What Should Bond 22 Be?

DAWUSSDAWUSS My homepagePosts: 517MI6 Agent
While it may be just a wee bit early for talk about Bond 22, I'm just curious as to what you're thoughts are on it now, after seeing DC in CR. While many people have good confidence in him now that they've seen him perform (according to the critics given at AJB), I'm also curious as to how he will perform under a new scenario, one that may not be as... shall I say, "dark and serious" as CR? Will MGM now begin to head back into sci-fi land for 007 once again, like in MR and DAD? Will we hear enough one-liners to the extent where the average user becomes sick of it?

... and not to forget the most important question: When will Bond 22 be released?


(If you're wondering why I'm looking forward so quickly, blame my football coach mentality)

***
EDIT: Title changed to make it more specific and because there are too many topics titled "Bond 22." HB
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Comments

  • EaglemanEagleman Posts: 26MI6 Agent
    The next film should be a remake of On Her Majesty's Secret Service. And follow that with a version of You Only Live Twice which follows Bond going after Blofeld. Just stay true to the books.

    Can you imagine Daniel Craig weeping over the body of his dead wife? That would be worth seeing!-{
  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,988Quartermasters
    edited November 2006
    I doubt very much they're going to go back to the 'tragedy' well so soon...

    I look for the next one to be much more 'Precious Classic Formula'---traditional gunbarrel at the beginning; Q; Moneypenny, etc.---though they can certainly continue with the overall tone, as far as I'm concerned :)
    Check out my Amazon author page! Mark Loeffelholz
    "I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
    "Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
  • jhermanjherman Posts: 59MI6 Agent
    edited November 2006
    I think the next Bond will be classic Bond,Craig was great in Casino Royale.I hope they leave all the old Bond films alone,they are classic's and need to be left that way.

    On Bond 22,according to a little web surfing it is going to be out Nov 08,Graig and Dench are already signed.
  • JohmssJohmss Posts: 274MI6 Agent
    Over in MI6's page (sorry no link, but it still there) Wade and Purvis talked about Bond 22, which sadly an shamefully will be released in May 2008, letting go the 2007, probably because in a thousand years, when the number repeats again, they'll gonna use it.

    Craig will use the script, and the script will use Craig's performance to make the film (the dark gritty stuff, with a little of humour), i mean, even Bond 23 could make the Craig Trilogy work. i don't think - can't say believe- Craig in a Moonraker kinda film... know that's something probably nobody would believe.

    The real deal will come with the 007 actor: who the Bloody will be, and what will be his (HIS) trademark (Dalton and Craig rudenes, Moore humour, Brosnan "vulnerability") Will Bond 24 be another Reboot?
  • highhopeshighhopes Posts: 1,358MI6 Agent
    The only thing I'm hoping for is that whatever Bond 22 and beyond turn out to be, that the Eon team approaches them with the same kind of "let's shake things up" creativity that they've shown with CR. Forget the formulaic stories. Bond is a recurring character, that's all the "formula" you need. Make the stories unpredictable. Craig's got the acting chops to take Bond to some pretty interesting places. Eon should take advantage of that.
  • craigisbondcraigisbond Posts: 16MI6 Agent
    I really liked this last Bond, but I hope they inject more 'fun' into the next one. It may not be as true to the novels (which I haven't read, or actually even seen), but it's one of the things that's kept the franchise healthy.

    I just hope the script is excellent; I have no doubt that Craig can deliver on his part. :)
  • EaglemanEagleman Posts: 26MI6 Agent
    I still belive they should bring back Blofeld. They never really killed him off. The ending to Diaminds Are Forever was very poor and although Roger Moore meet him at the begining of For Your Eyes Only, they could bring him back.
  • spectre7spectre7 LondonPosts: 118MI6 Agent
    Eagleman wrote:
    The next film should be a remake of On Her Majesty's Secret Service.
    You won't find much support for that, and rightly so. OHMSS is one of the best of the series. Lazenby's inability to deliver the Connery-style one-liners and awful rear projection during the ski chases are the only major flaws with this great movie.
  • DAWUSSDAWUSS My homepagePosts: 517MI6 Agent
    I do hope they begin with the traditional gunbarrel sequence for Bond 22. And since someone mentioned bringing back Blofeld, (who hasn't been in the series now for what, 30 years), why not bring back that one person who was supposed to be a recurring figure throughout all the 007 films but only showed up in DN and FRWL (her name evades me ATM).

    I also don't think we need to stick with this "beginner Bond" theme established in CR, let him go back to being the experienced killing machine he's been in all the 20 other films.

