Madeleine: I'm not the first to mention that there's no chemistry between Craig and Seydoux, which is more than unfortunate considering how much of the plot depends on it.
I was thinking this myself recently. There was nothing in Spectre that warranted the return of this love story. Apart from the Jamaica scenes and the first part of the Cuba scenes I’m starting to wish DC had not come back.
Personally I wish he'd never been there in the first place, but that is very unimportant.
As to his coming back, the picture (no pun intended) is muddied by the pandemic which affected both the financial reception of NTTD and owing to the longer than intended delay and consequent anticipation the emotional reaction to it. We'll never know if feelings would be different if the film had been released a reasonable time after its predecessor.
Nomi: Introduced well, then has nowhere to go. A new, younger 007 has definite dramatic possibilities but this film makes nothing of them. Her handing the title of "007" back to Bond makes no sense in context.
One of my major bugbears with the film too: if you removed her it would make absolutely no difference to the film. Bond beats her in every one of their skirmishes (she even fails on their very first meeting- she's supposed to warn him off but she actually convinces him to get involved!) so there's no real feeling of two rivals competing: he simply outclasses her easily, which is rather dull. He learns nothing from her, all she really learns is that Bond is great, but we already knew that. Even Amasova in TSWLM gets the upper hand on Bond a couple of times: you need that if they're supposed to be sparring.
She could have been interesting, she should have been interesting. You could have drawn parallels between her and Bond himself in CR (they're both starting out as 007 even: it's on a plate), she could have saved his life, Bond could have been shown that perhaps sometimes playing by the book works and she could have learned that a little bit of roguishness is needed sometimes too; but ultimately the film just isn't really interested in her. Take her out and you have the same story, which is a really bad sign.
Quite liked some of the action sequences. The PTS was very good, as was the ending with Craig walking through Safin's lair with the gun. These moments felt very much like the books for me.
Bond in Jamaica. Nice seeing him take a shower. Liked the sequence in the nightclub with Felix.
Cuba - I quite liked Paloma, but I'm not overly blown like everyone else is by her. I think she stands out because most of the the film is so bleak in comparison.
I like the usage of the YOLT novel with Safin's lair.
Cons -
Could have done without the Norway flashbacks, could have done without Madeline and the daughter too.
Safin was so unnecessary. Blofeld as the main villain would have worked so much better,
Hated the Bond v Blofeld scene. Craig's acting here is truly abysmal. Probably the single worst performance in the entire franchise.
Hated the ending. You don't kill off the main character - ever! They should have used the Sparrows Tears final chapter of YOLT, and left it open.
Why kill Felix off? Again, another pointless moment, just to add another shock element. Keeps the young Netflixers happy I guess.
Paloma action sequence. Suddenly felt we were in bad Moore/Brozza territory again. Many people loved the sequence, but I can only guess is because it is light relief from everything else before and after it.
Awful, awful song. Babs reign as producer has given us without doubt the worst songs of the franchise - DAD, QoS, SP and now NTTD.
Hated the use of OHMSS music in the film. I liked it when I first heard it appear, but by the end credits it just felt tacky and wrong.
Way too long as a movie.
CR had so much promise when it was first released. I was so optimistic for the future of the franchise, but it sadly went all downhill from there. Craig was given too much control, but he didn't use it in a good way like Dalton would have done. I got the impression he was never a fan of the Fleming books. He wanted to carve out the character in his own vision, and by NTTD he had absolutely destroyed it. Feeling sorry and pity for Bond before his final death scene is not something I would ever be seeking in a Bond movie, and I doubt many other fans would be either - yet this is what the brains behind this operation thought we all wanted to see.
Very disappointing film overall, and a sad way to bring the curtain down on Craig's Bond era. NTTD is down there with the dregs of the franchise (usual suspects - DAD, AVTAK, TWINE, SP).
@Glidrose007 I can't believe I never saw you post this. Very astute and brief summary of Ps and Cs.
I think you are right about the Cuba scenes. I too am in the 'love' Paloma corner, but having watched the movie 3 times - which felt more than enough - I get exactly what you are saying and yet that is exactly why I enjoy the character and the sequence, because it does hark back to a more laid back, tongue firmly in the cheek era of OO7. I mean all that business with the robot eye and the killing spray - it's utter drivelling nonsense, probably one of the most absurd moments the franchise has ever provided. You just can't take it seriously. Which begs the question: why is the remainder of the film so glum and heavy going? It is almost as if a different writer chipped in with this scene. Oh, right, I think she did... Anyway, fun isn't a crime in my book and Craig-Bond or perhaps Craig himself really ought not to take the franchise so seriously. His five films are too earnest by a chalk. "C'mon, lighten, dude," I kept thinking.
At distance [I haven't seen NTTD since March] I agree with most of your cons and entirely agree too with your take on the ending as I am a huge fan of the novel YOLT, whose ending rightly anticipates what might come next. That would have worked far better than killing off James Bond altogether on a fanciful actor's whim.
A man crawling through a desert doesn’t complain about the condition of the first water he's seen in, let me see, 6 years. He laps it up gratefully, maybe even posts glowing reviews, and only later he thinks about the many faults and finds he's not alone in his thoughts.
Then he begins to crawl through the desert again ....
I rewatched it this week and the funny thing is I'm much more severe now than I was when I discovered it, mainly because of the plot and the various writing issues it suffers from. I find the climax deeply overwhelming (I'm not necessarily talking about Bond's death). Safin is, imho, one of the worst villains of the franchise, and when the bad guy is so poorly written, it's never a good point plotwise.
However, there are very good ideas in terms of directing and cinematography. This movie clearly has been made by skillful people. From a technical point of view, it's brilliant.
