It makes you wonder which Bond experience @chrisno1 liked less - travelling to London's Leicester Square to see OHMSS and not getting in, or travelling to London's Leicester Square to see NTtD - and succeeding!
I enjoy these write-ups far more than the film itself but going thru the movie in such painstaking detail - and I'm reminded at every turn why I just didn't get on with it - another thought hits me; I just don't like it. I don't enjoy the plot, simples. Don't enjoy the characters, it reminds me of an old thread of @Hardboy who doesn't show up for some reason when I type ins name, about TMWTGG called 'Cranky, Oh so cranky!' Every one seems bloody miserable, I suppose in the post-Brexit world this figures, but I think Ash is the only one having a laugh, they should have shown him going off with the Cuba contact (Chris No 1 will tell you her name) in a biplane, tell me that wouldn't have been a more fun movie!
Interested to hear it's on at Empire Leicester Square - assuming that's the one you meant - because many years ago I saw TND there for the second time and I liked it a lot more, I'd seen the premiere of Titanic only a few months before there and wow that was a movie.
Oh, while I agree with almost every word of Chris No1's review, it had me right up to where he says AVTAK is the worst of the worst and because of that he is now dead to me. 😀
James Bond is dead to me too, but then again, aside from a few stragglers on another thread, he's dead to everyone. 😎
Yeah, sorry about AVTAK @Napoleon Plural , but something has to be at the bottom. 😈
I saw NTTD at the Odeon Leicester Square on opening day and at my local Empire, in Sutton. I don't have any plans to watch it again any time soon. I can't decide if I love it or hate it. For the record, IMO even the worst of the worst of Bond is still better than over 50% of movies out there and I'd watch AVTAK over half the garbage they make these days.
'I can't decide if I love it or hate it'. 🤔 Well, I think we can decide that for you - you hate it! (You sure as hell don't love it.)
What, AVTAK even worse than DAD?
Sutton! You're up the road from me, I'm in Epsom. What were you complaining about making the long journey to London's Prince Charles cinema? I thought you live in Slough or some such place!
Or do you mean Sutton Coldfield?
"This is where we leave you Mr Bond."
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,535MI6 Agent
I saw it at Odeon Leics Sq on opening night and the Empire at the Cast and Crew screening. The dialogue was fine and I never missed any plot points on those viewings at all. And on multiple viewings chrisno1 seems to have missed most plot points on most viewings as is evident in the write up. I think you need to see it with subtitles when it comes out. You’ll understand so much more then and it will answer most questions you’ve raised.
@Napoleon Plural When I went to try and see OHMSS there was no train service between West Croydon and Balham, so I took a bus to Morden and the underground. That's 90 minutes compared to my usual 45.
@Asp9mm You'll notice I wrote "I miss the days when they explained things properly in a Bond film" and the fact we have websites and forums such as this which debate, explain and validate what is on screen tells me I am not the only one who enjoys clear explanation. It is not always possible to catch every important moment. If you did, grand; I didn't. Most of my questions are not really about plot points either, they're more to do with my impression of the film. Nice pictures BTW.
Eh? I thought you lived in Sutton. 'Bus replacement service' is up there with 'England penalty shootout' as the three most dreaded words in the English language. What about East Croydon - that's straight up to London... this is one of the most bizarre exchanges I have ever had on this website btw. 😁
@Asp9mm I think even when a plot point is explained in NTTD it doesn't necessarily make much sense.
I do feel to balance things out we should have @Loeffelholz and @chrisno1 on a thread slagging off AVTAK - it's only fair. It was only when I was on Twitter I realised how many folk hated Spectre and it's a bit horrible reading them slag it off - its 'piss-stained' cinematography gets a lot of flack, for instance, which I'd not hitherto noticed. I don't recall all that vitriol when it came out.
I'm in that knotty little enclave of suburban posh called Carshalton-on-the-Hill. Not posh at all, just full of people who think they are. The guy who wrote the movie reviews for Club International used to live locally and mentioned it a lot in very disdainful terms. So, I'd still have to get the bus to East Croydon. Plus, have you been to Croydon recently? Oh dear lord... I'm not sure I complained about the travelling anyway, just stated the fact I did have to make a longish journey. I'm quite used to public transport in London and I usually take the route which has the least messing about. Time isn't that important to me, I'm not expecting to die.... although judging by my hearing I might end up like poor old Fannie Le Fan soon
BTW @Napoleon Plural SP has grown on me also, much like QOS. Take away C and the Brother-Blofeld stuff and it's only the last twenty minutes which do it a severe disservice IMO. Sadly, that's an important twenty minutes.
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,535MI6 Agent
But it is all explained. Not blatantly a la Christmas Jones nonsense. But there’s no ambiguity here. You just missed it all. I think the ‘dumbed down explain it all to everyone ad infinitum’ stuff is annoying and panders to the people who are of a intellect lower than average and then some. Now I’m not saying you’re that demographic, quite the opposite, as it seems you’ve missed out on a load of dialogue -Some people don’t even understand who Vesper was working for 15 years on for crying out loud. But you have indeed missed really important dialogue that explains most of your woes. Roll on blu ray release. You are certainly not in the minority when it comes to sound and understanding what people are saying in this movie.
I still need to see NTTD a second time (unfortunately it's no longer playing in Imax in my area), but @chrisno1's second viewing has provided much food for thought.
