The 60s Bond Rivals (2): Harry Palmer

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  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,060Chief of Staff
    Of the two later ones, "Bullet" is the better IMHO.

    In "Funeral", none of the scenes were shot in the east.

    Other Bond crew members who worked on "Funeral" include Peter Murton and Ben Rayner- and Harry Saltzman!
  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 5,686MI6 Agent
    Harry Palmer is back:

    Peaky Blinders star Joe Cole will take on the iconic role of Harry Palmer, first played by Michael Caine, in ITV’s new adaptation of the classic Len Deighton spy novel, The Ipcress File.

    He’ll be joined by Bohemian Rhapsody star Lucy Boynton and Us star Tom Hollander in the planned six-part series which has been written by Trainspotting scriptwriter John Hodge and will be directed by Emmy Award-winner James Watkins (McMafia, Black Mirror, The Woman In Black).

    https://deadline.com/2020/12/itv-the-ipcress-file-john-hodge-joe-cole-lucy-boynton-tom-hollander-1234653664/

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    It all sounds rather decent, I'm very glad to hear they're doing this.
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,060Chief of Staff
    I can't wait!!!
  • chrisno1chrisno1 LondonPosts: 3,178MI6 Agent
    I can.....
  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 5,686MI6 Agent
    Barbel wrote:
    I can't wait!!!

    Yes it sounds pretty good, and I like the casting.

    It doesn’t sound hugely faithful to the novel, but I guess the movie wasn’t either! :)
  • caractacus pottscaractacus potts Orbital communicator, level 10Posts: 3,907MI6 Agent
    I'm not a big fan of remakes in general, in this case I'd really rather the originals were just easier to find on dvd.
  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 5,686MI6 Agent
    I don't think think that the first attempt at an adaptation is automatically the best there can ever be.
  • Napoleon PluralNapoleon Plural LondonPosts: 10,239MI6 Agent
    Without getting involved in spoilers, I'd say the book of The Ipcress File is pretty different to the film. In fact, the book's plot popped up in an episode of The Avengers - the 60s cult series - one with Christopher Lee in. That said the book does the whole grammar school kid or thereabouts up against the whole public school gang and frankly who is to say it's not kind of like that now.
    The book has more exotic events in it than the film.
    "This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

    Roger Moore 1927-2017
  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 5,686MI6 Agent
    The book has more exotic events in it than the film.

    Yes indeed, this one at least will be set outside of the UK in part, unlike the film version.
  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 5,686MI6 Agent
    I missed it last week but we got our first look at the new Harry as they've been filming in Liverpool. He's kept his glasses on!

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  • Golrush007Golrush007 South AfricaPosts: 3,418Quartermasters
    I'm looking forward to seeing how this turns out. I'm struck by how boyish Joe Cole looks compared to Michael Caine in the film, despite the fact that both actors were roughly the same age at the time of playing the part. Cole looks early 20s to me in the pictures I've seen.
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,060Chief of Staff
    Seriously looking forward to seeing this. I hope it's a success and they then do a version of Len Deighton's next book, "Horse Under Water", since that has never been filmed.
  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 5,686MI6 Agent
    Golrush007 wrote:
    I'm looking forward to seeing how this turns out. I'm struck by how boyish Joe Cole looks compared to Michael Caine in the film, despite the fact that both actors were roughly the same age at the time of playing the part.

    I think they're actually exactly the same age! :)

    But it's fine he seems young to me, I got the impression from the first movie that Harry wasn't all that old anyway. He'd been through the army, was a bachelor and was joining MI5 pretty much as a recruit. He was wise to the world and mature, but not necessarily old.
  • caractacus pottscaractacus potts Orbital communicator, level 10Posts: 3,907MI6 Agent

    I'm partway through rewatching the first film. I've posted some observations over in the Shakespeare WorkShop thread, because theyre working on a Ye Olde and Improved version called The Ipcress Folio.

    but a few stray thoughts that don't fit there:


    Ken Adam is credited for set design. We dont get the scifi sets we expect from the Bond films, but there are a couple of stunning interiors he must have constructed.

    Palmer's apartment with the low wood beams and the elaborate kitchen that seems to overspill its portion of the floorplan. I think he's meant to live in a small cluttered apartment and a lot of the area is given over to cooking needs. Supposedly theres actual Len Deighton published recipes pinned up on his walls. The area round the hifi's quite important to this character as well and well-ordered, the rest is a bit of a mess.

    Dalby's office is large and spacious, but a bit archaic. He's old school and has no need for all that modern rot cluttering the place up.