    And if Bond 22's coming out in '08 it's nice to see they've decided to step up in putting out 007 films again. (And on a side note, the CR DVD should come out July '07 :007) )
  • VirgilVirgil Posts: 99MI6 Agent
    The next one will stick to the forumula , but within the re-boot frame, which is a new twist.
    Sadly, they won´t have Ian Fleming anymore to fell back on, so I expect a much weaker story.
    One thing is for sure: Craig will be there, so the weight of the franchise will rest on his shoulders. And that´s a good thing too.
    I would love to see YOLT, the story of that novel, made into a film with "Shatterhand" as title.
  • jhermanjherman Posts: 59MI6 Agent
    Bond killed Bofeld in the openning to Your eyes only dropping him some 100 feet down a smoke stack,Hardly a beleiveable can live from exp.

    I hope the don't redo OHMSS,That was IMO the worst Bond ever.Lazenby couldn't act and the story line was bad.

    They did to keep with fresh ideas.CR was a great outside the box thinking.
  • MMcDev14MMcDev14 Posts: 4MI6 Agent
    I'd imagine the traditional gun barrel will be back.

    If you understand what I mean, it wouldn't have made sense to have it at the beginning of Casino Royale because Bond wasn't q Double-0 agent yet. But then he gets his second kill and boom, gun barrel sequence.
  • AlecBoy006AlecBoy006 Posts: 26MI6 Agent
    I just hope old era Bond comes back. :'( Good times
  • Mister BiswasMister Biswas TokyoPosts: 78MI6 Agent
    I heard from a friend who is much more of a websurfer than I am that the next film might be "Live and Let Die." When I heard this, I first thought that this was a mistake, since of course there already was a film version. However, giving it more time, I began to feel that a "Live and Let Die" film, sticking close to the novel, would be fabulous. After all, the novel does continue with Bond's obsession with SMERSH the organization (which can be tailored to this "organization that finances terrorists"). Also, a close adaptation of LALD the book would allow character development of the Bond-Leiter relationship (and since Jeffrey Wright is a great actor, and since the chemistry is good between him and Craig, this would be welcome indeed). Plus, the grittiness of the LALD Fleming story would suit those who welcome Craig's tough portrayal. I might also add that, while I am in agreement with those that feel that the producers should not touch films like Goldfinger and Thunderball, they might be well-advised to at least consider redoing OHMSS and YOLT. Don't get me wrong: I love OHMSS as a film and a book. I think, however, that Daniel Craig would do a great, great job. Also, doing a true-to-the-book adaptation of YOLT after OHMSS would give the Bond series a plot arc that would be so welcome. This would require a development of the Blofeld character, updating/revamping the whole "old man with a cat" image into a more tough/sinister/formidable villain that Fleming had originally intended. So, just to tie this whole post together, I would conclude by saying that I would love to see Michael Wilson and Barbara Broccoli consider doing LALD as the next film, followed by OHMSS, and YOLT. Make LALD close to the book but update it the way that CR was updated. Also, include a reference to Blofeld, so that the connect between LALD and OHMSS would be clear. I would add here that, while the Blofeld Book Trilogy is Thunderball-OHMSS-YOLT, I would prefer not to have a Thunderball remake. I feel that the original is good enough and close enough to the book to be left as is. Just have the Blofeld references included in LALD. Perhaps have Bond work progressively up the ladder of baddies. In CR, he dealt with Le Chiffre and Mr. White. In LALD, Mr. Big can be the next villain up on the chain of command. In OHMSS and YOLT, he would deal with Blofeld, the man at the top.
  • DAWUSSDAWUSS My homepagePosts: 517MI6 Agent
    If they were to do that, I would hope they use a different title than that of something that's already taken
  • cdsdsscdsdss JakartaPosts: 144MI6 Agent
    The difficulty of doing a by-the-book adaptation of LALD is that too many of the majot set-pieces of have been done already. Bond being dragged behind the boat, Leiter being fed to a shark, Mr. Big. CR had the virtue of never have been adapted for the screen.

    With past Bond films on constant rotation on Spike and being re-issued on DVD, it's kind of hard to remake them without seeming derivative.
  • highhopeshighhopes Posts: 1,358MI6 Agent
    cdsdss wrote:
    The difficulty of doing a by-the-book adaptation of LALD is that too many of the majot set-pieces of have been done already. Bond being dragged behind the boat, Leiter being fed to a shark, Mr. Big. CR had the virtue of never have been adapted for the screen.

    With past Bond films on constant rotation on Spike and being re-issued on DVD, it's kind of hard to remake them without seeming derivative.

