You'll have to tell them you want a spread that is in between the two. And pray that they will be willing to do it! The only person I know who has the collar got it in NYC from the bespoke manager who originally designed it. That man no longer works for T&A.
Interestingly last time I saw T&A (when they came to the city I live) I asked that they adjust my PoW collar by increasing height (particularly in front) slightly longer points etc.
Because of a mixup they did those adjustments to my regent collar instead, the result being the below *larger* regent collar:
You'll have to tell them you want a spread that is in between the two. And pray that they will be willing to do it! The only person I know who has the collar got it in NYC from the bespoke manager who originally designed it. That man no longer works for T&A.
Interestingly last time I saw T&A (when they came to the city I live) I asked that they adjust my PoW collar by increasing height (particularly in front) slightly longer points etc.
Because of a mixup they did those adjustments to my regent collar instead, the result being the below *larger* regent collar:
BaB
I like that. The changes turned the Regent from a very English cutaway into a more Italian-looking one! It also goes to show how the TWINE collar is not as wide as a Regent.
Have any of the other Bonds worn anything resembling the "TWINE" collar?
The spread of the collar is very similar to the collar that Connery wears in his EON Bond films. The TWINE collar is slightly higher than Connery's collar so it has more presence, and the Stayflex in the ends gives it a different feel as well. But overall the shapes are very similar.
I like that. The changes turned the Regent from a very English cutaway into a more Italian-looking one! It also goes to show how the TWINE collar is not as wide as a Regent.
Thanks! I should note that “my” regent has slightly more spread than the standard regent. When it was “designed” about 11 years ago I was trying to make it look more like the DAD Brioni collar(!). Now it seems I’ve finally (almost) succeeded in that regard, but now I think I prefer the PoW B-)
Here's a controversial question. Do we think the newly-discovered "Bilbao Collar" appeared on more than just the Bilbao shirt, but on the other shirts in TWINE as well? Have a look at these pictures from TWINE, one from M's Office, one from the Scottish castle...
Here's a controversial question. Do we think the newly-discovered "Bilbao Collar" appeared on more than just the Bilbao shirt, but on the other shirts in TWINE as well? Have a look at these pictures from TWINE, one from M's Office, one from the Scottish castle...
I thought it was the same? The one I’m most keen on is the one in the second part of the pre-title (M’s office etc), which maybe seems taller?
Here's a controversial question. Do we think the newly-discovered "Bilbao Collar" appeared on more than just the Bilbao shirt, but on the other shirts in TWINE as well? Have a look at these pictures from TWINE, one from M's Office, one from the Scottish castle...
What’s ‘newly discovered’? This is the collar that appears on all of the day shirts he wears with a tie in the film. It’s the same higher Regent/Prince of Wales hybrid collar. If it looks a little different I’d say it’s down to how the Stayflex is bended. That can make a big difference in how the collar looks.
Also, we know from Blair’s video that Brosnan had 4 collar types made by T&A.
Are my below guesstimate about which collars are used where correct?
PoW collar: TND (day shirts and dinner shirt)
Regent: possibly the famous TWINE collar for day shirts
Classic collar: TWINE (dinner shirt)
No 3 collar: TWINE (final act)
BaB
The TWINE evening shirt looks like the same POW collar that's in TND. The Classic T&A collar (+1/8) is on the DAD evening shirt for sure.
The TWINE day shirt collar design was specified on the order to be "own shape", but I suspect that the collar pattern they labelled "REG" is that collar. When they showed me the paper pattern, the collar size of 16 1/4" matched up with the 16 1/4" neck size on the TWINE order form.
Yes, your collar is taller. Brosnan’s TWINE collar is only slightly higher than T&A’s standard height.
Thanks. In the scene in M’s office the collar looks higher to me than in other scenes from the back. What do you think causes this?
BaB
It looks this high in the back in a few other scenes too. The suit jackets' collars may not all fit exactly the same or be pressed the same way from suit to suit, which can result in showing more or less shirt collar.