Strange film to be fair. I watched it twice in the cinema and since buying the blu ray only one more time. I just can’t handle the whole film. I just watch the Jamaica scenes which I think were really good.
I watched it again recently and it really grew on me. I like it a lot. It has flaws, but generally it's a compelling watch and there's a good mood to it.
Comments
Many good points, Barbel. But I think you know the ending was very deliberate and not something they tried to avoid.
Madeleine: I'm not the first to mention that there's no chemistry between Craig and Seydoux, which is more than unfortunate considering how much of the plot depends on it.
I was thinking this myself recently. There was nothing in Spectre that warranted the return of this love story. Apart from the Jamaica scenes and the first part of the Cuba scenes I’m starting to wish DC had not come back.
Personally I wish he'd never been there in the first place, but that is very unimportant.
As to his coming back, the picture (no pun intended) is muddied by the pandemic which affected both the financial reception of NTTD and owing to the longer than intended delay and consequent anticipation the emotional reaction to it. We'll never know if feelings would be different if the film had been released a reasonable time after its predecessor.
PS my definition of "a reasonable time" differs from that of Eon.
Nomi: Introduced well, then has nowhere to go. A new, younger 007 has definite dramatic possibilities but this film makes nothing of them. Her handing the title of "007" back to Bond makes no sense in context.
One of my major bugbears with the film too: if you removed her it would make absolutely no difference to the film. Bond beats her in every one of their skirmishes (she even fails on their very first meeting- she's supposed to warn him off but she actually convinces him to get involved!) so there's no real feeling of two rivals competing: he simply outclasses her easily, which is rather dull. He learns nothing from her, all she really learns is that Bond is great, but we already knew that. Even Amasova in TSWLM gets the upper hand on Bond a couple of times: you need that if they're supposed to be sparring.
She could have been interesting, she should have been interesting. You could have drawn parallels between her and Bond himself in CR (they're both starting out as 007 even: it's on a plate), she could have saved his life, Bond could have been shown that perhaps sometimes playing by the book works and she could have learned that a little bit of roguishness is needed sometimes too; but ultimately the film just isn't really interested in her. Take her out and you have the same story, which is a really bad sign.
I totally agree with all of your pros too! 😊
I hear you but then there wouldn’t have been the Casino Royale we got which is my favourite (not just Bond ) film of all time.
I love that film too, but mainly because of the Fleming content.
Pros -
Cons -
CR had so much promise when it was first released. I was so optimistic for the future of the franchise, but it sadly went all downhill from there. Craig was given too much control, but he didn't use it in a good way like Dalton would have done. I got the impression he was never a fan of the Fleming books. He wanted to carve out the character in his own vision, and by NTTD he had absolutely destroyed it. Feeling sorry and pity for Bond before his final death scene is not something I would ever be seeking in a Bond movie, and I doubt many other fans would be either - yet this is what the brains behind this operation thought we all wanted to see.
Very disappointing film overall, and a sad way to bring the curtain down on Craig's Bond era. NTTD is down there with the dregs of the franchise (usual suspects - DAD, AVTAK, TWINE, SP).
@Glidrose007 I can't believe I never saw you post this. Very astute and brief summary of Ps and Cs.
I think you are right about the Cuba scenes. I too am in the 'love' Paloma corner, but having watched the movie 3 times - which felt more than enough - I get exactly what you are saying and yet that is exactly why I enjoy the character and the sequence, because it does hark back to a more laid back, tongue firmly in the cheek era of OO7. I mean all that business with the robot eye and the killing spray - it's utter drivelling nonsense, probably one of the most absurd moments the franchise has ever provided. You just can't take it seriously. Which begs the question: why is the remainder of the film so glum and heavy going? It is almost as if a different writer chipped in with this scene. Oh, right, I think she did... Anyway, fun isn't a crime in my book and Craig-Bond or perhaps Craig himself really ought not to take the franchise so seriously. His five films are too earnest by a chalk. "C'mon, lighten, dude," I kept thinking.
At distance [I haven't seen NTTD since March] I agree with most of your cons and entirely agree too with your take on the ending as I am a huge fan of the novel YOLT, whose ending rightly anticipates what might come next. That would have worked far better than killing off James Bond altogether on a fanciful actor's whim.
Great insight! @Glidrose007 , really agreed with each of your points.
It really got my same feelings towards the film
@chrisno1 @MI6_Headquarters
Cheers guys!
Belated agreement from me, too.
Ditto from me. Truly loved many aspects of NTTD but the negatives are like flies on the pizza.
Are really the robot eye and the killing spray among the most absurd moments in the series? I doubt it.
Lets be honest guys, NTTD was an all time low for the series.
A man crawling through a desert doesn’t complain about the condition of the first water he's seen in, let me see, 6 years. He laps it up gratefully, maybe even posts glowing reviews, and only later he thinks about the many faults and finds he's not alone in his thoughts.
Then he begins to crawl through the desert again ....
I rewatched it this week and the funny thing is I'm much more severe now than I was when I discovered it, mainly because of the plot and the various writing issues it suffers from. I find the climax deeply overwhelming (I'm not necessarily talking about Bond's death). Safin is, imho, one of the worst villains of the franchise, and when the bad guy is so poorly written, it's never a good point plotwise.
However, there are very good ideas in terms of directing and cinematography. This movie clearly has been made by skillful people. From a technical point of view, it's brilliant.
Strange film to be fair. I watched it twice in the cinema and since buying the blu ray only one more time. I just can’t handle the whole film. I just watch the Jamaica scenes which I think were really good.
I watched it again recently and it really grew on me. I like it a lot. It has flaws, but generally it's a compelling watch and there's a good mood to it.
Really? Not even the Cuba scenes and the PTS?
No, just the Jamaica scenes for me.
To each his own. 🙂