"There’s been a lot of comment about the gun barrel. It was alright. I didn’t miss the blood."
I didn't mind the fade-to-white either. I just wish that the final part of the traditional gunbarrel music would return to the dramatic style used in FRWL, instead of reusing that upbeat tag the moment Bond fires at the camera.
"She shoots Safin with a full clip of bullets. The man is surly dead. He even bleeds – although not from his chest – as Little Madeleine drags him outside. Perhaps he is wearing a bullet proof vest. This is not explained."
You're right. His revival was so blatantly unrealistic that it temporarily took me out of the film.
"Hans Zimmer clearly found nothing in the theme tune he could use. I didn’t catch the theme in his score at all."
I really want to know what Zimmer's feeling were about this assignment. Did he resent having to stay under Barry's shadow? I'd like to think the decision to recycle "All the Time in the World" wasn't his.
"Unlike most observers, I like Lea Seydoux. I find her unbreakable-china exterior beguiling."
I don't dislike her, but she never rises beyond her exterior, in the way a Hitchcock blonde would. I don't think Bond would really fall in love with such a person.
"...he wheezes out some half-hearted lies about Madeleine which Bond believes, because he’s a twit and probably because he isn’t really in love, only in need"
I also realize that if Bond was in love with her, it's just as likely that he wouldn't have leapt to the conclusion that Madeline betrayed him. People in love practice all sorts of self-deception.
"I hate the scientist. I can’t even type his name any more. Over the top performance, completely skews every scene he appears in."
He's way too cartoony to fit into the rest of the film. The mismatch in performance styles is jarring.
"I wonder why they didn’t use the real Goldeneye?"
According to this article, Bond's Jamaican pad was "created from scratch on a private beach near Port Antonio, not far from Fleming’s former home, GoldenEye." My guess is that GoldenEye has been so built up since Fleming's death (multiple buildings have been added to the property) that it wouldn't give a sense of hidden-away isolation.
"No reason for Bond to join forces with the CIA. He even mentions this to Nomi yet promptly throws himself into the fray with wild abandon. He ought to have a clearer decision making process."
My feeling is that he was getting bored with retirement and couldn't resist the lure of action.
"It seems simply heartless to kill Felix. Couldn’t they have just had a shark bite his leg off or something? Later on Bond refers to him as his ‘brother’ as in ‘my brother from Langley’ but suggesting something deeper. I never saw this in their friendship."
That's true. We saw they were friends in CR and QoS but not especially close ones. I was shocked when Felix died, but after the film's end his death seems to have been a prelude to Bond's own death.
"Madeleine has hightailed it back to the place of her childhood trauma. She’s done what? Why would she do this? Why does she still live in the same house where her mother got killed?"
This made no sense to me either. That's not how people behave on any planet. The film doesn't say why she would ever want to return to a place with such horrible, traumatic memories.
"Craig gives an earnest speech about how his biggest regret was putting her on the train. Does he say this because Blofeld told him the truth of the situation, or because he regretted it from the get-go? Not clear, should be made clear"
Agreed. Otherwise we don't actually know that he's actually resolved his supposed trust issues. Another part of the ramshackle "personal arc"!
"A car chase. Dull. Too much gun play again. Nomi is late. Too late."
This part of the film definitely doesn't reflect well on her. And the site of Bond driving along in a Range Rover with his "wife" and kid is a bit sad. If the bad guys hadn't shown up he'd have resembled just another prosperous dad taking his family on a Sunday outing.
"...where did he get the hair from? Then I remembered he was folding a hair inside a handkerchief when he visited her office. But how does he know that is her hair? It could be anyone who happens to be blonde...and why is he allowed into the office before the doctor arrives?"
That is what happens when you multiple writers working on the script like piano movers--details that should stressed get lost.
"The two codas. The one in the office is ordinary. The one in the Aston Martin is worse than ordinary, almost sickeningly saccharine."
I liked the use of the Jack London quote, originally quoted in YOLT, during the office scene. But the rest of the scene is a bit flat. I don't want the actors crying or being dramatic, but a visual hint or two of melancholy might have conveyed more grief. The Aston Martin scene felt so fake and self-congratulatory that for a moment I preferred the '67 Casino Royale's treatment of Bond's demise.
You could argue that visiting Vesper's grave stirred up all those old feelings of mistrust that he'd had before, so it was like - wow, second time this is happening. This admittedly works with the idea that from the get-go Craig's Bond is damaged goods, and a bit unhinged almost.
Damn you @Revelator ! I wanted to mention the tie-in with the end of CR 67! Someone has to do that on YouTube. However, knowing the way the producers might feel, it would be Bond descending to the fires of hell.
"Madeleine has hightailed it back to the place of her childhood trauma. She’s done what? Why would she do this? Why does she still live in the same house where her mother got killed?"
Before I get criticised for being deaf again, I'd like to point out I am aware that Madeleine tells Bond she's "going home" or something similar and when he appears at the Norway pad she's glad he remembered - so she obviously wanted him to find her there. My point is, why would the house still be maintained, lived in, functioning, why is all that Quantum / Spectre stuff still in the cellar? It is a convenience for the writers. It makes no sense character wise for a woman attempting to escape and bury her past to maintain it, as it obviously has been for five years since Mr White died. Even if it hasn't, I fail to understand how nobody knew she had a child. That is just incomprehensible.