I've asked T&A now to try to base the collar on my existing PoW pattern, but adjusting a touch (making it "larger") and also increasing the spread slightly. Should I go for more tie space as well?
You decided to drop the effort to have them copy the collar straight off Brosnan’s pattern?
Not quite decided yet, I am still waiting for them to get back to me on that. Keeping this as an option if they are struggling to do that in a sensible manner. But of course the ideal would be that they take the pattern and change collar size from 16 1/4 to 15 3/4.
As of now they came back and said it was the PoW collar, and based on the measurements they provided seemed to wanted to do their standard PoW.
If the TWINE collar is the POW (or POW-variant), then that basically means we never saw Brosnan wear his Regent collar in any movie, because he never wears a wider collar than the TWINE one (except in DAD, but that’s Brioni).
If the TWINE collar is the POW (or POW-variant), then that basically means we never saw Brosnan wear his Regent collar in any movie, because he never wears a wider collar than the TWINE one (except in DAD, but that’s Brioni).
As Bond_and_beyond said above, T&A said that Brosnan's POW is 1 3/4" high with 3" points. That height does not match with what's on screen for the TWINE day collar.
Bond_and_beyond, I suggest asking them to use their Brosnan Regent pattern, and that one is higher than the Brosnan POW. I'm fairly sure the Brosnan Regent collar is the TWINE collar. If you want to have them modify your POW pattern, ask them to raise it 1/4", but don't lengthen the points. Brosnan's points aren't any longer than your 3 1/8" POW points.
As Bond_and_beyond said above, T&A said that Brosnan's POW is 1 3/4" high with 3" points. That height does not match with what's on screen for the TWINE day collar.
Bond_and_beyond, I suggest asking them to use their Brosnan Regent pattern, and that one is higher than the Brosnan POW. I'm fairly sure the Brosnan Regent collar is the TWINE collar. If you want to have them modify your POW pattern, ask them to raise it 1/4", but don't lengthen the points. Brosnan's points aren't any longer than your 3 1/8" POW points.
I got the following response from T&A, so they are on it:
In all honesty, at first glance it resembles more of a POW than a Regent to me. The regent is slightly more spread in my mind. However, we will have another look at it tomorrow, as well as looking into the Regent Brosnan wore
What they don't seem to get is that is that while the collar looks more like the POW, it is labelled REG. I have a photo of Brosnan's actual paper pattern of this collar. The photo I have, however, is not enough to determine much else from.
What they don't seem to get is that is that while the collar looks more like the POW, it is labelled REG. I have a photo of Brosnan's actual paper pattern of this collar. The photo I have, however, is not enough to determine much else from.
The Regent collar there should be the same one that's the CAD pattern in Blair's video.
Update from T&A:
I can now confirm that it is a POW. No history of a regent collar Sir.
He has also had our T&A collar.
Something doesn't add up. Brosnan wears more than just these two collars in the Bond films. The TWINE collar on the order form is listed as 'own shape', and it is wider than a POW collar. In the patterns I have a photo of, there is a POW collar, and a slightly wider and higher collar next to it that looks like the TWINE collar. I have a POW collar shirt of my own that I've made comparisons with.
Something doesn't add up. Brosnan wears more than just these two collars in the Bond films. The TWINE collar on the order form is listed as 'own shape', and it is wider than a POW collar. In the patterns I have a photo of, there is a POW collar, and a slightly wider and higher collar next to it that looks like the TWINE collar. I have a POW collar shirt of my own that I've made comparisons with.
Could it simply be that they tweaked the PoW collar (ie slighly more spread etc) which in the CAD became its own collar? Ie it is a slightly taller PoW with a slightly wider spread?
They confirmed btw that "Reg" referred to "Regular" not "Regent".
Comments
Thanks, not that high in the front then.
Interestingly last time I saw T&A (when they came to the city I live) I asked that they adjust my PoW collar by increasing height (particularly in front) slightly longer points etc.
