951

Re: Coronavirus

A study by Columbia University estimates that 36 000 fewer Americans would have died from Covid-19 if lockdown had happened one week earlier.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/20/us/c … eaths.html

952

Re: Coronavirus

That article would fall under Stage 4 of crisis response.

https://youtu.be/7hsNfNM0SvE?t=269

953

Re: Coronavirus

Number24 wrote:

A study by Columbia University estimates that 36 000 fewer Americans would have died from Covid-19 if lockdown had happened one week earlier.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/20/us/c … eaths.html

And the sad fact is, so many more could still be saved if not for incompetence, selfishness and ignorance.. ajb007/mad

"Any of the opposition around..?"

954

Re: Coronavirus

Having a snake around your neck does not count as mask-wearing!

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk … Radio+Tees

President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

-------Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!------

955

Re: Coronavirus

The autjhorities in the USA are reported to be planning free corona vaccines for all citizens.
But ... isn't that .....................socialism?  ajb007/amazed  ajb007/amazed  ajb007/amazed

956

Re: Coronavirus

ajb007/lol  ajb007/lol  ajb007/lol  Great to see you're against that idea !!!

“I remember the last thing my Nan said to me before she died.
‘What are you doing here with that hammer?’”..... Lee Mack.

957

Re: Coronavirus

I'm not against it, but I don't think we should tell some of the Americans here. They are nice and everything, but I don't think they learn a lot about ideologies at school. I remember one who belived the congess was far left.  ajb007/biggrin

958

Re: Coronavirus

Socialism came to the west years ago,
When the public were forced to bail
Out the Banks  ajb007/lol 
  I think most champagne socialists
Agreed with that, no rich socialist
Wanted to lose any money.  ajb007/wink

“I remember the last thing my Nan said to me before she died.
‘What are you doing here with that hammer?’”..... Lee Mack.

959

Re: Coronavirus

Perhaps you slept through those lessons back in the day? Using tax money to bail out banks isn't socialism, taxing them a lot or even nationalizing them is more their style. Remember it was Bush the Younger who bailed out banks first in the 2008 crisis.

960

Re: Coronavirus

Yes, but it"s still turning private debt
In to National debt. Perhaps you had
A bout of somnambulism at that time  ajb007/tongue

“I remember the last thing my Nan said to me before she died.
‘What are you doing here with that hammer?’”..... Lee Mack.

961

Re: Coronavirus

Thunderpussy wrote:

Socialism came to the west years ago,
When the public were forced to bail
Out the Banks  ajb007/lol 
  I think most champagne socialists
Agreed with that, no rich socialist
Wanted to lose any money.  ajb007/wink

You do make a valid point. Bailing out banks means that they can act with abandon not afforded to any other business. IMHO banks should face realistic business risks, it is the only way to avoid crisis like the subprime debacle of 2008. The fear of losing money would keep them in check. The reason this is not done, is that the price paid by the society in large when a bank fails would be too steep, paid in bankruptcies, unemployment, lost savings and retirement funds and personal tragedies in scores. 

Although I have to point out, that just bailing out banks does not a socialism make. Also there is a quite large leap from socialism to communism.
And finally, the first recorded strike in the Unites States of A was in 1768 and first trade union in America was founded in 1794, so socialism has very deep roots in the US.

"I mean, she almost kills bond...with her ass."
-Mr Arlington Beech

962

Re: Coronavirus

While I agree tat banks have been treated much better than what they deserve - imo it would have been catastrophic if they‘d really failed in 2008 collectively.

Just imagine a total collapse, all your bank assets are null, people lining up and demanding their money back and so on.

What really makes me upset is that so many countries are continuously weakening the stringent measures that this will not happen again because they focus on stock markets and nothing else.

In particular the current resident in the White House practically erased out the ( far too mild) rules for the financial markets that have been set up by his predecessor.

So - as always it‘s easy to call the bailout in 2008 being socialism - but those keyboard warriors with their limited focus and intellect are just like that - as they don‘t need to carry the horrible consequences of the much more painful alternative plans.

President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

-------Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!------

963

Re: Coronavirus

0073 wrote:

[IMHO banks should face realistic business risks, it is the only way to avoid crisis like the subprime debacle of 2008. The fear of losing money would keep them in check.