Au contraire, @chrisno1 that was the most prescient part of the film for those of us who had to hightail it to our folks house during lockdown to take care of them, plenty of old crap there never thrown away. Okay, doesn't make sense in this case as her Dad Mr White was long gone by that time, for a few years at least.
Funny how I got all the gags but not the plot points. On behalf of myself and probably Chris No 1 I should say that I do usually understand what's going on in movies, that said what we got in the last two years - Mendes' 1917 is really an extended chase scene or road trip lent gravitas by its subject matter and the timing of its release, not many words there; Le Mans 66 largely action not much dialogue thought it's there; The Suicide Squad throws you into it and I didn't like it but I heard everything alright; Midsomer highly memorable, got it all and the same for the rather dismal The Courier, I admit that many of these movies are simplistic and don't require much explaining but that begs the question - why should a Bond movie need a lot of explaining and attention, and shouldn't - as one of our reviewers pointed out - it be more show than tell?
On a side note it's p*ss poor that after a massive refurb that took over a year, Odeon Leicester Square cinema - formerly London's flagship - offers a worse movie experience than the Empire local multiplex in cruddy Sutton.
Some Bonds do require one to pay attention but should you chose not to you can go along with the joie de vivre. You had stuff like The Living Daylights and then things like GoldenEye were just a bit too complicated imo. I think when we saw Madeleine get into the lift with Bond to see Blofeld, it did occur to me - we do have to be paying attention a lot in this film don't we, we have to do a lot of the heavy lifting, it's like one of those restaurants where you show up and have to cook it yourself, or those adventure weekends where you're locked in a room and have to figure out how to escape.
I prefer a movie, Bond or otherwise, where you now the set-up, are armed with the information and then enjoy the spectacle, the action, the gamesmanship between the characters and their situations.
Kind of a non-related question. But there's an image circulating around social media with a close-up of Bond carrying the child through the forest. Does anyone have an HD copy of that?
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
I noticed something the third time i saw the movie. When Bond opens the garage to catch the v8 vantage, who the hell is entering the right door and gets in the car? Did anyone see that? Its right the second after Bond removes the curtain and theres a person getting inside the car.
And the big question is who is that person, because in the next scene when Bond is parking outside Mi6, theres only Bond in the car😅
It's Bond. It's just oddly edited. One second you see him on one side of the car having just lifted the cover off and ever so briefly gazing at it, the next split second, he's getting into it on the drivers' side.
yeah, i thought maybe it was ment to be Bond, but i actually think that was little stupid edited, because you almost see his head left in the picture at the same time the right door opens. Everything happens so fast, its crazy
Been a long time since I was on this site, but I just saw NTTD and thought I would share my thoughts. I thoroughly enjoyed the film, it may be my favorite Craig Bond film. The pre-title sequence was excellent, but I hated the title song, thought it dragged, and the title art work was acceptable, I will always miss the girls in the titles but I understand that is not coming back. The film, despite it's length, held my interest throughout. Action sequences were well done and the storyline had some good plot twists. I enjoyed the love story between Bond and Madeleine and found it believable. Have always enjoyed Jeffrey Wright as Leiter and Naomi Harris as Moneypenny and they did not disappoint in this film. I would have Wright as my all-time favorite Leiter. Ana de Armas was a total delight and I wish she had more screen time. Rami Malek was not the most menacing villain, but his understated emotions and body/facial movements were creepy. I thought this may have been Craig's best acting and also thought Lea Seydoux was outstanding. I like films where I can feel for the characters, Bond, Madeleine, Safin, all had suffered loss and all were pained by their loss. I felt the pain each character had endured and that increased my enjoyment of the film.
Couple quick comments, liked how they worked the poison garden from Fleming's novel YOLT into the film and also liked the use of the OHMSS We Have All The Time in the World music into the film. I left the theater very happy, although I did wonder how the producers approach the next film, it will be interesting.
Ranking the Craig films, top to bottom NTTD, Skyfall, Spectre, CR, QOS. My opinion only, I know others think differently.
BARRY!!!!!!! It's great to see you on the site again. I sincerely hope you're doing well and staying safe and healthy.
By odd coincidence, my brother and I just finished watching the movie as well. Alas, I cannot say we shared your sentiments. Maybe it was the fact that we already knew what to expect but the movie really fell flat for me and elicited no emotions whatsoever.
I thought the pre-credits sequence was serivceable at best. While I didn't mind the flashback and Bond's initial run-in with the SPECTRE thugs, the Aston Martin section felt too short; one donut, a few bullets, some smoke and it was all over. Also, Bond really comes across as a complete idiot here, stupidly falling for an orgy of evidence without once questioning whether it was all a manipulation, especially as he already knows that Blofeld has a penchant for this sort of thing.
The title song is probably the worst one in the series for me and that's saying something after Madonna's fingernails on the chalkboard rendition of Die Another Day. At least that had some energy to it; this sounded like it was delivered after a bottle of scotch and a handful of Prozac.
The Cuba scenes were ok but to be honest while Ana DeArmas' anxiety was mildly amusing, the action had an odd pace to it that never really took off for me. The death of Leiter was well done and he and Craig had a good rapport. I actually felt more empathy for Leiter's death than Bond's (more on that later).
From there until reveal of Mathilde the film felt like just a parade of exposition to advance the plot, show us how stupid M has become and generally start to stack the deck for the inevitable conclusion.