    To me, the remake idea is a lot more tempting right now. That's because having seen CR, it ticks me off that so many of the Fleming titles and stories were scavenged for this or that device or character, or wasted on jokey films that had nothing to do with the novels. You could leave Dr. No, FRWL, Goldfinger, Thunderball, OHMSS alone. Just remake all the others. Actually, they could remake all those as well if they wanted to update them. So what? I don't mind remakes per se, only bad ones. I knew the Fleming CR story backwards and forwards, but I still loved the film. I'd just like to see all 13 original novels filmed with CR's tougher, more realistic sensibility. I'd especially love to see You Only Live Twice, complete with Garden of Death (I can imagine some nice, fantastical sequences there to please the old film-Bond school) and ending with Bond presumed dead, followed by The Man with The Golden Gun complete with brainwashed Bond trying to kill M. I'm sorry, but the movie plots for all but the Connery classics are a jumble in my head, so little did they really matter to the movie. They were just a framework on which to hang a lot of film-Bond silliness. Fun silliness, to be sure, but hey, it ain't "Citizen Kane." I say raid 'em and remake 'em. That way, the people who like that kind of stuff will have theirs, and those who prefer a harder-edged Bond will have theirs. A perfect world.

    I'll tell you one thing: if Eon did CR just to go back to the formula with the same old Bond-is-infallible superhero, I'll be extremely disappointed. I'm not interested in how James Bond became Roger Moore (no offense meant to Roger, I loved his Saint, not his Bond). I want Bond to be more experienced, but remain human, to keep on sometimes making mistakes. He often screws up in the novels and curses himself for it. It makes it more -- not less -- exciting. Rosa Klebb nails him with her shoe-knife in the novel version of FRWL, and nearly kills him. M punishes him by taking away the Baretta and giving him a second-rate assignment: investigating a colleague who ran away with his secretary. That turned into Dr. No.

    Please -- leave the superhuman stuff to guys in capes and masks where it belongs.
  • Moore Not LessMoore Not Less Posts: 1,095MI6 Agent
    highhopes wrote:
    I'm not interested in how James Bond became Roger Moore (no offense meant to Roger, I loved his Saint, not his Bond).

    You speak for yourself. :D

    I'm not interested in any remakes now. It's time to move forward not backward. If the day comes when Eon stops producing the Bond films......perhaps that may be the appropriate time to think about remakes.
  • DAWUSSDAWUSS My homepagePosts: 517MI6 Agent
    highhopes wrote:
    Please -- leave the superhuman stuff to guys in capes and masks where it belongs.

    Yeah, we've seen more than enough invisible cars for a lifetime, and we can use a break from seeing Bond save the world from destruction of some type.
  • the golden gun guythe golden gun guy USAPosts: 102MI6 Agent
    edited November 2006
    The producers should just remake the books that were done badly on screen, but they should make new titles. That's what a lot of us seem to want.
  • highhopeshighhopes Posts: 1,358MI6 Agent
    highhopes wrote:
    I'm not interested in how James Bond became Roger Moore (no offense meant to Roger, I loved his Saint, not his Bond).

    You speak for yourself. :D

    I'm not interested in any remakes now. It's time to move forward not backward. If the day comes when Eon stops producing the Bond films......perhaps that may be the appropriate time to think about remakes.

    I know what you're saying, MNL. So long as they do move the character forward and keep the more serious tone, I'll be happy. I just worry they'll return to the formula. Again, I don't mean any disrespect to Roger (or any of the other Bonds). My problems with earlier Bond films are more a reflection of the scripts than the actors' performances. Moore was great and very Bond-like in the Saint, but didn't have to share the screen with indestructible, eight-foot guys with steel teeth who meet 4-foot-tall blond girls with pigtails and fall in love as the music swells ...
  • Moore Not LessMoore Not Less Posts: 1,095MI6 Agent
    highhopes wrote:
    highhopes wrote:
    I'm not interested in how James Bond became Roger Moore (no offense meant to Roger, I loved his Saint, not his Bond).

    You speak for yourself. :D

    I'm not interested in any remakes now. It's time to move forward not backward. If the day comes when Eon stops producing the Bond films......perhaps that may be the appropriate time to think about remakes.

    I know what you're saying, MNL. So long as they do move the character forward and keep the more serious tone, I'll be happy. I just worry they'll return to the formula. Again, I don't mean any disrespect to Roger (or any of the other Bonds). My problems with earlier Bond films are more a reflection of the scripts than the actors' performances. Moore was great and very Bond-like in the Saint, but didn't have to share the screen with indestructible, eight-foot guys with steel teeth who meet 4-foot-tall blond girls with pigtails and fall in love as the music swells ...