    The office where Palmer is assigned to work is a beauty with that big window overlooking the street. Lucky new employee to be given the window seat his first day on the job! That sort of space may have been more typical in the 1960s, may not have been significant. but viewing t from 2022 I think thats the sort of tastefully renovated heritage building that is usually rented out to architects, dot com companies, or graphics professionals: corporate types who want to work downtown in a hip retro office and can afford it, part of their image to impress clients. Other businesses like banks are more rational and move into modern, cheap efficient and ugly offices, which make up most of the downtown of the city these days. Offices like where Harry works are now very rare.

    Other architecture seen is quite beautiful, not drab at all despite the film's reputation. That library interior is magnificent!


    Barry's score is quite different from Bond but there are some familiar sounding cues. the rising tension motif as Palmer realises theres someone in his apartment sounds like an outtake from Thunderball.


    I've seen Nigel Green in a bunch of other stuff since first viewing this, and love every scene he's in. He would seem to anticipate Graham Chapman's Colonel character, maybe also The Brigadier from Doctor Who. but the whole performance is probably a stock type, I just dont know from real life because I've never been in the military and I'm not British.

    Still I'm confused about what Dalby's motivation is from scene to scene. Is he telling his agents to stick to pointless procedure instead of inspiration because he's so old fashioned and stuck in his ways, or is he deliberately wasting their time so the villains are not caught? it might make sense he's cleverer than he seems, yet he does reward Palmer as he makes progress and gives him more resources, so it doesnt seem consistent.

    On second viewing its obvious from the very first dialog Ross is planting Palmer as a mole in his rival's office, and the girlfriend is similarly placed. Somehow that seemed more obscure first viewing but the dialog actually underlines this repeatedly.

  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 5,686MI6 Agent

    It's certainly an apt time to bring this thread back, as Harry returns to our screens this very evening.

  • caractacus pottscaractacus potts Orbital communicator, level 10Posts: 3,907MI6 Agent

    so did anybody watch this new version of The Ipcress File? what did you think?

  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 5,686MI6 Agent
    edited March 2022

    I really liked it, I thought it was very enjoyable. It won't set the world on fire, but give me a 60s spy drama rather than some regional murder detective drama any day of the week.

    I loved that they made more of Harry being co-opted into becoming a spy and having him actually try and escape: that was really interesting and actually in retrospect makes Caine's film version seem a bit odd for just going along with it so easily. I thought Cole made for a really good lead too; he's very engaging and likeable, even though he's giving a very unshowy and minimal performance as Caine did (although in a different way). I'm very happy with him as Harry: he feels like a proper star of the show- I missed him when he wasn't onscreen, which must be a good sign. Tom Hollander is as wonderfully watchable as ever of course.

    So far I'm very much enjoying the story and looking forward to seeing where it's going. I like the international flavour too; it makes it nicely different from the film.


    I noticed it was exec produced by Harry Saltzman's daughter Hilary and son Steven, so I guess the family may still own the Palmer character?

    (Edit: sadly I notice Hilary passed away three years ago)

  • caractacus pottscaractacus potts Orbital communicator, level 10Posts: 3,907MI6 Agent

    mtm sez:

    I noticed it was exec produced by Harry Saltzman's daughter Hilary and son Steven, so I guess the family may still own the Palmer character?

    oh thats a cool parallel, that makes them the Babs n Mike of the Palmer franchise!

    so is it like a mini-series? how many hours / parts?

  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 5,686MI6 Agent

    I think it’s six parts, hour long episodes. All episodes are now up on ITV Hub and Britbox, I may well watch ep 2 tomorrow.

  • Napoleon PluralNapoleon Plural LondonPosts: 10,239MI6 Agent

    I enjoyed it, they did something different with it. Not having seen Peaky, I didn't know Joe Cole but he was good in this, channelling Caine a bit but not that obviously, he did his own thing with it too. Its approach is tilted camera angles and quite polished and stylised - it never really looks depressing or seedy like the early 60s could.

    Unlike Barbel, I never quite got on with the book of The Iprcess File, I found the style a bit off-putting, I didn't warm to it. I made it to the end. I was interested to see how this series played up Harry's role in the Army as a racketeer, filled in his backstory a bit. In the film it was played down perhaps because they still wanted the idea that Harry might be a heroic character looking to do good at some point rather than just trying to escape the whole time. This seems to happen in Episode 1 but didn't quite get - it being late, I was watching on ITV +1 - how that didn't make him a no-go, being caught in the act absconding with money given him.

    I'll watch next week, it's enjoyable though not exactly authentic. I get the impression that Ross could have been played by - name escapes me, played C in Spectre and Moriaty in Sherlock - as with that actor you feel he could go either way, both good guy and villain.

