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Topic: Bond's reaction to Vesper's death

You know I had a hard time figuring out why Bond had this 'I don't give a damn.' attitude after Vesper died, but earlier today it finally hit me.

Bond didn't say 'The bitch is dead.' because he's an ass, he said it because...pretending that Vesper's death meant nothing to him is a coping mechanism.

Last edited by JimmyBond0129 (18th Aug 2009 03:42)

"I admire your courage, Miss?..." "Trench, Sylvia Trench."

"I admire your luck, Mister?..." "Bond, James Bond."

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Re: Bond's reaction to Vesper's death

That's why QOS is such an important film in the series, shows Bond moving past the need for such a crutch.

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Re: Bond's reaction to Vesper's death

blueman wrote:

That's why QOS is such an important film in the series, shows Bond moving past the need for such a crutch.

Bond's 'cavalier attitude towards life' is a crutch? I thought it was just a part of the  character.

Last edited by JimmyBond0129 (18th Aug 2009 04:08)

"I admire your courage, Miss?..." "Trench, Sylvia Trench."

"I admire your luck, Mister?..." "Bond, James Bond."

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Re: Bond's reaction to Vesper's death

JimmyBond0129 wrote:

Bond didn't say 'The bitch is dead.' because he's an ass, he said it because...pretending that Vesper's death meant nothing to him is a coping mechanism.

ajb007/amazed please don't tell me, that it took you 3 years since CR to find this out! ajb007/embarrassed

President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
-------Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!------
FIRST TO DISCOVER substantial evidence that Chew Mee is in fact not totally nude in the TMWTGG pool scenes!

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Re: Bond's reaction to Vesper's death

Bondtoys wrote:

Please don't tell me, that it took you three years since Casino Royale to find this out

Well, at first I thought Bond said that because he was being an ass but yesterday I had a conversation with my dad about tragic events and he basically said that everybody deals with a tragedy in their own way.

Then it occurred to me that Bond speaking ill of the dead was a coping mechanism.

"I admire your courage, Miss?..." "Trench, Sylvia Trench."

"I admire your luck, Mister?..." "Bond, James Bond."

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Re: Bond's reaction to Vesper's death

JimmyBond0129 wrote:
Bondtoys wrote:

Please don't tell me, that it took you three years since Casino Royale to find this out

Well, at first I thought Bond said that because he was being an ass but yesterday I had a conversation with my dad about tragic events and he basically said that everybody deals with a tragedy in their own way.

Then it occurred to me that Bond speaking ill of the dead was a coping mechanism.

great topic Jimmy,and i agree that it was Bond's way to cope with Vesper's death, to appear like hes over it on the outside and to his peers, but on the inside hes quite obviously torn up about it and it still haunts him,like the scene in QOS when hes drinking the vesper looking at the loveknot and picture and he puts it away once mathis comes over.

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Re: Bond's reaction to Vesper's death

walther p99 wrote:

Great topic Jimmy,and i agree that it was Bond's way to cope with Vesper's death, to appear like he's over it on the outside and to his peers, but on the inside he's quite obviously torn up about it and it still haunts him, like the scene in QOS when he's drinking the vesper looking at the love knot and picture and he puts it away once Mathis comes over.

Speaking of pictures I've seen Quantum about three times now, and the pale woman in the picture doesn't look like Eva Green in my humble opinion.

"I admire your courage, Miss?..." "Trench, Sylvia Trench."

"I admire your luck, Mister?..." "Bond, James Bond."

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Re: Bond's reaction to Vesper's death

Don't people just cope with something that hurts by shrugging it off, or is that just a British thing? You can tell the hurt is in Bond's eyes, he is being flippant to M and keeping his guard up. He was never being an ass, just countering the fact that he was suckered and actually fell for someone who wasn't all they seemed to be. He obviously still loved Vespa... Hence QOS. Otherwise he wouldn't have given a toss for vengence and certainly wouldn't have swiped the photo of Vespa's ex.

Amazon #1 Bestselling Author. If you enjoy crime, espionage, action and fast-moving thrillers follow this link:

http://apbateman.com

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Re: Bond's reaction to Vesper's death

thesecretagent wrote:

Don't people just cope with something that hurts by shrugging it off, or is that just a British thing?

Well, judging by what I've seen some American Marines from Minnesota couldn't brush off the Vietnam War like it was nothing---So maybe it is a British thing.

"I admire your courage, Miss?..." "Trench, Sylvia Trench."

"I admire your luck, Mister?..." "Bond, James Bond."

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Re: Bond's reaction to Vesper's death

JimmyBond0129 wrote:
walther p99 wrote:

Great topic Jimmy,and i agree that it was Bond's way to cope with Vesper's death, to appear like he's over it on the outside and to his peers, but on the inside he's quite obviously torn up about it and it still haunts him, like the scene in QOS when he's drinking the vesper looking at the love knot and picture and he puts it away once Mathis comes over.

Speaking of pictures I've seen Quantum about three times now, and the pale woman in the picture doesn't look like Eva Green in my humble opinion.

its her, i have a copy of the picture.

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Re: Bond's reaction to Vesper's death

Looks like her to me...  ajb007/heart

"Blood & Ashes"...AVAILABLE on Amazon.co.uk: Get 'Jaded': Blood & Ashes: The Debut Oscar Jade Thriller
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM

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Re: Bond's reaction to Vesper's death

walther p99 wrote:

its her, i have a copy of the picture.