Because of a mixup they did those adjustments to my regent collar instead, the result being the below *larger* regent collar:
BaB
I like that. The changes turned the Regent from a very English cutaway into a more Italian-looking one! It also goes to show how the TWINE collar is not as wide as a Regent.
The spread of the collar is very similar to the collar that Connery wears in his EON Bond films. The TWINE collar is slightly higher than Connery's collar so it has more presence, and the Stayflex in the ends gives it a different feel as well. But overall the shapes are very similar.
Thanks! I should note that “my” regent has slightly more spread than the standard regent. When it was “designed” about 11 years ago I was trying to make it look more like the DAD Brioni collar(!). Now it seems I’ve finally (almost) succeeded in that regard, but now I think I prefer the PoW B-)
BaB
BaB
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I thought it was the same? The one I’m most keen on is the one in the second part of the pre-title (M’s office etc), which maybe seems taller?
BaB
What’s ‘newly discovered’? This is the collar that appears on all of the day shirts he wears with a tie in the film. It’s the same higher Regent/Prince of Wales hybrid collar. If it looks a little different I’d say it’s down to how the Stayflex is bended. That can make a big difference in how the collar looks.
Yes, your collar is taller. Brosnan’s TWINE collar is only slightly higher than T&A’s standard height.
Thanks. In the scene in M’s office the collar looks higher to me than in other scenes from the back. What do you think causes this?
BaB
Are my below guesstimate about which collars are used where correct?
PoW collar: TND (day shirts and dinner shirt)
Regent: possibly the famous TWINE collar for day shirts
Classic collar: TWINE (dinner shirt)
No 3 collar: TWINE (final act)
BaB
The TWINE evening shirt looks like the same POW collar that's in TND. The Classic T&A collar (+1/8) is on the DAD evening shirt for sure.
The TWINE day shirt collar design was specified on the order to be "own shape", but I suspect that the collar pattern they labelled "REG" is that collar. When they showed me the paper pattern, the collar size of 16 1/4" matched up with the 16 1/4" neck size on the TWINE order form.
It looks this high in the back in a few other scenes too. The suit jackets' collars may not all fit exactly the same or be pressed the same way from suit to suit, which can result in showing more or less shirt collar.
BaB
Not quite decided yet, I am still waiting for them to get back to me on that. Keeping this as an option if they are struggling to do that in a sensible manner. But of course the ideal would be that they take the pattern and change collar size from 16 1/4 to 15 3/4.
As of now they came back and said it was the PoW collar, and based on the measurements they provided seemed to wanted to do their standard PoW.
BaB
As Bond_and_beyond said above, T&A said that Brosnan's POW is 1 3/4" high with 3" points. That height does not match with what's on screen for the TWINE day collar.
Bond_and_beyond, I suggest asking them to use their Brosnan Regent pattern, and that one is higher than the Brosnan POW. I'm fairly sure the Brosnan Regent collar is the TWINE collar. If you want to have them modify your POW pattern, ask them to raise it 1/4", but don't lengthen the points. Brosnan's points aren't any longer than your 3 1/8" POW points.
I got the following response from T&A, so they are on it:
Could you share that photo?
BaB
Thanks, I might pass this on to T&A also.
BaB
The Regent collar there should be the same one that's the CAD pattern in Blair's video.
Update from T&A:
Something doesn't add up. Brosnan wears more than just these two collars in the Bond films. The TWINE collar on the order form is listed as 'own shape', and it is wider than a POW collar. In the patterns I have a photo of, there is a POW collar, and a slightly wider and higher collar next to it that looks like the TWINE collar. I have a POW collar shirt of my own that I've made comparisons with.
Could it simply be that they tweaked the PoW collar (ie slighly more spread etc) which in the CAD became its own collar? Ie it is a slightly taller PoW with a slightly wider spread?
They confirmed btw that "Reg" referred to "Regular" not "Regent".
BaB
BAB