The domestic scenes of Bond reconnecting with Madeleine and making his daughter breakfast (let's not kid ourselves, he knows she's his daughter) were boring to me. I know they were an attempt at character building but quite frankly that's the last thing I want from a Bond movie.
The assault on the island was similarly oddly paced with the action coming in fits and starts and never really falling into any kind of a rhythm.
Bond's scenes with Safin did not resonate with me at all. The dialog was hard to understand (a recurring problem with characters constantly whispering, mumbling and generally talking under their breath) and I really didn't understand Safin's motivation for wanting to kill millions. There was some mumbo jumbo about people not really wanting to be safe or some such nonsense but it fell flat and didn't seem genuine.
And then we come to Bond's death. In watching the scenes leading up to it, as the deck is stacked, I could not escape the feeling that I was watching Daniel Craig trying to cement his legacy as Bond by doing something no other actor in the role ever had. It all felt manufactured and disingenuous and when he says "I'm not going to make it" I felt absolutely nothing, other than a simmering resentment at Barbara Broccoli for going there with one of my favorite fictional characters.
Overall, as I watched NTTD, I struggled to equate it with a Bond movie, especially the last third. The attempts at manipulating my emotions failed miserably and all the callbacks to other, in my opinion, better movies felt out of place. I switched it off as soon as the credits started to roll, not even caring enough to wait for the inevitable "James Bond will return" tag at the end. As far as I'm concerned, the creative decisions made by the filmmakers send this one right to the bottom of the heap but that should come as no surprise to anyone who knows my taste in Bond movies. So long Daniel Craig, don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.
Hi Tony, good to hear from you and I am doing fine, thanks for asking. Nice to see you are still on the site. I realized a long time ago that everyone's taste in Bond differs, for example, I did not like CR, but most Bond fans do. Craig is not my favorite Bond, but he has grown on me and I thought he did a nice job in this film. I have mixed thoughts on Bond's death in this film. As I mentioned to my wife after seeing the film, in the past, when a new Bond was introduced, it was just a new actor playing Bond and Bond was sent off on a new mission. The fact that he is supposedly dead, makes me wonder how the producers will move forward. The more I think about it, the more I think the death scene was a mistake.
In many of of the Bond films, Bond supposedly falls in love. In most, I never believed the love between the characters. I believed it in OHMSS with Tracy and actually believed it in TND with Paris. Never believed it in CR with Vesper. In the last two films, I did feel Bond loved Madeleine and that may have helped my investment in the story.
Being a long time (old) Bond fan, my Bond film rankings tend to change over time. I initially did not care for OHMSS but the film has really grown on me. LTK continues to grow on me, so I imagine my feelings on this film will evolve, for better or worse, over time.
Good to hear from you Tony and you still write better reviews than I do. 😉
I'm loving reading all the reviews here (thanks guys), having seen the film here in Australia only a few days ago on it's first full day or release. It felt like a long 5 or 6 weeks (after international release), but we go there in the end.
I'd like to share some brief thoughts below.
Overall:
Despite having watched all the trailers (despite a promise to myself to the contrary), I still found the film quite thrilling for the most part.
At this moment, NTTD for me sits 3rd in the DC-era Bonds behind CR and SF, though I need additional viewings to see if it can challenge for that second spot. My gut feel is that Silva is keeping Safin in 3rd ('...only as good as their villains'?)
Some Specifics:
The pre-titles sequences, particularly Matera, were the highlight for me. despite seeing the motorcycle jump and donut a bazillion times ahead of seeing the movie, I was completely thrilled by how it played out, in particularly with the moments Bond takes as the car is getting smashed by bullets.
I got heart 'pangs' at DC's delivery of 'I miss you' to Vesper, LS's reaction as the train doors close, Felix's 'It's a good life isn't it?' and with Zimmer's 'Final Ascent' strings.
I'm sadder at the death of JB now, than I was coming out of the cinema, when I think I was 'OK with it' because it was something I did not expect to see (without ambiguity anyway), and I enjoy being surprised. There are thousands of bigger Bond fans among these pages and I'm thinking that if this is staying with me like it is, then there are many of you that must have done it tough digesting those final scenes.( I hope you're all ok!).
I loved the more casual (and $$$ accessible) wardrobe, and I've been charmed by Suttirat, particularly in DZ's recent (awesome) discussion. For the record I've only picked up a couple of things, the Avery neck tie and the RGT jacket. There will be other purchases down the track, and in several cases, being down here in Aus (no stockists for many things) has made it marginally easier not to buy things. I'll get those freakin combat pants one day. If I was 6 foot or above I'd probably give the Duster a go too. I could go on...
Cary did a good job. I felt like SF and SP were more Mendes-y than NTTD was Fukunaga-y, but given he was a little late to the game, perhaps there were some limitations on what he good bring (just spitballin').
The extended delays in getting this one to theatres have meant I've definitely spent much more time reading from the AJB than I might have on any other 'cycle' between films. Thanks to you all for helping build the excitement. I look forward to more years as a part of the community (I hope!)
The dialog was hard to understand (a recurring problem with characters constantly whispering, mumbling and generally talking under their breath)
AHA ! So it wasn't only me who has this opinion. I hate having to watch a film twice simply to understand what people are saying. Are actors not trained to annunciate properly anymore?
