Mr. O'Roarke's Crabs

darenhatdarenhat The Old PuebloPosts: 2,029Quartermasters
Okay, so I'm watching AVTAK last night, and the crusty character Mr. O'Roarke pops up looking like he just climbed out of a commercial for a frozen fish sticks and mentions something about the mystery of his missing crabs of which he suspects Zorin is to blame. These leads Bond to investigate Zorin's oil rig set-up a bit closer.

Now they don't really explain it, but I believe you see a crab clinging to the grate over one of the pipe intakes. I suppose this is implying that O'Roarke's crabs are being sucked into the pipeline and being deposited somewhere underneath the San Andreas Fault. The question I have is why does Bond follow these silly leads to figure out what Zorin is up to? Missing crabs, oil pipelines, and even horse racing, has absolutely nothing to do with the supposed leaking of chip technology to the Soviets. The more I watch AVTAK the less sense it makes to me, including why Bond dashes off to Paris to find out what leads the French detective has in uncovering Zorin's irrelevant horse racing capers. I just don't get it!

Comments

  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,053Chief of Staff
    Going purely from memory (so I can't quote the source offhand), I seem to recall reading somewhere that there was originally a subplot going into that crab business in more detail. I don't know if this was ever shot and later dumped, or not.
  • PoorMansJBPoorMansJB USAPosts: 1,198MI6 Agent
    edited September 2006
    Barbel wrote:
    Going purely from memory (so I can't quote the source offhand), I seem to recall reading somewhere that there was originally a subplot going into that crab business in more detail. I don't know if this was ever shot and later dumped, or not.

    I don't know the details but it was filmed. The fishermen lead a protest against Zorin Oil and Zorin sends a security team out to deal with them. Presumably Zorin doesn't want the protesters calling attention to his activities yet Bond considers Zorin's response heavy-handed for a small group excercisng their right to free speech.

    Interesting ... the scenese with the Paris police of which I was originally unaware were included in the extras on the last DVD but this material wasn't. Maybe on the new DVD (not out in the U.S. yet)?

    *******

    BTW, maybe this should be in the Films forum?
  • HardyboyHardyboy Posts: 5,882Chief of Staff
    PoorMansJB wrote:
    BTW, maybe this should be in the Films forum?

    It should, ergo I'm moving it. And just to add my two cents, darenhat exposes yet another reason this film is low on my Bond totem pole. As for the thread's title, "Mr. O'Roarke's Crabs," well, I won't go into what that brings to mind. . .
    Vox clamantis in deserto
  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,988Quartermasters
    edited September 2006
    Hardyboy wrote:
    ...As for the thread's title, "Mr. O'Roarke's Crabs," well, I won't go into what that brings to mind. . .

    I'm reminded of what befell a friend of mine in Zaragoza, Spain, in 1981...and it occurred in the shadow of the local cathedral (in this case, it was more like, "Maria-Pilar's Crabs") ... :o boldly going where so many had gone before...
    Check out my Amazon author page! Mark Loeffelholz
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  • jetsetwillyjetsetwilly Liverpool, UKPosts: 1,048MI6 Agent
    PoorMansJB wrote:
    Interesting ... the scenese with the Paris police of which I was originally unaware were included in the extras on the last DVD but this material wasn't. Maybe on the new DVD (not out in the U.S. yet)?

    It is indeed on the DVD; you'll be happy to hear that it features Patrick Bauchau attempting to act again.

    AVTAK is awash with subplots that go nowhere. The microchip, the horse racing, the KGB involvement, the crab fishing, Stacy's family being swindled, Zorin's genetic past... It's perhaps the worst case in the series of stuff being thrown at the audience to divert them from noticing what a hollow centre the film has.
    Founder of the Wint & Kidd Appreciation Society.

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  • JennyFlexFanJennyFlexFan Posts: 1,497MI6 Agent
    PoorMansJB wrote:
    Interesting ... the scenese with the Paris police of which I was originally unaware were included in the extras on the last DVD but this material wasn't. Maybe on the new DVD (not out in the U.S. yet)?

    It is indeed on the DVD; you'll be happy to hear that it features Patrick Bauchau attempting to act again.

    AVTAK is awash with subplots that go nowhere. The microchip, the horse racing, the KGB involvement, the crab fishing, Stacy's family being swindled, Zorin's genetic past... It's perhaps the worst case in the series of stuff being thrown at the audience to divert them from noticing what a hollow centre the film has.

    If they were smart, they would've had Alison Doody yelling at the protesters... any of the extra scenes feature her?

    The crab fishing leads Bond to the fact that seawater is being pumped into Zorin's OIL pipelines where SEAWATER shouldn't be pumped into the wells. Howe tells him it's safe but Stacey tells him it isn't meaning there has to be foul play going on with this whole seawater punmping operation.

    Stacey's family is to give background into the character and why she has a "vendetta" against Max Zorin, and is determined to unearth the suspicious activities.

    Zorin's horse subplot is just to show (like Goldfinger) what a jerk he is. He is cheating by using steroids and microchips (which leads into the major plot about how Zorin is hoarding and planning to monopolize the market), the KGB are against Zorin because his horse racing is causing attention and they don't want themselves implicated in that fiasco.