    I guess a lot will depend on the final box office for Casino Royale. Personally, I think it will make a healthy enough profit which should in turn give Sony/Eon the confidence to move forward and continue with the new more serious tone rather than go back to the old formula.

    You had to mention Jaws & Dolly. :p

    I cringe every time at the thought of them. Undoubtedly, the lowest point of Roger's era, and a serious contender for the lowest point of the entire series. However, I do strongly defend Jaws when it comes to TSWLM. He's very good in that film.
  • caractacus pottscaractacus potts Orbital communicator, level 10Posts: 3,906MI6 Agent
    edited November 2006
    they should keep with the source material, but theres no need to remake films that worked, and itd be awkward to repeat plot elements that have been otherwise filmed in recent years

    Flemings LALD would be a perfect story for Craigs Bond
    it was one of Flemings nastiest books, with lots of dark imagery and bodies piled up everywhere, and all the forshadowing to what happens to Leiter, then Bond having to swim with the sharks himself at the end
    unfortunately that sharkthang was already done in Licence to Kill, and the keelhauling was already done in another film...
    I know theyre shameless about repeating plotelements but that sharktank scene in the Dalton film was so notorious I dont think they could repeat it
    Moonraker could be done right, somehow, theyd need to update the Nazi-amongst-us-building-a-V2-rocket-right-outside-London schtick, but they already did that in Die Another Day, however craptastically, so thats out too
    then theres Diamonds Are Forever, but really theres not much in that novel demanding to be filmed, maybe the train plunging into the mineshaft at the end, maybe the "80%" beating Bond recieves

    to find something else really good as yet unfilmed, theyd have to skip all the way ahead to You Only Live Twice, and I seriously hope they do that as pt 3 of Craigs trilogy
    but what to do for pt 2? maybe they need to finally bring in Vivienne Michelle and Bonds Toronto mission, thatd fill up maybe 20 minutes
  • A7ceA7ce Birmingham, EnglandPosts: 655MI6 Agent
    I don't want to see re-makes of scenes and dialogues we've heard and seen before eg feeding to sharks etc.

    I wouldn't mind if DC three films formed part of an overall trilogy but were standalone films in their own right too ( like how the story was split ovet LOTRings).

    SO CR worked, he could sort and out Mr white and Co. in 22 and then get the biggest Grandmasters in 23 be it SMERSH or SPECTRE Stylee.
  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,988Quartermasters
    edited November 2006
    I really like the idea of using Bloody Morgan's treasure to finance terrorism! And having Craig's Bond encounter a bunch of 'gangstas' in NYC could easily be done, given the difference in times, without it turning into an anachronistic 'blacksploitation' schtick as it did in the early '70's. Leave out the 'voodoo' stuff; maybe have Vesper's former lover laundering money through the rap industry...

    :v

    I don't even think it should be called LALD...call it something new, add plenty of new elements...but have Bond tied into a chair, and have somebody bend his pinky finger back...back...back...SNAP!! :o Bond passes out...

    And the subsequent shootout and death in the parking garage...have Bond's finger in a splint for the rest of the picture, as it was in the novel...

    We don't need to re-do 'He disagreed with something that ate him' or the dragging over the coral reef---we don't even need to have another tropical location. The treasure can have already been recovered---sealed up in a high-tech vault somewhere...

    "Follow the money." That's the advice for anyone seeking to unravel a conspiracy; this seems ripe for the next chapter in an arc begun by CR...

    It wouldn't be impossible to do; not by a long shot. Just a bit more 'outside the box' mentality---and since Eon are already there, why not?

    I need an agent :# :D
    Check out my Amazon author page! Mark Loeffelholz
    "I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
    "Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
  • Sir Hillary BraySir Hillary Bray College of ArmsPosts: 2,174MI6 Agent
    No remakes, no remakes, no remakes.

    I don't need strict adherence to Fleming. If there are some interesting set pieces from the novels, yeah let's use them, but retelling old titles seems wrong. Good screenwriters ought to be able to concoct their own good ideas.

    My ideal next movie would start with a traditional gun barrel sequence and pick up exactly where this one left off -- on the steps of Mr. White's villa. Bond would encounter trouble trying to spirit White away, which would form the basis of a rousing PTS. The main film would deal with Bond tackling White's broader organization, using information White has given up under intense questioning.

    I haven't worked out the details yet... ;)
    Hilly...you old devil!
  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,988Quartermasters
    edited November 2006
    I agree...it should start at Mr. White's villa...