Sadly the reality of this is that banks are no longer willing to lend money, making it incredibly hard for anyone to get a mortgage or a business loan.

Even with the British Goverment bankrolled the Corninavirus Business Loan scheme - which effectively mean that the banks took no personal risk whatsoever - they were still unwilling to lend, until shamed into doing so by Boris Johnson and the Government.

"How was your lamb?" "Skewered. One sympathises."

964

Re: Coronavirus

Higgins wrote:

So - as always it‘s easy to call the bailout in 2008 being socialism - but those keyboard warriors with their limited focus and intellect are just like that - as they don‘t need to carry the horrible consequences of the much more painful alternative plans.

Let's take Greece as an example: if Greece had been allowed to default back in 2009-2010, then Deutsche Bank and probably Credit Lyonnais would have also gone under. The ripple effect would have gone around the world. It would have been a major crisis on top of the subprime crisis of 2008 and German and French societies would have been hit the hardest, but Dutch, Belgian, British etc. would have taken a hit. People still question the logic of bailing out Greece, but it wasn't Greece that was being bailed out, it was the European private financial institutions, banks.

Funny thing is: the political left has also called it rampant capitalism...  ajb007/lol  ajb007/lol  ajb007/lol

Last edited by 0073 (17th Sep 2020 09:18)

"I mean, she almost kills bond...with her ass."
-Mr Arlington Beech

965

Re: Coronavirus

Charmed & Dangerous wrote:

Sadly the reality of this is that banks are no longer willing to lend money, making it incredibly hard for anyone to get a mortgage or a business loan.

Even with the British Goverment bankrolled the Corninavirus Business Loan scheme - which effectively mean that the banks took no personal risk whatsoever - they were still unwilling to lend, until shamed into doing so by Boris Johnson and the Government.

Banks are rational operators on the market, if the reward is less than (perceived) risks, they will hold on to the money. This is something that has been discussed here in Finland quite a lot: Should banks lend money to failing businesses. As long as banks get better return on their investment by lending their money to ECB, they will not lend it to private operators, be they businesses or citizen. If ECB would charge a negative interest on the money on ECB instruments, then banks would have a real incentive to find clients on the private market.

IMHO the government really should refrain from making business decisions on behalf of any privately operated business. Here in Finland 2 large corporations just announced of major cuts and the cabinet ministers started immediately screaming bloody murder. It's a funny thing when a lifelong leftist politician turns into an expert on corporate finance/restructuring when it suits them.

Last edited by 0073 (17th Sep 2020 09:31)

"I mean, she almost kills bond...with her ass."
-Mr Arlington Beech

966

Re: Coronavirus

I think post 962 proves my point about champagne socialists only the rich
with money to lose needed the Banks bailed out. The rest of us " The working poor "
had nothing to lose. we had no shares or  savings, yet we had to take on the Debt of
the Banks.
Then again that is socialism  just like capitalism  the rich get richer and the poor ....
... well who cares about the poor, Except when there's an election on....... or you
want to virtue signal  ajb007/biggrin

“I remember the last thing my Nan said to me before she died.
‘What are you doing here with that hammer?’”..... Lee Mack.

967

Re: Coronavirus

Thunderpussy wrote:

I think post 962 proves my point about champagne socialists only the rich
with money to lose needed the Banks bailed out. The rest of us " The working poor "
had nothing to lose. we had no shares or  savings, yet we had to take on the Debt of
the Banks.
Then again that is socialism  just like capitalism  the rich get richer and the poor ....
... well who cares about the poor, Except when there's an election on....... or you
want to virtue signal  ajb007/biggrin

Yeah, nothing to lose except the jobs that would have been lost when the companies having funds/financing from the failing banks would have gone under.

"I mean, she almost kills bond...with her ass."
-Mr Arlington Beech

968

Re: Coronavirus

So no company has every been bought by another company when things go bad !
Wow!!  I WONDER  how those countries
Who Didn't bail out their banks  are doing ........ why look, they seem to be doing fine  ajb007/biggrin

“I remember the last thing my Nan said to me before she died.
‘What are you doing here with that hammer?’”..... Lee Mack.