    "This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

    Roger Moore 1927-2017
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,060Chief of Staff
    edited March 2022

    Andrew Scott, Napoleon.

    Edit- halfway through Ep 1. Cole isn't bad, clearly channeling Sir Michael a few times as you say but not letting it dominate his Palmer. The Bride is already telling me not to mention the words "John Barry" again every time there's music.

    I think what Hodge is doing is what Jackson & team did with "The Hobbit"- letting sentences be paragraphs, paragraphs become pages, etc. Small details are expanded on. However, still only at the start so I may be proven wrong later.

    Further edit- as well as Babs & Mike Saltzman (yes, I know), Len Deighton's son is a producer.

  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 5,686MI6 Agent
    edited March 2022

    I think it's interesting that Ross doesn't seem to be in it.

    Hodge says in this interview that he thinks "Deighton lost interest in the plot halfway through the novel", so I'm expecting it to go in a different way in the last few episodes. Which I'm up for: like yourself I'm not totally in love with the book either. He also mentions which book he'd like to do next.

    I expected the stuff with his backstory in Berlin to feel like padding, after all the film sweeps all that away with a couple of lines; but they actually tied it in with the main plot very effectively and it gives a real sense of where Palmer's character is at and what his motivations are. It actually made me think that the film missed a trick with that. So far I'm quite impressed by the plotting, and I think Cole is making for an excellent lead, so I'm really rather happy with it.

    Like yourself Barbel I'm not a big fan of the music, but it's not terrible. The weird thing is I keep hearing Barry in my head, even though we had two Palmer films in which I didn't really miss him! This one hasn't even really shared any scenes with the film (maybe the coffee grinder) so I'm not sure why I'm feeling the Barry loss more than in, say, Funeral!

    As they have so heartily embraced Harry Palmer from the movies, I wonder if they looked into using A Man Alone as a theme? I expect it would have just been too expensive, but it would be nice if it became his theme, just like Bond has one.

  • superdaddysuperdaddy englandPosts: 917MI6 Agent

    Watched it.. sack research team… Glosters regiment was my old regiment… they had palmer wearing Glosters capbadge but no backbadge(only regiment in British army that had this) … had Palmer apparently join Glosters in 1952 in Korea… the battalion was back in uk in 52 after being POW for nearly 2 years after battle of Imjin river…. This is set in 1963….glosters didn’t serve in Berlin till 1967-69 then again in 1986-88 (I did this tour)seriously if using genuine regiment… let’s get it right!

  • Napoleon PluralNapoleon Plural LondonPosts: 10,239MI6 Agent

    @superdaddy this needs to be a 50-word or so letter in the Sunday Times Culture magazine - email telly@sunday-times.co.uk ! They love this kind of stuff.

    "This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

    Roger Moore 1927-2017
  • superdaddysuperdaddy englandPosts: 917MI6 Agent

    I just might😂

  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,060Chief of Staff
    edited March 2022

    Now finished Ep2, and liking it more and more. It's nice to occasionally see a scene or hear a name from the novel or film, but otherwise it's going its own way.

  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 5,686MI6 Agent

    Sounds good to me! All the reviews I’ve seen are positive so I’m looking forward to more.

  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,060Chief of Staff

    I was surprised to see series character Colonel Stok in this adaptation, since he isn't in the book. He's played by David Dencik, who played the annoying little alchemist in "No Time To Alienate Half the Fanbase". Not knocking Dencik as an actor, but he doesn't hold a candle to Oskar Homolka in "Funeral In Berlin" and "Billion Dollar Brain".

  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 5,686MI6 Agent

    I've just done ep2 as well; like yourself I'm enjoying this more and more. It's well-written stuff.

  • chrisno1chrisno1 LondonPosts: 3,178MI6 Agent

    Watched Ep 1 tonight. Rather enjoyed it. The racketeering back story thread was quite good and enabled me to identify with Joe Cole's version of Palmer rather than consider him to be knock off of Caine's. This is definitely a plus. He's good. I also liked Lucy Boynton who played Jean, although the push & pull private life back story they've constructed for her doesn't seem entirely of necessity [... yet ?] Regards the music, I thought I heard faint echoes of Richard Rodney Bennet's superb Billion Dollar Brain score. I thought they did the seedy / sleaziness quite well without over stressing it, much how the original film did. The episode ended on a moment of surprise and intrigue. I'll be watching in weekly doses.

    I never got around to the novel; I started it once and found it impenetrable. Deighton's on my 'to do' list, but I haven't gotten to him yet.

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