    I'm not talking about 'strict adherence to Fleming'---but now, when they seem to be having some success with it, seems (to me) a good time to mine the literary material for unused elements; just brainstorming, that's all.

    No remakes; amen. But there's a lot of good stuff in the books to be had---good, solid, character-grounded building blocks---which will of course need imaginative original writing to flesh out.

    Strict avoidance of Fleming is what I'm worried about :s
    Check out my Amazon author page! Mark Loeffelholz
    "I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
    "Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
  • DAWUSSDAWUSS My homepagePosts: 517MI6 Agent
    Strict avoidance of Fleming is what I'm worried about :s

    Avoidance of Fleming *could* work *IF* it's done correctly, but again, that if is a big if...
  • Johnny DangerJohnny Danger Savannah, GA USAPosts: 60MI6 Agent
    DAWUSS wrote:
    Strict avoidance of Fleming is what I'm worried about :s

    Avoidance of Fleming *could* work *IF* it's done correctly, but again, that if is a big if...

    Bond minus Fleming equals 10 minus 10.
  • Mister BiswasMister Biswas TokyoPosts: 78MI6 Agent
    These comments are really great. And, I really understand the reluctance to accept remaking any of the the old Bond films.
    However, I just wanted to make the case further for LALD as Bond 22.
    SPOILERS FOR THOSE WHO HAVEN'T READ LALD THE NOVEL.








    The novel involves set pieces that have already been filmed. Leiter's near death by shark has been in LTK, and the keel hauling we have seen in FYEO. And of course, the characters of Solitare and Mr. Big, Tee Hee, etc. we have seen in the film LALD. So, I am totally in agreement with those people who feel that to include these scenes and characters in Bond 22 would probably not be a good idea.
    But, hear me out!

    There are other plot elements in LALD the novel that have not been filmed.
    - there is a train that is bombed. Now, I could very well imagine the scriptwriters working with this. For example, a train explosion would tie in very well (almost too well perhaps) with the idea of Bond versus terrorism. Perhaps expanding the train explosion into a terrorist attack might be a way of making this part of LALD relevant.
    - there is a scene where Bond is tortured: this time, his little finger is broken by Tee Hee. Now, we did see a lighter version of this (sans broken finger) in the Roger Moore film. But, to have a broken finger scene in the next movie would probably be the "carpet beater" scene. This is not to say that every Bond film subsequent needs to have a torture scene. But, this kind of scene would give Daniel Craig something to do as an actor. Also, the broken finger might be good because it's a slight connection with the dialogue between Vesper and bond in CR (If all that's left of you is your smile and your little finger, you'd still be more of a man than anybody I know--That's because you know what I can do with my little finger). Now, this is a very tenuous connection, but there might be something there.
    - the LALD book gives a lot of time to the Bond-Leiter relationship. This is something i would love to see. As I said previously, jeffrey wright is an amazing actor and the chemistry between him and Craig is excellent.
    - I have read that CRaig wants to continue exploring the Bond character. the LALD novel would allow him to do this. He would have to react to the news about Leiter. The last sentence in the chapter with the keel hauling has Bond crying for the first time since he was a child. This is an amazing moment for Bond the character, and I would love to see an actor like Craig handle a moment like this.

    Now, instead of adhering strictly to the book, of course there should be changes made. Perhaps it might be worthwile to make changes like the following:
    - Change the main villain. Don't have him be Mr. Big. Maybe have him be this French Algerian boyfriend of Vesper's. Maybe have him be some kind of head of some gang or something, analogous to Mr. Big's organization in LALD. Instead of black Harlem, perhaps Algeria as the backdrop.
    - Don't include the keel-hauling scene or the Leiter/shark scene. In CR the book, there were scenes (like the two men in straw hats bomb scene and the cane/knife from behind attack in the casino scene) that were changed for the film. I suggest that these sorts of changes be made to LALD. Perhaps have Leiter injured in some kind of attack. This would again make the terrorism more of a palpable and real threat in the film.
    - the Title: I personally would love to have the new film, if based on LALD, be called Live and Let Die. I understand, though, the reluctance people might have to this. So, perhaps a title that has not been used, such as Risico or The Portrait of a Lady or Quantum of Solace, and incorporate elements of those short stories into the plot. But, to have LALD as the title would be wonderful.

    Finally, I would consider such a film to be not a "remake" of the original LALD, since the novel is different and distinguishable from the film.
    Don't get me wrong: I love Bond films. It's just that seeing CR made me feel that it's the Bond of the books that is a more interesting character to me than the Bond of the films.

    What do you guys think?
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