Well Eva looks different in that picture, too bad I don't have a copy of it I'd like to compare and contrast.

"I admire your courage, Miss?..." "Trench, Sylvia Trench."

"I admire your luck, Mister?..." "Bond, James Bond."

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Re: Bond's reaction to Vesper's death

JimmyBond0129 wrote:
thesecretagent wrote:

Don't people just cope with something that hurts by shrugging it off, or is that just a British thing?

Well, judging by what I've seen some American Marines from Minnesota couldn't brush off the Vietnam War like it was nothing---So maybe it is a British thing.

You are in odd and I imagine unchartered territory comparing Bond's apparent lack of feelings toward Vesper's death and betrayal to veterans coping with their war experiences.
I have fought in both Kuwait, Iraq and Afghanistan , as well as serving in Bosnia and a whole load of places in between. It ain't pretty and there are some things you simply can't brush off, not then and not ten years later...

Amazon #1 Bestselling Author. If you enjoy crime, espionage, action and fast-moving thrillers follow this link:

http://apbateman.com

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Re: Bond's reaction to Vesper's death

Notice that the photo is folded in half, does this mean that when he stole the photo from M's file that he wanted it as a keepsake or was it just to find her "Ex"

walther p99 wrote:
JimmyBond0129 wrote:
Bondtoys wrote:

Please don't tell me, that it took you three years since Casino Royale to find this out

Well, at first I thought Bond said that because he was being an ass but yesterday I had a conversation with my dad about tragic events and he basically said that everybody deals with a tragedy in their own way.

Then it occurred to me that Bond speaking ill of the dead was a coping mechanism.

great topic Jimmy,and i agree that it was Bond's way to cope with Vesper's death, to appear like hes over it on the outside and to his peers, but on the inside hes quite obviously torn up about it and it still haunts him,like the scene in QOS when hes drinking the vesper looking at the loveknot and picture and he puts it away once mathis comes over.

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Re: Bond's reaction to Vesper's death

JimmyBond0129 wrote:
blueman wrote:

That's why QOS is such an important film in the series, shows Bond moving past the need for such a crutch.

Bond's 'cavalier attitude towards life' is a crutch? I thought it was just a part of the  character.

I think for Bond to effective at his work, he realizes he needs to sort out his feelings about Vesper's death.  What's interesting to me about how QOS is structured, Bond goes about doing that as best as he can, lots of deaths along the way - and M interprets it as Bond off the rails.  He isn't at all in his actions, but he's obviously dwelling on Vesper and seeking his solace.  A unique aspect of the character in the series IMO, and very much appreciated both the intent and Forster pulling it off so well.

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Re: Bond's reaction to Vesper's death

JimmyBond0129 wrote:
Bondtoys wrote:

Please don't tell me, that it took you three years since Casino Royale to find this out

Well, at first I thought Bond said that because he was being an ass but yesterday I had a conversation with my dad about tragic events and he basically said that everybody deals with a tragedy in their own way.

Then it occurred to me that Bond speaking ill of the dead was a coping mechanism.

...and in my limited knowledge of men's minds ( ajb007/amazed ) it's also easier in a time of absolute grief to almost pretend, or box in that feeling, as though it never happened.

He immediately labeled her, while talking to M about double crossing, and grabbed a box (in this case one labeled 'traitor') and put her, and his feelings in it.

However, in the Virgin plane scene, in QoS when Bond is getting drunk on Vesper's (although he pretends to forget what he's drinking - very subtle that ajb007/shifty ) we see that he is still repressing his grief - and wanting to somehow have her.

....and then the scene of Camille and Bond, when they are in the 4x4 after the hotel burning down, and she places her hand on Bond's face and says "I wish I could release you, but your prison is in here". Camille could see that he was still mourning the loss and struggling with his emotions.

It's this detail, and subtly that makes QoS such a great follow on to CR.

She's worth whatever chaos she brings to the table and you know it. ~ Mark Anthony

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Re: Bond's reaction to Vesper's death

Lexi wrote:

...in my limited knowledge of men's minds ( ajb007/amazed ) it's also easier in a time of absolute grief to almost pretend, or box in that feeling, as though it never happened.

He immediately labeled her, while talking to M about double crossing, and grabbed a box (in this case one labeled 'traitor') and put her, and his feelings in it.

However, in the Virgin plane scene, in QoS when Bond is getting drunk on Vesper's (although he pretends to forget what he's drinking - very subtle that ajb007/shifty ) we see that he is still repressing his grief - and wanting to somehow have her.

....and then the scene of Camille and Bond, when they are in the 4x4 after the hotel burning down, and she places her hand on Bond's face and says "I wish I could release you, but your prison is in here". Camille could see that he was still mourning the loss and struggling with his emotions.

It's this detail, and subtly that makes QoS such a great follow on to CR.


With you 100% there, Lex my dear.  And it certainly seems to be something one either sees completely, or not at all  ajb007/crap  there are many such moments in the film where Craig's restraint is palpable.  The scene with M in Siena, and with Mathis at his place in Italy, are also excellent 'character' moments in time.

"Blood & Ashes"...AVAILABLE on Amazon.co.uk: Get 'Jaded': Blood & Ashes: The Debut Oscar Jade Thriller
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM

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Re: Bond's reaction to Vesper's death

I loved that they used that line from the book.