I'm experiencing this more and more in modern movies. I think part of the problem is that the dialog seems to get a lower priority to the sound effects in the overall mix a lot of times so you really have to crank up the volume to hear what people are saying only to then have your eardrums shattered every time there is an explosion.
Some directors also more apt to do this than others; Christopher Nolan has gotten really bad in this regard recently. Bane was often unintelligible in Dark Knight Rises and Tenet had a horribly bad audio mix. I've actually started using closed captions more even though I generally hate doing it because focusing on the text means I sometimes miss the visuals on the screen.
With NTTD Lea Seydoux and Rami Malek in particular would just mumble a lot or speak barely above a whisper. The oddball accent Malek decided to use didn't help either.
Comments
It makes you wonder which Bond experience @chrisno1 liked less - travelling to London's Leicester Square to see OHMSS and not getting in, or travelling to London's Leicester Square to see NTtD - and succeeding!
I enjoy these write-ups far more than the film itself but going thru the movie in such painstaking detail - and I'm reminded at every turn why I just didn't get on with it - another thought hits me; I just don't like it. I don't enjoy the plot, simples. Don't enjoy the characters, it reminds me of an old thread of @Hardboy who doesn't show up for some reason when I type ins name, about TMWTGG called 'Cranky, Oh so cranky!' Every one seems bloody miserable, I suppose in the post-Brexit world this figures, but I think Ash is the only one having a laugh, they should have shown him going off with the Cuba contact (Chris No 1 will tell you her name) in a biplane, tell me that wouldn't have been a more fun movie!
Interested to hear it's on at Empire Leicester Square - assuming that's the one you meant - because many years ago I saw TND there for the second time and I liked it a lot more, I'd seen the premiere of Titanic only a few months before there and wow that was a movie.
Oh, while I agree with almost every word of Chris No1's review, it had me right up to where he says AVTAK is the worst of the worst and because of that he is now dead to me. 😀
James Bond is dead to me too, but then again, aside from a few stragglers on another thread, he's dead to everyone. 😎
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Yeah, sorry about AVTAK @Napoleon Plural , but something has to be at the bottom. 😈
I saw NTTD at the Odeon Leicester Square on opening day and at my local Empire, in Sutton. I don't have any plans to watch it again any time soon. I can't decide if I love it or hate it. For the record, IMO even the worst of the worst of Bond is still better than over 50% of movies out there and I'd watch AVTAK over half the garbage they make these days.
'I can't decide if I love it or hate it'. 🤔 Well, I think we can decide that for you - you hate it! (You sure as hell don't love it.)
What, AVTAK even worse than DAD?
Sutton! You're up the road from me, I'm in Epsom. What were you complaining about making the long journey to London's Prince Charles cinema? I thought you live in Slough or some such place!
Or do you mean Sutton Coldfield?
Roger Moore 1927-2017
I saw it at Odeon Leics Sq on opening night and the Empire at the Cast and Crew screening. The dialogue was fine and I never missed any plot points on those viewings at all. And on multiple viewings chrisno1 seems to have missed most plot points on most viewings as is evident in the write up. I think you need to see it with subtitles when it comes out. You’ll understand so much more then and it will answer most questions you’ve raised.
Good times…
That's me and ChrisNo1's Xmas present sorted out then....
Roger Moore 1927-2017
@Napoleon Plural When I went to try and see OHMSS there was no train service between West Croydon and Balham, so I took a bus to Morden and the underground. That's 90 minutes compared to my usual 45.
@Asp9mm You'll notice I wrote "I miss the days when they explained things properly in a Bond film" and the fact we have websites and forums such as this which debate, explain and validate what is on screen tells me I am not the only one who enjoys clear explanation. It is not always possible to catch every important moment. If you did, grand; I didn't. Most of my questions are not really about plot points either, they're more to do with my impression of the film. Nice pictures BTW.
Eh? I thought you lived in Sutton. 'Bus replacement service' is up there with 'England penalty shootout' as the three most dreaded words in the English language. What about East Croydon - that's straight up to London... this is one of the most bizarre exchanges I have ever had on this website btw. 😁
@Asp9mm I think even when a plot point is explained in NTTD it doesn't necessarily make much sense.
I do feel to balance things out we should have @Loeffelholz and @chrisno1 on a thread slagging off AVTAK - it's only fair. It was only when I was on Twitter I realised how many folk hated Spectre and it's a bit horrible reading them slag it off - its 'piss-stained' cinematography gets a lot of flack, for instance, which I'd not hitherto noticed. I don't recall all that vitriol when it came out.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
I'm in that knotty little enclave of suburban posh called Carshalton-on-the-Hill. Not posh at all, just full of people who think they are. The guy who wrote the movie reviews for Club International used to live locally and mentioned it a lot in very disdainful terms. So, I'd still have to get the bus to East Croydon. Plus, have you been to Croydon recently? Oh dear lord... I'm not sure I complained about the travelling anyway, just stated the fact I did have to make a longish journey. I'm quite used to public transport in London and I usually take the route which has the least messing about. Time isn't that important to me, I'm not expecting to die.... although judging by my hearing I might end up like poor old Fannie Le Fan soon
😆😆
BTW @Napoleon Plural SP has grown on me also, much like QOS. Take away C and the Brother-Blofeld stuff and it's only the last twenty minutes which do it a severe disservice IMO. Sadly, that's an important twenty minutes.