    Zorin's past is also just about the character, and how this supposedly capitalistic and pro-British businessman is actually a psychotic, evil Nazi experiment created in a test tube and to show what a sadistic freak he is.

    Many of these subplots are just trying to expand the characters, (though it wouldn't have hurt them to expand Jenny and Pan Ho more) or they just help the main plot along in a way.
  • 742617000027742617000027 Posts: 25MI6 Agent
    edited September 2006
    the horse racing, the KGB involvement, the crab fishing, Stacy's family being swindled, Zorin's genetic past...

    Maybe the scriptwriters for A View To A Kill took a basic plot, about the faultline, and decided to throw in sub-plots from the Dallas and Dynasty rejected ideas bin.
  • darenhatdarenhat The Old PuebloPosts: 2,029Quartermasters
    I disagree about these plot points helping to expand the characters. My point is that they seem to be dwelt on too much and they really really distract from the plot. Bond has absolutely NO REASON to think that investigating Zorin's horse-racing and why his horses perform so well would have ANY CONNECTION to if, how, or why Zorin would be sharing technological secrets with the Soviets, yet he spends a lot of time poking around stables as if Pegasus or Ithacus Code were somehow the traitors.

    I understand that Bond finds out that Zorin is up to no good with pumping seawater into the pipeline, but his only incentive to investigate the rig in the first place was because some crusty sailor blames Zorin for his missing crabs. Bond has no reason to suspect that MISSING CRABS are somehow connected to his mission, yet he investigates anyway.

    However, these ridiculous subplots do lend some weight to one of the better pieces of dialogue in the film:

    ZORIN (in response to 007's threat of MI6 sending more agents after him: "They'll most likely try to cover up your embarassing incompetence."
    BOND's REPLY: "Don't count on it, Zorin!"
  • taitytaity Posts: 702MI6 Agent
    No, sorry about that one JFF, none of the new scenes show your leading lady. There is however a rather suprising one of the Roger saying the word fcuk. That caught me off guard. (they do bleep it, but still)

    As for the crabs, if not the entire horse racing - maybe they felt that the original Zorin/Frisco plot wasnt enough to make up an entire movie.
  • Napoleon PluralNapoleon Plural LondonPosts: 10,239MI6 Agent
    Never mind all that, Roger bangs May Day and Slapper Sutton, but not Jenny Flex, right JFF? :D

    Now that's crazy.
    "This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

    Roger Moore 1927-2017
  • TOOTSTOOTS Posts: 114MI6 Agent
    I understand that the subplot involved Zorin trying to set up a seafood franchise restaurant once he had wiped out Silicon Valley. The franchise was his memory of the one lasting present his bodyguard and lover, May Day had given him. It was going to be called "Zorins Crabs". (this missing cue from the soundtrack is the only remnant of this plot). When Zorin proposes the .... domination....of Silicon Valley, this is what he means.

    Part of the sequence in Chantilly was the recording of the radio jingle:

    "Come to Zorins Crabs
    Have whatever Grabs You
    Me and my militant army
    Will serve you Silicon Carne!"

    For some strange reason, it never made it to the film
  • Hunter HarryHunter Harry Posts: 21MI6 Agent
    Nice title.
  • Sir Hillary BraySir Hillary Bray College of ArmsPosts: 2,174MI6 Agent
    TOOTS wrote:
    "Come to Zorins Crabs
    Have whatever Grabs You
    Me and my militant army
    Will serve you Silicon Carne!"

    :)) :)) :)) Surely The Cat can locate this missing sound bite!
    Hilly...you old devil!
  • JennyFlexFanJennyFlexFan Posts: 1,497MI6 Agent
    Never mind all that, Roger bangs May Day and Slapper Sutton, but not Jenny Flex, right JFF? :D

    Now that's crazy.

    Well, I could undertsand Stacey but how he passed up Jenny we'll never know. But I think she was repulsed by the double entendre as when she's leading him into the room she gives him a really dirty look.

    The Chantilly jingle of course would be helped if Jenny and Pan Ho both sang in it. Though Pan Ho would botch it up like Saint John Smith and be like "Zollin's Clabs!"
  • PoorMansJBPoorMansJB USAPosts: 1,198MI6 Agent
    For some strange reason, it never made it to the film

    As we all know, VTAK opens with that odd disclaimer about Zorin. This thread hightlights yet another bizarre coincidence: The actual Zorin owned a Long John Silver's franchise, was a major stockholder in Mrs.Paul's, and once posed for the Gorton's Fisherman logo!
  • heartbroken_mr_draxheartbroken_mr_drax New Zealand Posts: 2,073MI6 Agent
    the crabs wouldnt have been sucked away, the water was just disturbed, thats why the crabs just dissapered to somewhere else
    1. TWINE 2. FYEO 3. MR 4. TLD 5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS 7. DN 8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. QoS 12. GE 13. CR 14. TB 15. FRWL 16. TND 17. LTK 18. GF 19. SF 20. LaLD 21. YOLT 22. NTTD 23. DAD 24. DAF. 25. SP

