameo in DAD probably helps...
I have some great anecdotes from that period. There was one assistant at the time of TWINE who was very into Bond, and he always ushered people into the corner so the other assistants couldn’t hear. One older stalwart of the store would visibly sigh and look at his colleagues with disdain if you asked about Bond ties, and ask when wrapping if you’d want it wrapped as it was ‘obviously’ a gift. That certainly doesn’t happen any more and they really embrace the connection now. If you want that old experience it can still be had at Tom Ford in Knightsbridge though
Do you find that’s true for Bury St too? (Royal warrant holder still runs the show there)
I can say that Mr Quin was kind enough to show me the patterns they had for Connery and Brosnan when I visited 8 years ago. He's done quite a lot for Bond now and doesn't shy away from it.
I hope that helps!
Cheers then,
Blair
The Bond Vivant - Twitter
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The Bond Vivant - YouTube
The Bond Vivant - Twitter
The Bond Vivant - Facebook
The Bond Vivant - YouTube
Never had any issues there at all.
Great to see T&A with a Bond window again. The last And possibly the first one was 2006.
Jesus lol. Anyone who wants to be a lifelong customer there better continue climbing the financial ladder, as keeping up with inflation won’t be enough
Love the new ties - presume they have had to pay a whack to EON for licensing since using 007
The clothes themselves don't have the logo. They must have paid to use it in marketing, but probably less than if they put it on the clothes.
When you say raised up by 1/8”, does that just refer to the base/band of the collar?
When they say that at T&A, they're doing it to every part of the collar. It may be possible for just the band and rear height of the collar to be increased without increasing the points, but then I'm not sure if the points would be long enough to sit on the chest.
So glad I purchased the three 'original' ties last year before the price hike, one thousand pounds for 6 ties..............not sure about that
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIf2Qk36D-o&t=203s
Cheers to one and all!
Blair
The Bond Vivant - Twitter
The Bond Vivant - Facebook
The Bond Vivant - YouTube
In the picture on the T&A page, I count only 8.
Maybe that’s where the visual difference lies??
https://turnbullandasser.co.uk/products/the-world-is-not-enough-zig-zag-silk-tie-as-seen-on-james-bond
Screen used...
New T&A release...
I just wanted to reassure everyone that all comments regarding things that you liked from this current James Bond collection or things which may need tweaking for the future will definitely be passed along to T&A.
Our experience of the T&A team is that they spend an amazing amount of time trying to make things as perfect as possible. This work is beautifully represented in the completely reengineered 'cocktail cuff', and also the stunning Tomorrow Never Dies gold tie, where the tie silk was remade over a dozen times to match the gold fabric identically to the original.
They also really appreciate all feedback from the Bond Community because it helps them to develop products that fans of the films will treasure.
My last video at Jermyn Street was very much a film they allowed us to make to say a HUGE 'Thank you' to all the fans for all of their kindness and patience over the past few years. As a result it was packed full of Bond information gems that we all knew would bring a smile to everyone's face.
There's also lots more to discuss in a future film, such as, "How long the collection will be available for", and also "What fans may like to see if there is a future Bond collection". Hence, the Bond Community is really important to the project moving forwards, and I very much hope that you can support us with your infinite wisdom, kind generosity and definitely a jovial sense of humour.
Warmest wishes,
Blair & the Bond Project Team
The Bond Vivant - Twitter
The Bond Vivant - Facebook
The Bond Vivant - YouTube
T&A should also add their slim grenadine blue tie to the Bond collection also. And black knitted. The grenadine is obviously the perfect accompaniment to the Dr No shirt.
I saw that they showed you Brosnan's pattern while you visited Bury St. Did you get a chance to jot down the precise measurements of his TWINE collar? Ie height of collar band, tie space and length of points?
Thanks,
BB
Cheers,
Blair
The Bond Vivant - Twitter
The Bond Vivant - Facebook
The Bond Vivant - YouTube
Great, looking forward to see what they find. I’m in the process of having my PoW collar with them updated (I’ve been a bespoke customer there since the late noughties), so would be great to have the TWINE collar measurements as reference.
Thanks,
BB