But it is all explained. Not blatantly a la Christmas Jones nonsense. But there’s no ambiguity here. You just missed it all. I think the ‘dumbed down explain it all to everyone ad infinitum’ stuff is annoying and panders to the people who are of a intellect lower than average and then some. Now I’m not saying you’re that demographic, quite the opposite, as it seems you’ve missed out on a load of dialogue -Some people don’t even understand who Vesper was working for 15 years on for crying out loud. But you have indeed missed really important dialogue that explains most of your woes. Roll on blu ray release. You are certainly not in the minority when it comes to sound and understanding what people are saying in this movie.
I still need to see NTTD a second time (unfortunately it's no longer playing in Imax in my area), but @chrisno1's second viewing has provided much food for thought.
"There’s been a lot of comment about the gun barrel. It was alright. I didn’t miss the blood."
I didn't mind the fade-to-white either. I just wish that the final part of the traditional gunbarrel music would return to the dramatic style used in FRWL, instead of reusing that upbeat tag the moment Bond fires at the camera.
"She shoots Safin with a full clip of bullets. The man is surly dead. He even bleeds – although not from his chest – as Little Madeleine drags him outside. Perhaps he is wearing a bullet proof vest. This is not explained."
You're right. His revival was so blatantly unrealistic that it temporarily took me out of the film.
"Hans Zimmer clearly found nothing in the theme tune he could use. I didn’t catch the theme in his score at all."
I really want to know what Zimmer's feeling were about this assignment. Did he resent having to stay under Barry's shadow? I'd like to think the decision to recycle "All the Time in the World" wasn't his.
"Unlike most observers, I like Lea Seydoux. I find her unbreakable-china exterior beguiling."
I don't dislike her, but she never rises beyond her exterior, in the way a Hitchcock blonde would. I don't think Bond would really fall in love with such a person.
"...he wheezes out some half-hearted lies about Madeleine which Bond believes, because he’s a twit and probably because he isn’t really in love, only in need"
I also realize that if Bond was in love with her, it's just as likely that he wouldn't have leapt to the conclusion that Madeline betrayed him. People in love practice all sorts of self-deception.
"I hate the scientist. I can’t even type his name any more. Over the top performance, completely skews every scene he appears in."
He's way too cartoony to fit into the rest of the film. The mismatch in performance styles is jarring.
"I wonder why they didn’t use the real Goldeneye?"
According to this article, Bond's Jamaican pad was "created from scratch on a private beach near Port Antonio, not far from Fleming’s former home, GoldenEye." My guess is that GoldenEye has been so built up since Fleming's death (multiple buildings have been added to the property) that it wouldn't give a sense of hidden-away isolation.
"No reason for Bond to join forces with the CIA. He even mentions this to Nomi yet promptly throws himself into the fray with wild abandon. He ought to have a clearer decision making process."
My feeling is that he was getting bored with retirement and couldn't resist the lure of action.
"It seems simply heartless to kill Felix. Couldn’t they have just had a shark bite his leg off or something? Later on Bond refers to him as his ‘brother’ as in ‘my brother from Langley’ but suggesting something deeper. I never saw this in their friendship."
That's true. We saw they were friends in CR and QoS but not especially close ones. I was shocked when Felix died, but after the film's end his death seems to have been a prelude to Bond's own death.
"Madeleine has hightailed it back to the place of her childhood trauma. She’s done what? Why would she do this? Why does she still live in the same house where her mother got killed?"
This made no sense to me either. That's not how people behave on any planet. The film doesn't say why she would ever want to return to a place with such horrible, traumatic memories.
"Craig gives an earnest speech about how his biggest regret was putting her on the train. Does he say this because Blofeld told him the truth of the situation, or because he regretted it from the get-go? Not clear, should be made clear"
Agreed. Otherwise we don't actually know that he's actually resolved his supposed trust issues. Another part of the ramshackle "personal arc"!
"A car chase. Dull. Too much gun play again. Nomi is late. Too late."
This part of the film definitely doesn't reflect well on her. And the site of Bond driving along in a Range Rover with his "wife" and kid is a bit sad. If the bad guys hadn't shown up he'd have resembled just another prosperous dad taking his family on a Sunday outing.
"...where did he get the hair from? Then I remembered he was folding a hair inside a handkerchief when he visited her office. But how does he know that is her hair? It could be anyone who happens to be blonde...and why is he allowed into the office before the doctor arrives?"
That is what happens when you multiple writers working on the script like piano movers--details that should stressed get lost.
"The two codas. The one in the office is ordinary. The one in the Aston Martin is worse than ordinary, almost sickeningly saccharine."
I liked the use of the Jack London quote, originally quoted in YOLT, during the office scene. But the rest of the scene is a bit flat. I don't want the actors crying or being dramatic, but a visual hint or two of melancholy might have conveyed more grief. The Aston Martin scene felt so fake and self-congratulatory that for a moment I preferred the '67 Casino Royale's treatment of Bond's demise.
You could argue that visiting Vesper's grave stirred up all those old feelings of mistrust that he'd had before, so it was like - wow, second time this is happening. This admittedly works with the idea that from the get-go Craig's Bond is damaged goods, and a bit unhinged almost.
Damn you @Revelator ! I wanted to mention the tie-in with the end of CR 67! Someone has to do that on YouTube. However, knowing the way the producers might feel, it would be Bond descending to the fires of hell.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
"Madeleine has hightailed it back to the place of her childhood trauma. She’s done what? Why would she do this? Why does she still live in the same house where her mother got killed?"