    "Better make that two."
  • JennyFlexFanJennyFlexFan Posts: 1,497MI6 Agent
    heartbroken_mr_drax, does that mean you are a fan of AVTAK?
  • heartbroken_mr_draxheartbroken_mr_drax New Zealand Posts: 2,073MI6 Agent
    heartbroken_mr_drax, does that mean you are a fan of AVTAK?

    i love it, i think its fantastic. its a shame it gets such a bad rap
    1. TWINE 2. FYEO 3. MR 4. TLD 5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS 7. DN 8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. QoS 12. GE 13. CR 14. TB 15. FRWL 16. TND 17. LTK 18. GF 19. SF 20. LaLD 21. YOLT 22. NTTD 23. DAD 24. DAF. 25. SP

    "Better make that two."
  • JennyFlexFanJennyFlexFan Posts: 1,497MI6 Agent
    Yay! We're still growing in numbers! I also presume you're a fan of the scrumptious Jenny Flex.
  • heartbroken_mr_draxheartbroken_mr_drax New Zealand Posts: 2,073MI6 Agent
    Yay! We're still growing in numbers! I also presume you're a fan of the scrumptious Jenny Flex.

    yes i am, i loved that scene, "im an early rider myself"
    1. TWINE 2. FYEO 3. MR 4. TLD 5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS 7. DN 8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. QoS 12. GE 13. CR 14. TB 15. FRWL 16. TND 17. LTK 18. GF 19. SF 20. LaLD 21. YOLT 22. NTTD 23. DAD 24. DAF. 25. SP

    "Better make that two."
  • darenhatdarenhat The Old PuebloPosts: 2,029Quartermasters
    edited October 2006
    the crabs wouldnt have been sucked away, the water was just disturbed, thats why the crabs just dissapered to somewhere else


    Which is exactly what Bond suggests. But our salty sea dog prompty shuts down that theory "They didn't go nowhere...they just disappeared!" he says. Hence...the mystery!
  • heartbroken_mr_draxheartbroken_mr_drax New Zealand Posts: 2,073MI6 Agent
    i think hes just an old buccanear with a briney story that makes it more mysterious ;)

    when there is only one explination, they swam far far away
    1. TWINE 2. FYEO 3. MR 4. TLD 5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS 7. DN 8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. QoS 12. GE 13. CR 14. TB 15. FRWL 16. TND 17. LTK 18. GF 19. SF 20. LaLD 21. YOLT 22. NTTD 23. DAD 24. DAF. 25. SP

    "Better make that two."
  • AlexAlex The Eastern SeaboardPosts: 2,694MI6 Agent
    edited October 2006
    darenhat wrote:
    the crabs wouldnt have been sucked away, the water was just disturbed, thats why the crabs just dissapered to somewhere else


    Which is exactly what Bond suggests. But our salty sea dog prompty shuts down that theory "They didn't go nowhere...they just disappeared!" he says. Hence...the mystery!
    Perhaps these were the same crabs brought in to assault Honey Ryder, and we all know the buggers weren't particularly good actors, they rarely moved and looked less imposing then intended. Perhaps this repeated in AVTAK? :)

    (or maybe the crustaceans took one look at the script and scurried away) :D
  • JennyFlexFanJennyFlexFan Posts: 1,497MI6 Agent
    Alex wrote:
    darenhat wrote:
    the crabs wouldnt have been sucked away, the water was just disturbed, thats why the crabs just dissapered to somewhere else


    Which is exactly what Bond suggests. But our salty sea dog prompty shuts down that theory "They didn't go nowhere...they just disappeared!" he says. Hence...the mystery!
    Perhaps these were the same crabs brought in to assault Honey Ryder, and we all know the buggers weren't particularly good actors, they rarely moved and looked less imposing then intended. Perhaps this repeated in AVTAK? :)

    (or maybe the crustaceans took one look at the script and scurried away) :D

    Ha ha ha, it's very fashionable to take a shot at AVTAK, isn't it? ;)
  • AlexAlex The Eastern SeaboardPosts: 2,694MI6 Agent
    Hey, If I'm forced to hear that a third Dalton movie would have ended the series, then surely you can put up with a few potshots at AVTAK. ;)
  • taitytaity Posts: 702MI6 Agent
    Whoa Alex, good work there.

    WOrth a note, I rewatched the protest scene on the DVD again (yes, the one the americans dont have) and it doesnt help explain the crab situation. BUT, it does make it seem a little more than some crazy old sea dog moaning about not being able to go to a dentist.
  • JennyFlexFanJennyFlexFan Posts: 1,497MI6 Agent
    Alex wrote:
    Hey, If I'm forced to hear that a third Dalton movie would have ended the series, then surely you can put up with a few potshots at AVTAK. ;)

    I've put up with more than a few! Anyway, I'm used to all the AVTAK slandering (and I tried to make an organization to prevent it, but sadly it failed due to a certain rogue agent). Well, I can certainly put up with the AVTAK slandering as much as the Dalton loving, and hopefully, you can also put up w/ the Dalton hating and the AVTAK loving. Whatever, we're all Bond fans here. :D
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