969

Re: Coronavirus

Thunderpussy wrote:

So no company has every been bought by another company when things go bad !
Wow!!  I WONDER  how those countries
Who Didn't bail out their banks  are doing ........ why look, they seem to be doing fine  ajb007/biggrin

And which country would that be?

"I mean, she almost kills bond...with her ass."
-Mr Arlington Beech

970

Re: Coronavirus

0073 wrote:

Banks are rational operators on the market, if the reward is less than (perceived) risks, they will hold on to the money. This is something that has been discussed here in Finland quite a lot: Should banks lend money to failing businesses.

I don't think that individuals wishing to buy a house count as 'failing businesses', nor successful businesses affected by Covid19.

0073 wrote:

IMHO the government really should refrain from making business decisions on behalf of any privately operated business.

The British Government, for all its many faults, offered to provide a loan to businesses to help them through - the loan needs to be repaid in due course - a laudable approach which IMO doesn't count as making decisions on behalf of businesses. Bearing in mind the systemic collapse which would have resulted in the widespread fallout of Covid19, which affected almost every business, I'm glad they didn't take a less humane approach.

"How was your lamb?" "Skewered. One sympathises."

971

Re: Coronavirus

Just off the top of my head
From memory Canada, Australia  and
Iceland, but I'm sure a Google search
Will reveal others.

“I remember the last thing my Nan said to me before she died.
‘What are you doing here with that hammer?’”..... Lee Mack.

972

Re: Coronavirus

Canada's banks were in no danger of failing in 2008 because we never deregulated the mortgage industry as had been done in the United States, thanks for asking.

Since you want to see what happens when banks are allowed to fail, why don't you do a Google search on the year 1929?
or better yet talk about Coronavirus, the topic of the thread?

973

Re: Coronavirus

I wasn't the one who started the conversation about the banks
And socialism  .... you might want
To do a search on your facts before
Blaming others  ajb007/rolleyes

“I remember the last thing my Nan said to me before she died.
‘What are you doing here with that hammer?’”..... Lee Mack.

974

Re: Coronavirus

Thunderpussy wrote:

I wasn't the one who started the conversation about the banks
And socialism  .... you might want
To do a search on your facts before
Blaming others  ajb007/rolleyes

Now, now, don't take it personally. This has been fun and insightful, if a bit off topic. Although it is good for me to say, being in large part faulty of the off topic conversation here.  So lets take it back to topic with this last parting shot on the banks and Iceland not bailing out banks: 2008–2011 Icelandic financial crisis. Do a G-search, you might find it interesting. If you can't be bothered, here's the gen:" Iceland's systemic banking collapse was the largest experienced by any country in economic history. The crisis led to a severe economic depression in 2008–2010 and significant political unrest."... "The equity in all three new banks was supplied by the Icelandic government, and amounted to 30% of Iceland's GDP. The new banks will also have to reimburse their predecessors for the net value of the transferred assets, as determined by "recognised appraisers". As of 14 November 2008, these net values were estimated as: NBI ISK558.1bn (€3.87bn), Nýi Glitnir ISK442.4bn (€2.95bn); Nýja Kaupþing ISK172.3bn (€1.14bn). The total debt of 1173 billion krónur is more than 90% of Iceland's 2007 gross domestic product." ... "The rescue operations of the central bank along with the restructuring and recapitalization of the banks increased the public debt ratio by about 20 percentage points of GDP."
So Icelandic government did not bail out the banks, this is true, but went straight to the core of socialism, and nationalized the banks. Which in the end probably (I'm guessing here, I have no competence to really make an estimation) ended up costing the
taxpayers more, than just straight bail out money.

Aand back to the topic: The scare in Finland currently is: what happens to the ice hockey season, 3 teams are already in quarantine after pre-season friendlies.

Last edited by 0073 (18th Sep 2020 06:30)

"I mean, she almost kills bond...with her ass."
-Mr Arlington Beech

975

Re: Coronavirus

This weekend I saw people wearing face masks for the first time during the Age of Corona - three of them!
This weekend was also my first visit to a town since corona started (and it was a town close to the Swedish border), so this probably goes some way towards explaining my lack of mask exposure.