Before I get criticised for being deaf again, I'd like to point out I am aware that Madeleine tells Bond she's "going home" or something similar and when he appears at the Norway pad she's glad he remembered - so she obviously wanted him to find her there. My point is, why would the house still be maintained, lived in, functioning, why is all that Quantum / Spectre stuff still in the cellar? It is a convenience for the writers. It makes no sense character wise for a woman attempting to escape and bury her past to maintain it, as it obviously has been for five years since Mr White died. Even if it hasn't, I fail to understand how nobody knew she had a child. That is just incomprehensible.
Au contraire, @chrisno1 that was the most prescient part of the film for those of us who had to hightail it to our folks house during lockdown to take care of them, plenty of old crap there never thrown away. Okay, doesn't make sense in this case as her Dad Mr White was long gone by that time, for a few years at least.
Funny how I got all the gags but not the plot points. On behalf of myself and probably Chris No 1 I should say that I do usually understand what's going on in movies, that said what we got in the last two years - Mendes' 1917 is really an extended chase scene or road trip lent gravitas by its subject matter and the timing of its release, not many words there; Le Mans 66 largely action not much dialogue thought it's there; The Suicide Squad throws you into it and I didn't like it but I heard everything alright; Midsomer highly memorable, got it all and the same for the rather dismal The Courier, I admit that many of these movies are simplistic and don't require much explaining but that begs the question - why should a Bond movie need a lot of explaining and attention, and shouldn't - as one of our reviewers pointed out - it be more show than tell?
On a side note it's p*ss poor that after a massive refurb that took over a year, Odeon Leicester Square cinema - formerly London's flagship - offers a worse movie experience than the Empire local multiplex in cruddy Sutton.
Some Bonds do require one to pay attention but should you chose not to you can go along with the joie de vivre. You had stuff like The Living Daylights and then things like GoldenEye were just a bit too complicated imo. I think when we saw Madeleine get into the lift with Bond to see Blofeld, it did occur to me - we do have to be paying attention a lot in this film don't we, we have to do a lot of the heavy lifting, it's like one of those restaurants where you show up and have to cook it yourself, or those adventure weekends where you're locked in a room and have to figure out how to escape.
I prefer a movie, Bond or otherwise, where you now the set-up, are armed with the information and then enjoy the spectacle, the action, the gamesmanship between the characters and their situations.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Kind of a non-related question. But there's an image circulating around social media with a close-up of Bond carrying the child through the forest. Does anyone have an HD copy of that?
https://crimereads.com/fatalism-james-bond-series/?fbclid=IwAR0RdGQiu8DEqUQrb78_OWXGE_oOfHrt5lWBLxv6hKWeGYViDU3ux01i7ZA
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
I noticed something the third time i saw the movie. When Bond opens the garage to catch the v8 vantage, who the hell is entering the right door and gets in the car? Did anyone see that? Its right the second after Bond removes the curtain and theres a person getting inside the car.
And the big question is who is that person, because in the next scene when Bond is parking outside Mi6, theres only Bond in the car😅
I have no answer, but I do need to say that Licencetochat is a terrific name, haha.
thanks😂😂
It's Bond. It's just oddly edited. One second you see him on one side of the car having just lifted the cover off and ever so briefly gazing at it, the next split second, he's getting into it on the drivers' side.
yeah, i thought maybe it was ment to be Bond, but i actually think that was little stupid edited, because you almost see his head left in the picture at the same time the right door opens. Everything happens so fast, its crazy
Have you seen "Quantum Of Solace"???? 😂😂😂
Good one😂😂
It's an intentional time cut/transition, and to me felt in keeping with the early spirit of the franchise.
Been a long time since I was on this site, but I just saw NTTD and thought I would share my thoughts. I thoroughly enjoyed the film, it may be my favorite Craig Bond film. The pre-title sequence was excellent, but I hated the title song, thought it dragged, and the title art work was acceptable, I will always miss the girls in the titles but I understand that is not coming back. The film, despite it's length, held my interest throughout. Action sequences were well done and the storyline had some good plot twists. I enjoyed the love story between Bond and Madeleine and found it believable. Have always enjoyed Jeffrey Wright as Leiter and Naomi Harris as Moneypenny and they did not disappoint in this film. I would have Wright as my all-time favorite Leiter. Ana de Armas was a total delight and I wish she had more screen time. Rami Malek was not the most menacing villain, but his understated emotions and body/facial movements were creepy. I thought this may have been Craig's best acting and also thought Lea Seydoux was outstanding. I like films where I can feel for the characters, Bond, Madeleine, Safin, all had suffered loss and all were pained by their loss. I felt the pain each character had endured and that increased my enjoyment of the film.
Couple quick comments, liked how they worked the poison garden from Fleming's novel YOLT into the film and also liked the use of the OHMSS We Have All The Time in the World music into the film. I left the theater very happy, although I did wonder how the producers approach the next film, it will be interesting.
Ranking the Craig films, top to bottom NTTD, Skyfall, Spectre, CR, QOS. My opinion only, I know others think differently.
BARRY!!!!!!! It's great to see you on the site again. I sincerely hope you're doing well and staying safe and healthy.
By odd coincidence, my brother and I just finished watching the movie as well. Alas, I cannot say we shared your sentiments. Maybe it was the fact that we already knew what to expect but the movie really fell flat for me and elicited no emotions whatsoever.
I thought the pre-credits sequence was serivceable at best. While I didn't mind the flashback and Bond's initial run-in with the SPECTRE thugs, the Aston Martin section felt too short; one donut, a few bullets, some smoke and it was all over. Also, Bond really comes across as a complete idiot here, stupidly falling for an orgy of evidence without once questioning whether it was all a manipulation, especially as he already knows that Blofeld has a penchant for this sort of thing.
The title song is probably the worst one in the series for me and that's saying something after Madonna's fingernails on the chalkboard rendition of Die Another Day. At least that had some energy to it; this sounded like it was delivered after a bottle of scotch and a handful of Prozac.
The Cuba scenes were ok but to be honest while Ana DeArmas' anxiety was mildly amusing, the action had an odd pace to it that never really took off for me. The death of Leiter was well done and he and Craig had a good rapport. I actually felt more empathy for Leiter's death than Bond's (more on that later).
From there until reveal of Mathilde the film felt like just a parade of exposition to advance the plot, show us how stupid M has become and generally start to stack the deck for the inevitable conclusion.
The domestic scenes of Bond reconnecting with Madeleine and making his daughter breakfast (let's not kid ourselves, he knows she's his daughter) were boring to me. I know they were an attempt at character building but quite frankly that's the last thing I want from a Bond movie.
The assault on the island was similarly oddly paced with the action coming in fits and starts and never really falling into any kind of a rhythm.
Bond's scenes with Safin did not resonate with me at all. The dialog was hard to understand (a recurring problem with characters constantly whispering, mumbling and generally talking under their breath) and I really didn't understand Safin's motivation for wanting to kill millions. There was some mumbo jumbo about people not really wanting to be safe or some such nonsense but it fell flat and didn't seem genuine.
And then we come to Bond's death. In watching the scenes leading up to it, as the deck is stacked, I could not escape the feeling that I was watching Daniel Craig trying to cement his legacy as Bond by doing something no other actor in the role ever had. It all felt manufactured and disingenuous and when he says "I'm not going to make it" I felt absolutely nothing, other than a simmering resentment at Barbara Broccoli for going there with one of my favorite fictional characters.
Overall, as I watched NTTD, I struggled to equate it with a Bond movie, especially the last third. The attempts at manipulating my emotions failed miserably and all the callbacks to other, in my opinion, better movies felt out of place. I switched it off as soon as the credits started to roll, not even caring enough to wait for the inevitable "James Bond will return" tag at the end. As far as I'm concerned, the creative decisions made by the filmmakers send this one right to the bottom of the heap but that should come as no surprise to anyone who knows my taste in Bond movies. So long Daniel Craig, don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.
Hi Tony, good to hear from you and I am doing fine, thanks for asking. Nice to see you are still on the site. I realized a long time ago that everyone's taste in Bond differs, for example, I did not like CR, but most Bond fans do. Craig is not my favorite Bond, but he has grown on me and I thought he did a nice job in this film. I have mixed thoughts on Bond's death in this film. As I mentioned to my wife after seeing the film, in the past, when a new Bond was introduced, it was just a new actor playing Bond and Bond was sent off on a new mission. The fact that he is supposedly dead, makes me wonder how the producers will move forward. The more I think about it, the more I think the death scene was a mistake.
In many of of the Bond films, Bond supposedly falls in love. In most, I never believed the love between the characters. I believed it in OHMSS with Tracy and actually believed it in TND with Paris. Never believed it in CR with Vesper. In the last two films, I did feel Bond loved Madeleine and that may have helped my investment in the story.
Being a long time (old) Bond fan, my Bond film rankings tend to change over time. I initially did not care for OHMSS but the film has really grown on me. LTK continues to grow on me, so I imagine my feelings on this film will evolve, for better or worse, over time.
Good to hear from you Tony and you still write better reviews than I do. 😉
I'm loving reading all the reviews here (thanks guys), having seen the film here in Australia only a few days ago on it's first full day or release. It felt like a long 5 or 6 weeks (after international release), but we go there in the end.
I'd like to share some brief thoughts below.
Overall:
Some Specifics:
The extended delays in getting this one to theatres have meant I've definitely spent much more time reading from the AJB than I might have on any other 'cycle' between films. Thanks to you all for helping build the excitement. I look forward to more years as a part of the community (I hope!)
All the best,
Snorpley (aka Paul)
@TonyDP says:
The dialog was hard to understand (a recurring problem with characters constantly whispering, mumbling and generally talking under their breath)
AHA ! So it wasn't only me who has this opinion. I hate having to watch a film twice simply to understand what people are saying. Are actors not trained to annunciate properly anymore?
I'm experiencing this more and more in modern movies. I think part of the problem is that the dialog seems to get a lower priority to the sound effects in the overall mix a lot of times so you really have to crank up the volume to hear what people are saying only to then have your eardrums shattered every time there is an explosion.
Some directors also more apt to do this than others; Christopher Nolan has gotten really bad in this regard recently. Bane was often unintelligible in Dark Knight Rises and Tenet had a horribly bad audio mix. I've actually started using closed captions more even though I generally hate doing it because focusing on the text means I sometimes miss the visuals on the screen.
With NTTD Lea Seydoux and Rami Malek in particular would just mumble a lot or speak barely above a whisper. The oddball accent Malek decided to use didn't help either.